Even with the newer soft-top, or even a hard-top, if you are going to be going above 50 mph, be prepared to hand back the megaphone to your three year old. Some of this is probably due to the design of the vehicle. There is a lot of wind resistance with the boxy shape and near vertical windshield.
Still, it is a worthy compromise when you figure in the fun factor. You could turn off the front airbag and let them ride up front, but I always feel better with them in the back.
Well I test drove the 97 Wrangler the other day, and it drove rather nicely for a Wrangler. I know they are not Lexus or BMW smooth, but as far as Jeeps go, it rode better than a 2000 I test drove new at a dealer. Maybe it was the tires. It is looking more like we will pull the trigger on this one, but the owner is asking a lot for the Jeep, based on kbb.com values for EXCELLENT ratings.
I did notice that the 4cyl had enough get up and go for me (it's for my daughter), but once I got up to 55 or so, it seemed to not want to stay there. Has anybody found the 4cyl too weak for daily driving on roads? I seriously doubt my daughter will take it on major offroad tours.
The soft top was definitely very noisy, but it was 55 mph and we were driving into about a 35-40 mph headwind. But we'd probably opt for a new hard top at some point anyway. Summer is meant for topless or bikini top.
Any recommendations for hard top dealers on the net?
The headwind you mentioned is a very good explanation for that Jeep not wanting to maintain 55 MPH very well. That four banger is just not enough engine for some situations, like hills, or headwinds.
Around town or out on the trails, I would just as soon have the four as the six, but NOT on the highway.
As far as getting a hard top, if you want factory quality, be prepared to pay close to $2000 for it, if you buy new. You might catch a deal on a used one somewhere.
It's your call, of course, but it sounds like you would be buying a Jeep that really does not have the engine you want, nor does it have a hard top, which is a VERY expensive item, and the guy wants more than top book value for it. Put all that together, Paul, and it sounds to me like you ought to do some more shopping.
Without getting into names, let me just say that someone has had their feelings hurt because of no responses to their post.
I share the guilt in this, even though I try to watch for posts that no one seems to be responding to, and I will at least say "sorry, but I don't have any info... maybe someone else can help."
Apparently, at least one unanswered post got by me.
Let's all try to watch for this in the future, OK?
We sure don't want to come across as snobs. This is probably the least snobby group in Edmunds or anywhere else. We are all buds in here, and newbies are welcomed into the family. We are NOT a clique.
So, if we see a post that is getting no repsonses, let's at least acknowledge the person's question or comment. OK?
It works both ways Tom. How often do we get a "Thanks guys!" when someone pops up here for the first time with a question and gets several replies? Not many! Even worse, someone asks a question, gets a reply asking for more information so they can be better helped, and never answers! I've seen a few of those.
Those of you that do give a "Thanks", it's appreciated (at least by me!). To the person that got their feelings hurt...... grow up! This isn't a tech support line, or a 24hr social club. If you didn't get a reply, it's not because we don't like you, we just missed it that's all. You may have to politely post again, perhaps a couple of times, and you'll get a response.
Here's another dumb question from the automotively challenged....
I'm not a huge fan of Torx screws/bolts because I feel that they tend to strip after a number of fastenings. But these jeeps seem to be just spattered with them, so I guess I have to deal. Then I read somewhere that you aren't supposed to reuse Torx bolts and you are supposed to replace them each time!? What do you all do? Also, assuming that it is okay for me to reuse them, do I need to worry at all about corrosion/rusting after the bolts get scratched up by the bit?
Sorry about the retarded questions...I just want to do what's best for my baby.
Never heard of such a thing... not re-using torx bolts. Of course they are meant to be re-used. My hard top is held on by torx bolts, and they get re-used every time the top goes back on.
Like you said, DC uses torx bolts all over the Jeeps.
But, you are right: they strip very easily, so you have to use the proper tool, and you have to be very careful.
Many people replace the torx bolts with normal hex head bolts after working on some particular part of their Jeep. Just be sure to get the proper grade of bolt, if you do that. Bolts are categorized by their strength ratings.
I started working on updating Thelma Jane's web page yesterday, and man, was it ever overdue! The previous update was in July of 2001. I had yet to go wheelin' the first time back then.
I will be doing some more work, but if ya want to see what I have so far...
Welcome. What you're talking about gets done all the time, but I don't have personal experience with the retrofits, since I have always had A/C to start with on my vehicles.
That might be something you would want a dealer to do, so that you would have some warranty on the stuff.
I called 5 places until I found a place that had a Torx T-55 bit. The guy that ansered the phone at Home Depot, didn't even know what a Torx was....(obviously, he didn't work in the tools department). And obviously I don't know where to shop. In the process I found a pretty comprehensive tool store, so I guess that was one more learning experience.
How is it that even the 'No drilling required. Simple bolt-on installation' items turn into a project?
Hi, Not exactly Mister do it yourselfer here... Trying to pull out the orig stereo deck Got the 6 screws connecting the dashboard cover out. The deck is loose but still connected somewhere/somehow. Anybody know the next step(s)?
Man, you're on your own there, as far as any help from me. Bet someone could help ya, but it ain't me.
One good investment you could make would be a Factory Service Manual. Those things get down to the nitty gritty with pictures and all on every single component of your Jeep.
I just looked up radio removal in my FSM, and it spells it right out for you, diagrams and all.
I could copy the text to a word file and send it to you, but the diagrams would not show up.
