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Jaguar SIII XJ / XJS - a much maligned classic?
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The check engine light could be anything - even the gas cap not fitted properly. It is worth getting the mechanic to hook the car up to the computer and at least read the code to find out what problem is being reported - you will then be better informed as to whether there is a real problem.
geno3 - I hear your pain with the cooling system. Make sure that you have the right type of t-stats - not just temperature, but with the jiggle pins - 'the book' and the e-mail archive at jag-lovers cover this in some depth. The other thing you may need to address is the fan clutch, or maybe the auxiliary fan. Also make sure that the hoses to the recovery tank are clear - there is a metal connector that gets blocked easily and a flimsy hose into the tank itself that often gets blocked by a kink.
http://www.wisconsinjaguars.org/
Maybe the XJ6 suffered in favour of the XJ-S. The one advantage that the 6 has is the engine, you are automativally avoiding a lot of the problems which are associated with the 12.
But of course it is still a money pit - but oh, what a money pit :-)
RE: V-8 installations. This serves three purposes:
a) You get rid of the very best part of a Jaguar, the dohc engine.
b) You ruin the car's quietness and smoothness
c) You lower its value.
"89" but with some tenacitiy and thought on repairs it should go over 175K without major repairs. I would never think of changing out the V-12 for an "8". I'll buy another V-12 and drive that into the ground instead.
I haven't owned a model that was not a tinker toy. I've had triumphs and MG's to drive and they all required a lot of attention. I still have a yearning for an E-type but they are getting increasingly expensive to purchase, own and operate. The XJS is fine for myself and my wife even thinks it still looks good up on the ramps in the driveway. Till' I get the overheating problem licked that's where it will stay. It is not worth ruining the motor. The V-12 is sophistacted beyond some backyard mechanics. I wish I had a garage to work in so I could do the things to it that I want to do. I sure miss my repair shop. Most of the problems I have encountered with any of the Jag's I've looked at is poor maintenance, neglect and a lot of poor paint.
My question to any mechanical experts out there is regarding my brakes. They squeak. The pads are practically new, as you could imagine with the low miles. Brake system looks good. The squeak I could understand would be a brief squeak that abates as you brake more and harder. But it does not. Any suggestions?
Since you owned an older Jag you know what they are like.
Since this posting is mainly for XJS info I have a Question about the convertible top. Is there a way to change the headliner without replacing the entire top like the Jag dealer informed me. I seems that the thing is in two pieces but can't find any info about replacement liners for the things unless it is a newer model. Any truth to
that story. I would like some info if at all possible.
I'm considering the purchase of a 1993 XJ6 with 50,000 miles. It is very clean and seems to start & drive fine.
The seller is asking $14,900. I think he would sell it for $14,000 to $14,500.
This car would be the primary vehicle for my
wife. But I will probably keep a 3rd spare car.
I have not owned a Jaguar before and have heard about many reliability/maintenance problems.
I've read all of the posts in this forum and read all of the stuff I could find at:
www.Jag-lovers.org/modern
It sounds like that by 1993/94 some of the problems from the late 80's had been resolved.
I don't do much with vehicle repair just oil & filter changes, spark plug replacement, air filter changes etc.
I thought I'd try to locate a Jaguar speciality repair shop & have them look at it prior to purchase. Should I have ask them to look for something in particular or just let them do a pre-purchase check ?
I'd like any advice/opinions on things to look for or anything you think would be helpful.
Thanks very much,
Walt Bell
Thanks for the comments. And I still love my Jag.
Thanks
Sandy
Last thought---check all the car's service records and see how it's been behaving...if no records are available, consider that suspicious.
without having to replace seals in the spring($3800). Buy a 10 year old Mercedes and not only will you have a happier experience...you will get more car for your money and a good resale to boot.
My friend is a highly successful dealer of luxury cars, and he has a very high business standard...so, in order to keep that standard of customer satisfaction, he now has given up selling jaguars entirely. This doesn't mean he doesn't like them (used to drive one himself)...he just feels he cannot stand behind them legally and ethically as used cars. He got beat up too many times. Something to ponder.
The answer is unequivocally, YES!
In fact, bending over for that one was so refreshing that as soon as I can scrape together enough money to fill the tank with (premium) gasoline I am going to go for a long ride in the country.
That Jag is one beautiful car, stunning inside and out. Ride, handling, SPEED, creature comforts, all excellent. You can call me crazy but every time I turn the key in the ignition I hope the road goes on forever.
And I won't be returning to this web site. I'll be out driving my Jag.
What a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been fortunate enough to drive quite a lot of different cars in my time, but nothing compares to a Jag. Yes I'm biased, and yes my English upbringing has something to do with it, but these cars have a rare ability to make people smile - and regardless of the brand, Jags for me, Alfas for Mr. S, and countless other brands for other people, that is the reason why some cars will always live on - I just can't get excited about the driving experience of a Japanese econobox.
Then, too, I often find myself having to remember that what I would drive I might not recommend to others, and vice-versa. If someone on a budget and $4,000 dollars to their name wants to buy a 70s XJ6 with 150K miles on it and asks me if it's a good idea, I feel obligated to offer a negative opinion, but for a more affluent hobbyist with mechanical talents I might have a different opinion.
