Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50 · February 2014

@stickguy said:
That convertible is not bad looking. For the money I could use something like that when it comes time to replace my fleet if sedans with one "fun" car.

I'd like to get a convertible but to be honest I'm running out of room. One of you guys once said that the perfect arrangement would be to have one sports car, one luxury car, a truck.....and something else the wife drives.

I've reached that goal more or less but now that the Corvette is gone I miss the open top driving. I'm considering a drop top Mustang but the performance sacrifices trouble me. Decisions, decisions.

Is it possible to have it all?

explorerx4 · February 2014

@oldfarmer50
I have a Mustang GT, a Fusion Titanium, and an Explorer, Close enough.

stickguy · February 2014

Farmer, yes, it is possible to have it all. I just don't have enough money to come close to doing it.

snakeweasel · February 2014

@imidazol97 said:
Moore explained that the IRS requires bribes to be listed as income,

Yep any money that comes your way with the exception of gifts is taxable income. Sell drugs? That income has to be declaired. Rob a bank? That has to be declaired.

How do you think they got Capone?

sterlingdog · February 2014

@abacomike said:
Is anyone else having this problem?

Yes, Mike; I am. I used to get email notifications each day---some times twice a day. I suppose that I had better not complain. After not being able to sign on here twice, I feel so fortunate to be here again.

I want to thank all of you wonderful guys for your kind comments regarding my BIL. I was deeply moved by your genuine concern. You're all the greatest. It's comforting to come here for a few minutes and relieve my mind of the stress that we're enduring.

Venture (Joe): Best wishes for a good deal on the Escape. I hope that they honor their word.

Boomchek: It's so good to see you here again. I'm glad that you are enjoying your new position. How's that little boy doing who can name all of the car brands on the road? I guess he is much bigger by now. Do check in more often. We've missed you.

Richard

28firefighter · February 2014

Richard - Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. All the best to you and your family at this difficult time.

brian125 · February 2014

boomchek

I agree with your post;

There is a reason why Chrysler is still the worst Car manufactorer in this country.

Quality/ Build / Resale

With the new grand jeep as the only bright spot there cars and truck line up are awful and cant compete with the rest.................... still a poor mans choice.

driver100 · February 2014

@brian125 said:

Yeh Brian, the only Chrylsers that I would be interested in are their Jeeps, and a Chrysler 300 - if it has the Rolls Royce grill.

graphicguy · February 2014

I know the recent 300s are nice cars...at least the more recent ones I've driven. Are they competition for BMW or Audi or Benz? Probably not. But, even Audi almost went belly-up in this country over the bogus unintended acceleration debacle. It has taken them decades to get their footing in the U.S. again.

Apparently, Chrysler is doing quite well. I see an awful lot of their new cars, new Jeeps and the big Dodge trucks on the road. And, it's their new designs since Fiat got involved.

Shifting gears, I'm also seeing quite a few of Chevy's new Impalas on the road. Apparently, they finally got that car model going in the right direction, too.

I have yet to see a Mercedes CLA on the road, yet. Wonder if that's by design?

driver100 · February 2014

@graphicguy said:
I know the recent 300s are nice cars...at least the more recent ones I've driven.

I rented a 300 but it was about 4 years ago. Reminded me of my 65 Ford Galaxie...about the same technologically. Steering was very sloppy, car felt big and balky. Tiny windows and seating is really low. It did have power though.

Chryslers sales are strong probably because of price. They seem to keep their prices low...maybe not too much money spent on R&D. Most models aren't technology leaders.

I have seen about 4 CLAs and they look smart. Very exotic looking with that 4 door coupe styling. Even looks good all black...black wheels and grill etc - looks real mean. I haven't seen the interior but some have commented it isn't usual MB standards, so that would ruin it for me. Also, small back seat and trunk.

I have seen a few Impalas. Reviews are good and they seem to be comparable to the best Buicks. It seems to me the price has increased significantly and it just doesn't look like a real premium car at that price....personal opinion.

graphicguy · February 2014

driver....at first, I thought the CLA wouldn't have been worth a look. But, if you consider that a higher end and comparable Accord, Camry, Passat, Hyundai, Kia, etc, are now about the same price, the CLA becomes much more interesting. Style wise, the CLA is certainly a looker....much better than the others mentioned, IMHO!

