Pontiac GTO

rctennis3811

i dont see why everyone is "baggin" on the new GTO, i think its a great compromise between performance, luxury, AND styling..so please, stop the hatin!

orwoody

Personally I can't wait to drive a new GTO. Having grown up in the days of muscle cars, they had great straight line acceleration, but not so good handling. I've always loved the "sleeper" look, like the 1970-72 Buick Gran Sport.... a little bit of a parallel to the old GTO. Based on what I've read the price is not too out of line for what one gets with the new GTO.
I'm really looking forward to the feel of those seats... a real 2 + 2

deadphoenix

Ive done my research on the car and I can see that, yes this goat can perform and yes it has a bit of luxury. BUT I have to speak my mind on the styling.... Pontiac did not follow in GTO tradition. The original goat, evolved from a tempest, had a character that made it stand out from the other muscle cars of the day... I gotta ask now, when driving past this goat on the highway would you recognize it or mistake it for an acura integra, a grand prix... perhaps a new dodge stratus or neon srt??? THe fact is that Pontiac followed suit with the current trend of styling and figured that it didnt matter. Id hate to say it but FORD IS DOING IT RIGHT. WHen it comes to retro styling anyways. The T-Bird looks like an old Tbird and the new mustand to come out looks like a 60's stang. this GTO is not what it should be, it doesnt resemble its heritage. Pontiac should have taken the monte carlo from the chevy division and molded it to look like a 67 Goat with vertical head lights, the hood scoop and a sloped rear end with the goat tail lights. then pontiac would have something to sell. But for now, we'll have a bunch of american integras owning the street calling themselves muscle cars and only wishing that they could hold as much character and heritage as the original goat. GIVE ME A 67 ANYDAY!

qbrozen

rev - you have a very good point there about not making it look like some of the hideous pontiacs of recent years.

rctennis3811 - Not sure many folks here "hate" it. I think its more to the point of not loving it. Its just not the kind of car that makes me think "wow! I GOTTA have that!!"

b4z - i was just reading about the 6 in autoweek. somebody already borrowed it in my office, though, so this is from memory... but they mentioned how, to get it down to that weight, the frame is aluminum and the hood and trunk are plastic! Really doesn't give me much confidence. Ok, so even if the 6 stands up in a crash, can you imagine the repair bill?? "sorry, sir, we can't rework the body, we need to buy a whole new one." Yikes!

deadphoenix - not everyone likes new cars with retro style.

b4z

So what you are saying is that pontiac should have taken a FWD Monte Carlo(or GP for that matter) with a 3.8L V6 and called it a GTO?

Ford is hardly doing it right. The Thunderbird has been canceled due to poor sales.

b4z

I saw it in autoweek too, not c & D.
Length is 190 inches weight is 3725lbs and 0-60 is 5.5 secs with 325 hp.

qbrozen

amazing that it still weighs that much considering what i mentioned before. where they heck do they put it all?

graphicguy

Good point....no one hates the styling. Fact is, no one really loves it either...kind of automotive styling "limbo".

As a previous owner of a '67 GTO (spent every dime I had at the time I bought it used), you wouldn't have been able to tell it from a run of the mill Lemans if it weren't for the GTO emblems and the hood scoop.

I would have liked a bit of "retro" in the new GTO. Maybe some "slotted" rear lights (like in the '66 GTO) or the big dual "ovoid" grill treatment like in the '67. Maybe even the flat real wood dash like they originally had.

retro styling is a tough nut in many cases. As mentioned before, Ford "could have" had a hit with the Thunderbird. In fairness to the Thunderbird, I think the styling was OK. Where Ford got into trouble was with its driving dynamics and the hit and miss interior. I wanted to buy one. Having a test drive, it really didn't feel very sporty. Plus, it was a little "weak kneed" in the performance dept.

That's something that won't plague the GTO from what I read.

