Pontiac GTO

ruski

I guess you know your WHOes, I mean GTOes.

imonty

It will be a Chevy not is a Chevy. It will also be a Vauxhaul too. Exports to Saudi haven't started yet or if they have it was certainly after the GTO so it is the Chev that has been around the block not the Pontiac. Badge engineering has been around for years. How many Bentleys are there that weren't Rollers. GM are no different. Holdens have been sold as Chevs in South Africa since the 70's. The Commodore has been sold in Saudi as a Chev Lumina for a few years now. Now that GM has bought into Daewo the Australian Statesman will probably turn as as a Daewo in Korea and perhaps China. It is the way the world is now. The 70's were 30 years ago fellas.

mydogflees

Why doesn't Edmunds list the 6-speed version as a style for the GTO?

On another note, I really enjoy these forums. It's nice to be able to come here to satiate my car knowledge craving when I don't have time to research everything myself (even when I'm not in the market for a car!).

ezrapon

I just read the MSN auto section review of the GTO. The reviewer mentioned that the platform is a decade old. If this is true, the wool has been pulled over our eyes. It is strictly a rebadge of old hardware. No XM or ON Star... the Aussies have no XM or onstar sattelites, why would they put useles technology in there cars. I guess it would be too much trouble to rebuild the center stack with the GM audio. I guess that's a good thing depending on how you look at it. I do believe that the 400+ hp version is on the horizon. This will elevate it out of mediocrity and force me into the show room. I'll be waiting.

midwesttrader

The majority of GM's car platforms are old news. They've been developing and selling trucks and SUVs at the expense of cars for years. I understand there's a larger profit in that market segment.

ezrapon - the story goes they were in a hurry to get the car to market and didn't have the time to do any additional development on the Monaro design other than the gas tank and exhaust system. We'll have to see what the '05 looks like. I predict a late release.

I've yet to see a single GTO on the street here in St Louis.

bottgers

If gas prices continue their spiraling trend, as it looks like they will, the auto manufacturers had better start concentrating more on fuel efficient vehicles rather than gas guzzling SUV's. People aren't going to take too kindly to having to plop down a $100 bill every time they need to fill up.

mnmatches

Its like looking at a bloated civic... Where's the muscular stance? What about dual exhaust? I was excited about seeing what it was all about because I heard a lot about it but didn't actually see it until just now. What a disappointment.

I'd agree that the interior and exterior colors are a little overpowering... its like they are afraid that they won't be able to attract interest with careful design and elegance so they attempt to catch the eye using nauseating colors.

crispiegee

Geez!

One guy says the GTO is ugly because it's plain, another complains that it is too gaudy. There's no pleasing you people!

The only thing I wish they had changed are the wheels (which most people think are ugly) and the big wing (ducktail spoiler would look better).

Okay, come to think of it, the Pontiac grille is a bit ugly too, and it needs some flare to the wheel arch. But this is a GREAT car, and we should be happy that we even have a rear-drive, V8 Pontiac to drive.

I'd like to see GM import the pure, unadulterated HSV GTO. But in any case, I think this car has the smooth, unfussy lines of a European coupe.

ramped

at EPCOT on Friday. Hands down perhaps the best interior I've ever seen on a GM car, and surprisingly good leg room in the back.

Can't really say much about driving dynamics because the course is painfully short, but that V-8 sounds sooooooo nice when it's revved. I probably side with the camp that thinks the car is a little too conservatively styled, but it must be a blast to drive when the road ahead is open. Probably the perfect car to use for a cruise to Montana with a buddy.

v8lincolnguy

I think we are forgetting the point of the GTO. 0-60 in the low 5s, a well balanced RWD chassis and a bit of style for a low 30s price tag. Find me a another V8 powered coupe that fits that bill. Yes, the GTO lacks a few features that I would like, but the performance more than makes up for it.