If I still didn't feel a little of the sting about my previous Audi, I'd consider an A6.

The question I have, knowing what it costs to maintain higher end German iron, what will be the associated costs for someone who's used to paying next to nothing for maintenance of something like a Camry?

I know they are targeting younger audiences, who are looking to move from their entry level wheels. But, I can see the appeal for someone who's an empty nester, which is on the other end of that age scale.

I drove a more recent 300 (rental) last year. I thought it drove pretty well. It was well made (considering its rental duty) and had some scoot with the 6 cyl. Drove a neighbor's new Dodge Ram a couple of weeks ago. Those are really, really nice trucks. Then again, I think all of the American brands are making nice trucks these days. It's their bread and butter.

Still, by the time I'm in the market again in 2-3 years, I'm sure my mind will change more than a few times. Really want to see the new Acura TLX when it comes out. Have to take my current TL in for an oil change. May quiz my dealership on what he knows about the TLX.

driver100 · February 2014

@graphicguy said:
driver....at first, I thought the CLA wouldn't have been worth a look. But, if you consider that a higher end and comparable Accord, Camry, Passat, Hyundai, Kia, etc, are now about the same price, the CLA becomes much more interesting. Style wise, the CLA is certainly a looker....much better than the others mentioned, IMHO!

GG, I was looking at the reviews in Edmunds and the people who bought CLAs love them. First, this looks much better than any Camry or Accord to me;

This first review gives you some idea of how much people love this car;

Just picked up a CLA-250. Only $33,500 including freight. Great performance, a comfortable ride, and unbelievable mpg. I'm getting 35 mpg on the highway and 25 mpg around town. Driving on the interstate, people just stare at the car. Imagine heated seats, auto air, auto wipers, a deluxe sound system, seats that look/feel like leather without the extra cost. There is no high engine sound at 75 mph as some expert reviews claim. Who could believe a car that looks/feels like $50,000 to $60,000 for only $33,500. I love my Benz.

The 2nd review is even more enthusiastic. The site is at edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/cla-class/2014/?zip=33573&ps=new&sub=sedan#edmunds-says-pod-anchor
and I don't think you would get similar enthusiasm for a real car enthusiast from about a Camry. Mercedes was smart - get young people into their first Merc and thay will probably come back for more.

brian125 · February 2014

My last post I did forget to mention the 300. It does get a nice write up and looks nice.. My problem with that vehicle is rear visabilty.............. And Larry my golfer friend...

Another problem is i play golf down in Myrtle beach and one of the guys who is retired from NY has a 2013, 300 m.. Larry is black about 63yrs young and wears the big pimp hat and outfit so when he gets out of the 300 its just to funny. HE looks like he belongs back in the 1930's... That memory alone kills any chance of me buying a 300m....... LOL in a good way thou.. Larry is a great guy i had him over my house after golf for a cigar and drinks with the guys.. He loves the 300m it was not cheap either at 40k for a loaded model..

Chryslers and Gm Cars and trucks have been improving the last 5 yrs. I still dont think I'm ready to buy one yet. There is no reason why we cant compete with the Japanese and euro cars..... Just excuses here in America. Hopefully Fiat can help Chrysler.

I drove in the new impala with the smaller engine. It felt a little under powered but overall I liked the look and what they did to it. Rode nice, very quite inside the cabin, and handled good... Inside the impala there was plenty of leg rm, and space.. . Materials were a upgrade but nothing special .They will do very well in sales .. Buying the higher end Impala might run you close to 40k.. the bigger engine is a must unless gas is a necessity

sterlingdog · February 2014

@driver100 said:

I drove the new Chrysler 300 last month. My convertible was being serviced on a Monday morning and a salesman talked me into trying it. He had nothing else to do because I think there was one customer on the lot. It was NOT a positive experience. I'm a tall guy and the seating still seemed very low. Visibility was not good due to the window design, and the interior appointments were not impressive to me. Power and handling were pretty good but nothing outstanding. I think that I'm done with Chrysler. My great nephew loves our blue convertible with the black top. We'll give it to him when he comes home from Dubai this summer. I'm leaning toward the CTS for a replacement. Imagine me having two Caddy's after swearing that I would never own another one. That just goes to prove that you can't say "never" about any anything.

