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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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If the car cannot be bought at the net advertised price, I would be looking elsewhere. Would you want to deal with a dealer who dealt in that way? In sales, service or warranty?
http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/pdf/2004Warranty.pdf
Although some have "AS IS" on the window sticker, which means whatever scraps, scratches, wear/tear are found on it, cannot be corrected. Although still covered under the manufacturer's warranty.
As always, CAVEAT EMPTOR--let the buyer beware.
(Now, do you think I would be COMPLETELY nuts to trade in a year old Five Hundred this fall for a Fusion? )
Although I'm in sort of a similar situation. My previous LS had over 125K miles and there was no other vehicle that grabbed my attention.... and while the LS never gave me any problems during my painful reign, I had the itch of buying something new. Obviously knowing the Mustang was around the corner, I tried to hold off a bit so I could purchase that instead. But I average 40K miles yearly, therefore I wouldn't be able to hold off that long. So I purchased another LS.
Summer 05 I will have to reassess the situation since I'll be hitting the 70K mark at that time.
Although what truely "sucks", is knowing WHATS in the pipeline in the future. I think,
"Hmm I could get a Mustang, but there's ____ coming out a few months later..Oh but wait, there's _____ which will have AWD coming out a few months later after that...Hmmm no, I could wait a few months after that, when ____ comes out with a V8".... Then before you know it, your looking 2 years into the future, and still left in square one.
I say you wait till you test drive the Fusion before pondering the thought too much. Not sure what your likes/dislikes are over a vehicle, but the Fusion will feel a bit more european in it's driving dynamics, a bit more boy-racer like, in a smaller package than the 500. Naturally, sharing many of the traits that has caught the attention of current 500 owner's.
The Lincoln Zephyr will offer the same package, but with different driving dynamics (suspension tailored for a more sophisticated, cushiness-not boatlike in any way though).
The Fusion is definately much more fun to toss around, from the F, M, Z trio.
The UK Mondeo has 3 Diesel options, including
2.0 Duratorq TDCi Diesel 96 kW (130 PS) at 3500 min-1 (rpm) 330 / 350* Nm at 1800 min-1 (rpm)
2.2 Duratorq TDCi Diesel 114 kW (155 PS) at 3500 min-1 (rpm) 360 / 400* Nm at 1800 min-1 (rpm)
Since these are only 2.o and 2.2L in size, getting them to fit would not be a problem (Some refitting of parts would be needed). Imagine the increased torque at low rpm would do for the performance (and even better MPG to boot!).
Anyone able to be UK to US conversions of power and torque?
Just rather have a discussion of bringing a diesel option to the 500 (I'd buy one if available).
You can do an online search for "Online Measurement conversion", and a few sites will be displayed where you can translate those numbers into HP/TQ.
Ford has placed together a Diesel team, to analyze what applications, and possibilities are available for Diesel in the N.A. market. Meta One concept hints at what's possible, provided more refined gasoline is phased in so manufacturer's can introduce such vehicles.
Ford of Europe's 2.7L TD V-6 would make a great engine addition for most passenger car applications in the NA market. While using the 2.0L for smaller applications.
RTCM is a direct mail offer
RCL is Red carpet lease loyalty
FRP is Ford replacement offer.
and Military is active military only.
RTCM, FRP, and military cannot be combined with each other. The best a customer could get is RCL and one of these three. How likely however is someone even going to be qualified for any of these let alone more than one?
Mark
There are other dealers. I suggest you use one of them...
I will be in the market for a new car in the near future - October 2005 in my car does not pass smog (every year they make it harder to pass in California). If I pass, I have the luxury to continue driving what I have for another 2 years.
I have been looking at the 500/freesytle for some time (I've been posting for a while, just not often). I've also been interested in the Passat (which is why I loved the design of the 500), especially the TDI passat.
I think it would make sense for ford to bring over their diesel offerings to the US, especially after 2006 when the diesel ban is lifted in CA.
The 500 already has some European flair (looks like the door panels were lifted from the Mondeo).
It's just unfortunate that Americans have a hateful feeling towards diesels because of the smoke spewing beasts of the 70-80's.
