Thanks for the Yoko feedback. They are rated pretty highly by buyers on Tire Rack, so I think (today, anyway) I'm going to go with them. They seem like a very good value, and better than the BS H/Ts (my oem), and even the H/Ls.
I found a local station that will do the unmount old / mount & balance new for ~ $14/ tire. I'm happy with that. Minimum saving over buying locally is well over $100.
I just used their services, and with new wheels and tires. Flawless, no scratches, quick work, and they seem to know tires/wheels well (thats all they do!)
And for around $40, you get lifetime road hazard, balance and rotation on stuff you didn't even buy from them! The deal is better because they even pricematch (or order) Tirerack tires (I think - the guy behind me in line had a printout from Tire Rack and was going to get them to, don't know if they agreed!)
$435 is a great deal on the A/T+II. I hope you enjoy your rubber. My wife rarely goes way off road in her(it used to be mine?) '99 Tahoe Sport 2dr so the LTX M/S suited her fine. The OEM goodyear RT/S was pure garbage.
4X4 specific? I'd say more like SUV specific. I guess you could apply to trucks also.
This is for 90% on road usage. 90% on road is probably about average to above average on road usage for most SUV's. I think this would be a decent gauge for people wanting tires for SUV's which will be driven mostly on roads.
Just bought a 96 outback and looking for tire replacement. Not too interested in OEM Michelins due to cost. Interested in the the Yoko Avid Touring or Aegis LS4. Any recommendations for cost effective tires assuming: - Average driving (city/highway) - Nanny mobile - No. Virginia area (snow handling not critical) - Dry/wet traction important. Thanks! Pete
I just checked the Sam's Club website for tires for my 2001 RX300. They only offer a bunch of Goodyears, on Michelin, and a couple of Uniroyals. And the prices are not that low. Actually tirerack.com gives better prices. At tirerack.com one can actually get the OEM Bridgestone Dueler HT for $72 each. Total for 4 tires with shipping would be ~$320. Now at Sam's Club I would spendmore than $400 on Goodyears.
Then I checked out of curiousity what Sam's club would have for my other car - 2002 TL-S. Again, a bunch of Goodyears at high prices.
ruski: Does Sam's Club price include mounting and balancing the new tires? Don't forget TireRack's shipping charge, ~$40.
bretfraz: What do you think of the owners' survey results on TireRack? They had a lot to do with my interest in the Yokos, which rated higher than the Michelins in most categories.
Good question. Bridgestone Potenza RE950s too are rated as wonderful, including snow traction, with over 1,000,000 miles rated. Yet you point out bretfraz that Bridgestones in general have a marginal rep for snow traction (thanks, BTW). Others say that Bridgestones have hydroplaning issues when worn. Who to believe? Can tire rack surveys be considered useful?
While doing my shopping at local dealers last week, one tire store manager showed me various tires in the store room (nice guy), and told me that the better snow traction comes from the tires that have the diagonal, or offset, grooves or recesses (for want of a better word - I forget what term he used as he was pointing them out to me), as opposed to tires that have the more straight grooves or recesses, continuous around the tire (which I think may be better for rain traction, along with lots of sipes).
"And extremely biased towards off road traction...
...But good info regardless. No secret that BFG dominates off road sales. But the new Goodyear Wrangler MT/R is excellent."
I thought it said 90% on road usage. That doesn't sound biased towards off road traction, and certainly not "extremely biased towards off road traction". That sounds like most typical SUV's I know and see.
Well, I looked at the tire choices and read the comments and the sigs from the voters and came to the logical conclusion. When the majority of voters are serious off-road enthusiasts, what tires do you think they'll vote for?
And I didn't see too many pavement-type tires in the voting selection either. Mostly M/T and A/T tires.
Well, I find them interesting reading but that's about it. I never put too much emphasis on consumer surveys since they're too empirical for my tastes. Just a collection of opinions and random observations.
For people who are 100% clueless about tires and are afraid/skeptical of tire retailers, the surveys are somewhat helpful.