As Q pointed out, there are a bunch of good cars that are playing in that space today like the 350Z, RX8, G35c, etc. They are all roughly in the same price range, too. That wasn't the case when the original GTO prowled the streets.

I do want to see the GTO succeed. Only time will tell.....

b4z

Dealers have a way of killing new car launches with their "market adjustments".
They can ask whatever they want but they are sacrificing long term business relationships for short term gain.

Thunderbird: $4000 market adjustment.
Status: production ending.

Ford Focus SVT: $3995 market adjustment.
status: production ending.

Hope Pontiac dealers can get the dollar signs out of their eyes and don't kill the goat that laid the golden egg.

white6

There are plenty of dealers that have agreed to sell at MSRP and no more. That said, I'm sure that there will be a plethora of Pontiac dealers with their $5,000 ADP (Additional Dealer Profit) mark-up stickers ready and waiting.
I still don't really get the Grand Prix comparison... the only thing that even remotely resembles Grand Prix is the front grill shape. And that's got to be there, since it's a Pontiac trademark! Truth is, that's the only significant styling difference between the GTO and the Monaro. I hardly think the Aussies styled their Monaro to look like a Pontiac Grand Prix. Also, the 2004 Monaro is only three model years old. I know the chassis started life as the Omega/Catera, but in this highly updated incarnation has few parts that have not been replaced or altered.

qbrozen

you mean you don't see the striking similarities here? look at the a-pillars, look at the shapes and sizes of the side windows and windshield, look at the shape of the fenders, look at the shape of the hood, etc., etc.

crispiegee

Some thoughts to consider:

Pontiac is in business to sell cars and make money for shareholders, not help us visit memory lane. The stylists could have never pleased the traditionalists' tastes: Some would want '64 styling cues, while others would want '69 traits. And while the old GTOs are dandy, I defy anyone to adapt their styling to a modern design.

A retro GTO would have generated lots of initial interest, but few buyers over the long run. The Mustang is entirely different in this regard, as it had a shape that adapts well to modern interpretation.

Speaking of modern, the Monaro, absent the GTO's rear wing, has the understated elegance of a BMW 3-series. This is what is going to attract new buyers like me: CLEAN, MODERN DESIGN and serious performance, not garish gee gaws.

Pontiac's whole Disco image came about because of tasteless wings, scoops and spoilers. I don't be seen in a car that makes me look like some kind of infantile show-off. I'd rather have the American version of a European GT: Attractive, fast, capable and comfortable. No glitz.

I will probably order in the Spring, although I wish it came in Holden's charcoal grey.

Mr_Shiftright

The problem with "retro" is that you can't go anywhere with it. What cha' gonna do, make the car look older every year?

revdrluv

What a minute... we are criticizing Pontiac for making the new GTO look like a Pontiac?!? Would it make any sense if it didn't?

I can see, like I said before, Pontiac showcasing a new design direction with this new halo model, but not throwing out what they have going now all together.

Sure, I would like a little more visual excitement from this performance icon. But I would still expect it to look like it fits into the Pontiac range. Again, I am just happy they didn't take the Monaro, slap some body ridges, an outlandish wing and fender flares on it and call it a Pontiac (cause that would have fit too).

crispiegee

With regard to RCTENNIS assertion that the GTO is already out-dated because it is "partially built on the Commadore/Catera platform," I would respond with the following:

Just because a platform is NEW doesn't make it GOOD, and just because it came from 1998 doesn't make it "outdated." Simple-minded consumers believe that new is always better, but consider that Mercedes used the same SL platform from '87 to '03... it was a well designed car!

Assuming you know what goes into building a chassis, please enlighten us to what you would update on the GTO's chassis. My guess is that you read in a car magazine that it traces its design to a 1998 design, so that makes it outdated.

Auto journalists are some of the most brain washed people out there. Twenty years ago they said FWD was the height of modern engineering and V8s and RWD were throwbacks. Now they say RWD is the way to go. They have also touted the greatness of turbos, MacPherson struts and unit body construction -- Further evidence that auto design is as trendy as any fashion show.