And speaking of the Mondeo...why didn't Ford lift the dash design from the Mondeo and install in the 500? Something like this photo -
http://www.eurologic.de/cars/ford/0308mondeo/bild2.jpg
or
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/11mayfor- d5.JPG
Would have saved some design $$ - and still given it some euro flavor.
" October 2005 in my car does not pass smog (every year they make it harder to pass in California)"
We had that in FL for quite awhile. It was quite a joke actually which they later removed... Worker's were getting bribed (I so did I) so vehicles would pass. Not that I'm giving you any ideas here.... Just drive the vehicle hard before having it tested, and hope they don't ram that tail pipe stick too deep, and your odds are with you.
I agree, I would like to see diesel offerings, although market perception will take awhile to alter for it to gain willing acceptance. This isn't to say it won't occur though. Also, placement of the diesel engine upon a specific vehicle is very critical.
Example: How many who buy a Focus, be willing to pay $2-3K for a diesel variant, on what is considered an economy car? As it was, not many taker's for the AdvanceTrac stability control system.
Ford is able to offer the Power Stroke Diesel on it's SD F-series trucks mainly because some/many customer's require the extra torque of such an engine, as well as the reliability that comes with diesels. Pricing is over $30K +, add the diesel option which is a few thousands more, and your looking at a $40K+ truck, which brings in quite a bit of profit for Ford.
So there's a fine-line of analyzing where to place such an engine. Would the regular 500 customer be willing to up a few thousands more for diesel? Etc. that's mainly what it boils down to.
Also, while the Ford vehicles in europe are designed to accept their line of diesel engines, we have specific vehicles in N.A. that would require different engine mounting, and modifications to allow the front sub frame/assembly that would accept the engine, while keeping the excellent crash ratings.
Then another item to consider, the transmission to be coupled with a diesel. It'll obviously require one that can handle high torque loads, therefore... would it fit in the mentioned vehicle?
Currently, the Focus and Fusion would be the passenger cars that could be easily altered for a diesel engine. Although, it's much easier to design a diesel for an Explorer for example, or LD F-series, since there's much more engine space available and require less modifications.
The Meta One concept hints at what's possible. Coupling it to a "hybrid" system, would allow for a consumer to receive a gov't/tax incentive (hopefully, if it still exists at that time) therefore allowing it to be a bit more reachable for most consumers.
"And speaking of the Mondeo...why didn't Ford lift the dash design from the Mondeo and install in the 500?"
Totally different size in every shape and form. You can only lift/add/replace dashboards when the vehicles are similar. SportTrac/Ranger, next SportTrac/Explorer will share the same dashboard since the SportTrac will be designed onto the new Explorers platform.
Mounting points, cowl depth, firewall, electrical, airbags, A/C ducts, steering column all need to be at an exact place to allow for such a change.
And above all, customer needs here in the U.S. The Mondeo's radio switches (evidence by it's glossiness) aren't not up to the quality of that of the 500. Also, much emphasize is placed to design the interior dashboard to facilitate it's use for people of all ages.
Notice the size of many of the buttons in US Ford vehicles, even a gloved hand is able to operate it if need be. Focus for example, has the trunk-door release button up high in the dashboard, rather than having someone search on the door ledge for a lever, like many other cars have.
Upon sitting on a vehicle, you should be able to view all buttons without moving your neck much (even elders who might have limited movements) Granted, not every vehicle can be designed specifically this way (for whatever engineering reason there might be), but this is how Ford has been concentrating/improving on it's interiors.
Here's a picture of a Third Age suit used by engineers, to help them design interiors for elderly people for example.
http://autodeadline.com/detail?source=&mid=WKA2004122250407&a- mp;mime=JPG
http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/2005/ford/500/rts20041101fh.- asp?affid=
What a disappointment! This car has NO power and the noisy engine and transmission are revving high just to keep this 3,700 pound car moving.
Driving the Avalon afterward was like going from a lawnmower into a fighter-jet in comparison.
I can't believe how dumb the Ford engineering and marketing team must be if they think this can compete with 210hp Camrys that are MUCH quicker, let alone 240hp Accords, 250hp Altima's and 265hp Maximas.