Are you just begging a squabble? You asked for bretfaz's opinion and he gave it to you. If you choose to disagree fine, but you have your answer. Now let's move on.
Bret - I understand and agree with your point about the survey thing. For people that are visiting this board and looking for how to start out a tire purchase, how would you (or anybody else for that matter) suggest people start out that process. I'm assuming that asking mechanics, friends, relatives, etc. is one way, but what else?
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Thanks for the assist. I wasn't taking his comments personally; the poll was interesting but didn't mean much to me.
Tire shopping for those who aren't into tires isn't as easy as shopping for other consumer items. One big reason is that everyone's application is slightly different. What works for one person may not work for another. Sure, all tires do the basics but being that tires are your #1 safety item, their performance should be seriously considered.
Publications like Consumer Reports are always helpful. Everyone knows their reputation and they do an excellent job of testing. Magazine articles also help a lot; many auto magazines publish tire tests and comparos. I get a lot of my info from the mfr websites and literature. Marketing directives aside, the mfr is still the best place to get detailed info on a specific tire as they are the only ones who know the design and engineering parameters.
Consumer-derived info can also be helpful to add a little perspective. The surveys on Tire Rack, e-pinions, and other places can help refine choices. Keep in mind that the vast majority of consumers cannot accurately compare tires so take their comments with a grain of salt, maybe less.
Finally, your local tire dealer can be very helpful. Like any salesperson, they want a satisfied customer who will come back and send their friends. And some will steer you towards a tire that maximizes their profit margins. As long as that tire is the best for you, no problem. But it sure helps to do some research in advance just like any other consumer product.
I just wanted to help clear up the point that the original poster was looking for your typical SUV tires, to be used on road 90% of the time. This sounds like probably your typical SUV user. While it also mentioned living in the Southwest, and I don't, it still applies for many people on this board.
Post the size of the tires you need. Consider Dunlops, Falkens, Yokohomas etc if you want relatively quiet but still decent-performance tires. I bought Falkens (ZIEX ZE-512) for my car recently, and absolutely love them. Low profile but still very quiet, good wet traction and much better (stable) on the highway (and on ramps, he he)
Also, hitting refresh after posting causes the message to post again as you must have noticed by now!
I haven't seen anything posted here, so I thought I'd ask. I think I'm going to go with the Yok's for the wife's minivan, but I used to have a set of Cooper Tires on a 1993 Ford Probe when I was in college, and they were unbelievable! I replaced the stock Firestones at about 45K and the Coopers went 90K and still had half tread left on them when I sold the car at 135K! They weren't the absolute best traction tires I ever came across, but they gave decent wet and dry traction, and like I said, they wore forever! Is Cooper still a tire I should consider?
I think I read recently (within the last couple weeks) some news item about Cooper tires, but I can't be sure. Might help to run a search for some such thing. Hope this helps.
Best light truck replacement tire (tie), plus some class action suit news re older radials at their website, www.coopertire.com. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Probably the smoothest tire I can think of is the Michelin Symmetry. OE on the Lincoln Town Car and Mercury Grand Marquis. And available in your size. Ya might want to check out WalMart. They stock the Symmetry and may have it in your size (no special order).
You're not alone, Boilerman! I bought a 2002 Camry LE that has those things on (T-rated). The tires are the only thing about the car that I wouldn't rate as good to excellent! I find that wet traction is so-so, they are loud on coarse pavement, and I'm not sure how they'll do in winter driving. So, I've also been looking around, and the things I've read and the people I've talked to are pointing me in the direction of the Michelin X-One or the Dunlop SP Sport A2. If you deal with snow (and don't want to spend for winter tires), then you might want to consider the BFGoodrich Control T/A M65 or M80. At least Consumer Reports rated that tire highly. I plan to get my new set next month, and right now I'm leaning to the X-Ones, although lots of people rave about the Dunlops as well. There's a lot of contradictory info out there, too, so good luck!