From what I've seen of the GTO specs, as well as reviews of its ride and handling, it makes no apologies for it chassis modernity. And with regard to styling, the Europeans change very infrequently, yet their cars always look great. That the Holden has been around for two years does not disuade me from buying it.

But if the term "re-engineered" tickles your fancy, I hear the new Kia cars got a face lift, and they're supposed to be just greaaaat....

rctennis3811

i said the platform was outdated because some people didn't like the styling of the car, which is why i had to point out the fact that the GTO is built on a car produced in 1998 in Australia...BUT, i didnt say that the handling was bad, I am all for the GTO

qbrozen

What a minute... we are criticizing Pontiac for making the new GTO look like a Pontiac?!?

yup, sure am. I don't find any new pontiac attractive. That's not to say the GTO is UGLY, it just ain't pretty. When I look at it I have about the same reaction as looking at an Accord coupe: "eh"
its just kinda... there.

crispiegee

Hey RCTennis,

Sorry about being so vitriolic. All the reactionaries have me fired up today -- They wish it was still 1967 and we still wrote on Smith-Corona typewriters. I wish cars were still body-on-frame, but I guess that ship has sailed!

On the discussion of styling, there are a few things I don't care for (the Pontiac grille, for one -- at least the could have made it inset for a bit of texture), but overall, the goodness of the car makes it worthwhile for me. Just wish they would have offered charcoal grey, DARK blue or DARK red. Decisions, decisions.

P.S. I'm going to the Detroit Autoshow to see if they unveil the Mustang. I will make my decision then whether to go Mustang or Goat. Right now, I'm leaning heavily GTO, based on interior quality, room and the 5.7 liter stump-puller.

andys120

offer a dark metallic (Navy) blue. It's very much the fashion color
du jour as well as the best color the Monaro is offered in (of the Aussie pix I've seen). Can you tell it's long been a favorite car color of mine.

Charcoal grey was last big in the 80s and seems to be making a comeback as well, another good-looking color that would be a natural on the new Goat IMO, which seems to wear dark colors better than the bright red, yellow or silver it's often photographed in. Your mileage may differ.

yzfr1n

It was a smart move on GM's part to bring in only 18000 cars this year, while dealers will say (at least in the North East) they have deposits on all but a few of their allotted GTO's for the year the fact of the matter is that the car appeals to a specific crowd (myself included). No one should fall for the dealer gimmicks and pay a penny more than 32K for this car.

It's conservative shape should age well (comparable to BMW 330), it's over all performance is good, build quality will be the best we have seen from Pontiac and most of GM.

But consider this:

1)One look at the trunk and people are going to walk away:
While enthusiasts will put up with it or those who will keep it only as a second car won't care, for all those who actually want to "use" the GTO forget it. Figure you can pack almost as much in an S2000.

2)Gas Guzzler Tax:
Just the fact that you have to pay the tax tells you the car uses large quantities of premium only.

3)Few options:
The car has so few options, while what options it has are standard let's not forget it's price.

4)Brand name not so hot in that price range:
Also have to figure that most people who can afford to put a car in that price range in their garage would be ashamed of showing their keys (a red arrow with a star in it).

5)GTO "cult" is not that strong:
While the Mustang has a large following, the new GTO does not and will not. The GTO has been gone for too long to provide satisfaction to it's older fans. The new GTO is not loyal to what the GTO used to be (thank God), this year's car is modern and is what it should be but no one is going to be buying it just because it has the letters GTO on it.

Taking everything into consideration the new GTO is a good, maybe even great car but it's still a Pontiac. To all those who will go out and pay sticker price (Testosterone pumped Grads who know how to drive hard and fast, and gentlemen who want the latest sports car), heed my warning, no, just watch what will happen to the price of this car in just one year. Maybe GM already took this into consideration by planning on selling this car for only three years on our shores.