ezrapon

I'll spot a red Intrigue or Alero and think I have a GTO sighting, but the only GTO I see a lot of is the red one that appears to be a monument at the local dealer. It has been appearing on their tv adds for about 3 months. Thankfully they keep the purple one on the showroom floor so I don't have to see it everyday. One thing not to lose sight of is, this is not an American or GM car... it is Australian. Not your father's Oldsmobile. I passed a black WS6 T/A convertible today. Top down, it looked real sharp. I nice one could be had for around 2K. Pretty much the same performance, but all American. Other than the fuel tank and exhaust, the only thing pontiac has contributed to this is an ad campaign and about 5 bucks worth of emblems. Give us the high performance Holden and sell it at pontiac dealers. The 400 hp version will remove a lot of the negatives... please lose the spoiler and single exhaust outlet.

tom2265

I guess the GTO must truly be selling poorly given all the talk about what it looks like v. the driving experience. If you drive it and still think it's missing something, fine, let's discuss it because maybe there are ideas out there to make it better. But if you just want to complain about how its looks fail you, then please re-think your thinking since you're really (still) missing the point. My silver over black 6-speed is one example of about 18000 challenges GM has this year to competitors: My car can beat your car.

Who owns the car, or at least taken more than a cursory test drive? Could we hear from you?

montanafan

The $36,500 WSG Convertible(2002) was built in Canada (GM), so it is as un-American(GM) as the Australian(GM)built GTO

ezrapon

yes the WS6 was built in Canada, but it was designed, developed, and rolled out in America. It's roots and heritage from 1967 all come from America. The GTO has absolutely no American connection. If the looks (subjective) were pleasing to all, the anual allotment would be gone or at least spoken for by now. As for the driving experience, it speaks for itself. The only thing that kept me from stepping to the plate was the GM tradition of bringing out a better product on the 2nd try. Just look at the 1st Fiero vs the last Fiero... a classic example.

v8lincolnguy

The GTO may not be a true "American" car, but I think it demonstrates that those Aussies have more in common with us than we often think when it comes to cars:)

vcjumper

How much better you can get for the price they are asking.. Though availability of a moonroof is an obvious one and a dual exhaust suits the car.
The G35 coupe is more refined yes, but I prefer the GTO interior and powertrain. The exhaust note is no contest.

wally112pac

Hey guys.

I'm in my early 20's and interested in buying a 2005 GTO. (depending on the price)

I'm lovin the 2004 but i don't want to buy a pre owned car and i'll have the cash in about a year.

Does anyone have a link to some pics of the 2005 GTO?

Also what would i do about buying one? Go to my nearest GM dealer and inquire about them?

I went to http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/pontiac/pontiac.html and they don't have the GTO listed in their current models section. This might be a stupid question but is the GTO available in Canada? If the starting price in the States is 31 grand i'm guessin it will be around 36-37 in Canada.

Thanks in advance.

vcjumper

The GTO is not available in Canada.

wally112pac

How would i get one?

bigdaddycoats

Can you bring American cars to Cananda? If not, I don't know how you would do it.

ezrapon

I stopped at Behlmann Pontiac yesterday to see the new GPX. They had a GTO in every color except white and a new blue color (not released yet.) I believe I counted 9! As I'm kind of in a hurry to get out of my Denali (gas prices)I asked if they were cutting GTO sticker prices yet, he said no and cited one going for 52 K on ebay... yeah right. The GXP was tickling the 40K mark and is grossly under powered so the GTO is still in my ballpark. Saw a new Chrysler 300 hemi. Unfortunately it was used in a ambush of a st louis police crusier... what a great kick off.

white6

"The GTO has absolutely no American connection."
Except, of course, for the engine and transmission, which is a good old LS1 V-8 and 6-speed (or 4L65E auto) designed and built in the U.S. Also, Holden is a subsidiary of G.M., and is therefore owned by General Motors.

ezrapon

you are correct. Without the GM supplied Ls1 engine, most of us would never have heard of Holden and the GTO nameplate would still be in the history book. The family dog did something nasty in the back of my car today. If it doesn't start to smell better, that black GTO with the chrome rims at the dealership might be in my garage sooner than later.

imonty

Funny - the engine seems to have come from the US.

wally112pac

Is there a reason why?