Richard

stickguy · February 2014

Giving a car away Richard? I think Fezo just had a stroke...

boomchek · February 2014

I think Chrysler's lineup is much improved over what it was 5 years ago when I used to sell them. But I will disagree about the trucks. The Rams are some of the best trucks you can buy, especially when you look at the higher end models. The fit, finish, and equipment rivals high end vehicles.

But 5 years ago Chrysler was really struggling with products. The Sebring sucked as we discussed earlier. The Aspen, which was supposed to compete with the Escalade, was a rebadged Durango. Funny enough the Aspen Limited (I'm not sure what was limited or exclusive about it) had cloth interior, manual climate control, no sunroof, and no memory seating, basically little more than a mid trim mid size sedan would have at half the price. Then Chrysler came out with Aspen Hybrid, of which our dealership got one that sat around forever until we traded it to another dealer. The Aspen Hybrid was discontinued mid year after only 6 months on the market.
The Chrysler Crossfire was a rebadged previous generation SLK. The dealerships had to buy Mercedes diagnostic equipment and tooling to service them, investing tens of thousands of dollars that they'd never get back in servicing these cars, only for Chrysler to slowly phase out production on an already very limited volume vehicle 2-3 years after bringing them to the market.

The Dodge Avenger was a slightly better looking Sebring. The Caliber was a pudgy econobox that people who couldn't get financed for anything else were forced to buy. Why it had a choice of three engines (1.8L, 2.0L, 2.4L), I have no clue, maybe to confuse consumers and dealers alike. The CVT just sucked all the life out of these cars and made them a chore to drive.

So that was about half the lineup and it kinda sucked. But I think they got a lot better now and hope they do well with their new products.

boomchek · February 2014

@driver100 said: I have seen about 4 CLAs and they look smart. Very exotic looking with that 4 door coupe styling.

The first time I saw the CLA, the front was poking out from behind another car. I thought it was a Volvo because the front design and overhand are almost identical.

imidazol97 · February 2014

@sterlingdog said: Imagine me having two Caddy's after swearing that I would never own another one. That just goes to prove that you can't say "never" about any anything.

That just shows that an having an open mind is good. In contrast, many people praise their favorite brand and overlook flaws and problems in that brand no matter what. But the GM negativity comes after years of criticizing some years of weak product deservedly so. However, like chickens pecking on a bloody chicken in a barnyard, the gang on scapegoating has dragged on way past changes and improvements in the product.

graphicguy · February 2014

@imidazol97 said:
That just shows that an having an open mind is good. In contrast, many people praise their favorite brand and overlook flaws and problems in that brand no matter what. But the GM negativity comes after years of criticizing some years of weak product deservedly so. However, like chickens pecking on a bloody chicken in a barnyard, the gang on scapegoating has dragged on way past changes and improvements in the product.

imid...Richard....don't disagree about Cadillac "changing their ways"...probably true of the entire GM organization. I always reference Bob Lutz's book when talking about GM. But, GM's problems were so ingrained, I'm still not sure they're totally out of the woods.

Then, there's the dealer who really took advantage of my late Mother in her aged years, in sales and service. That dealer still exists today and is owned by the same person. That sort of business practice goes far beyond seeing GM turn the corner. The mere fact that Cadillac sat on their hands during the whole debacle with my Mother's car certainly doesn't absolve them.

I guess I still hold resentment over that. Richard, I'm not trying to minimalize your great experience with Cadillac. I hope it continues with any subsequent Caddy you buy.

boomcheck....I think the Chryselr products you spoke about was during Diamler's and Cerebus' stewardship of Chrysler. I think those products just show the undeserved arrogance, ineptitude and mismanagement shown by those companies when dealing with Chrysler.

driver...when I'm back in the market again, I'm thinking the CLA may very well be on my shopping list.

Michaell · February 2014

@imidazol97 said:
That just shows that an having an open mind is good. In contrast, many people praise their favorite brand and overlook flaws and problems in that brand no matter what. But the GM negativity comes after years of criticizing some years of weak product deservedly so. However, like chickens pecking on a bloody chicken in a barnyard, the gang on scapegoating has dragged on way past changes and improvements in the product.

