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LC's need not be sold in large numbers here, just sold. There will always be buyers - those who value and use the capabilities and reliability of a LC - and, as a flagship, I expect Toy to continue selling them here. Meanwhile, for those who need others to acknowledge the value of their purchase by citing the hp or sales figures, don't worry. GM and Ford will be happy to supply you.
HiC
And just what has happened to conumers here? They're buying the hype aren't they?
Why waste time arguing about the virtues of a LC anyway? If someone buys one to be cool that's their problem, not Toyota's.
Anyone disagree with this? Or do you all agree that I am correct on this point?
Why doesn't Toyota advertise the LC? Hard to tell for sure - but if you look at the cost of advertising - and divide that by 2,000 additional sales(a whopping 50% jump from the 4,000 they sell today)it would most likely add $5,000 to the MSRP. Hardly a good investment. Maybe the LC is like rutabagas - if you are one of the few people who like them - you know where to go to buy them, if not all the advertising in the world will not get you to try them. OR - maybe it is because Toyota is losing money on every USA LC they sell and additional advertising would be a double waste of money.
Not sure why a list of GM innovations should be posted on a LC board -or why GM and Ford reliability is an issue here so I will leave that for another day.
All the posts about bling bling seem strange - are some of you saying the LC is without bling bling? That is hard for me to agree with. But maybe Nav systems, rear view cameras and rear seat entertainment systems are necessities when off roading LOL. I do not, however, consider a powerful engine to be bling bling.
As far as torque is concerned. I always smile when someone posts that torque is more important than HP. "Give me more torque - I don't care about HP". Don't you know that every engine that produces more torque AT A GIVEN RPM will also produce more HP at the same RPM. If an engine produces more HP AT A GIVEN RPM it will also produce more torque at the same RPM. Do you think that torque is only produced at low RPMs and that HP is produced at high RPMs? But please - lets not turn this into a HP vs torque discussion.
Now back to our program, the LC is not advertised, no idea why. I guess they are trying to sell on name only or they want potential buyers to step up to an LX470.
I prefer the way a turbo diesel builds power vs a gasoline engine. If the td has less hp and more torque that is ok with me. At the same time the td will be far more efficient than the gas engine. Horsepower vs torque is another discussion.
I guess I am just curious what is next for the LC, going the way of the mega, chromed out suv's without a low range transfer case or getting back to basics. I would prefer getting back to basics and the low range.
Any new insight?
I would also agree!
I would also like a Turbo Diesel TLC with a 5/6 speed manual!
Perhaps folks are just too used to the high hp, high torque gasser combination to be able to succesfully compare lower hp, high torque, higher fuel mileage diesel.
The V10 diesel 332 hp 550# ft of torque VW Toureg really stirs my imagination! It also is reputed to get mid to high 20's for fuel mileage!
The other thing about TLC is that the profit per vehicle is VERY VERY good. For example a good deal for a new TLC in australia is like 43k US dollars!
My fear for the next generation LC is exactly what FJ100 and Steelcruiser and others allude to – keeping up with bling, bling image. If so, Toyota will end up ruining the very nameplate they spent 50+ years developing. It would be a shame and call me a skeptic, but I could easily envision the next generation LC to be a puffy version of the new (and hideous) 4-runner with 300hp, chrome, and every other American car feature you can imagine. Maybe, when Terminator 4 comes out, Toyota will launch the new “T-4 Land Cruiser”, a la the T-3 Tundra. I am sure it would sell like hot cakes in the U.S., but it may require advertising. Toyota needs to step up and stick to its heritage of producing high-quality, reliable and respected vehicles. As with most American fads, hopefully the bling, bling immage will soon come to pass, but I'm not holding my breath.
Finally, I have no idea why z71 is making up data about Toy losing money on every LC sold. The dealer's may not be making a bundle, but, unlike Ford and GM, at least they are not sold in back of invoice within 6 months of new model introduction. Meanwhile, the manufacturers are making a healthy margin (and in Ford and GM's case - ALL their profits are from the truck divisions - they lose $$ on the cars).
Finally, why advertise a car that is in year 6 of a model designation? Only automakers with massive amounts of unsold inventory have to resort to that. If demand is eating up the supply, then advertising is a waste of $$.
In the end, the LC, unlike most SUV's, is not a trend, but a standard. Trends fade and ebb - standards persist - as the LC will. I suspect that to most potential US SUV buyers, the next LC will be too small, too underpowered and too expensive - and yet somehow, they will sell every one they make at a profit.
HiC
If I am paying $50-$60K for an SUV I expect it to have class leading power. But this in no way implies that I want to give up a high level of reliability. Why not demand both? What makes you think Toyota can't build a more powerful engine and still maintain reliability similar to the current engine? As far as adding a supercharger - that is one option, but what will that add - another $5K.
Without a doubt, yes. The reasons are the same ones you are ignoring. I truly forget how many 1974 TLC's were imported in country. The 1987 TLC was rumored to be app 2,000. etc, etc.
Toyota, let alone Landcruiser, has NEVER been a class leader in power.
I do not have the WW yearly production figures of TLC's, but 2000-9000 yearly, destined for the USA market is a total no brainer.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20031202
Anyway, it quietened down as soon as I pressed the "Unlock" button on the key remote and the vehicle is performing in its usual flawless fashion with no reoccurrence (so far).
Any ideas?
On an unrelated topic, so far as the HP debate goes, I was originally planning to add the supercharger's 100+ horses but after driving the LC for a few months I decided that it really wasn't necessary. The vehicle performs very well (on and off roads) as delivered.