I think this is the right link to get a FSM ordered.
AW SHOOT! Jack, take a look for yourself, but I couldn't find a FSM listed on that site for the 95 Wrangler. Sorry.
Also, when I offered to send you the text in a word file, I had forgoten that you have a YJ, so the instructions probably wouldn't be accurate for your Jeep anyway. I have the FSM for an 01.
Hi Folks - I'm guilty of not responding back to advice given to me. Tom - thanks for your input and suggestions. I'm ordering my wrangler tomorrow. It's either gonna be a maxed out Sport or a Sahara. I'll make my final decision as I'm dialing the dealer. My friend seems to think that a Sahara would command a higher resale. BTW - I'm gonna get the 30" Canyon package because I really like the way those wheels look.
Way to go! If I were you, I wouldn't choose a Sahara vs. a Sport based only on potential resale value.
For one thing, you are gonna LOVE that Jeep so much that you ain't gonna want to sell it...EVER.
If you actually like the Sahara better, go for it,
The 30" tire and Canyon wheel package is great! Those Canyons are beautiful wheels. If the package is the same now as it was for the 01s, package AAS, then you are getting the Dana 44 rear end, and this could be very important later on.
Don't think a Wrangler would require any certain oil, as long as it is the right viscosity and meets the usual SAE standards.
I like Mobil 1 synthetic, and that's what Thelma Jane gets, but some people think synthetic oil is overkill and not necessary.
I like synthetic oil because of its cold flow characteristics. Even at the same viscosity rating, synthetic flows much better on cold starts, and that's when most engine wear occurs.
You'll get LOTS of opinions on motor oil and oil change interval. Hard to prove who's right and who's wrong.
Sorry i havent posted in a few weeks guys.. Wow over 130 post since ive been on last time. You guys have been busy. Well last week we had some bad storms here, with large hail. TAZZ got HIT several time on the hood & cowl. GOOD this is no deductible for this. Gonna have to have the hood & cowl replaced. I was sick about this, u guys know I cant stand a scratch on my JEEP. But now..i will an HALF new jeep. Welcome to all the new posters. Keep em coming
Hey folks - I bit the bullet and ordered my wrangler today. I got a silver sport with every option except auto trans (and anti-lock, since I got 4 wheel disk).
I've been told 6 weeks - just in time for the dog days of summer. Makes me kind of wonder though what the '04 is going to offer over the '03. I think mine will probably one of the last custom orders going down the line.
You'll really fall for the Sport model IMHO. Basically, the only things you aren't getting by not going w/the Sahara & instead optioning out the Sport are the painted fender flares (I actually prefer the unpainted look for the Wrangler), different seat fabric, & (I believe??) different wheel design. I got my 03'black sport optioned much like Tom's except that I also got the tow hooks, foglights, & dual top option included. Like your order, I also opted not to get the ABS & just went w/the 4wheel discs. From what I've read, if you go offroad much, you will prefer not having the ABS anyway. I also think you'll be glad you went w/the 5spd manual. Even in heavy traffic it's not that bad due to the Wranglers low gearing. You can keep it in 1st gear while traveling at next to nothing speed. Good luck on the waiting. This may prove to be the hardest part. :-)
Just keep posting in here and come to gill's chat room and hang out some to help you get through the waiting period.
A bunch of us who call Edmunds home also go to Gill's web site to chat just about every night. Usually from about 8 PM til around 10 PM CDST you will find some of us in there.
I go to Lake Tahoe for a week and there is so much to catch up on.
First to all the new (and soon to be) owners - congrats on buying the most fun vehicle there is. While I didn't do any real 'wheeling this past week, I did have to use 4 low to plow through a big snow drift left on a dirt road I was traveling on, and the 4x4 was nice to have as I was leaving Saturday - the roads were slushy and could have needed 4x4. Welcome to California in May...
Some minor thoughts - I have a 5 speed and my commute involves a bunch of slow and go miles. I prefer the gearing on the Wrangler, since it crawls quite nicely in 2nd gear. The usual speed always seems too slow for 2nd in the Tacoma, so I'm constantly shifting it. I would probably feel differently if my commute had many stoplights, though.
I'm not a fan of the Sahara, though the material they used this year is different than what they used in '98 when I bought my Sport. I really disliked the old fabric. I've been completely satisfied with my Sport, though it is probably the last black vehicle I'll own.
I like the hard top, though as has been said, a Wrangler is not very quiet, hard or soft top. It is very comfortable, compared to the Taco. I was delighted that the weather prediction for last week was for snow - otherwise we would have gone up in the Taco which is uncomfortable but more economical.
The one thing my '98 does have a problem with is the back latch. The Torx screws holding the mechanism keep rattling loose and I've lost 2 of them. It turns out that the "dog key" (an allen wrench used to dog down panic bars on doors) fits the screws quite well. I haven't stripped the one remaining screw yet, and I'm tightening it all the time. The other 2 were replaced by bolts (which also rattle loose). If I haven't tightened them before it rains I end up with a wet carpet! Something to check if you are buying an older Wrangler. The other thing to check is the exhaust manifold. This was a common problem a few years ago, and most have either been replaced, or else the engine would be so loud you would know it. It is an expensive repair (mine cost $800 and I've heard of people paying more than that). Another problem some '98s had is an intermittent dash gauge problem. You lose all of the dash gauges (including your odometer) and your air bag light comes on. This can be very unnerving if you are out in the middle of nowhere and navigating by odometer readings (like we were this past week). There is a TSB out on it, and maybe one of these days I'll get mine fixed. Like in a couple of weeks when I finally get my pink slip (the last payment was sent in 2 weeks ago).