+1

Since I moved to Colorado 20+ years ago, I've had cars from the following manufacturers:

Honda ('93 Accord)
Ford ('97 Escort, '99 Expedition, '02 Explorer, '03 Focus)
VW ('99 New Beetle)
Saturn ('03 L300, '05 and '08 VUE, '06 ION)
Mazda ('10 CX-7)
MINI ('10 Cooper hardtop)
Hyundai ('13 Elantra GT)

None of them were "bad", per se. My wife was a Ford girl when I met her, and while the Saturns may not have been the 'best' choice in segment, the buying experience and the GM supplier discount I qualified for made them good deals for us at the time.

imidazol97 · February 2014

@graphicguy said: Then, there's the dealer who really took advantage of my late Mother in her aged years, in sales and service. .... The mere fact that Cadillac sat on their hands during the whole debacle with my Mother's car certainly doesn't absolve them.

Your mothers store on Gilbert(?) was inexcusable in their behavior. I suspect they felt "older buyer will be gone so no big loss." However, there are dealerships of other brands who sit on their hands. The various Honda models have had flaws, transmissions for one, and the company won't stand behind them after warranty and want large fortunes to replace. Indeed, it's the CVT trans on a 4-cyl Honda that keeps me from seriously checking it out now that they have finally done something about noise. Others have had troubles with VW/Audi, and even Fords are now getting a lot of publicity for their engines. Look at JMonroe's Hyundai problem.

But people are more forgiving of the others than of GM. I believe it's a matter of relativity.

In conclusion, I stayed with my rural Buick dealer because they were as good as the company in handling their products.

mako1a · February 2014

I had to do a refresh on boomcheck so I went into my history files. Closing in on 36 now with a son almost 4 if I calculated from 2010 correctly. Born in Poland, moved to Italy then to Vancouver, Canada. Met his wife when he sold her a Honda. Interesting story.

I got a new computer (finally) after trying to make my old XP platform keep up for the last 8 years. Went from a sluggish 1 gig ram to 6 gig. Quite a difference in speed. 8.1 is not that hard to adapt to. Richard may or may not want to try it as files open differently and it seems to be constantly resizing the text and pics.

I wish Richard well in taking care of an end of life friend. I did that for my mom for 4 1/2 years and it takes a toll. Afterwards I didn't know what to do with all the free time. Thank goodness for hospice.

I'll get caught up shortly.

boomchek · February 2014

Lol Mako, are you keeping files on all of us here? Your last paragraph sounded like a CIA briefing on me of some sorts lol.

bwia · February 2014

Dubai police get a Bugatti Veyron

The Dubai Police Department was not content with a stable of high end cars so they added a Bugatti Veyron to the lineup. Is that decadence or afluenza? Read more at http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/post--dubai-police-get-a-bugatti-veyron?icid=autos_5278

Richard, I believe you have been known to frequent this part of the world so be careful out there.

graphicguy · February 2014

Imid....yep, the dealership on Gilbert is the offending Caddy dealer.

driver100 · February 2014

@boomchek said: Boom, I like your comments on Chrslers and I have to agree, that was a good synopsis. The matching fronts was interesting, but a lot of cars look the same from that angle...including this one;

driver100 · February 2014

@mako1a said:
I had to do a refresh on boomcheck so I went into my history files. Closing in on 36 now with a son almost 4 if I calculated from 2010 correctly. Born in Poland, moved to Italy then to Vancouver, Canada. Met his wife when he sold her a Honda. Interesting story.

Mako, you must be either a top class detective or,............... a stocker...which is it?

mako1a · February 2014

@boomchek said:
Lol Mako, are you keeping files on all of us here? Your last paragraph sounded like a CIA briefing on me of some sorts lol.

I copied all the info provided by the posters during the "get to know fellow posters" we had back in 2010 to a doc file. I only look at it to refresh my memory of peoples age, city and favorite cars. Many of the current posters (after 2010) are not included and my memory only goes so far.

I still confuse the v guys venture and vertugo and the s guys stick and snake as far as what they drive, etc. Maybe I should just keep notes, but that would be too easy.

stickguy · February 2014

We'll now you look at sig lines for what we drive. And some people have actual info in their profiles.

driver100 · February 2014

@mako1a said:
I still confuse the v guys venture and vertugo and the s guys stick and snake as far as what they drive, etc. Maybe I should just keep notes, but that would be too easy.