I heard it didn't pass a bumper test. I thought Canada did pretty much the same tests as the States?

montanafan

Sure, blame it on the dog. What is the new blue color? I have seen both the Impulse and Barbados blues that the car is listed in.

wally112pac

I did some searching and found this out

""Help is at hand." This was the recent promise from a senior GM product executive after being asked (yet again) why his company still hasn't engineered the more resilient 8 km/h bumpers needed to make the U.S.-market Pontiac GTO legal in Canada.

The GTO is adapted from GM Australia's Holden Monaro.

Insiders say it was launched in the U.S. so hastily that there wasn't time to engineer a better bumper for Canada. So does this mean we can hope the GTO will finally make its Canadian debut at February's Canadian International AutoShow in Toronto? We'll keep our fingers crossed."

Anyone know if this will be fixed in time for the 2005 GTO? I hope so.

midwesttrader

Behlmann is feeding you a line (or very old news).

I just checked recent eBay auctions and yes, there still are some suckers bidding on rights to buy. They appear to be east coast cars and the bids were $10 and $15K over sticker. But the majority of the bids on cars available now are still falling in the $26 to $29K range with few if any moving.

Stay away from Chryslers; a big target for both car thieves and cops in our town.

mnmatches

midwesttrader - how do car thieves steal a car that needs a chip to run? Honda Accords are still the most stolen car in America, but that's for models that don't have the chipped keys....

ruski

why are Chryslers targets for cops?

bxd20

There are a couple web sites specifically devoted to this GTO that might help you all out. That said...

There were always two blues, Impulse Blue (more of a deep blue/royal blue) and Barbados Blue (lighter, hint of green/grey to it). No other ones have been announced.
There is no white option.

05 model will not hit dealers till late fall, think November. Definite changes are: hood scoops, exhaust exits from both sides. Highly likely are: moonroof, more HP, some change (perhaps delete option) of the spoiler, bumper upgrades to meet Canadian standards. Maybe's: optional HID lights, chromed and/or 18" wheels, the LS2 engine from the new Corvette, improved seat mechanisms.

Remember, the last year for this Australian made GTO will be model year '06, so GM is not likely to make sweeping changes. I would put my bet on a power increase to 375hp, 18" wheels, moonroof, exhaust, and spoiler for next year. The 05 pricing is a matter of great debate, as the Aus dollar continues to strengthen against the American. We'll probably see a slight price increase unless the great weather we're now finally getting doesn't stimulate the market to buy.

Brian

sportgto

I would say 405 hp is closer to what the '05 will have.

Which sites do you find have the best information Brian?

midwesttrader

I don't know how they do it I'm not a car thief.

I do know that the Chrysler 300, and Dodge Intrepid make the news here almost daily as being stolen and then the culprits running from or trying to run over the police to get away. That tends to get the cops attention.

Check out Insurance Institute for Highway Safety auto theft data for '99-'01. Two Chryslers and one Dodge in the top ten.

ruski - see above

bxd20

You have to maintain a pecking order within GM. The CTS-V was introduced in '04 with 400hp, most likely not to overpower the 405hp Corvette Z06. It returns in '05 with the same 400hp. The new Corvette also gets introduced with 400hp. I do not think GM is willing to put these two $50k cars on an equal plane as the GTO at $33k. More than 350hp but less than 400hp in my opinion.