I've got 18K miles now on my 2000 Bonneville's Goodyear Aquatread IIIs. Bought them last Dec. Loved them for Jan thru May and started to notice vibrations. In June the left front outer tie rod was replaced and tires rotated but that didn't stop the vibe. During summer less highway mileage accrued and the problem wasn't so bad. Now that I'm driving 100 miles round trip again to work it's back. At 70 mph there's what I can best describe as a harmonic frequency vibration that pulses on and off. The vibe could be felt under my left foot on the wheelwell and in the seat and steering wheel.
NTW rotated the tires last week and noticed 'feathering' on the two tires that had just come off the front. The vibration is not noticeable now that those tires on the back.
Any thoughts or comments? Is NTW correct that 1000 miles of driving those feathered tires on the back will 'round them out' again??
...is sort of the Kiss Of Death for tires. Once a tire's been worn like this, they don't really come back to "normal". Kinda like putting tires on life support.
Frequent rotations will help balance the tires so you can get the max mileage out of them but they'll never be like new.
Hopefully you fixed the root cause as that is what caused the feathering in the first place.
I just wanted to help clear up the point that the original poster was looking for your typical SUV tires, to be used on road 90% of the time. This sounds like probably your typical SUV user.
Hmmm...I'm not sure how much it matters in this context, but...typical SUV user does 10% of his/her mileage off road??? I think typical SUV user amount is zero. Even car manufacturers admit that only about 10% of SUVs ever go off road. Are we talking serious off roading like you need an SUV for? Or dirt/gravel, etc?
I ask because, although that poll and the discussion around it is probably very useful for off roaders, it doesn't have much relevance to the majority of SUVers (like me) that never do serious off roading (the closest I get is a fire road).
The biggest specific concern for me on this vehicle is how quickly my tires wear, which must be due to the heaviness of the vehicle (I have a 2001 Pathfinder with dunlop GrandTreks). Has there been any discussion of SUV tires with this in mind? Please let me know and I'll look for it. Thanks.
I purchased a set of Michelin Radial LT's in size 31x10.50x15 for my 4x4 pickup at Costco 40K miles ago for $105 each. They still look and drive like new.
These are simply the best tires I have ever come across for this vehicle.
The best kind are the ones they use on sedans. Of course, you first need to trade your SUV in for the sedan those sedan tires come premounted on. Among other things, you save on mounting and balancing expenses as well!
"typical SUV user does 10% of his/her mileage off road??? I think typical SUV user amount is zero."
I said typical. I imagine many do more (50%-95%) offroad, but not your TYPICAL suv owner.
"....Are we talking serious off roading like you need an SUV for? Or dirt/gravel, etc?..."
No, this poll was DEFINITELY NOT for serious off roading. It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road. The serious guys get boggers, MT's, or other similar "aggressive" type tires.
"...it doesn't have much relevance to the majority of SUVers (like me) that never do serious off roading (the closest I get is a fire road)."
It is for people who do maybe 10% offroad, which is not your serious offroader. It is aimed at 90% on road use suv's. I thought that was pretty clear.
(A fire road is NOT considered offroad. Notice the word "ROAD" in fire ROAD?)
Bretfaz - what causes this problem??? Is it typically a suspension issue like the tie rod end? If so then I would imagine that it would only affect the tire on that wheel - not both.
Tire defect? If so I've got to battle Goodyear.
Is it driving style?? I don't drive agressively but have been a bit assertive once in a while in off-ramp situations after installing an antisway bar in back. No squeeling tires or anything like that so I'd be surprised if that's the answer.
I learned at BFG that, except for extreme balance problems, tires cannot cause feathering or cupping all by themselves. I think that's substantially true still of automobile road tires. It can always be traced to some loose suspension or steering part. Since you needed a tie-rod end replaced, that is the obvious source of the movement.
As for how modern tires handle feathering or cupping, I'll defer to bretfraz. Early radials would never recover to a smooth tread surface.