I hope all of you new owners are going to be as happy as I am with my (now 5 year old) Wrangler.
For bolts that shake loose use a couple of drops of Loctite thread locker on them before assembly. A small tube costs a couple of bucks at AutoZone etc.
Got my Sport back today after having been in the shop for a check engine light. Had a major emissions leak that turned out to be my fault. I had dropped the gas tank and put a new skid plate on back in August. Seems I pinched the vacuum T as they call it and it had to be replaced. The part was free, but the labor to drop the tank and reinstall was $173.39. Hope that takes care of it. It took a full week this time to get the vehicle back.
I also had them look at a problem that pops up now and again. This is the third time in for that. They thought the brakes were the problem and have always looked at them (a popping noise). I go to leave the dealer this morning and there is the noise. I park in front of the service manager and tell him that the noise is still there. He goes and gets a mechanic and the mechanic drives the Jeep. He gets out and says the noise doesn't sound like the brakes, but thinks it could be a needle bearing in the ujoints. He gets underneath and I can hear him moving stuff back and forth. He asks me to get underneath to take a look so we are both lying under the Jeep in the drive of the dealership. The mechanic shows me some slop in the drive shaft. They now have a new drive shaft ordered for me under warranty. Will it take care of the noise?
So far a water pump, both differentials resealed (one my fault), fuel tank filler tube, vacuum T, leak detection pump, belt, belt tensioner, pulley, gas cap and a drive shaft to come.
Truth be known, I really am not complaining. I don't have a real problem with all the "things" that have gone wrong. I am still happy with Jeep and the product. I am still shooting for getting a diesel Liberty in two years, plus keeping the Sport.
Well, glad progress has been made! Sorry about the $173.39, though. I had to drop my tank a second time, if you will remember, because I broke a plastic nipple on one of the roll over valves when I installed my Kilby.
Live and learn, huh?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S. New driveshaft? Just because of a bad U-joint? Oh well, at least you won't be paying for it. Why not just replace the U-joint, though?
Talk about biting the bullet. I wish I could have done that myself, but I instead had to settle for a 2002 Cougar. It's ok as a filler, but it's no Jeep that is for certain. I always keep an eye out for options to getting a new Jeep, but am cautious in jumping at just the right situation. If it ever arises while I'm still paying on the "kitty" I'll do it if it feels right. I do have one thing in my favor...this car was purchased with the intent that I could sell it to a high schooler or a future or college student. That is one problem that I have never had...selling a car that I have purchased. Good selection I guess and I get a little carried away in my ads in the autotrader.
Sorry to hear about the dings on your baby bama. That is one thing I always dread whatever vehicle I have owned or driven...hail. Next to the obvious #1 "accident" because with both you have almost no control over the outcome or the event itself...unless of course you're the best driver in the world
Hug your Jeeps for me til I get mine
smedcougar....aka dwrangler (unfortunately I gave that name up ), Deb
Hi, guys! I'm a big fan of Jeeps, but what's the deal with quality? JD Power ratings are very low for 2003 Wrangler (just on par with Kia, ouch!), does DC care at all, or they think they've got no competition and people would buy despite the lack of quality?
JD Powers charts peoples' complaints in the first 90 days (I believe) of ownership. These complaints tend to be things like a loose fitting or scratched dash, or...you get the picture. This is an average truth for all complaints for all manufacturers in the last couple of years. It used to be that more serious complaints tended to be the norm for the industry. I guess what I'm saying is that you can not nor should not take JD Powers ratings at face value. For example, I've owned two Subarus back to back and Subaru does not seem to score very high w/JD Powers. They were the most trouble free cars I've owned thus far and tend to run and run and run. The same can be said for the Jeep Wrangler. Now, having said that, my 03 Sport had a chipped door handle and scratches in the fender flares upon delivery. Both of these complaints would be logged by JD Powers and bring the rating down. Overall, I think it's safe to say that the Wrangler has been the most reliable model in the Jeep lineup.
JD Power recently released their IQC study, based on complaints within the first 90 days of ownership. They also do long term studies, and many of those rating are available here in the vehicle pages. Another data set to mull over....
I agree with barresa62's opinion of this "quality" study. Did you see the lowest rating? I think that it was the H2. Guess what the biggest complaint was ... poor fuel milage! Now you have to ask yourself who in their right mind would buy one of those hulks and expect anything better than 10 mpg?
I think that overall vehicle quality is fantastic when compared to even 10 years ago.
BTW, I drove a KIA Sephia for three trouble free years. Sure it was easily scratched, underpowered and the interior was cheap. But, I only paid $7K for it new and did not expect a Honda.
