Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

nyccarguy · May 2014

OUCH!

stickguy · May 2014

Based on the cost, I was expecting it it look worse.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

it's what you don't see that gets expensive sometimes.

andres3 · May 2014

Yes, some of the most expensive parts or labor items are as follows:

S4 Bumper Cover is so pretty but costs $693.
Center Grille Gray $740.00
Headlamp $980
Radiator Support $477
Condenser $430
Hood $540
RT Knuckle Cobrapress $700
Suspension Labor $504
Gear assy remove and install $600 labor
Driver's Seat Belt $466

It adds up quick, and all those new parts require new paint work in addition to there cost.

CA labor is high. CA Sales tax is high. Audi OEM prices on an S4 are fairly high.
CA labor quality is low. CA gas quality is low.

sweendogy · May 2014

@Andreas‌ - poor car- sorry to see that and as mentioned the damage doesn't look crazy bad amazing the cost of plastic and glass. Someone damaged my rig last Sunday- I was so upset I had a paintless dent guy take out the damage 2 hours later.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

Where are you in CA? Maybe I can line you up with competent people to take care of your car.

andres3 · May 2014

San Diego County, I'm more near the I8, but I work up in north county.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

Ah, I only know folks in the Bay Area. Maybe L.A. I could inquire.

flightnurse · May 2014

@andres3 said:
San Diego County, I'm more near the I8, but I work up in north county.

You by Commission Valley?

sweendogy · May 2014

Real world mpg numbers for s4 - 420 mile all highway got 28.3 mpg-

kyfdx · May 2014

That's excellent... stick or slushbox?

sweendogy · May 2014

@kyfdx@Edmunds‌ auto -

flightnurse · May 2014

Lamborghini Aventador crashes in Monaco!

With the talk about crash cars and such, I figured I would post this. I have a feeling the cost to repair this will exceeded 20K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXEyb7LrUWc

Kirstie_H · May 2014

A reporter would like to speak to someone who recently got into a car accident and was spared injury after the car's knee, hip, curtain and/or front airbags were deployed. If you believe a car's many airbags saved you from injury in a car accident, and you want to share your story, please send your daytime contact information to pr@edmunds.com no later than Friday, May 9, 2014 at 1 p.m. PT/4 p.m. ET.

flightnurse · May 2014

First drive and short review of the new M3

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-bmw-m3-sedan-first-drive-review

andres3 · May 2014

I was able to average about 29 MPG travelling to Sacramento and back down to San Diego again. That includes miserable LA traffic. The S4 with the 7-speed dual clutch is the best drivetrain for my money. Love that mileage because I drive 80+ where possible.

sweendogy · May 2014

@andres3 amazing in comfort you can hover 80 and have the rpm under 2k - makes for a nice highway cruse

andres3 · May 2014

@sweendogy said:
andres3 amazing in comfort you can hover 80 and have the rpm under 2k - makes for a nice highway cruse

Maybe they changed the gearing for 2014's.... at 76.5 MPH I'm at 2K RPM in 7th Gear. At 80 just a smidge above, maybe 2,100-2,150.

nyccarguy · May 2014

Switching gears to the current crop of ELLPS. I'm starting to see more and more MB CLAs & a few Audi A3s on the road. The CLA definitely has the "Look at me, I'm driving a Mercedes" look going for it. While the Audi is much more conservatively styled. I actually like the way the Audi looks. This new breed of ELLPS v 2.0 definitely keeps one well within the confines of a mid $30K price range which is great because the price point has definitely escalated of the traditional ELLPS since this discussion started.

stickguy · May 2014

After checking out both at the auto show, I vastly prefer the Audi. And the 320i BMW over the Benz.

laurasdada · May 2014

Same here, I was a bit underwhelmed by the CLA. Thought the A3 to be a handsome devil, however. A3 was on a pedestal at the NEIAS, so I could only admire from afar...

flightnurse · May 2014

@andres3 said:
Maybe they changed the gearing for 2014's.... at 76.5 MPH I'm at 2K RPM in 7th Gear. At 80 just a smidge above, maybe 2,100-2,150.