I find knowledgeable people at newagegeto and ls1gto. Lots of banter, but occasionally a morsel of great wisdom. :-)

Brian

ezrapon

The same saleman who told me of the 3rd blue color said he saw one hit 52K on ebay. I've seen stranger things. Wouldn't you hate to be the chump who paid 52K? Behlman does seem to have a whole lot of these cars I counted 7 he said 9. The one that has aftermarket chrome wheels really stands out. It seems one common thread here and in the car rags is the controversial (bland) styling and the exceptional performance. Although, the motor trend review of the hemi 300 has very...very close performance numbers. If only I could get past the 60"s Russian limo look. I saw a purple PT cruiser rag top today. It looked like an Easter basket going down the road. Pontiac could have done worse.

tom2265

"It looked like an Easter Basket going down the road"

Funny!

bxd20

A local dealer had the stock wheels chromed and installed on a black on black GTO. Sitting in the showroom, the car looks 5x better now, even at the same size. It is very obvious that the easiest upgrade for Pontiac is to put together an 18" wheel package that's at least polished and maybe chromed. The moonroof is also a no brainer as the Holden's finally get it as an option for '05, that's been confirmed. Hood has been confirmed with scoops. I hope they do something with that spoiler as well, I'd like to see a more integrated looking spoiler, and a delete option.

Brian

white6

Man, this car is short on headroom already; where are they finding room for a moonroof? Maybe the redesigned seats allow more headroom and, therefore, the moonroof. I was so glad I didn't pre-order the first time I sat in a new GTO; I'm 6-3 and could not live with the total lack of headroom and having to literally duck my head to get in and out. A car this size shouldn't require that!

bottgers

....Hondas and Toyotas are built here in the states, and the big 3 domestic companies farm out the building of their vehicles to foriegn countries.

montanafan

You will probably find that Toyota and Honda have plants in the same countries that GM does. In fact Toyota builds over 100,000 cars in Australia where the GTO is built for the United States.

sportgto

I've heard the '04 GTO was really rated at 368 hp, but only advertised at 350 hp to not top the standard Vette engine at 350 hp. Anyone else heard this?

imonty

Sunroof has been an option on all series 2 Monaros. Don't know why Pontiac didn't get them -marketing musn't of thought the extra expense was saleable. We get 2 options for wheels - five spoke mags (polished) or seven (matt). HSV have different options still. Suggest you look at the Holden site and the HSV site and see the differences.

bxd20

People that have dyno'd their GTO's are finding that the claimed flywheel HP is pretty accurate @ 350hp. Maybe a little low but I don't think 18hp low.

Kirstie_H

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midwesttrader

Unless sales of this car pick-up dramatically over the next 3 or 4 months they're bound to happen.

As a point of reference, Chevy is now offering $2K back or 2.9% on '04 Corvettes. Vette sales appear to be off about 15% compared to last year at this time. I saw an ad by a local dealer offering an '04 with a $52K sticker for $41K!

Apparently selling a GM sports car these days is pretty tough. Is the economy that bad?

qbrozen

in reference to the drop in vette sales, that is very common for all vehicles when a redesigned version is on the horizon.

bxd20

is on its way out, next generation will be here in a few months.

GTO is brand new. Don't expect $2000 rebates ever. Perhaps if sales are soft come summer we will see $500 and some reduced financing, but again I doubt 0.0%.

gobucksbeatmi

Interesting that a "used" '04 blk/blk/A4 GTO with just over 1,400 miles sold for $24,750 on E-Bay yesterday (4/21/04). Don't know where the car was garaged or why the owner decided to sell so quickly. Someone likely got a very nice buy, and some owner ate a heck of a lot of depreciation. <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=2474631658>

qbrozen

I'd be willing to bet the transaction doesn't take place in the real world.

sportgto

are the supposed '05 hood scoops going to hurt it's sales, or improve them? I will still most likely buy an '05, but am not looking forward to the scoops. I am however looking forward to the dual exhaust on both sides, the 18" wheels, and the 6.0L 400 hp engine.

The stereo needs some work, by far not the worst I've heard, but not as good as most new cars today, not even as good as most full size pickups.