Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
FIAT REDUX
I was in Brazil last month, and got to see the car
scene in Latin America. I saw VW, FORD, GM
(Chevrolet), and few Renaults, Peugeots, Citroens,
and VERY few Hondas. The real surprise was FIAT-it
was by far the most common make. The most popular
Fiat model was the Palio, with a 1.6 liter engine.
They seem like pretty nice cars, with a lot of
interior room (for the size). Also cheap-around
13,000 Brazilian Reals ($7,000) for a basic one.
My question-since FIAT is one of the premier
automakers in Europe (and do well in Brazil)-why
don't we see them in the USA?
scene in Latin America. I saw VW, FORD, GM
(Chevrolet), and few Renaults, Peugeots, Citroens,
and VERY few Hondas. The real surprise was FIAT-it
was by far the most common make. The most popular
Fiat model was the Palio, with a 1.6 liter engine.
They seem like pretty nice cars, with a lot of
interior room (for the size). Also cheap-around
13,000 Brazilian Reals ($7,000) for a basic one.
My question-since FIAT is one of the premier
automakers in Europe (and do well in Brazil)-why
don't we see them in the USA?
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Fiat is a huge company, and dominant in many parts of Europe as well as S.A. It's a shame they can't work it out in the US Market, because they've made some delightful cars in the past. Fiat was also, some long time ago, a dominant force in auto racing.
Too bad that Fiat didn't make it in the U.S.. I always liked their cars and wish they had been a little better build and more reliable. Love the 124 Spider.
Can you imagine, I've been trying to find an engine vibration in my Alfa for two months and no mechanic happened to notice two broken motor mounts, a worn camshaft lobe and one fan blade completely missing!
Now you know why so few people drive Italian cars.
in America.
On the positive side, Fiat and Alfa parts are reasonable and the cars are not complicated. If this were a BMW I'd be screwed, but as it is I'm out the door for $800 complete.
It is amazing that the mechanics missed the problems you mentioned. I find it amazing that incompetent mechanics can stay in business. Can you recommend a good Italian car mechanic in the East Bay? It would be good to know for future reference in case I actually do buy another Alfa, the Dino or a used (and inexpensive!) Ferrari. Thanks Mr. Shiftright!
I think less than fully competent mechanics stay in business because a) they don't cause catastrophic failure (your car just never gets up to its potential) and b) they are often nice guys so people think they're also good mechanics.
I pick mechanics like I used to pick bush pilots in Alaska. I want the guy who is taciturn and thorough and takes notes. Save the colorful stories for the dentist's office reading room.
People often make the mistake of thinking that a good Porsche or Mercedes mechanic is a good Alfa or Fiat mechanic. Simply not true.
1. quick-rusting sheet metal giving the impression of a car "falling apart",
2. the fact that a lot of owners wanted to run them without proper maintenance,
3. some actual component failures that really were just plain silly. I remember the door of my 128 getting caught by a gust of wind as I was getting in, and the stop (the thing to limit the door's travel) just snapped and let the door open all the way, like a jeep's, creating a curved, vertical dent in the fender. After that every 128 I saw, I looked for that dent, and it was present on the majority of them. That stop, by the way, was a piece of iron wire, not much bigger than coat-hanger wire, fashioned into a double hook. Very fragile.
I was surprised to learn that in Italy Fiat in general has a very similar reputation (non e` meccanicalmente buono), and certain models, like my 128 and the rear-drivers are seen by many as a joke. Of course, these might not be car people.
I'm curious about the 1500. How would you rate it as a low-budget sportscar of the period, compared to say, a Spridget?
The later models had transmissions and differentials made in Spain (by Seat) and these are definitely inferior to the Italian ones. So maybe that's what you're seeing.
Mostly look for butchery from domestic mechanics, but if the car seems clean and orderly inside, under and out, it's probably okay! It won't be easy to find one that hasn't been abused.
Rust is an issue with any car of the 1970s, so I don't think it's peculiar to Fiats.
The Fiat 124 2.0 FI Turbo from 1981 or so is a quick little car, but alas a bit fragile.