For me at 80, I'm about 2150 also, Rick in the Genesis is about 2275 at 80. Now my vette at 80 was at 1750. At a 100 it was 2100...

flightnurse · May 2014

@nyccarguy said:
Switching gears to the current crop of ELLPS. I'm starting to see more and more MB CLAs & a few Audi A3s on the road. The CLA definitely has the "Look at me, I'm driving a Mercedes" look going for it. While the Audi is much more conservatively styled. I actually like the way the Audi looks. This new breed of ELLPS v 2.0 definitely keeps one well within the confines of a mid $30K price range which is great because the price point has definitely escalated of the traditional ELLPS since this discussion started.

I don't think CLA is really going to work as well as Audi A3 or 320i. It has the looks, but that is about it. Haven't seen any in Phoenix or Tuscon, but in San Diego, I was surprised on how many I see.

sweendogy · May 2014

@flightnurse - you have an s4? Or is that the 320? The corvette might the perfect sports car for the modern age- it runs with anything - is cheap - 55k for 450 plus hp and 29 mpg highway - sick

flightnurse · May 2014

Hey Graphic what is the TL running? It's in my BMW.

graphicguy · May 2014

FN....I'll have to look. Not quite sure what RPMs it runs at 80 MPH. I know the last road trip I took from Cincinnati to Chicago (with a little in town driving-10%) I netted 28 MPG (manual calculations). Buzzing around town, I get about 21-22 MPG.

I've seen a couple of CLAs around here. They're lookers. Sat in one at the local auto show. Not bad, but I wonder if an Accord doesn't have a nicer interior?

A3....a looker also. S3, probably more my speed (literally). Still trying to get over my S4 experience, though.

Still anxious to see the new TLX in the flesh.

And, NYC, I do agree. The ELLPS that are hitting the streets (CLA, A3, 320i, etc) are, generally speaking, an exciting bunch, given their price points.

flightnurse · May 2014

Graphic, when it comes to cars brand means a lot. Look at Hyundai, Rick's Genesis is a perfect example. It has the same content as a E class and 5 Series and the price is that of a mid level 3 series. The ride is on par with a Lexus GS, but it does not have the star on the hood or the roundel. So people could get a Accord over a CLA but wont.

andres3 · May 2014

I took my S4 in for the 5,000 mile service (oil change and tire rotation) at Audi Escondido yesterday afternoon. I'm supposed to pick it up this afternoon, but they said with all the fires going on around San Diego County, one of them is close enough to them that they have been ordered to evacuate; so another day and night without the S4 it'll be. I halfway have my fingers crossed the whole place will burn down so my diminished value claim will be eliminated and I can just get a new S4

The 1,000 deductible will likely be less than my depreciation and diminished value losses, even after getting a check for diminished value, which could take a while with the speed of Mercury's decision makers.

flightnurse · May 2014

Andres3 I was just in San Diego the flight out, I was in awe at all of the fires.. I'm hoping people will be safe. I remember the fires that Mt Laguna had in 1970 we could see the red/orange glow at night..

San Diego has had it's share of fires...

graphicguy · May 2014

@flightnurse said:
Graphic, when it comes to cars brand means a lot. Look at Hyundai, Rick's Genesis is a perfect example. It has the same content as a E class and 5 Series and the price is that of a mid level 3 series. The ride is on par with a Lexus GS, but it does not have the star on the hood or the roundel. So people could get a Accord over a CLA but wont.

FN....I think over time, and having had a fair amount of cars in my driving lifetime, it becomes clearer to me in seeing, feeling, and experiencing differences in cars. I'd be hard pressed to pick a CLA over a loaded Accord for less money.....especially given on just about every metric you use, the Accord seems to be the better car.

As you note, however, perception is reality many times. The Genesis is a perfect example of that. I've yet to hear anyone state they went from the Mercedes or BMW dealership over to the Hyundai store to cross shop the 5/E/Genesis. On top of that, the new Genesis is quite the looker in its own right.