A fire road is NOT considered offroad. Notice the word "ROAD" in fire ROAD?
No need to get testy...I said I "never do serious off roading" and that "the closest I get is a fire road"...so who are you arguing with? In any case, the word "road" in "fire road" is not a terribly descriptive term...I would not take a car on those fire roads.
No, this poll was DEFINITELY NOT for serious off roading. It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road.
Well, we completely disagree about those numbers, but since I'm not trying to re-create other topics here ;-) I'll leave it at that.
However, those are not good choices for someone that only drives on asphalt (which, IMO, is the typical SUV owner).
You make the point:
I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.
Well, the point is that they are NOT "road tires" as in "road/only" tires.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but when someone comes here to see about SUV tires and reads "these are good for the typical SUV owner", I think this is misleading.
So, that list/survey is good for those that do some offroading, fine. Has there been any discussion here about SUV road/only tires?
Thanks Alfox. If they don't correct themselves I can see these are not going to last long for me. I had heard somewhere (after buying them) that Aquatread IIIs are rather 'unforgiving'. Finding that out I guess. Ironically I have asked repeatedly and for months at NTW whether there was any tire damage as a result of the tie rod end problem.
Wow! I didn't know this helpful poll would bring so much controversy!
"...I would not take a car on those fire roads."
I have taken my Corolla, then my Civic, and my wife's Jetta on them. I bought the SUV for when I go off of these roads and need more clearance.
"No, this poll was DEFINITELY NOT for serious off roading. It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road.
Well, we completely disagree about those numbers,"
What numbers? That is it. That was(is) what the poll was(is) about.
"However, those are not good choices for someone that only drives on asphalt (which, IMO, is the typical SUV owner)."
Which is why they are called AT (All Terrain) tires.
"You make the point:
I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.
Well, the point is that they are NOT "road tires" as in "road/only" tires."
You seem to be missing it (the point). Reread it.
"I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but when someone comes here to see about SUV tires and reads "these are good for the typical SUV owner", I think this is misleading."
If your typical SUV owner does not do that kind of driving, maybe. Then the point becomes "Why have an SUV?".
"So, that list/survey is good for those that do some offroading, fine. Has there been any discussion here about SUV road/only tires?"
I think so. You'll have to read back into previous posts.
I have taken my Corolla, then my Civic, and my wife's Jetta on them. I bought the SUV for when I go off of these roads and need more clearance.
There's no national standard for fire roads ;-) I'm sure there are some that you could drive a Corolla on, but on the ones I drive on, it wouldn't last 50 feet without frequent bottoming out with serious damage. And the grade would leave the tranny smoking. Point is, "fire road" doesn't define much, but I would not call it serious off roading and the ones I'm on need an SUV but not an A/T tire.
on my disagreeing with some numbers: What numbers? That is it. That was(is) what the poll was(is) about.
This number: It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road.
IMO, 90% of SUV drivers never go off road...not dirt or gravel, but off road to the point you need an SUV or PU. I disagree about the 10%.
on missing your point: You seem to be missing it (the point). Reread it.
Ok, I'll re-read it: I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.
I said they were not appropriate for road/only. AT tires are for road/off road mixed use, not road/only use. Yes, you could use them but they would be a poor choice. Are you disagreeing with this?
If your typical SUV owner does not do that kind of driving, maybe. Then the point becomes "Why have an SUV?".
Hmmm...what a good point. Maybe we should start a topic on that...wait, no...we already do ;-)
Point is, most SUV owners don't have "off roading" as a requirement, so they don't need A/T tires...how many SUVs come equipped with them?
I think so. You'll have to read back into previous posts.
Ok, thanks...I'll look back...as I said, I'm kinda unhappy with the wear on my Grandtreks (standard on PFs). I'm at about 20K now and I'll need new by 25k or 30k.
I have a '98 Corolla LE that came with OE 185/65r14's (MS rated). @ 40k replaced them w/ Firestone Firehawk SH30 195/60r14's (also MS rated) and quite satisfied w/ them still 20k later. Feels like handling improved a bit too and feels fine in the rain.
