Pontiac GTO

jeffhall76

I just read the Edmunds review of the GTO and really enjoyed the article (as usual). However, I am mystified as to why the article did not mention the Cadillac Catera, the car that shares the same basic platform on which the GTO is based. This Opel Omega (Catera) platform was shortened for the Holden Monaro/GTO. Also, the issue of the high quality materials found on the inside was mentioned in Edmunds own reviews of the Catera back in 2000-2001. The Catera and GTO have distinct non-GM-like cheap, nasty, plasticky materials. If you've never seen the interior of a Catera (00-01 especially), you will see it has nothing in common with typical US GM interiors (thank goodness). Edmunds rightfully praised this in its review a few years ago.

Lastly, the article says the last GM car to not have the name of the company on it (ex: "Pontiac") was the Oldsmobile Aurora. The 2000 and 2001 Catera models do not have the word "Cadillac" written anywhere on the car. So that's 2!

Just small corrections, but I had to voice them. Let's just hope the GTO doesn't have the horrible initial quality that the 1997 and 1998 Catera suffered from.

Jeff
Tampa, FL
2000 Cadillac Catera Sport

goody4

And look what happened to those last two GM cars not to have it's make printed somewhere on the outside of the car.

If the GTO was to fail, it obviously wouldn't be for that reason. But, sending over a ten-year chassis design might be a problem. Who knows?

Certainly, GM could put a little more effort into R&D, and come up with something fresh. However, rebadging models seems to have worked for GM for 40 years, so why fix it if it ain't broke?

qbrozen

Why should it be one or the other?? Why not both good looks and power?

montanafan

Aztek dosen't have Pontiac on it, unless you get the optional aluminum wheels where the name Pontiac is on the center caps.

andys120

Neither in the styling nor the motor department, IMO. I'' reserve judgement on Goat styling until I've actually seen one.

goody4

I'll agree to disagree here. The Marauder looks absolutely menacing. I dig its styling. The thing weighs two-and-a-half tons. The motor does a very good job considering. But, I've read owners are underwhelmed with the car's performance.

Nothing a little aftermarket can't cure.

rctennis3811

if u dont like the GTO's styling, then DONT BUY IT!!! but GM did announce that next year the hoodscoop will be standard

jq3

I agree with qbrozen, why can't the consumer have both, looks and power? Why is it that people accept mediocrity, when they're paying $30,000+ for a vehicle? GM can give both don't be "hood-winked" and "led a stray"!

IMHO, the GTO will not age well. Have you seen the older Grand Prix's? Talk about looking outdated! Some of you accept the styling of the GTO and I totally respect your opinions. But, as for me I'll take ctennis3811's advice, "DON'T BUY IT!!!" For those of you who defend its bland, generic and cheap looks...GO BUY IT!!

graphicguy

I'm not particualrly fond of the looks of the GTO either (in either guise...as the Manaro in Australia or the U.S. GTO). But you can't argue the fact that for $34K you can get a taste of 'vette performance with great seats and suspension bits.

If the General did a total redesign instead of an update of a current design, I doubt they could have hit that price point.

rctennis3811

also, if u dont like the styling, they consider this: the Monaro is built on a design (Holden Commodore/Berlina/Calais) from 1998 in Australia...remember the Catera??? thats what its partially built on!!!!!!!!!!!

b4z

This may quiet all of the people who think the new GTO is too plain looking.

Not all old GTo's were hot.
Very cool car, just not as sporty as we remember them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2444114059&category=7244

revdrluv

I generally like this new GTO. The styling is clean and the performance is outstanding. It's the first Pontiac in decades that I would consider owning. Pontiac is finally getting some models that help it live up to it's stated purpose, to be the sporty side of GM.

Although, I can see how one could wish that Pontiac had showcased a new design direction with it's new halo model. Instead it looks like, well a member of Pontiac's current model range. Which is fine, but a little unexciting.

I guess we will have to wait for the Soltice to see the new direction of Pontiac design.

andys120

the only thing plain about that '68 GTO could be fixed with the addition of a nice set of wheels like the optional Rally II wheels and some big white letter tires( like those worn by my old GT0).

Given those additions (which were more common than not on the old ones I don't think many would consider a '68 GTO coupe plain, then or now.

b4z

Which was the whole point of my post:

The new GTO can have wheel, spoilers, hood scoops, added and look as muscular as any older GTO.

In the same way the Tempest/Lemans had things added to make it look sportier.

qbrozen

first of all, why should that quiet anyone? Who cares what the old one looked like? The old one also weighed a helluva lot more and handled like a steamship. Does that mean the new one should do the same?

2nd of all, that '68 is NOT plain in my book. Just look at that hood. Can you add something like that to the new one? Sure. I could also cram an LS6 into a hyundai and spank this GTO. But why spend that kind of time and money when I could get something else straight from the factory that can do the job? If I gotta look at a new car and think about what I'll do to it BEFORE I even buy it, then its not worth buying, in my opinion.

and 3rdly, I think the complaints about the new one are more to the fact that it looks like a plain old grand prix, not necessarily that it in itself is plain. It just does nothing to distinguish itself from the other Pontiacs on the showfloor.

b4z

I reread my post and can't figure why I am being criticized for it.

Thought you guys would be interested in looking at a low option, plain jane survivor.

I felt the overall tone of my post was positive for both the new and old.