- IMHO overall quality and reliability are as much of a function of how long the major components have been used in that model. For the Wrangler, the 4.0l engine variant has been used for a looooong time in vehicle terms. The NV3550 manual tranny has been used since '99? I think. It's a truck tranny, so it makes noises JD Powers would likely capture and rate down. The 4 speed auto is a new addition to the Wrangler, so it may not have as many of the bugs worked out for that application. Nothing on the Wrangler is very complex, which should reduce the number of big ticket "gotchas" down the road. It's designed to get rained on, driven through streams, crawl over rocks, traverse deep ditches, etc. Given it's intent, it is inherently durable, but trades these qualities for basic comfort and convenience. If you can like with the quirks, the ownership experience is great. You don't have a fancy waiting room or gourmet coffee bars next to the parts desk at your local dealer, but when you meet other Jeepers, it all makes sense. Professional, blue collar, student all will come together based on Jeep ownership. Sorry, got off on a rant there... back to quality. - For me, the biggest driver of customer satisfaction is how well your servicing dealer treats you. If you work with them, they'll ensure that any issues that come up while under warranty are taken care of in a decent and fair manner. I had 2 bad experiences with the dealer I purchased the Jeep from. I won't go back there anymore. Doesn't mean I'm unsatisfied with the Jeep, just that dealership.
It's the dealer that's important. Unless you're buying a fleet of vehicles the ratings are immaterial. You could get a Lexus that's a lemon, or a Kia that runs for 100,000 miles without a problem. Quiz the service manager, rather than your salesman, on the dealership's attitude on warranty claims etc. Remember, DC doesn't sell you your Jeep, the dealer does.
Just saw this Consumer Reports thing on quality. Looks like the Wrangler did not make either the best or worst list. Guess that puts it at about average.
Thanks for all the info on the lifts, im probably going to go with a 3 inch teraflex lift from trailquest. I wanted the Wrangler MTR's, but i hear tread life is horrible. I will be mostly driving on road, with the occasional minor recreational off roading. Any one hear about tread life with BF Goodrich and Mickey Thompson? Also, i would like a sub to put in the center console, but mopar wants 400 dollars. any suggestions on a sub that could fit without too much of a hassle? Thanks OregonTJ03
No personal experience with the Teraflex 3" lift, but have heard nothing but good things about them.
I have BFG Mud Terrains on Thelma Jane, and I am very happy with them. They are not too loud for mud tires, but definitely louder than All Terrains. Looks like I will get decent tread wear, but not as good as for All Terrains.
Since I do a LOT of wheelin, I wanted the Mud Terrains. They DO make a big difference on the trails I run. I also think Mud Terrains just plain look better on a Jeep too.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S. Check with Crutchfield for a sub. My bud at work got a killer deal on a sub for his console in his 97 Sport from Crutchfield, but the deal was good because they were trying to clean out the few remaining units and were not going to restock them. It might be too late by now. My bud got his several months ago.
Got my estimate to fix TAZZ, The hood, cowl, & both fenders replaced, & painted 1397.00. Since it was comprehensive i have no deductable(woohoo). I take him in on monday. The guy said he will fix the doors too where I scatched them lowering the hard top last year. Hopefully I will only be without TAZZ for a few days.
the check engine light came on. Had just picked it up the day before for the same thing. Talked to the service manager and said I would bring it in when they get ready to replace the drive shaft.
Jeep quality? I still have faith in Jeep products. Think I got the bad apple in the particular barrel that mine came from. If you look at all the posts on this board you don't find lots of problems. I am still happy with my Sport and am hoping that they get all the bugs worked out of mine. It still drives alright with the engine light on.
If I didn't have other vehicles I could drive, I might get a little upset. The way it works at this stage is I leave the dealer alone and he calls me every day with an update. They aren't giving me a hard time and vice versa. I am really happy with the dealer who is 40 miles from where I live. There is a dealer about 4 miles from me, but I will not have anything to do with them.
I said it before and I will say it again, I plan on getting another Jeep product in a couple of years for another daily driver to go with the SPORT. This is my second Jeep, but not my last.
The Wrangler is lots of fun, has lots of aftermarket stuff to spend your money on, and can get you places that other vehicles can not. I would be willing to bet that it is one of the most recognizable vehicles in the world. Even vehicles that are not Wranglers get called Jeeps or Jeep like.
I still plan on keeping mine and am accepting the problems that I have been having, some of them my fault.
Just got from some research. I went to Les Schwab Tire Center to compare lifts and tires. Quadratec had the 33 Mickeys at $156, and Les Schwab wanted $200. Also they had a 3" rancho lift for $1500. For the subs, Magnolia Hi-Fi said they had never seen it done before in the console, but wouldnt mind experimenting with sealing the lid and putting an 8" from below, for $450. Car Toys offered the dual sub box for the back for the trunk, with 2 10" for $400. Both places also said i would need an amp, and would be about $100. All of those prices included install.
Hi-Fi:Custom Fiberglass-Lining, 8" Sub, Amp=$500
CarToys:Dual 10" Sub Box, 2 10", Amp=$430
Even though it is more expensive for the single sub, i think i would go to Hi-Fi before CarToys simply because they have a very good install dept, and i think it would be more practical to seal the console than taking up my trunk(I would still have my glove box). As for the Tires, Quadratec all the way, and for the lift trailquest. Sorry bout the long post. OregonTJ03
I think that everyone has pretty much covered things. Every manufacturer gets a lemon in their line once in a while. My Wrangler has been about average for maintenance problems for me. I did not have anything go wrong with mine until it was past the extended warranty I bought (90,000 miles). My only 2 unresolved complaints are the rattling back tailgate (one of these days I'll get some loctite - I keep meaning to get some, but somehow just don't get around to it) and the dash gauges. That is after 5 years and over 114,000 miles (I think that's what the odometer said, at least). I did have to buy a new exhaust manifold, but they were redesigned later, and the new (redesigned) one hasn't shown any signs of cracking yet.