IMO tires are quite subjective once you get over the specs, tread pattern, rubber compound, etc. unless you're in the tire business. The tire rack surveys are a good read since they supposedly come from users. The car mag evals are also good since they subject the tires to a bit more than daily drivers do. After, the price range and type it boils down to your driving habits, car condition, environment, and your "feel". To each their own.
Like a stereo and speakers, it boils down to your ear. Good luck!
Comments
They are rated pretty highly by buyers on Tire Rack, so I think (today, anyway) I'm going to go with them. They seem like a very good value, and better than the BS H/Ts (my oem), and even the H/Ls.
I found a local station that will do the unmount old / mount & balance new for ~ $14/ tire. I'm happy with that. Minimum saving over buying locally is well over $100.
Regards,
ss4
And for around $40, you get lifetime road hazard, balance and rotation on stuff you didn't even buy from them! The deal is better because they even pricematch (or order) Tirerack tires (I think - the guy behind me in line had a printout from Tire Rack and was going to get them to, don't know if they agreed!)
90% of on road usage
Southeastern US usage
Cost and treadlife should be considered
http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288865
BF Goodrich A/T 33 34.74%
BF Goodrich M/T 29 30.53%
Goodyear A/T 0 0%
Goodyear M/T 14 14.74%
Super Swamper TSL 4 4.21%
Super Swamper SSR 4 4.21%
Super Swamper TRXUS 5 5.26%
Super Swamper BOOGER 3 3.16%
Kumo Venture M/T 0 0%
Bridgestone Dueler A/T 0 0%
Dunlop Mud Rover 0 0%
Dick Cepek Fun Country Kevlar 3 3.12%
I wasexpecting to see those BOOGERS do better than that - figured them for a top pick!
This is for 90% on road usage. 90% on road is probably about average to above average on road usage for most SUV's. I think this would be a decent gauge for people wanting tires for SUV's which will be driven mostly on roads.
But good info regardless. No secret that BFG dominates off road sales. But the new Goodyear Wrangler MT/R is excellent.
Any recommendations for cost effective tires assuming:
- Average driving (city/highway)
- Nanny mobile
- No. Virginia area (snow handling not critical)
- Dry/wet traction important.
Thanks!
Pete
Then I checked out of curiousity what Sam's club would have for my other car - 2002 TL-S. Again, a bunch of Goodyears at high prices.
Don't forget TireRack's shipping charge, ~$40.
bretfraz: What do you think of the owners' survey results on TireRack?
They had a lot to do with my interest in the Yokos, which rated higher than the Michelins in most categories.
While doing my shopping at local dealers last week, one tire store manager showed me various tires in the store room (nice guy), and told me that the better snow traction comes from the tires that have the diagonal, or offset, grooves or recesses (for want of a better word - I forget what term he used as he was pointing them out to me), as opposed to tires that have the more straight grooves or recesses, continuous around the tire (which I think may be better for rain traction, along with lots of sipes).
Feedback, anyone?
...But good info regardless. No secret that BFG dominates off road sales. But the new Goodyear Wrangler MT/R is excellent."
I thought it said 90% on road usage. That doesn't sound biased towards off road traction, and certainly not "extremely biased towards off road traction". That sounds like most typical SUV's I know and see.
And I didn't see too many pavement-type tires in the voting selection either. Mostly M/T and A/T tires.
For people who are 100% clueless about tires and are afraid/skeptical of tire retailers, the surveys are somewhat helpful.
And I didn't see too many pavement-type tires in the voting selection either. Mostly M/T and A/T tires."
I again refer to the 90% on road part. I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?
Bret - I understand and agree with your point about the survey thing. For people that are visiting this board and looking for how to start out a tire purchase, how would you (or anybody else for that matter) suggest people start out that process. I'm assuming that asking mechanics, friends, relatives, etc. is one way, but what else?