Come on Ford, even GM now have a 240hp engine in a BUICK!!!
Considering the aging buying demographics of Buick, do we really want them to have that much power? I predict a slight increase of store-front crashes where Buick driver's are claiming their accelerator got stuck... :-)
Just hoping for better options as fuel prices continue to climb.
Do you think a diesel option would really add to the price of a vehicle? As I recall, the current Passat TDI was only a few hundred over a regular GLS (~$300.00).
I know hybrid technology adds to the cost due to added materials (Batteries and Motors), and R&D costs.
On Slashdot.org (I won't post a link to another forum), there was discussion on the speed mark set recently by a Toyota Prius. Discussion also included adapting hybrid technology to diesel engines to get the best of both worlds.
Imagine a TDI which already gets 38-44 MPG (real world figures) with a motor boost (honda style) or full on hybrid (ala toyota) to extend MPG.
I'll read up on the meta one concept...I had not heard of that one before. Should make for some interesting debate (but not on this board, lets get back on topic). Ford 500 diesel, please!
Meta One Concept I mentioned moons ago in the Freestyle forum would be the concept vehicle, that will hint at the styling of the Mercury version of the Freestyle.
Here's more info...
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=19835&ma- ke_id=trust
Source: Ford Media
ad purporting to offer a deeply discounted 500 SEL. Guess it's too early to get any "cashbacks"
or other useable discounts on the 500.
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/columnists/2004/08/24/cz_jf_0824- flint.html
A decent Lincoln version of the 500 WITH A V-8, DAMMIT, would be awesome.
You just have to wait until the 2008 or 2009 model year.
based on my prior ownership of some sho's, i looked up the numbers from those cars.
'89 3.0/manual 5 spd - 3360 lbs, 220hp@6200rpm, 200ft/lbs torque@4800rpm.
'92 3.2/auto 4 spd - 3600 lbs, 220hp@6000rpm, 215ft/lbs torque@4000rpm.
five hundred 3.0/auto cvt - 3800+ lbs, 207hp@5750rpm, 200ft/lbs torque@4500rpm.
those old sho's were pretty fast. my guess is a five hundred is not a dog compared to an sho with a passenger or 2 on board. just my opinion.
Inquiring minds want to know...
Also, it depends upon what you are used to driving. Someone moving into a 500 from a Vulcan equipped Taurus or a 4 cyl Camry or Accord would probably find the 500 to be quite peppy. However, compared to a V6 Accord or even a Duratec Taurus, the 500 doesn't feel very lively.
If the Duratec 35 had been available from the beginning, the automotive press would likely have given the car awesome reviews.
A 3.5 V-6, yes. A V-8, no.
Since the 500/Montego allegedly weigh 3800#, maybe FoMoCo would consider the V-8. The use of a single platform for the 500/Montego/Freestyle suggests an effort to keep costs down.
Re: Americans looking to foreign manufacturers for upscale products, either Motor Trend or Ward's made that exact point. Such buyers see "prestige" in a foreign, not American, car. That should give pause to American manufacturers.
Additionally, the 2006 Impala will be available soon, with a 240+ 3.9L V6 that is expected to be fairly fuel efficient, and GM has promised a better interior. If the Cobalt is any indication, I see no reason not to believe.
Just a few upcoming alternatives.
~alpha
One was parked next to an '05 Taruas, I did not know they were still making these, and the 500 looked huge. Much taller and wider. All the ones on the lot had 17" wheels, really giving it a presence.
Just looking at the stickers the 6 speed transmission models are cheaper and get better gas mileage(29 highway)than the CVT. What is the purpose of the CVT, are they quicker? The 6 speeds listed at $22,500, not a bad deal for th size of the car.
Of course after I leave the lot I saw my first one on the road. I read most of the reviews that slammed it but I am starting to like it. Now I have to actually sit in one to check out the headroom.
Ford cares about the environment, not just EPA figures that aren't even close to repeatable in the world where cars function, not a test laboratory.
The manufacture of the 3.5L (Duratec-35) is not scheduled until the end of 2005 and even then it is destined for other Ford products.