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Cadillac CTS/CTS-V



  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    No one expects anything to beat the market leader on the first try. That said, CTS is far more competitive that Edmunds is making it out to be. One comment was describing CTS as the Charlie Brown of the group??

    I also disagree with the comments that the car is heavy and that the build quality was not good. If they had criticized the dash, I could have lived with that but they were pretty harsh on the car as a whole.

    There are so many positive comparisons where CTS does well (usually finishing mid-pack) and before I even read this comparison, I predicted Edmunds would put CTS in it's place (last). Nice to see Edmunds' keeping true to form.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    It is too bad the Jag-X and LS were left out.

    I thought the Charlie Brown quip was out of line as well. Especially after reading the second opinions.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    Said they weren't fans of the styling, the tone of the review was pretty much set.

    Besides the X-type and LS, there wasn't a Saab or Volvo in there either. Why they let the CTS in, I have no idea... if it's not German or Japanese it can't possibly be any good!!!
  • richw5richw5 Posts: 152
    Over the years, I've noticed that most auto writers are biased in favor of foreign cars. Jim Mateja and Dan Jedlicka (Chicago Trib and Suntimes) are prime examples. There are times when their columns (reviews) mimic what has been written in the auto buff magazines.

    I'm sure Edmunds writers follow the same pattern. If there is an identical flaw in an Cadillac and in a BMW, the Cadillac is trash and the BMW has a minor glitch.

    As far as the comments I see here, you all seem to be right on target. It's important to me that GM, Ford and Chrysler become competetive with anything from Europe or Asia. It's the American way.

    I hope Cadillac (Ford and Chrysler too) has learned their lesson from losing market share and follow this advice:

    1. Listen to your customers.
    2. Broaden your market.
    3. Create inovative vehicles.
    4. Produce Quality vehicles and continue to improve them.
    5. Give Quality service.

    The CTS is a step in the right direction. I hope the the XLR, SRX and STS will follow suit. If they do that, the auto writers/testers will be forced to give them good marks. I they don't, the public will stop reading their reviews.

    My wife will be testing a new vehicle on Sunday. She's riding a mule down the Grand Canyon with her niece. If anyone wants, I'll write a review (LOL). Needless to say, I will remain on top and take a train ride with some friends. Then it's on to Las Vegas to spend our CTSV money.

    See ya next week.

  • Edmunds reviewers are as follows. Middle Aged men wanting to be young again, and middle aged women who want to be excepted as knowledgable auto journalists. Think about it, they will always praise a car that has little conveniance. Their favorite cars are the 3 series, honda S2000, and Mazda Miata. If this were an auto enthusiast site, I could understand. But this site is supposed to inform people about the merrits of a car in all ways, not just performance and handling. Heck, even when they do comparisons on mini-vans, they will start say things like, "well this car had the least amount of seating and luggage room, but it is the best in our minds because of the silky smooth 240 hp V6. Well, I always assumed people bought minivans because of their seating capacity, and luggage room, not for performance reasons.

    All this thinking kills the CTS, and even the Lincoln LS in comparisons. These cars are much more of a logical choice than a 3 series or A4 if your anything other than a single person. These cars give the following. Above average handling(not the best), Average power, average interiors, great price, room for 4, a sizable trunk, etc. Yet Edmunds overlooks the latter things and prefers skid pad numbers, etc.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Honda, BMW, Toyota and Mercedes can do no wrong with Edmunds' reviewers. Domestic brands can do no right for the most part and the rest is a crap shoot.

    I'm not saying the reviewers are biased, just that a strong case can be made that they are.

    (yes I am trying to be PC)
  • What I meant in my last paragraph is that when you've been down and behind the competition, you need to come to the dance with everything you've got. Yes, BMW and Audi have a 30 year head start in the sport sedan market and that lead isn't overcome overnight. But Cadillac has had plenty of time to size up the market to deliver a great product.