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Tire shopping for those who aren't into tires isn't as easy as shopping for other consumer items. One big reason is that everyone's application is slightly different. What works for one person may not work for another. Sure, all tires do the basics but being that tires are your #1 safety item, their performance should be seriously considered.
Publications like Consumer Reports are always helpful. Everyone knows their reputation and they do an excellent job of testing. Magazine articles also help a lot; many auto magazines publish tire tests and comparos. I get a lot of my info from the mfr websites and literature. Marketing directives aside, the mfr is still the best place to get detailed info on a specific tire as they are the only ones who know the design and engineering parameters.
Consumer-derived info can also be helpful to add a little perspective. The surveys on Tire Rack, e-pinions, and other places can help refine choices. Keep in mind that the vast majority of consumers cannot accurately compare tires so take their comments with a grain of salt, maybe less.
Finally, your local tire dealer can be very helpful. Like any salesperson, they want a satisfied customer who will come back and send their friends. And some will steer you towards a tire that maximizes their profit margins. As long as that tire is the best for you, no problem. But it sure helps to do some research in advance just like any other consumer product.
Hope this helps.
Sorry if it came across any other way.
Also, hitting refresh after posting causes the message to post again as you must have noticed by now!
I am considering them myself for the next time around.
Anonymous, I also didn't mean anything ill spirited. It's sometimes difficult to read somebody's intentions through a keyboard.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Might help to run a search for some such thing.
Hope this helps.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Usually seems to bite us worse on chat days....
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
NTW rotated the tires last week and noticed 'feathering' on the two tires that had just come off the front. The vibration is not noticeable now that those tires on the back.
Any thoughts or comments? Is NTW correct that 1000 miles of driving those feathered tires on the back will 'round them out' again??
Thanks
Ken
Frequent rotations will help balance the tires so you can get the max mileage out of them but they'll never be like new.
Hopefully you fixed the root cause as that is what caused the feathering in the first place.
Sorry, wish I had better news.
If you are going to get snow tires anyhow, you might as well bypass the Dunlop SP A2's as they are all season. The Sumitomo HTR 200 http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR+200&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=06HR4HTR200 is a 3 season tire which rates as good as or better than those in all but the snow category, for a lot less money.
Hmmm...I'm not sure how much it matters in this context, but...typical SUV user does 10% of his/her mileage off road??? I think typical SUV user amount is zero. Even car manufacturers admit that only about 10% of SUVs ever go off road. Are we talking serious off roading like you need an SUV for? Or dirt/gravel, etc?
I ask because, although that poll and the discussion around it is probably very useful for off roaders, it doesn't have much relevance to the majority of SUVers (like me) that never do serious off roading (the closest I get is a fire road).
The biggest specific concern for me on this vehicle is how quickly my tires wear, which must be due to the heaviness of the vehicle (I have a 2001 Pathfinder with dunlop GrandTreks). Has there been any discussion of SUV tires with this in mind? Please let me know and I'll look for it. Thanks.
These are simply the best tires I have ever come across for this vehicle.
Sorry, had to let that out :-)
I said typical. I imagine many do more (50%-95%) offroad, but not your TYPICAL suv owner.
"....Are we talking serious off roading like you need an SUV for? Or dirt/gravel, etc?..."
No, this poll was DEFINITELY NOT for serious off roading. It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road. The serious guys get boggers, MT's, or other similar "aggressive" type tires.
"...it doesn't have much relevance to the majority of SUVers (like me) that never do serious off roading (the closest I get is a fire road)."
It is for people who do maybe 10% offroad, which is not your serious offroader. It is aimed at 90% on road use suv's. I thought that was pretty clear.
(A fire road is NOT considered offroad. Notice the word "ROAD" in fire ROAD?)
Tire defect? If so I've got to battle Goodyear.
Is it driving style?? I don't drive agressively but have been a bit assertive once in a while in off-ramp situations after installing an antisway bar in back. No squeeling tires or anything like that so I'd be surprised if that's the answer.