That might be a slight exaggeration, but probably generally true, at least for the time.
The 128 was a deligtful car when running, which was a good 50% of the time. You just had to be sure to get a valve job with each tune-up and a tune-up with each oil change. Also a good idea to carry a lot of wheel bearings, as they wore out faster than the tires, which if you didn't rotate em front to back, wore out pretty fast.
But there was no other car I ever had that would allow me to park next to some poor dweeb in a Corvette who took up 2 spaces in order to protect his baby. I could park quite legally in one of the half-spaces left over.
Enzo Ferrari had one with HUGE Webers and appropriate cams for buzzing around the Ferrari compound.
Well, having said all that, in the morning I'm flying out to buy a 1982 Spider for my youngest son and drive this car that I've never laid eyes on 600 miles home! I'm putting my fate in the hands of the little spider and hoping for the best. I mean, it's only got 54000 miles on it, what could possibly go wrong? (hint of saracasm)
Referring to Shifty and others, I was surprised at the availability and reasonable prices of both Alfa and Fiat Spiders. It was a toss up as to which we'd wind up buying, but he likes the Fiat styling better--although I tend to like the Alfa's better. Must have to do with Dustin Hoffman and Simon & Garfunkel!
Have a great weekend,
Hal
I presume this 124 is not a turbo. If it is, we need to talk....
Thanks for your interest and support!
More later,
Hal
As for the A/C, that's about as cold as it's going to get...you may want to think about just removing the whole system, that's what most people do...saves weight, gives you more engine access...remember, that freon is $50 a pound and it WILL leak on you.
The top shouldn't leak...maybe it can be aligned and sealed better.
Different problem--every time I get in the car I feel like a lobster someone's trying to boil. We've read the manual about the heater controls and think we've got the heat shut off, but there's a tremendous amount of heat coming in through the floor and defroster vents. On my MGs, I put a cut-off valve in the heater hose to eliminate this problem in the summer. Can the Fiat be done the same way? I haven't even looked to see where the heater hoses run or anything.
Thanks again!
Hal
try grounding the tail light body that holds the bulb, or clean up the bulb sockets. Also check that there is a ground strap between the engine and the frame! (You can substitute a battery jumper cable to see if your problems magically disappear when you ground the engine to the frame.
Thanks,
Hal
Ignition off, headlights off. You could never leave your headlights on.
I was never sure whether it was a deliberate feature or accidental.
Shifty, and I thought that was in compliance with Italian traffic law: No turning in reverse! What a crazy set-up. Power appears to be coming into the printed circuit for the tail light and being transmitted across it to the other tail light, marker light and license plate lights, but not lighting up the bulb and marker light on that side.
BTW, did I mention the small device hidden in the spare tire well that looks for the life of me like a florescent light ballast? It also appears some PO wired in a 4-way trailer type plug into the system! I think I'll just set up shop in the garage for a week or so with my tester, knife and electrical tape!
Thanks for all the help!
Hal
Back then- I thought the car was fast. Something to be said about sitting so low to the ground with so much mechanical sysphony filling one's ears. These days I would be blasted by an auto-Camry with the air conditioning. However, at the time I could dust my buddy's MGA and his brother's TR3, and that's all that mattered.
I have no point... Just fond memories of simpler autos from simpler times.
Thanks for the memories (as Bob Hope would say),
Hal
Is the Jensen-Healey a strong car? If memory serves it has a Lotus Twin-cam 4. Whatever happened to them/ They were only with us a few years.
Once my son is old enough to appreciate motoring, I think I'll look for a TR-6. I always lusted after these while driving the Fiat. A friend in a 1974 TR-6 would regularly spank me at the stop-light. Have to love that big, lazy 6-cylinder. I've always been curious how a TR-6 would fare against a Miata. Guessing powerwise +, handlingwise -.
You have a fine collection of autos. Those of us in SUV's are envious. As soon as sports cars are practical for me- I'll be in the market.