    What I was really getting at in my commentary was that Cadillac in the last 20 years has not sweated the details in all areas of their product design. For every success, there are too many shortcomings and failures. Here's my list of things Cadillac could have differently in the past 20+ years:

    1980: Oldsmobile diesel V-8 engines. These engines were modified gas engines that ran badly and failed quickly.

    1981: Cadillac V8-6-4 engine. This was an idea that was 20 years ahead if its time. But it was rushed to market in less than a year. The result? Buyers found that solenoids that controlled the variable displacement cylinders would get dirty and fail far too easily. There's nothing worse than trying to motivate a 5000 lb Deville on a 3.0L V-4 in first gear.

    1982: Cadillac Cimmaron. Enough has been said on this issue already.

    1982: Cadillac HT4100 engine. Probably the weakest V-8 engine produced by Cadillac in 40 years.

    1987: Cadillac Seville and Eldorado. Probably the most undistinquished and boring cars Cadillac has ever produced.

    1987: Cadillac Allante. Nice idea and great looks. Hampered by a weak engine (the aformentioned HT 4100) and a convertible top that never did work quite right.

    1992: Cadillac Seviile and Eldorado. These cars were *far* ahead of their predecessors and the Seville was well reviewed in the press. So what was the problem? The acclaimed Northstar engine was late to market, not appearing until 1993.

    1997: Cadillac Catera. First attempt at a European sport sedan. It wasn't a bad car. But the car never measured up to the competition in styling, performance or handling. And the marketing stunk. You know you're off the mark when they stop inviting the Catera to magazine comparison tests.

    1999: Cadillac Escalade. The first Escalade was criticized as being too close to its Chevy Tahoe and especially its GMC Yukon Denali cousins. It was ironic since the Denali began as the project Cadillac had abandonned when its general manager thought no one would buy a Cadillac truck. So the Denali came first. When Lincoln introduced the Navigator to roaring sales, Cadillac quickly brought the Escalade to market, only to look like a quick rebadge entry of the GMC product. Fortunately for Cadillac, the 1992 Escalade redesign made everyone forget the earlier effort.

    I remind everyone of these issues out of my love of the marque. I am a Cadillac fan. My soon-to-arrive CTS will be my 4th Cadillac (after owning three Devilles). I want this brand to succeed as it did in its heyday. But Cadillac can't just introduce any car and have people fall in love with it like the 30's, 40's and 50's. There are many more competitors who put up fierce competition in the luxury car space.

    Cadillac has to reconnect with the buyers out there with the right product. The CTS is a great first step. But any missteps along the way will automatically make a car magazine reviewer say to himself "hmmm, not enough, again." The CTS came in 5th place out of 5 at Edmunds, 3rd place out of 3 in Motor Trend, and 8th place out of 11 in Road and Track. It's not that the competition makes no mistakes. The current BMW revamped styling and "iDrive" system are getting strange looks from buyers, and open criticism from writers. But BMW makes so many good things, they get the benefit of the doubt. Cadillac cashed those chips years ago.

    Cadillac cannot afford to introduce anything less than the perfect car for its price point. Anything less, and you are irrelevant in the eyes of the buying public.
  • prompting calls from GM-Insiders/GM Enthusiasts to boycott this site. Although, I personally would probably never participate in such actions, these people have legitimate grievances, and have their right to expression.

    At any rate, Edmunds' Editorial Team appeared to have no legitimate problems with the CTS. Their only arguments they could half-heartedly make against it had to do with styling, and ultra-subjective things such as seat comfort. Edmunds showed no quantitative evidence as to how the CTS was inferior to competition. And yet, they placed it last!

    This is the most recent of such events in a long strong of seemingly ultra-prejeduiced Edmunds reviews. The second-most recent in my memory, being the review of the Buick Redezvous, where it was critcized for "lack of offroad ability" just because it's non-GM supplied tires went flat, was met with the outrage of auto enthusiasts.