As for how modern tires handle feathering or cupping, I'll defer to bretfraz. Early radials would never recover to a smooth tread surface.
No need to get testy...I said I "never do serious off roading" and that "the closest I get is a fire road"...so who are you arguing with? In any case, the word "road" in "fire road" is not a terribly descriptive term...I would not take a car on those fire roads.
No, this poll was DEFINITELY NOT for serious off roading. It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road.
Well, we completely disagree about those numbers, but since I'm not trying to re-create other topics here ;-) I'll leave it at that.
However, those are not good choices for someone that only drives on asphalt (which, IMO, is the typical SUV owner).
You make the point:
I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.
Well, the point is that they are NOT "road tires" as in "road/only" tires.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but when someone comes here to see about SUV tires and reads "these are good for the typical SUV owner", I think this is misleading.
So, that list/survey is good for those that do some offroading, fine. Has there been any discussion here about SUV road/only tires?
"...I would not take a car on those fire roads."
I have taken my Corolla, then my Civic, and my wife's Jetta on them. I bought the SUV for when I go off of these roads and need more clearance.
"No, this poll was DEFINITELY NOT for serious off roading. It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road.
Well, we completely disagree about those numbers,"
What numbers? That is it. That was(is) what the poll was(is) about.
"However, those are not good choices for someone that only drives on asphalt (which, IMO, is the typical SUV owner)."
Which is why they are called AT (All Terrain) tires.
"You make the point:
I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.
Well, the point is that they are NOT "road tires" as in "road/only" tires."
You seem to be missing it (the point). Reread it.
"I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but when someone comes here to see about SUV tires and reads "these are good for the typical SUV owner", I think this is misleading."
If your typical SUV owner does not do that kind of driving, maybe. Then the point becomes "Why have an SUV?".
"So, that list/survey is good for those that do some offroading, fine. Has there been any discussion here about SUV road/only tires?"
I think so. You'll have to read back into previous posts.
What are the differences, if any?
I have taken my Corolla, then my Civic, and my wife's Jetta on them. I bought the SUV for when I go off of these roads and need more clearance.
There's no national standard for fire roads ;-) I'm sure there are some that you could drive a Corolla on, but on the ones I drive on, it wouldn't last 50 feet without frequent bottoming out with serious damage. And the grade would leave the tranny smoking. Point is, "fire road" doesn't define much, but I would not call it serious off roading and the ones I'm on need an SUV but not an A/T tire.
on my disagreeing with some numbers:
What numbers? That is it. That was(is) what the poll was(is) about.
This number:
It was for daily drivers who do maybe 10% off road.
IMO, 90% of SUV drivers never go off road...not dirt or gravel, but off road to the point you need an SUV or PU. I disagree about the 10%.
on missing your point:
You seem to be missing it (the point). Reread it.
Ok, I'll re-read it:
I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.
I said they were not appropriate for road/only. AT tires are for road/off road mixed use, not road/only use. Yes, you could use them but they would be a poor choice. Are you disagreeing with this?
If your typical SUV owner does not do that kind of driving, maybe. Then the point becomes "Why have an SUV?".
Hmmm...what a good point. Maybe we should start a topic on that...wait, no...we already do ;-)
Point is, most SUV owners don't have "off roading" as a requirement, so they don't need A/T tires...how many SUVs come equipped with them?
I think so. You'll have to read back into previous posts.
Ok, thanks...I'll look back...as I said, I'm kinda unhappy with the wear on my Grandtreks (standard on PFs). I'm at about 20K now and I'll need new by 25k or 30k.
IMO tires are quite subjective once you get over the specs, tread pattern, rubber compound, etc. unless you're in the tire business. The tire rack surveys are a good read since they supposedly come from users. The car mag evals are also good since they subject the tires to a bit more than daily drivers do. After, the price range and type it boils down to your driving habits, car condition, environment, and your "feel". To each their own.
Like a stereo and speakers, it boils down to your ear. Good luck!