The JH feels much faster than the Fiat. It probably is, and coupled with the fact that the Spider is a much more luxurious car and your rear is not dragging the ground, it just seems more agressive and quicker. They are, however, totally different takes on the same sports car premise. I truly love them both! The JH is very un-typical for a British car--it starts and runs every time you get in it! Yesterday was the first time in almost 3 years it failed to start. When I went to check on it, the + battery cable came off in my hands. Two new cable ends last night and she's off and running this morning. It really has been a great car for my son. Loud (ANSA exhaust now), shiney (chrome wire wheels), bright (Viper Red), unique, it's everything a teen boy would want! It has given us almost zero trouble in the last 3 years which I attribute to good care from previous owners and I've got a great mechanic who really delights in working on it. Too bad the marque didn't fare better. The looks were so-so in the 70's but really don't look as dated as some of it's contemporaries do now. The interior is huge and so is the trunk (for this kind of car)! But if my memory serves me correctly, you could buy a brand new Mustang Mach 1 with all the go-fast goodies and A/C for less than a JH! The early engine failures didn't help matters either. Lotus essentially used the JH owners as test mules for their new engine. However, the marque has a very loyal following and parts are not overly plentiful, but generally you can find just about anything you want for one!
Regarding my other cars: the TR6 was my favorite street challenge when I was driving the MGC. From a distance (or in your rear view mirror) it didn't look that much different from an MGB, but that 3 liter Austin Healey engine would pull like a freight train! I even caught a 240-Z or two unawares with the C. It was a much better "cruiser" than "sports car" because the big 6 made the car nose heavy and did nothing good for the handling.
I find it amusing to listen to people talk about what a great sports car the Miata is. Not to put it down or anything, it is a great little car, but your TR6 or either of our "classics" would send home with it's tail between it's legs--provided some of our electrics didn't short out first! The advantage of the Miata is the same as the Acura NSX--it's Japanese made and therefore will run forever. It just doesn't have the "character" of the British or European classic sports cars! (nor the leaks, nor the rust, nor the electrical gremlins, etc.)
Well, I've rambled on far too long. Good luck with your son's budding automotive interest and I hope you get you another sports car soon!
Enjoy,
Hal
Of course the Miata won't require nearly the same maintenance or repairs, but then *SO* much more is known now about the various weaknesses of the various English and Italian sportscars.
I'm wondering if I might be happier in the long run with a car that requires more attention but delivers more of the roadster experience.
PS
It's funny to note that each new model (e.g., MGTD, TF, A,
Twas ever thus, I guess.
One of my favorite Brit sportscars is the AH Bugeye Sprite, which is hardly fast (0-60 in about 20 seconds!) but even more fun than a Miata.
So the old cars are about fun, not about performance, unless we get to the more exotic old stuff.
With all that noise, the instant throttle response of carburators, no power anything, and really accurate steering boxes, all running on skinny tires, the feeling of the old sports cars is hard to duplicate or even come close to in a modern car. They are no match as a rule for putting up "numbers",but if that's not so important, the rewards are many. And maintenance and repair is, within reason, more like great therapy than work to me.
Regarding Miata performance vs. _________ fill in the blank with a classic roadster. I suspect that we as drivers of such and defenders of the faith so to speak may understand the capabilities and limitations of our particular machine and may be willing to push it harder than the average Miata driver, thus achieving superior performance. Given equally prepared drivers, the Miata might win out, however, I think I've seen something that one of the Jensen Healey groups put out comparing the two nose to nose and the JH seemed to have a performance edge, but the Miata won hands down on creature comforts (especially when it came to top raising and lowering).
Later,
Hal
But I doubt modern drivers would tolerate the maintenance levels and comfort levels of a 60s MGB in a new Miata. We are very spoiled these days.
Any thoughts on this model? Experiences?
It is a very classy, comfortable, enjoyable sports car to drive. That's why I bought it.
Later,
Hal
Enjoy,
Hal
Did you know that Fiat makes the fuel injection systems for Harley Davidson motorcycles? And the cylinder heads for many Chrysler cars?
Have a great weekend!