I don't abuse my vehicle, and I don't do rock crawling or some of the heavy duty stuff that Tom does, but I often do easier 4x4 trails, and lots of washboardy, rocky stuff, so it sees more than a street only vehicle does, and it has been holding up very well.
I'm planning on keeping my Noble Black Steed (and it is a "he") for a couple of more years. I am trying hard (now that it is paid off) to get on the right side of my 2000 Taco's loan, so I can get rid of it. I really dislike the Taco and can't wait to dump it (by the way, it has over 108,000 miles on it).
Finally jerry rigged an aftermarket cd player into my yj. Turned out there aren't any screws in the back of the deck, just a clip along the top side. Wiggled the old cassette player out and then had to splice a dozen wires while contorted like a pretzel under the dash. Not fun but worth it to have a cd player in there now. Even tho the detach face prevented the $%^& thing from fitting back in the dash properly. Had to perform surgery to the gauge/temp control/radio cover plate -- used a knife to score the area around the old radio and then a hacksaw to amputate the plastic part. Don't look to close it doesn't look to bad {grin}
- Clarion used to make a self powered "Camouflage" sub that installed into the factory console. I think it was $3-400, but hasn't been sold new for a while. You might find one on eBay or at a clearance house somewhere. - Infinity Basslink - an external sub that you'd have to find room for in the Jeep somewhere. Nto what you're looking for I'm guessing. - bazooka Bass tube. You can get an 8" self powered bazooka for $200. I've used them in hatchbacks and have heard them in Jeeps. Very decent sound for the $. They are compact enough to not steal too much room, but won't fit in teh console. - other than those, you're probably looking at a custom sub install in the factory console for $$$. Best sound, but also expensive.
You could always try to find a newer wrecked TJ at your local junkyard. I think all the Sahara's came with the sub and about half the SPorts I saw on teh lot were optioned with it.
I could care less about any surveys published about the quality of Jeep Wranglers, or any other vehicle. Just don't trust the accuracy of those things.
I will just say that my particular Jeep has made me very happy, despite three minor problems. It makes all the difference in the world how the dealer handles warranty issues. I have had very good experience with the dealer in my case..
Problems I've had with my Jeep:
1. Hard top had to be repainted very early in my ownership. There was a defect in the factory paint job, and the paint blistered off in one spot. The dealer allowed my to take it to the body shop of my choice and have the top repainted. (That dealer did not have their own body shop.)
2. Water leak where heater box goes through the fire wall. This allowed water to run down inside the fire wall under the carpet and pool in the floor on the passenger side. One trip to the dealer, and it was fixed... no further problems with this.
3. Turn signals quit working. The stalk had to be replaced. No hassle, fixed under warranty as soon as the part came in.
So, I am VERY happy that my problems were few and were minor, and that they were fixed without hassle under warranty.
Comments
Still, it is a worthy compromise when you figure in the fun factor. You could turn off the front airbag and let them ride up front, but I always feel better with them in the back.
I did notice that the 4cyl had enough get up and go for me (it's for my daughter), but once I got up to 55 or so, it seemed to not want to stay there. Has anybody found the 4cyl too weak for daily driving on roads? I seriously doubt my daughter will take it on major offroad tours.
The soft top was definitely very noisy, but it was 55 mph and we were driving into about a 35-40 mph headwind.
Any recommendations for hard top dealers on the net?
-Paul
Around town or out on the trails, I would just as soon have the four as the six, but NOT on the highway.
As far as getting a hard top, if you want factory quality, be prepared to pay close to $2000 for it, if you buy new. You might catch a deal on a used one somewhere.
It's your call, of course, but it sounds like you would be buying a Jeep that really does not have the engine you want, nor does it have a hard top, which is a VERY expensive item, and the guy wants more than top book value for it. Put all that together, Paul, and it sounds to me like you ought to do some more shopping.
Keep us posted!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I share the guilt in this, even though I try to watch for posts that no one seems to be responding to, and I will at least say "sorry, but I don't have any info... maybe someone else can help."
Apparently, at least one unanswered post got by me.
Let's all try to watch for this in the future, OK?
We sure don't want to come across as snobs. This is probably the least snobby group in Edmunds or anywhere else. We are all buds in here, and newbies are welcomed into the family. We are NOT a clique.
So, if we see a post that is getting no repsonses, let's at least acknowledge the person's question or comment. OK?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Steve, Host
Those of you that do give a "Thanks", it's appreciated (at least by me!). To the person that got their feelings hurt...... grow up! This isn't a tech support line, or a 24hr social club. If you didn't get a reply, it's not because we don't like you, we just missed it that's all. You may have to politely post again, perhaps a couple of times, and you'll get a response.
So, what's the question?
I'm not a huge fan of Torx screws/bolts because I feel that they tend to strip after a number of fastenings. But these jeeps seem to be just spattered with them, so I guess I have to deal. Then I read somewhere that you aren't supposed to reuse Torx bolts and you are supposed to replace them each time!? What do you all do? Also, assuming that it is okay for me to reuse them, do I need to worry at all about corrosion/rusting after the bolts get scratched up by the bit?
Sorry about the retarded questions...I just want to do what's best for my baby.
