Tires, tires, tires

kimo9 · December 2003

Well, I went ahead and got the craftsman torque wrench. I'm sure it will be fine although I'd have taken the Snap-On if money was not a concern.

But, now I'm trying to find out the lug nut size on my Odyssey. Someone told me they were 13/16, but I know Honda is metric so that can't be right. I took out a 17mm (too small) and 19mm socket (rocks a hair when on nut). I'm thinking its 18mm.

Any thoughts on this? Don't want to strip those nuts.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

Try a 3/4 inch socket.

kimo9 · December 2003

Well, I went ahead and got the craftsman torque wrench. I'm sure it will be fine although I'd have taken the Snap-On if money was not a concern.

But, now I'm trying to find out the lug nut size on my Odyssey. Someone told me they were 13/16, but I know Honda is metric so that can't be right. I took out a 17mm (too small) and 19mm socket (rocks a hair when on nut). I'm thinking its 18mm.

Any thoughts on this? Don't want to strip those nuts.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2003

See post 3247.

chitturi · December 2003

I am looking for new tires for my 2000 Odessey. Can any one suggest good quality tires to replace my old ones?

ecarmack · December 2003

I have had the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T on my Odyssey for about 10,000 miles and have been very pleased with them. So much so that I was going to give the LS-V a shot on my Accord, but I just purchased new wheels, and the LS-V does not come in the somewhat odd size of 215 50 17. So I am going to try the new Yokohama Avid V4s. First time trying Yokohama...we will see how they do. The Turanza LS series is also highly rated on Tirerack, although the survey mileage is still somewhat low. Good luck, Eric

bretfraz · December 2003

There are plenty of posts in here discussing what tires to put on an Odyssey. Its a popular subject. You may want to use the Advanced Search feature to display the posts relative to the subject.

barbjack · December 2003

The OEM tires on my 04 Lexus 330 are not searing well. No cupping or feathering, but just wearing down rather rapidly. At 11000 miles the wear is quite noticible. Anticipate 20000 max before I will need to replace. Any suggestions?
all I can find on the net are the original Goodyears and I dont's want to replace with the same thing. Thanks

pulgo · December 2003

At tirerack they carry Michelins for $ 119. Double the price of your OEM tires but well worth it in my opinion.

q45man · December 2003

OEM tire are selected to wear fast for good wet grip [friction].......the factory knows that most tires can't stand the stress much beyond 20,000 miles [internal wear and tear].......so why take on the liability of having owners have problems.

Tires really should be changed when ABOVE the legal minimum as 25-50% of their wet performance is gone when half worn and the hardening from continued vulcanization.

Tires in the lab are only tested to 8,000 miles!

dmoyer · December 2003

We'll are searching for the RIGHT tires at the right prices. These are some sites I have used. All will sell you tires, and most also provide information and consumer reviews of the tires they sell.

http://www.cardecal.net/new_tires.htm
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/index.jsp
http://www.1010tires.com/
http://www.ustireoutlet.com/
http://www.tiresavings.com/
http://www.vulcantire.com/index.html
http://www.tiretrends.com/catalog2.php3
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/home.jsp

kimo9 · December 2003

.....was hoping to get some input/advice on tire pressure gauges. I've seen the gammet from the $2 model at Walmart to the China-made "professional" dial version for $6 to the "talking" gauge to Snap-on's $90 digital version.

I want something that will last, is of good quality, and will give me a correcting reading over and over.

Thanks.

kimo9 · December 2003

found this surfing the net,.

http://www.valvelock.net/home.htm

pathstar1 · December 2003

Have a look at: lazyfox "Tire gauges" Sep 2, 2003 12:26am. There is a three part test done on most of the available gauges. Bottom line is you can get an accurate digital gauge for around $10 (+ or - 0.5 PSI).

bojack1 · December 2003

Here is another place to look: http://www.accu-gage.com/

kimo9 · December 2003

Found this on a Google Groups board in a discussion on good tire pressure gauges...........

"I checked with my Brother-in-law. He is a production engineer for a
company that makes those huge trash compactors that you see on the
back of trash pick-up trucks. Turns out much of his work is with
welding equipment which requires he work with pneumatic controls a
lot. He knew right away what I needed.

He bought me a high quality 4 1/2 inch round commercial type pressure
gauge (Winters Gauge #Q322 0-60PSI). He pointed out that the gauges
sold to consumers for tire gauges are class B instruments (at best)
with an accuracy 0f 3 percent full scale while the one he got me meets
ANSI/ASME Grade 1A standards (plus or minus 1 percent at any point on
the scale).