I think the people happiest with Jaguars are people who are tolerant, realistic and patient when shopping.
style;rounding the front& rear lines & going back to 4 sep.headlamps,etc.
Never thought I'd see the day when
Ford or any other Detroit firm would not screw
up a classic. By the by : the squared models =
88' to 93/94 are the Series 4 . Ford has continued to amaze as the line is only looking better ea. year , although the XK8 or whatever was a dissapointment for me ,not enough XKE .
Approx.4+yrs. ago I did the unimagineable
due to a serious MVA I gave up small 2 seaters & bought an 84 XJ-6 from a neighbor.
He's they type you'd by from as he's meticulous about his cars .I grew up ni sports car country New England & when if you owned a jag you also owned a mech. or he owned you . Always loved them visually but couldn't trust them . I did however take some rides in more than a few classic jags .Incredible machines ! But I became a Porsche fanatic & still am. Anyways thats another story . So I take a flyer on this 84 xj 6 &
it's been an incredible car. Started with 77k mi.
now have 109k & it's held up very,very well. Only the normal stuff for a 16yr.old Brit .The 4.0L six is a great engine & the rest of the car is remarkable too. Except for the serious rust
problem developing due to close proximity to the pacific.
So thats how I found you'all as I'm starting the dreaded search for a newer car. I wasn't considering a Jag. only because most of the ser.3's out there are getting worn & the new ser.5's still a bit pricey. But in my search I stumbled apon a possibility since I need more
uncertanty in my life (yeah right ! ) .
Since it's almost not argeable that
the XKE was one if not the most beautiful of
of all open 2 seaters ever produced . I also am of the belief the the XJ-S Coupe is one of the most beautiful Grand Touring Coupes ever built. So I'll cut to the chase . I'm looking at the 94' or 95' XJ'S 2 dr. Coupe with the 6 cyl.
NOT the V-12.
Any suggestions ? Warnings ? Advice would be greatly appreciated.
thanks all
Other than the usual advice about buying low miles and having a good diagnostic, the only other thing that comes to mind is that you should pay as little as possible, as these cars are destined for serious depreciation, going by current evidence. (could change down the road, but...).
www.jag-lovers.org and sign up for the XJ-S mailing list. You will joing many of us crazy enough to own this car and also be introduced to Kirby Palm, author of 'the book' on the XJ-S - also available free of charge at jag-lovers.
Be prepared for most of us are not only crazy enough to own an XJ-S, we also are crazy enough to own 12 cyls, but there are some 6cyl guys as well. This is a wealth of knowledge, and will also be invaluable as a money saver when you have problems with your car.
I agree with Mr. S regarding height - my coupe doesn't have a sunroof, but I have to sit down in the seat (I'm 6'2").
When I picked up my XJ-6 I had several friends who were jag. people & I got hip to the engine swap = 350 chevy BLA BLA BLA !
That's something I could never do with
any car I have ever owned . I love the V-12 ; as many years ago I drove my best friends 1972
XKE -12 & must admit having driven alot of cars including a 72 Lambourgini Miaura : The
Jag actually scared me. But too many friends had warned me off of the 12 & I've learned the hard way over the years , so now I listen .
As I'm finding out Coupes are not
common , & open tops are common here so I may have to change my plan. Truth is I really do not like Conv.'s. Out here I would fry during the day & they really only work for me after sundown. But we'll see. Also dealers are asking for pretty good $$ for these cars so I may keep my 6 longer than expected .
Thanks again all & have a safe & great 4th
geneo
lora5,
Outside of the 24 hour time frame for my response I'm afraid, but here goes anyway. The 6 is not prone to as many problems as the 12, so that is a help. Overheating may be a problem depending upon how well maintained the cars has been - if you see a lot of Jaguar dealer stamps in the log book then you should be prepared fro problems - but that said a new rad is only about $300 - call it $500 with taxes, labour and system flush.
Serious accidents - well, no more than any other car I wouldn't have thought, as long as you keep the car maintained by someone who knows what they are doing.
Don't expect another 100,000 miles from the car, don't try and cut corners on maintenance, don't try and cut corners on maintenance and don't try and cut corners on maintenance (are you seeing a trend here?). You shouldn't have any more problems that any other high mileage car that is as complex as the Sovereign.
Luxury cars, on the other hand, are complex and while they may not break all that often normally, their systems need attention, or all hell will break loose sooner or later. Most Jaguar problems are due to bad service, and the rest of the problems due to some pretty bad engineering (good concepts but poorly executed). This often happens in a cash poor company, understandably. They're always "making do". Now with Ford's money, this *seems* to be changing. So they can test and modify things like engines before loosing them on the public and having you and me test them!
Thanks.
If the car overheats at speed on the open road then you have problems with your cooling system. In all probability this is because the car has been serviced by Jaguar and the system had something called Barrs Leaks put in it. This was designed to block small leaks in the cooling system - and it worked well. Unfortunately the product is little more than ground up nut shells and it was also very good at blocking the radiator. There are three possible cures (don't let anyone tell you that there are cheaper, quicker options, I bet my XJ-S to your dollar that they won't work).