BTW...was on the interstate last night. Got the TL up to 80 MPH. It was turning right around 2,100 RPM. While driving last night, I was thinking having had the twin scroll turbo in the BMW and the S/C in the Audi, while not as fast, the 3.7L in the TL spurs on quite well, and sounds expensive to boot.

Andres....stay safe!!!!!!!

flightnurse · May 2014

@graphicguy said:
As you note, however, perception is reality many times. The Genesis is a perfect example of that. I've yet to hear anyone state they went from the Mercedes or BMW dealership over to the Hyundai store to cross shop the 5/E/Genesis. On top of that, the new Genesis is quite the looker in its own right.

Rick is a Realtor, his main clientele are people looking to purchase houses in the 500,000 to a Mill homes. Most are driving MB, BMW, Audi, Jag's etc,, When he take them out in his car, they are all impressed with the Genesis on fit and finish, ride and comfort. Now has he turned any of them to sell their cars for a Genesis, I doubt it. The people who can afford these cars have been buying them for years. Mark is a perfect example, he is an Audi guy, I doubt he ever looked at a Genesis before buying his S4. This doesn't mean those who have bought a Genesis didn't have a MB or BMW in the past.

We all know that MB, BMW, Audi want the younger buyer, so if they are looking at a fully loaded Accord, then buying a A3 or 320 is within their reach...

flightnurse · May 2014

So Audi teases the faithful with a RS3....

http://blog.caranddriver.com/pardon-our-drool-audi-teases-rs3-with-awesome-525-hp-concept/

sweendogy · May 2014

On the accord / cla comments - I was also very vocal in the past as accord better then tsx and entre TL- I would Also say its prob better in v6 loaded form then the overly cheap 320- or as bmw likes to call it the leaser dream-

flightnurse · May 2014

@sweendogy said:
On the accord / cla comments - I was also very vocal in the past as accord better then tsx and entre TL- I would Also say its prob better in v6 loaded form then the overly cheap 320- or as bmw likes to call it the leaser dream-

Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that...

andres3 · May 2014

I like the TL, but I think the 3.7L needs a bit more juice. It's a fine engine, but I feel the weight of the TL and the larger engine when driving it. Also, the 6-speed auto seems like an antique, but it appears your real world mileage has bested the EPA estimates????

The main two problems I had with the TL were:

1) The exterior looks and style (or lack thereof)
2) The interior button layout and too many little buttons.

If they listen to my recipe, they'll have a real winner:

Boost HP and Torque 10-15%
Drop 300 lbs.
Fix the styling.
Better button quantity and layout.
More color selection (and better colors)
Boost EPA mileage 15%

sweendogy · May 2014

"Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that..." Bmw would never call it that, true they want you to think that you are getting a great lux car - 269 a month with 3k down for 36m/30k miles. Seems sweet until you see the lack of technology, power, lux vs a honda accord.

andres3 · May 2014

Worse still the 320 means you are likely getting a "lame" loaner car as a courtesy vehicle while getting your "free" BMW maintenance done.

flightnurse · May 2014

@andres3 said:
Worse still the 320 means you are likely getting a "lame" loaner car as a courtesy vehicle while getting your "free" BMW maintenance done.

Interesting comment coming from someone who never owned a BMW, just for the record, my loaner was a 328d, which had M sport package. The dealership I deal with had X1's, 328i, 328d's and a few X5's. No 320i's as loaners.

flightnurse · May 2014

@sweendogy said:
"Mind showing where BMW has called the 320 a "leaser dream"? I highly doubt they ever called it that..." Bmw would never call it that, true they want you to think that you are getting a great lux car - 269 a month with 3k down for 36m/30k miles. Seems sweet until you see the lack of technology, power, lux vs a honda accord.

The 320i is an entry level into a premium brand, just like the A3 is, however, the real difference is, the 320i isn't a smaller car like the A3 or CLA. It's the same F30 as the 328i which means you get a real back seat for two adults, something that the Audi and MB can not claim. This is what is setting BMW apart from Audi and BMW.