All that being said I will be one of the first to test drive the new GTO, but like most people thinking about a Pontiac this will be a big investment and will have to think long and hard if I really want this car which will depreciate drastically over the next three years.

andys120

the GTO will succeed in selling the 18k allotted but I doubt that big markups will last that long.
There's plenty of competition for people in the market for a sporty 2-door with 4 seats.

A longer option list, bigger trunk and keener styling will come eventually if the car meets sales goals w/o heavy discounting.

b4z

dark blue, that would be great.
Also would like to see what the car looks like with a set of 18" wheels with 5 spokes and 275 section tires.
And a pair of '68-70 style twin hood scoops on the small side. Not like what they put on the most recent WS6 Pontiac.

andys120

but I've heard nothing definite on production while GM has already introduced a successor to the Vauxhall/Opel Speedster in Europe based on the same architecture.

Will we ever get one?

jq3

Thanks, qbrozen, for posting pictures of the Grand Prix and the '04 GTO. You'd have to be half blind or totally blind not to see the distinct similarities. Pontiac should have and could have done better, end of story!

Like I've said before the engine is fine, but how anyone could be pleased with the body styling is beyond me. I'll guarantee you all that it will start out with brisk sales for about 2 months and fall flat from there. Pontiac will end production in 1.5 - 3 years due to slow sales. The car SIMPLY is not "eye-candy"! Muscle cars MUST excite the visual senses this day and age, competition is fierce!

Everyone that has debated this the past week and half scroll back to post #692. Just look at it for 5 minutes and then can you honestly post that the '04 GTO really has a future? Will people in 20 years be eager to collect one? How do you think it will age? What about the GTO has character and originality?

b4z

People buy small asian sourced cars and they are not particulary good looking.
People will buy the GTO for build quality and the engine.
The GTO will be bulit in America in '07 anyway.
GTo doesn't look like the current GP. It looks closer to the last generation GP.
And of course their is a resemblence. It comes from the same family!!

A very easy fix for the front end would be to inset the grille 1" from the surrounding bumper cover.

white6

od0I Jjmfop- Ou00e9dndl 9sn0jnclcj....
Sorry, that's how us blind people type.

orwoody

You know, the new GTO will blend well, which isn't all bad when it can go fast.... you never know when you might have to blend into traffic when a trooper comes by.

revdrluv

Come on now!!!! This car has a freakin 5.7 liter stompin' V8 and it cost just 30k. That alone would be enough for most people to buy one. Truth be told a car like this is better suited to our long straight roads than the RX-8 or any other import performance car right now.

I think all those F-bod fans who have been crying in their beers will take to the GTO with gusto. All the people who dislike having to rev an engine to get power would choose this car over most of the competition.

Marketing is going to be what makes or breaks this car. Sure us car fanatics know about it, but the average joe hasn't a clue that the fastest GTO ever is about to be released. If GM was smart they would give this car extra exposure and call their "Pontiac" NASCAR race car a GTO. Would make more sense than calling it by the name of a FWD sedan. They need to spend a ton of money on television spots and print ads. There should be product link ups, special give aways, sponsered events etc... Pontiac needs this car to be known and appreciated.

rctennis3811

omg!!! please, everyone, stop posting that the GTO looks bad..ok, well thats your opinion and im fine with that..but honestly, I think that people WILL BUY the GTO because of its price tag, nice interior, awesome V8, and soon-to-come abundance of aftermarket accessories. just see how you can take a plain ole Joe car like the GTO and turn it into a racing monster with hood scoops nicer wheels, etc. so it should sell!

b4z

Let's say that the GTO doesn't sell.

That would means we get a $4000 rebate and $3500 off from the dealer.

So we get the car for $26,000. Seems like a bargain to me.

About what the $31,500 Impala SS is going for with it's $3500 rebate and pricing close to invoice.