Pumping up the horsepower in the TLC is a relatively recent phenomenon.
More than any other reason, this is why you don't see the LC in ads - it doesn't need them to sell every single unit. Yes, you'll hear of people buying new ones at good rates, but remember that for each of these there are 10 people buying them near full sticker price without a thought.
What does the future hold for the LC? The dramatic shift in US buyer tastes for huge, powerful SUVs has been met within the Toyota line by improvements to existing models (V8 in the 4Runner) and adding new ones (V8 Sequioa). The LC is unlikely to be altered much in favor of these US tastes since the rest of the world buys more of them than we have available. Will it disappear here? Unlikely - it's not the ideal value package for the US buyer anymore, but continues to provide solid profits to dealers.
IdahoDoug
I love the seats. They are quite comfortable. You do not feel like you are sitting very high as we felt in the Seq. Also, the backup camera is one of the best and easiest safety features I have seen.
As far as HP, we did not buy it to race. It has all we need and I would not want to lose any more MPG than are already lost.
Zinny
2004 Black Garnet Landcruiser
The original battery is good for about 5 years of heavy use in the LC. Time to upgrade.
HiC
Go check the battery and buy a good one.
fj100
fj100
Perhaps this early indication of impending battery failure should be noted in subsequent handbooks.
Yesterday I located the recommended Odyssey battery locally (in Santa Monica, CA) for around the $220 price mentioned. I then installed it using the "block of wood underneath" technique described.
Thanks again for all the help.
The yellow top Optima or the Odyssey.
It's for a 2000 LC.
Thanks in advance...
Type "toyota land cruiser repair".
I think if you had to pay full price for both manuals thru a dealer, your wallet would be a couple of Franklins lighter
Now in each of the above cases, one could get off a quick retort: e.g, the Ford is junk, the Navigator is too gauche, the Chev has cold start knock problems, etc. But at least the vehicles would still be in some kind of factory warranty, they wouldn;t have had 4 years of salt over their rocker panels, and they would have fresh tires and electricals. OK, someone says but they are still just American made, tarted up soccer mom vans.
Soo, lets consider what else we could buy for the 30K that wouldn't be 4 years old yet would have something "legendary" about it. How about a 2001 X5 or even a 2001 Sequoia? Maybe you think Jags are due for a rebound and currently underpriced? If so a 2004 X Series with AWD might be just the thing. Or, what if I could find for you a fully boxed, ladder frame 4X4 with a proven V8, ZF tranny, etc. that as a 2003 could be had for the same price as a four year old LC? (Hint: its made in the UK).
I think perhaps that the price of a used LC is perhaps in part due to the "legend" aspect. Not just the quality. Unless you have to be at the Baghad International Airport for an early flight tommorow AM, aren't they horribly overpriced? Sure a 2003 Disco might be a headache some times but it does have its strengths and it is in warranty.
What am I missing?
You've already got the answers in your post about why the LC would be a good choice.
Stand by, I think your inbox will fill up soon enough with lots of other comments to counter any non-LC comment you can come up with.
Good luck in your quest!
Luckliy we live in a world of free speech and if you one want a vehcile with less quality, buy it and have fun, but everytime you go to the dealer for repairs, please remember this post.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Several questions:
1) Reliability. I always wonder if some things last longer simply because people think they will and so they don't treat them as throw aways. Certainly, the Volvo 122 and 240 weren't engineering marvels (and were horrible in snow) yet everyone thinks they were great cars, especially for New England! As a result the average Volvo owner made it into a self fulfilling profacy by taking care of the car. People "know" that GM cars are crap and so don't even wash the salt off. Lo and behold, most of the General's three year old cars look like crap.
How does the LC get its reliability? IMHO the engine and the accessories must be just standard off the shelf stuff. Or does Toyota really tell the vendors to use the super duty alternator, the better master cylinder, heavy duty A/C evaporator etc. when buying for their LC production? Can anyone prove this with actual part numbers? Or is the current LC just a Sequoia powertrain on a ladder frame?
2) Options. Seems that current LCs have only two options: NAV (don't need/want it) and supplemental air bags (yes and yes). Is the option list the same back to 2000? Is it going to be hard to find a used one with the supplemental air bags?
3) Doing the deal. Let's assume that I want a 2000 or newer. Is there any year that is better than another? While the Lexus goes out the door for more money do I look for a fish who doesn't know what he has but wants out? (In that case I would immediately scrap the doctor's gold package and put on LC shocks.)Or, stick with the LC?
4) Aftermarket. Does anyone have a catalog of aftermarket brake pads, shocks,etc. etc. for the late model LC?
Thanks.
#2 - The additional airbags were not an option until 03. The 99 model has rear diff lock, the 00 model has traction and stability control. Nav came on in 01.
#3 - The Lexus has many more options, better/nicer leather, REAL wood and a adjustable suspension. The Lexus is the better buy if you want the gadgets.
#4 - Aftermarket parts are available however you have to search the web, most aftermarket parts come in from Australia.
Happy Holidays,
fj100 (really uzj100)
As an example the Lockheed Tristar was an overengineered aircraft and was far more reliable than its Macdac and Boeing competitors (which that made it more expensive so it didnt sell as well however).
Having said that, I still would have bought them, because I enjoy doing my own maintenance.
In short, by far the best, most solid, more versatile car we have ever had.
I also am looking for an upgrade but for $30K you get 1999 or 2000's wiht 60-70Kmiles. Seems steep to me. You can get one year Tahoes for that