The GTO has been my favorite musclecar since I was 12. Tried to buy my neighbor's '70 Judge in 1983 and my next door neighbor's '72 GTO in 1980.

I sometimes wonder why I continue to participate in these forums.

graphicguy

The history if the GTO was one of taking a plain, mundane car and turning it into a "barn burner".

That's what Pontiac did. They originially took the "plain Jane" LEmans and John DeLorean stuffed a "honkin", high output V8 in it. That was the birth of the muscle car.

Fast forward to today. Pontiac takes a plain Jane, kind of Grand Prix sort of car and stuffs a "honkin" 'vette engine in it.

Same principle....same result!

tomcat630

Totally agree with above. 'Part time' car fans forget that the GTO was not a unique bodied car like the Mustang or the F's.

The 64-73's looked like the rest of the LeMans's, which in fact looked like "any other Pontiac". (not counting the Judges).

qbrozen

again, who cares? why should this follow suit of the old one? If that is the case, then why are they making this one faster and handle better than the old one? If you want history, then you'd better throw about 500 lbs. in the trunk of this new GTO before you go out cruising. Oh, and, by the way, the DIDN'T take a grand prix and stuff a v8 into it. They took a Holden Monaro and made it LOOK like a Grand Prix. So they really aren't following the original equation at all.

b4z - you aren't being "criticized" for it, but if that's how you feel and you want to post your thoughts without any feedback whatsoever, then why DO you participate in forums?? That IS kind of the whole point, is it not?? I thought it was great that you posted that link. I love seeing it, but you also said you thought it should shut people up about the looks of the new one. That ain't gonna happen.

b4z

Point taken.

graphicguy

"If that is the case, then why are they making this one faster and handle better than the old one?"

Because they can!

In all seriousness, I would have loved some styling cues from the "old" Lemans/GTO. But, the whole "retro" thing is a hit or miss gambit (hit = PT Cruiser, miss = Thunderbird) Fact is, from the get go Pontiac (more to the point, Lutz) said they wanted to revive the spirit of the original. I think that's what they did.

They took an old idea, updated it with today's modern design and power advances and brought out a car that, if not everybody's cup of tea, is one of the performance stars in all of "cardom".

Come to think of it, they did the same exact thing they did over 3 decades ago with the original.

andys120

that Pontiac put certain clues into the original GTO to separate it from the Garden variety LeMans
These clues were actually subtle. At a glance
many would think they were looking at a LeMans (which like the Goat could be plain or quite deluxe).

Except for the wing (which BTW I don't like) the
new Goat could use a little more differentiation from the garden variety GPs and Bonnies.

B4z, I misinterpreted the term "plain" in your post. In fact it is correct to say that that was a "plain Jane GTO for it's era.

qbrozen

still on that whole "repeat of history" idea, remember what they were competing with back then. Its just not the same today. The original GTO was a big fish in a small pond. Now the pond is immense. There are so many other choices out there these days that this sort of concept just doesn't win over drivers like it used to. Don't get me wrong, I still think its great. But something as simple as the style could tilt the scales in favor of a G35, RX8, or whatever the flavor of the month is at that point in time.

Modern design? hardly. That design is already 7 model years old (body-wise). That's ancient in terms of today's constantly evolving marketplace and fickle consumers.

garnes

I wonder how many people here have actually seen the car for real.

b4z

That's okay.

i would expect them to start arriving in the dealerships in the next 2 weks.

graphicguy

I have seen one....I saw it at the International Auto Show in Detroit last January. The design cues from the GP are more than subtle. Interior design is a quantum leap ahead of where Pontiac is today, however.

Mr_Shiftright

Old muscle cars generate a LOT of excitement at car shows and auctions. People salivate. I think GM is trying to capitalize on that and if possible re-create a level of excitement like that for their new models. They aren't trying to recreate the past car itself, but rather recreate the past excitement.

andys120

They revived the GTO name for a reason. I'm convinced that in a couple of years there will be more design excitement in the GTO. Let's hope they don't get carried away.

If I were GM's design chief I'd tell my GTO guys to take a lesson from Pininfarina. In 1968 they figured out away to show the Ferrari look in a new way without using cliched "surface excitement.

They were leapfrogging ahead whilst across the ocean GM's guys were copying the '62 Ferrari GTO
(Corvette C3)

revdrluv

Hey, at least Pontiac understyled this one rather than the other way 'round. It could have all those tacky bumps and ridges like other current Pontaic designs. I'll take the former anyday.

I would love to see a four door version. A Pontiac giving the big boy sedans from BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar a run for their money, I love it. Of course that would hurt sales for the CTS-V so it will never happen.

Interesting comparo...

Length:
GTO — 189.8
CTS-V — 194.5

Width:
GTO — 72.5
CTS-V — 70.6

Weight:
GTO — 3725
CTS-V — 3847

Horsepower:
GTO — 350
CTS-V — 400

Torque:
GTO — 365 lbs-ft
CTS-V — 395 lbs-ft

0-60:
GTO — 5.3
CTS-V — 4.6

Price:
GTO — 31k
CTS-V — 49k

Old Omega platform vs. new with same basic powerplant (minus tuning). Seems like GM has done a pretty good job keeping these cars different enough in performance to keep the CTS-V looking like the top dog in the range.

b4z

Saw in C & D that the new 6 series is almost identical to the GTO in lenght weight and 0-60 times.
There are so close that it would be a perfect comparison test.
Oh yeah, the BMW is $70,000!!