    As an aside, no the Edmunds' reviews are NOT biased. Something is only biased when it does substantial harm to another entity. So, they can be marked with prejudice, but are not in any way to my knowledge "biased".
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    Merciless criticism works better!!
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Several years ago they did a review on the Olds Intrigue which said that it's handling was dangerous!
    After several complaints the review was pulled.

    My complaint was that most of the reviewers were younger and simply did not have the car experience or knowledge to be writing the things they did.

    Many of them had grown up in families that never owned a domestic car.

    Also I think you will find that most of the moderator's here will not defend edmund's car reviews. Two different entities within the orginization.
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    A large Cadillac dealer here in Ma. has CTS'S in todays newspaper with a $3286 discount and it a real discount not one of those matching deals.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    I have never put much stock in any of Edmunds's reviews and comparison tests regardless of what the make is. I remember in one midsize sedan review the said the Oldsmobile Intrigue's handling was "dangerous" and then ranked a Ford Taurus at number two or three. Go figure. They criticize a car over the littlest things and for a while it seemed like in every Cadillac review they did, part of their test was to try and pry interior pieces off. Whats funny is when you go to the new car pricing section and they have the owners rating and some vehicles will have the editor's rating and you see the editiors have rated the car low while owners rate it much higher. I don't even read Edmunds reviews anymore as I stick to C&D, Road and Track, Motor Trend, and Automobile for that. I don't always agree with those guys either, but their reviews are more consistant and seem to have more substance to them. Not to mention, they are usually more accurate.
  • Hi Y'all,
    A friend of mine ( has a 2000 STS )told me that if Mobil 1 is used at the oil change it could void the CTS warranty whether the dealer puts it in at my request or if anyone else does it. He claims that the oil must be GM specific as well as the oil filter.

    I can't believe it. It's too late to contact the dealer to get their spin on it since they closed already. Anyone have any answers?

  • beach15beach15 Posts: 1,305
    Basically, WHAT A LOAD! This friend in question must be one of those that believes everything a dealer tells them and takes it to heart about service. You DO NOT need to use specific oil, and from basic knowledge, I would also say that a GM oil filter isn't a requirement, but an owner might chime in on this.
  • necrosnecros Posts: 127
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Federal Law and court decisions (including, IIRC, Supreme Court decisions) prohibit manufacturers from voiding warranties over stuff like this, unless they are willing to supply oil/filters, etc. for free.

    I believe the court decision involving this precendent actually had to do with an air filter, which is pretty analogous to an oil filter. I'll try to dig up a cite...
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,143
    to keep in mind is that the Lincoln LS was put into their "long-term review" pool, then reviewed by people who didn't realize the battery was in the trunk.

    This isn't a huge deal, but if the time comes for a jump-start for a car supposedly driven by car "experts", not being able to find the battery is a significant data point. One wonders if they can find any orifice on their body with any number of hands and optical assistance.

    These are the same people now turning on the CTS.

    Not to worry. Looks like a pretty good damn car to me.
  • necrosnecros Posts: 127
    Here's a good one from Amsoil addressing oil and warranties:

    Here's another one with a very in-depth explanation of the Act:

    Hope this helps refute your friend's ridiculous claims.

  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    A black CTS with chrome wheels sitting in traffic today that reminded me of why I like it so much.

    Everything around it looked completely ordinary.

    Another reason to like Caddys... dealer doesn't charge any more for routine service than for any other GM car, less than $20.
  • Thanks for the sites. I have sent them both to my friend and I hope that he reads both. Maybe he'll get a little wiser when he goes to the dealer.

    I was going to use Mobil 1 from now on but I went to the website to get the recommendations of what oil viscosity was recommended ,the site comes up empty on the CTS. I so wanted to send the info to him also. He told me to go to the Mercedes dealer down the street and get it changed there because I must think the CTS is a Mercedes since that's what they use there.