Thanks
Never heard of such a thing... not re-using torx bolts. Of course they are meant to be re-used. My hard top is held on by torx bolts, and they get re-used every time the top goes back on.
Like you said, DC uses torx bolts all over the Jeeps.
But, you are right: they strip very easily, so you have to use the proper tool, and you have to be very careful.
Many people replace the torx bolts with normal hex head bolts after working on some particular part of their Jeep. Just be sure to get the proper grade of bolt, if you do that. Bolts are categorized by their strength ratings.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I think the folks we have in here are more friendly and responsive than you would find anywhere else.
I think the person I was referring to was half joking anyway in what they said to me in a private conversation.
Their question got answered, Mac, so we can move on.
I appreciate the way you DO respond to posts. You have lots of knowledge to share, and you do a good job of helping others.
I love this place!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I will be doing some more work, but if ya want to see what I have so far...
http://www.members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Does anyone have any feedback on either retrofitting or aftermarket AC units?
Thanks!
liljuan Mar 20, 2003 1:51pm
Steve, Host
That might be something you would want a dealer to do, so that you would have some warranty on the stuff.
Good luck.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I called 5 places until I found a place that had a Torx T-55 bit. The guy that ansered the phone at Home Depot, didn't even know what a Torx was....(obviously, he didn't work in the tools department). And obviously I don't know where to shop. In the process I found a pretty comprehensive tool store, so I guess that was one more learning experience.
How is it that even the 'No drilling required. Simple bolt-on installation' items turn into a project?
But it's a fun project.
Not exactly Mister do it yourselfer here...
Trying to pull out the orig stereo deck Got the 6 screws connecting the dashboard cover out. The deck is loose but still connected somewhere/somehow. Anybody know the next step(s)?
One good investment you could make would be a Factory Service Manual. Those things get down to the nitty gritty with pictures and all on every single component of your Jeep.
I just looked up radio removal in my FSM, and it spells it right out for you, diagrams and all.
I could copy the text to a word file and send it to you, but the diagrams would not show up.
I think this is the right link to get a FSM ordered.
http://www.techauthority.daimlerchrysler.com
Those puppies are worth their weight in gold!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
AW SHOOT! Jack, take a look for yourself, but I couldn't find a FSM listed on that site for the 95 Wrangler. Sorry.
Also, when I offered to send you the text in a word file, I had forgoten that you have a YJ, so the instructions probably wouldn't be accurate for your Jeep anyway. I have the FSM for an 01.
I'm guilty of not responding back to advice given to me. Tom - thanks for your input and suggestions. I'm ordering my wrangler tomorrow. It's either gonna be a maxed out Sport or a Sahara. I'll make my final decision as I'm dialing the dealer. My friend seems to think that a Sahara would command a higher resale. BTW - I'm gonna get the 30" Canyon package because I really like the way those wheels look.
Thanks,
Bill
For one thing, you are gonna LOVE that Jeep so much that you ain't gonna want to sell it...EVER.
If you actually like the Sahara better, go for it,
The 30" tire and Canyon wheel package is great! Those Canyons are beautiful wheels. If the package is the same now as it was for the 01s, package AAS, then you are getting the Dana 44 rear end, and this could be very important later on.
You really ought to check out Thelma Jane's web page to read my buying experience. It was AMAZING the difference in deals that I was offered! http://www.members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html
Man, I am really looking forward to hearing what you end up getting and seeing some pics of it!
Keep us posted, by all means.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Another question if I can. Is there any general consensus on the best engine oil to use for a Wrangler? Thanks.
I like Mobil 1 synthetic, and that's what Thelma Jane gets, but some people think synthetic oil is overkill and not necessary.
I like synthetic oil because of its cold flow characteristics. Even at the same viscosity rating, synthetic flows much better on cold starts, and that's when most engine wear occurs.
You'll get LOTS of opinions on motor oil and oil change interval. Hard to prove who's right and who's wrong.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Wow over 130 post since ive been on last time. You guys have been busy.
Well last week we had some bad storms here, with large hail. TAZZ got HIT several time on the hood & cowl. GOOD this is no deductible for this. Gonna have to have the hood & cowl replaced. I was sick about this, u guys know I cant stand a scratch on my JEEP. But now..i will
an HALF new jeep.
Welcome to all the new posters. Keep em coming
BamaTazz
Roll TIDE ( ok no Mike Price jokes) lol
I got a cousin moving to Ownesboro next month
wondering how close that is to you.
BT
Owensboro is only about 40 miles north and a little east of here, Terry.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
http://www.installdr.com/InstallDocs/Jeep/Wrangler.html
I bit the bullet and ordered my wrangler today. I got a silver sport with every option except auto trans (and anti-lock, since I got 4 wheel disk).
I've been told 6 weeks - just in time for the dog days of summer. Makes me kind of wonder though what the '04 is going to offer over the '03. I think mine will probably one of the last custom orders going down the line.
surfer454
Stephen in Seattle
Just keep posting in here and come to gill's chat room and hang out some to help you get through the waiting period.
A bunch of us who call Edmunds home also go to Gill's web site to chat just about every night. Usually from about 8 PM til around 10 PM CDST you will find some of us in there.
http://itajeep.org
WAY TO GO ON THAT ORDER! That is gonna be a great Jeep!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
First to all the new (and soon to be) owners - congrats on buying the most fun vehicle there is. While I didn't do any real 'wheeling this past week, I did have to use 4 low to plow through a big snow drift left on a dirt road I was traveling on, and the 4x4 was nice to have as I was leaving Saturday - the roads were slushy and could have needed 4x4. Welcome to California in May...