Hope you don't have any incriminating behavior about me!

boomchek · February 2014

@driver

The BMW looks similiar but notice that the front overhang is longer on the Volvo and the CLA due to the fwd setup and the placement of the engine ahead of the front axle. The BMW's front wheels are pushed more out to the corners and there is more length front the front door line to the front axle than the others. The BMW's engine sits behind the front axle, instead of ahead of it.

oldfarmer50 · February 2014

@driver100 said:

"....or a stocker, which is it?..."

Mako1a is a stocker? Well, maybe he can tell me why my favorite brand of vanilla yogurt is no longer stocked in my local supermarket.

snakeweasel · February 2014

@oldfarmer50 said:
Mako1a is a stocker?

%$#@ you beat me to it.

snakeweasel · February 2014

@imidazol97 said:
But I could point out folks in the underground economy in this area. Untaxed income. They operate with rolls of cash because they know not o deposit it where it becomes traceable. If that money were brought into the taxable stream, both parties would be able to spend to operate a government.

If you took the supply of hard currency which is $2.65 trillion and divided among everyone in the country every man woman and child would get around $7,600. Take into account that anywhere from 40 to 60% of US hard currency is offshore and what banks and businesses have on hand you are still talking of thousands of dollars for every man woman and child in the U.S. Now look at how much money you carry on you and you can get an ideal of the size of the underground economy. You are looking at 100's of billions of dollars changing hands under the radar.

By some estiments the underground economy of the U.S. is over $2 trillion, thats about the GDP of Russia or Italy putting it in the top ten largest world economies.

driver100 · February 2014

@oldfarmer50 said:Mako1a is a stocker? Well, maybe he can tell me why my favorite brand of vanilla yogurt is no longer stocked in my local supermarket.

lol...................but, if he is a stalker he can probably tell us when you last went to try to buy that brand of vanilla yogurt.

Which reminds me...have you ever tried Kemps Frozen Yogurt...Moose Tracks is amazing and just 150 calories in half a cup.

mako1a · February 2014

I have an idea for Edmunds to make car buying a little more simple.
I was just looking at Camry in Edmunds while trying to sort out what I don't want (4 cyl engine) and make sure I get what I do want.

I'm thinking there should be an option list where you can quickly get to what is important to you the buyer. In my case it was rear view camera. My next car will have it one way or another and I still don't see (without an individual car search) if it has it or not.

Just my suggestion.

driver100 · February 2014

@boomchek said:
driver

The BMW looks similiar but notice that the front overhang is longer on the Volvo and the CLA

I did notice that, but the actual look of the lights, bumpers, and nose do look very similar. And, I am sure there will be many more that look similar from that view too. There are only so many ways you can design a front end with good aerodynamics. (Where's the spellcheck????)

abacomike · February 2014

@graphicguy said:
"The question I have, knowing what it costs to maintain higher end German iron, what will be the associated costs for someone who's used to paying next to nothing for maintenance of something like a Camry? "

GG, it costs about $330 for the first "A" service which is due 10 months after the car is purchased. You have a system prompt in the car as a reminder when the A service is due.

The second service is the "B" service which is due 10 months later and is more intricate and involved than the A service. It costs about $400.

Each of the services includes oil/filter change (Mobil 1 full synthetic) and they also clean (A) then replace (B) the interior air filters.

So, I would agree that maintenance is definitely more expensive than on Japanese cars (Toyota, Mazda, Suburu, Nissan, etc). But the costs of maintaining luxury Japanese cars (Lexus, Infiniti, etc) is about the same as Mercedes.

You can purchase 2 and 3 year maintenance pkgs. and save about $100 a year as they cost less. But you still have to replace brake pads and other wear and tear items that are not covered by the maintenance pkg.

If you purchase a BMW, you have a 4 year fully covered car for just about everything including brakes, etc.

As a member of the Mercedes Benz Club of America, I save 10% on all service and parts, which can help.

As for the CLA, they are sharp looking cars. The styled them similarly to the CLS 550. But they are FWD and use a 4 cylinder for their power plant. I drove one and found it tight inside for my stature. They are available in 4Matic (AWD). Price wise, they are very competitive with the ATS and cars like you mentioned.

You don't need leather in those cars because their vinyl is so leather like it is hard to tell them apart.

driver100 · February 2014

@snakeweasel said:

@oldfarmer50 said: Mako1a is a stocker?