  • I never pay too much attention to reviews or comparisons. The reviews are opinions written by people who collect a paycheck in doing so. Lots of psychology in that equation. Comparisons of the imperical kind are more revealing of the truth. When the September 2001 Automobile Magazine gave the CTS what I thought was a fair and somewhat positive review, I checked it out for myself. I feel I know enough about cars, their manufacturers, physics, and finance, to make my own decisions. I don't need a $20-$30,000 a year columnist to make me feel good about it either.

    I don't buy foreign cars so I could care less about how they compare. If I wanted a pure performance play, I would've bought a Viper or a 'Vette, but those are two-seaters and I need something more practical.

    The CTS is great looking and a blast to drive. I was washing mine this morning and a neighbor came over and said it was, "The best looking car on the road today.". So who needs reviews??? If people keep buying 'em, the factory will keep makin' 'em.

    Necros...thanks for the warranty links, dude.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    1384 CTS's produced this week. YTD is 31,044 cars.
    If you factor in the cars that were built in 2001 they are well over the 30,000 cars they thought they would be build the first year.
  • eaton53eaton53 Posts: 356
    If you want to get gouged for a glorified oil change (otherwise known as a "multi-point inspection") go to a Mercedes dealer.

    My wife's '94 SLS has been serviced at the Cadillac dealer since new and it runs perfectly. No need to go elsewhere... and it's less than $20 for a standard oil change, certainly somewhat more for synthetic.

    I have no idea how much for synthetic since I've never used the stuff. I prefer frequent changes using conventional oil.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    Many high performance engines come with Mobil 1 from the factory, I believe the Corvette and AMG MBs are among them. I cannot imagine why it wouldn't be recommended in the CTS. I beliebe the Mangun-Moss Act of 1982(or something like that) prevents manufacturers from voiding the warranty if you don't use their brand of parts unless they provide the parts free of charge. To me, for those who plan on really pushing their CTSs, Mobil 1 makes sense. I've seriously considered switching to Mobil 1 in my Intrigue.
  • i'm sure that this has been discussed before, but i can't seem to find the info; what are the projected numbers for hp and torque for the 3.6 that's going into the cts? jackg
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Around 251 hp.
  • I have enjoyed my CTS for the last 3+ months (3,000 miles), however, I noticed a great deal of vibration/side-to-side jogging in the steering wheel when driving at speeds in excess of 30mph right from the beginning. The dealer re-balanced the tires at 1200 miles and it appeared to cure the problem. Unfortuntely, the problem reappeared during a 600 mile trip last weekend and continues to persist. Has anyone else experienced this problem and if so, the remedy?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,040
    Which tires do you have? Brand/model/size?
  • wwhite2wwhite2 Posts: 535
    you may have one or more bad tires . Have the car put in the air and spin each wheel and look for a tire that isnt running true
  • I stopped by the dealer on the way home today and asked in the service area about using Mobil 1. The guy there said it is not recommended and would be a total waste for the CTS engine !

    He added that the dealer will do it if requested but at an additional charge. The service advisor said that the oil would have to be changed every 6000 miles anyhow even if I had Mobil 1 in the CTS because the warranty wants this done at the proper intervals.

    I asked what they charged for a regular oil change only. He stated that they only do oil changes / filter and 5 point check. Cost ...$26.95. If I wanted Mobil 1, the cost would be $68.00. I asked why???????????

    I also asked if they could just do an oil change period. He just looked at me and went right into the 5 point check that is included.I am now going to shop for Mobil 1 best price (Wal-Mart)and for a cheaper rate at other GM dealers just to be curious.

    The Mercedes dealer will do a regular oil change with Mobil 1 for $44.95 a friend told me.I'm going to check on this tomorrow.

  • The CTS sales exceeded combined Escalade and EXT sales for the first time last week...

    Next stop, the Deville. :-)
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