Some minor thoughts - I have a 5 speed and my commute involves a bunch of slow and go miles. I prefer the gearing on the Wrangler, since it crawls quite nicely in 2nd gear. The usual speed always seems too slow for 2nd in the Tacoma, so I'm constantly shifting it. I would probably feel differently if my commute had many stoplights, though.
I'm not a fan of the Sahara, though the material they used this year is different than what they used in '98 when I bought my Sport. I really disliked the old fabric. I've been completely satisfied with my Sport, though it is probably the last black vehicle I'll own.
I like the hard top, though as has been said, a Wrangler is not very quiet, hard or soft top. It is very comfortable, compared to the Taco. I was delighted that the weather prediction for last week was for snow - otherwise we would have gone up in the Taco which is uncomfortable but more economical.
The one thing my '98 does have a problem with is the back latch. The Torx screws holding the mechanism keep rattling loose and I've lost 2 of them. It turns out that the "dog key" (an allen wrench used to dog down panic bars on doors) fits the screws quite well. I haven't stripped the one remaining screw yet, and I'm tightening it all the time. The other 2 were replaced by bolts (which also rattle loose). If I haven't tightened them before it rains I end up with a wet carpet! Something to check if you are buying an older Wrangler. The other thing to check is the exhaust manifold. This was a common problem a few years ago, and most have either been replaced, or else the engine would be so loud you would know it. It is an expensive repair (mine cost $800 and I've heard of people paying more than that). Another problem some '98s had is an intermittent dash gauge problem. You lose all of the dash gauges (including your odometer) and your air bag light comes on. This can be very unnerving if you are out in the middle of nowhere and navigating by odometer readings (like we were this past week). There is a TSB out on it, and maybe one of these days I'll get mine fixed. Like in a couple of weeks when I finally get my pink slip (the last payment was sent in 2 weeks ago).
I hope all of you new owners are going to be as happy as I am with my (now 5 year old) Wrangler.
I also had them look at a problem that pops up now and again. This is the third time in for that. They thought the brakes were the problem and have always looked at them (a popping noise). I go to leave the dealer this morning and there is the noise. I park in front of the service manager and tell him that the noise is still there. He goes and gets a mechanic and the mechanic drives the Jeep. He gets out and says the noise doesn't sound like the brakes, but thinks it could be a needle bearing in the ujoints. He gets underneath and I can hear him moving stuff back and forth. He asks me to get underneath to take a look so we are both lying under the Jeep in the drive of the dealership. The mechanic shows me some slop in the drive shaft. They now have a new drive shaft ordered for me under warranty. Will it take care of the noise?
So far a water pump, both differentials resealed (one my fault), fuel tank filler tube, vacuum T, leak detection pump, belt, belt tensioner, pulley, gas cap and a drive shaft to come.
Truth be known, I really am not complaining. I don't have a real problem with all the "things" that have gone wrong. I am still happy with Jeep and the product. I am still shooting for getting a diesel Liberty in two years, plus keeping the Sport.
Still a happy camper.
Live and learn, huh?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S. New driveshaft? Just because of a bad U-joint? Oh well, at least you won't be paying for it. Why not just replace the U-joint, though?
Sorry to hear about the dings on your baby bama. That is one thing I always dread whatever vehicle I have owned or driven...hail. Next to the obvious #1 "accident" because with both you have almost no control over the outcome or the event itself...unless of course you're the best driver in the world
Hug your Jeeps for me til I get mine
smedcougar....aka dwrangler (unfortunately I gave that name up
Stephen
Steve, Host
I think that overall vehicle quality is fantastic when compared to even 10 years ago.
BTW, I drove a KIA Sephia for three trouble free years. Sure it was easily scratched, underpowered and the interior was cheap. But, I only paid $7K for it new and did not expect a Honda.
- IMHO overall quality and reliability are as much of a function of how long the major components have been used in that model. For the Wrangler, the 4.0l engine variant has been used for a looooong time in vehicle terms. The NV3550 manual tranny has been used since '99? I think. It's a truck tranny, so it makes noises JD Powers would likely capture and rate down. The 4 speed auto is a new addition to the Wrangler, so it may not have as many of the bugs worked out for that application. Nothing on the Wrangler is very complex, which should reduce the number of big ticket "gotchas" down the road. It's designed to get rained on, driven through streams, crawl over rocks, traverse deep ditches, etc. Given it's intent, it is inherently durable, but trades these qualities for basic comfort and convenience. If you can like with the quirks, the ownership experience is great. You don't have a fancy waiting room or gourmet coffee bars next to the parts desk at your local dealer, but when you meet other Jeepers, it all makes sense. Professional, blue collar, student all will come together based on Jeep ownership. Sorry, got off on a rant there... back to quality.