When it comes to leasing, the unknown will take the 3K down and $269/m deal, since if they went to a toyota dealer that is what they would have leased a Camry LE for.

sweendogy · May 2014

We get the320 is a 3 series, I remember Infiniti had a g25 at one point- that didn't last for long. bmw is set apart because its competitive leases, not nothing more

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

Possibly that impression of being a leaser dream comes from the automotive press, which has been sort of hammering the point:

"With a $33,475 base price, the 320i will allow BMW to advertise more affordable base-model lease deals, potentially with comparable pricing to second-tier competitors--Motor Trend

"BMW's new base 320i brings 3 Series ownership within reach of a lot more people than ever before" -- LeaseBusters

flightnurse · May 2014

The interesting thing is people who know all about BMW leases can lease a mid level 328i for around $300/m. In fact, on Bimmerfest one of the Sponsor's which is a BMW Dealer has a great lease on a 528i for $465/m. A friend just did a Euro Delivery on his M235i, ZERO down, and payments of $502/m with tax, MSRP was $49K selling price was $45K.. BTW, yes these leases had 7 MSD's.. Which is the smart way to go.. I'm told Audi doesn't do MSD's which is ashamed it's a win win both both Audi and customer.

Now as I pointed out, Audi now has the A3, which will lease about the same.. Smaller car then a 320i...

kyfdx · May 2014

Audi has an MSD program.

robr2 · May 2014

@flightnurse said:
The interesting thing is people who know all about BMW leases can lease a mid level 328i for around $300/m. In fact, on Bimmerfest one of the Sponsor's which is a BMW Dealer has a great lease on a 528i for $465/m. A friend just did a Euro Delivery on his M235i, ZERO down, and payments of $502/m with tax, MSRP was $49K selling price was $45K.. BTW, yes these leases had 7 MSD's.. Which is the smart way to go.. I'm told Audi doesn't do MSD's which is ashamed it's a win win both both Audi and customer.

Now as I pointed out, Audi now has the A3, which will lease about the same.. Smaller car then a 320i...

Except that the people BMW is targeting with a $319 lease deal on a 320i aren't the type that have the money to do multiple MSD's - they are going to have a hard time coming up with the $3800 needed to drive it away.

The A3 and the CLS are not targeted against the 320 in their base form - the real competition will be here next year as the next 1 series.

flightnurse · May 2014

@robr2 said:
Except that the people BMW is targeting with a $319 lease deal on a 320i aren't the type that have the money to do multiple MSD's - they are going to have a hard time coming up with the $3800 needed to drive it away.The A3 and the CLS are not targeted against the 320 in their base form - the real competition will be here next year as the next 1 series.

This is true, but people just need to dig a little and save a bunch.

So really there is no direct competitor for the 320i. I was looking at base price.

dino001 · May 2014

@sweendogy said:
We get the320 is a 3 series, I remember Infiniti had a g25 at one point- that didn't last for long.

It didn't stick because it had a pathetic engine and price and not enough price difference with G35/G37. From reports I read 320 engine is not bad at all and the pricing difference makes better sense.

kyfdx · May 2014

I've leased both a BMW and Infiniti with payments in the $300s, and MSDs.

ELLPS aren't just leased by strivers, seeking to stretch their budget. Plenty of car enthusiasts, just looking for good value for their money.

stickguy · May 2014

well, the 320 and 328 have the same engine. One is just in a higher state of tune. So like having a few less standard features, it really is the same car. Heck, 1/2 the people that get a 328 probably would never be able to tell if they got a 320i motor by mistake!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2014

60 less HP though. I bet you'd notice

kyfdx · May 2014

Yeah.. 180 vs. 240

But, when the E46 came in 325 or 330, the horsepower difference was 184 vs. 225. You could definitely tell the difference, but the 184 HP in the 325i certainly seemed adequate. I'm not a giant fan of the horsepower wars...

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