1) Rod the radiator
2) Core the radiator
3) Replace the radiator
All involve fairly major surgery and the removal of the radiator - the cost increases as you move down the list, but guess what, so does the effectiveness of the solution. You will also need to flush the system when the rad is removed, and I would install cooling system filters as well (Gano seem to be the filter of choice). These will need to be cleaned regularly for the first couple of months.
If on the other hand the car overheats when sitting in traffic the problem is probably caused by a slipping fan clutch - it needs to be replaced. Also check the hub and blades of the fan - they have a tendency to crack. If there is any sign of damage to the fan - replace it, trust me you don't want it to fail whilst you are driving the car.
SIMON
I think the owner is hiding something that he knows and you don't.
I'd suggest saving your money and buying the cleanest, best maintained, best running XJ6 you can afford. You don't want a long list of things to fix on a car like this, or you'll be buried in no time.
Aside from all you'll learn, I'd bargain on the price, as Jaguars do not bring high book price, more toward the wholesale book.
That said - the 6.0 is a lot more reliable than the 5.3 - and 95 is a lot better than earlier years.
They have a blue 95 coupe with 45,000 miles for $19,950.
I have no affiliation with them, I just follow their website, since they seem to have the best Jaguar deals and they will arrange shipping. I know of someone in Portland, Oregon who bought a car from them & had it shipped and was satisfied, but I don't have any other info.
Firstly it still has the original fan (the yellow one), after 82,000 miles I would guarantee that you can find cracks in it - replace it or be prepared to find out how much damage it can do to the inside of a Jaguar engine compartment when it comes apart.
Secondly, it has been dealer serviced. That means Barrs Leaks in the cooling system, and that means a radiator that needs rodding, coring or more probably replacing. It also means that the cooling system will never be the same again.
Thirdly check for any gaps in the mileage history. These cars have transmission mounted transponders to record speed and mileage and the transponders often fail. If there is a period where the car doesn't appear to put on many miles be very suspicious.
Everything looks right, from what I can see from the pictures everything looks original, though I think that there should be a cover for the spare. Rust probably isn't a problem in a Texas car, but check the bottom corners of windscreen and back window for any bubbling under the chrome.
The 6 cylinders command more money than the 12s, so the price is probably fair, though shifty is more of an expert on US pricing than I am.
Thanks for the good tips, Andy.
Kal
As for not knowing much about Jags - well, read this topic and if you decide to go for it after that get involved at www.jag-lovers.org and download Kirbert Palm's guide to the XJ-S 'The Book'.
The price isn't that great, but not bad if it is a genuine Celebration, the guy wanting to turn it around that quickly suggests that he may have found some problems. At the risk of sounding like a broken record - cooling, mileage, electrical for starters.
By 91 the XJ-S was getting better, but it still has problems, this is going to be an expensive car to maintain, especially with the V12. Shifty will tell you to reckon on about $150 a month for maintenance and think yourself lucky if that is all it costs - a set of cooling hoses will set you back over $1,000 for starters (there are 22 of them).
That said, there is nothing quite like the feeling of driving a smooth running V12 XJ-S, and the celebration is an eye catcher, though not quite to my personal taste.
If you decide to buy, make sure you can afford to maintain it properly, have it inspected by someone who knows these cars before you buy it, and if paying a premium for a special edition make sure that it is as it claims to be.
If you want some more info contact me off list - and if you have a VIN I will try and find out a little more for you using some Jaguar resources.
I have suffered brain fade since I wrote that note - I am now not sure on the date for the celebration - there was a 'Rouge' edition available in 1990 - not sure whether 91 as well - oh well.
Send me an e-mail and I will try and assist.
suppose I wanted to (a) replace the AT with a GM unit (b) replace the Lucas alternator with a GM equivilent, and (c) replace the AC with a more modern system-would this guarantee me a reliable JAG? Also, with regard to the rust-what would it cost me to sandblast, re-undercoat, and rsutproff? The idea is to bring this car up to year 2000 standards-is it worth the expense, or am I better off buying a newer JAG?
There is a guy on the Jag-Lovers list who sells manual conversions for Jags (XJ-S, but he is just starting to get into sedans - he has a website - www.keislerauto.com - but it's not cheap.
As far as the rest is concerned - I have no idea on costs, but the Lucas upgrade is probably not a bad idea. 88 was the time that ignitions switched from Lucas to Marelli I believe. As far as the A/C upgrade is concerned - the stock warnings about cooling system capacity apply.
As far as the bodywork goes - I have no clue and don't want to comment.
What I will say is that this would definitely NOT guarantee you a reliable Jag. You are still left with a 12 year old car, only this time you will have sunk a ton of money into it which you will never see any kind of reasonable return on - there are nicer cars out there for the money it would cost.
Personally I agree that there isn't much point, but Jaguar caused this to some degree by not having a sportscar since the E-type.
Roll on the XKF!!!!!