- For me, the biggest driver of customer satisfaction is how well your servicing dealer treats you. If you work with them, they'll ensure that any issues that come up while under warranty are taken care of in a decent and fair manner. I had 2 bad experiences with the dealer I purchased the Jeep from. I won't go back there anymore. Doesn't mean I'm unsatisfied with the Jeep, just that dealership.
my2cworth
-twylie
It's the dealer that's important. Unless you're buying a fleet of vehicles the ratings are immaterial. You could get a Lexus that's a lemon, or a Kia that runs for 100,000 miles without a problem. Quiz the service manager, rather than your salesman, on the dealership's attitude on warranty claims etc. Remember, DC doesn't sell you your Jeep, the dealer does.
http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/usedpicks.html
Terry
OregonTJ03
I have BFG Mud Terrains on Thelma Jane, and I am very happy with them. They are not too loud for mud tires, but definitely louder than All Terrains. Looks like I will get decent tread wear, but not as good as for All Terrains.
Since I do a LOT of wheelin, I wanted the Mud Terrains. They DO make a big difference on the trails I run. I also think Mud Terrains just plain look better on a Jeep too.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S. Check with Crutchfield for a sub. My bud at work got a killer deal on a sub for his console in his 97 Sport from Crutchfield, but the deal was good because they were trying to clean out the few remaining units and were not going to restock them. It might be too late by now. My bud got his several months ago.
The hood, cowl, & both fenders replaced, & painted 1397.00. Since it was comprehensive i have no deductable(woohoo).
I take him in on monday. The guy said he will fix the doors too where I scatched them lowering the hard top last year.
Hopefully I will only be without TAZZ for a few days.
KEEP JEEPIN
BAMA!
Jeep quality? I still have faith in Jeep products. Think I got the bad apple in the particular barrel that mine came from. If you look at all the posts on this board you don't find lots of problems. I am still happy with my Sport and am hoping that they get all the bugs worked out of mine. It still drives alright with the engine light on.
If I didn't have other vehicles I could drive, I might get a little upset. The way it works at this stage is I leave the dealer alone and he calls me every day with an update. They aren't giving me a hard time and vice versa. I am really happy with the dealer who is 40 miles from where I live. There is a dealer about 4 miles from me, but I will not have anything to do with them.
I said it before and I will say it again, I plan on getting another Jeep product in a couple of years for another daily driver to go with the SPORT. This is my second Jeep, but not my last.
The Wrangler is lots of fun, has lots of aftermarket stuff to spend your money on, and can get you places that other vehicles can not. I would be willing to bet that it is one of the most recognizable vehicles in the world. Even vehicles that are not Wranglers get called Jeeps or Jeep like.
I still plan on keeping mine and am accepting the problems that I have been having, some of them my fault.
Still a happy camper.
Hi-Fi:Custom Fiberglass-Lining, 8" Sub, Amp=$500
CarToys:Dual 10" Sub Box, 2 10", Amp=$430
Even though it is more expensive for the single sub, i think i would go to Hi-Fi before CarToys simply because they have a very good install dept, and i think it would be more practical to seal the console than taking up my trunk(I would still have my glove box). As for the Tires, Quadratec all the way, and for the lift trailquest. Sorry bout the long post.
OregonTJ03
I don't abuse my vehicle, and I don't do rock crawling or some of the heavy duty stuff that Tom does, but I often do easier 4x4 trails, and lots of washboardy, rocky stuff, so it sees more than a street only vehicle does, and it has been holding up very well.
I'm planning on keeping my Noble Black Steed (and it is a "he") for a couple of more years. I am trying hard (now that it is paid off) to get on the right side of my 2000 Taco's loan, so I can get rid of it. I really dislike the Taco and can't wait to dump it (by the way, it has over 108,000 miles on it).
then had to splice a dozen wires while contorted like a pretzel under the dash. Not fun but worth it to have a cd player in there now.
Even tho the detach face prevented the $%^& thing from fitting back in the dash properly. Had to perform surgery to the gauge/temp control/radio cover plate -- used a knife to score the area around the old radio and then a hacksaw to amputate the plastic part. Don't look to close it doesn't look to bad {grin}
&Hey how'd you caome to lose that differentail?
- Clarion used to make a self powered "Camouflage" sub that installed into the factory console. I think it was $3-400, but hasn't been sold new for a while. You might find one on eBay or at a clearance house somewhere.
- Infinity Basslink - an external sub that you'd have to find room for in the Jeep somewhere. Nto what you're looking for I'm guessing.
- bazooka Bass tube. You can get an 8" self powered bazooka for $200. I've used them in hatchbacks and have heard them in Jeeps. Very decent sound for the $. They are compact enough to not steal too much room, but won't fit in teh console.
- other than those, you're probably looking at a custom sub install in the factory console for $$$. Best sound, but also expensive.
You could always try to find a newer wrecked TJ at your local junkyard. I think all the Sahara's came with the sub and about half the SPorts I saw on teh lot were optioned with it.
Good luck with the search.
-twylie
I will just say that my particular Jeep has made me very happy, despite three minor problems. It makes all the difference in the world how the dealer handles warranty issues. I have had very good experience with the dealer in my case..
Problems I've had with my Jeep:
1. Hard top had to be repainted very early in my ownership. There was a defect in the factory paint job, and the paint blistered off in one spot. The dealer allowed my to take it to the body shop of my choice and have the top repainted. (That dealer did not have their own body shop.)
2. Water leak where heater box goes through the fire wall. This allowed water to run down inside the fire wall under the carpet and pool in the floor on the passenger side. One trip to the dealer, and it was fixed... no further problems with this.
3. Turn signals quit working. The stalk had to be replaced. No hassle, fixed under warranty as soon as the part came in.
So, I am VERY happy that my problems were few and were minor, and that they were fixed without hassle under warranty.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?