%$#@ you beat me to it.

mako1a · February 2014

@abacomike said:

, it costs about $330 for the first "A" service which is due 10 months after the car is purchased. You have a system prompt in the car as a reminder when the A service is due.

Mike, is there a reason for using time instead of mileage for maintenance?
I would make no sense to a guy like me that puts on maybe 4k miles/year to do brakes/oil in that low mileage situation. Then again if a Benz were to sit on a dealers lot for 10 months, would it get new brakes even though the miles were zero?
Count me Happy with a Mustang. (even if it sits in the garage all winter)

mako1a · February 2014

@driver100 said:
One mistake and they all pounce on me like pirhannas!

At least you spelled aerodynamics correctly. (without spellcheck)

snakeweasel · February 2014

@driver100 said:
One mistake and they all pounce on me like pirhannas!

We kid because we care.

Now imagine if we didn't like you.

explorerx4 · February 2014

Things have been like the stock market lately. Down one day, up the next.
Fusion got damaged at the car dealer, but now it's fixed.
They gave me a nice loaner and let me know it was going to take longer that originally expected and made good on the revised estimate.
Couldn't easily find what my mother paid in property taxes for the year, so went to the town offices to get copies. They even highlighted the applicable payments.
After that, went to the bank to find out how I ended up with a 1099-INT for a CD that was my mothers.
Got a bunch of BS excuses. It's a mistake, you can just ignore it. Huh? Just put it on your mother's return. Huh? Can't do anything about it, you signed the paper. Huh? Getting kind of upset now.
Finally got the manager, and it's corrected going forward, manager will look into getting the 2013 1099 corrected.
Took the leap to a smart phone about 10 days ago. Now I can't make/receive any calls with it.
I paid 99 cents for it, so I'm guessing it was refurbished and I'll have just spend the cash to get a current one.

abacomike · February 2014

@ mako1a said:
"Mike, is there a reason for using time instead of mileage for maintenance?"

Mercedes uses both. The alert is either shown in "miles" to service A or "days" to service A (or B depending on which service is due). The car's computer determines which to use based on predetermined variables such as short trips vs. long trips, oil condition, driver's driving habits, etc.

Brake pads are replaced only when needed and are not scheduled by the car's computer.

In the case of someone who does not drive many miles each year, the scheduled service intervals will be shown in days, not miles and will occur once each year or 365 days.

My car shows number of days right now, but last week it showed miles. It's all based on driving habits, types of trips, city vs. highway driving, etc.

I hope this answered your question.

mako1a · February 2014

@abacomike said:
@ mako1a said:
"Mike, is there a reason for using time instead of mileage for maintenance?"

I hope this answered your question.

It did. I'm impressed that MB would have built in such an all encompassing system of maintenance reminders. Sounds like they're serious about keeping the car tip top.

oldfarmer50 · February 2014

@explorerx4 said:

Took the leap to a smart phone about 10 days ago. Now I can't make/receive any calls with it.
I paid 99 cents for it, so I'm guessing it was refurbished and I'll have just spend the cash to get a current one.

You spent less than a buck on a smart phone and you're surprised that it doesn't work?

I just saw an episode of the comedy The Big Bang Theory where the female character throws the cell phone of her cheating boyfriend out the window.

One of the other characters finds it in the street totally smashed and announces that he's going to sell it on EBay.

Maybe that's where yours came from.

driver100 · February 2014

@mako1a said:

@driver100 said: One mistake and they all pounce on me like pirhannas!

At least you spelled aerodynamics correctly. (without spellcheck)

How did I do with pirhannas (probably needs a capital P)?

jmonroe · February 2014

@driver100 said:
Which reminds me...have you ever tried Kemps Frozen Yogurt...Moose Tracks is amazing and just 150 calories in half a cup.

Now I'm the picky eater...I don't want mooses walking through my yogurt!

jmonroe

driver100 · February 2014

@mako1a said:It did. I'm impressed that MB would have built in such an all encompassing system of maintenance reminders. Sounds like they're serious about keeping the car tip top.

Especially when there is money to be made from reminding you when to bring in your car.
They are smarter than they look.

driver100 · February 2014

@snakeweasel said:We kid because we care.

Now imagine if we didn't like you.

Then I would have to go to A Mechanics Life where there's only about 2 posts a month. I'd have to post messages and then answer them myself.

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