The 4 1/2 inch (compared to the 1.5 to 2 inch on tire gauges) scale is
wonderful to read. It has numerical markings every 5 pounds and the
tick marks go down to .5 pounds. The case is made out of 304 stainless
and appears to be very rugged......."

wain · January 2004

bryann · January 2004

i have a 2001 odyssey and replaced the terrible OEM with Toyo proxess tpt and love them. they are great in the rain as well and just drove through about 6 inches of unplowed snow a couple of weeks ago and had no problems. they were $94 a tire and found them to be not only a great deal, but also a great tire. would definitely recommend them.

wale_bate1 · January 2004

Hey gang, looking for current experiences with the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.

I'll be replacing some Potenza 040's on an IS300 wagon. Rims are very likely as well, as I'd like to widen the contact patch a bit.

I'll be looking at 235/40-17 up front on 17x8 SSR GT1s and 255/40-17 behind on 17x9s.

Thanks!

armd · January 2004

Live in the Midwest.

Don't have the space/time for switching to snow tires.

OEM Michelin Synchrones - Garbage in the snow. Vehicle becomes undrivable even in a dusting.

Anyone have experience with the Yokahama Geolandar H/T-S?

donaldm1 · January 2004

LS with Bridgestones, 15,000 miles. I notice a slight pull to the left and had the two fronts switched left to right and pull became a right pull. Anyone had a pull experience? Is it dangerous and how to do tell which tire is at fault?

lobsenza · January 2004

Sounds like a tire pull. I have an 02 Lincoln LS with Bridgestones and have had no problems. You might want to check tire pressure if you haven't already.

capriracer · January 2004

Swapping tires = change in pull direction = tire problem.

The next step is to swap the tires on one side. If the pull changes, then the tire that just went on the back is the culprit. If the pull doesn't change, the one still on the front is the one.

BTW, it is possible to develop a wear pattern in a tire that will cause a pull and after 15,000 miles, this is likely. You may or may not get any consideration at the dealer.

Hope this helps.

squeezedlemon · January 2004

I am looking to replace the OME tires on my '96 Subaru Legacy Outback 2.5 L. I am looking for better hydroplaning resistance than the Michelin XW4 (which in my experience sucked) as I am moving from Boston to Portland, OR where it rains incessantly. Also the ride was pretty bumpy with the OME tires so I am looking for an improvement in that department as well. Snow and gravel capability is an important but lesser consideration. With that in mind Tire Rack points to the Aquatread 3 for meeting the above requirements according to customer surveys and with the longevity of 640 treadwear. They are discounting these tires and I heard from a dealer in my area that they are discontinuing the model. Anyone out there with any knowledge of this tire's performance? My other possibilities are Bridgestone Turanza LS-T, Michelin Harmony and Michelin Hydroedge.

Regards,

Matt

sequoiasoon · January 2004

Check out Nokian WR for both of you. You can do a search for posts in here and snow tire thread. Excellent all around tire. Dry grip is excellent, wet samething and snow outstanding (plus 50k treadlife warranty)the only downfall I have noticed on these is on concrete they "whine" a little more than my old "summer" tires. This is from the extensive siping which is what gives them great wet and snow grip. Blacktop doesn't seem to be an issue so it depends where you drive most. Many friends and family use these year round and claim they'll buy more when these wear out. They have been so impressed with the performance in bad weather that they even replaced tires on their other vehicles WAY ahead of time, just to put these on.

That being said, if I had to drive on I-95 down south where it is all concrete, I'd probably try the Michelin Hydroedge. Long Island and upstate NY, you'll find the Nokians on my car year round.

caperosier · January 2004

A consumer experience.
Michelin Symmetrys wore to the treadwear marks at 27K. Warranty to 65K. The set was rotated only 2x, and should have been rotated at least once more on an AWD. Seemed like premature wear similar to the OEM Bridgestone Duelers.
The original dealer here would not handle it. Said :"too much paperwork."
Another local dealer did. A call to Michelin took care of it, giving me almost 40% credit (much more than expected)for the worn Symmetrys towards a set of Michelin Harmonys (needs: good snow traction, all-season, good treadwear, good hydro planning resist). Michelin now has a bonded solid customer.
Some kind of real 'Customer Service' and response.
So far, the Harmonys work well on snow/ice.

imidazol97 · January 2004

What kind of car were the Symmetrys on?

Rotated at what mileages? 6, 12? 12, 24?
Just curious. Glad Michelin stands behind the
tire. I have them on LeSabre. I like my X-Ones better, but I'm concerned about long wear on the Symmetrys. I'm glad you're sharing your experiences.

squeezedlemon · January 2004

Thanks for steering me to the Nokian WR 2. It sounds like a truly all-weather tire, perhaps a first. However I am concerned that about road noise and ride comfort as I plan on traveling from Boston to Alaska this spring. Will I grow deaf from playing the stereo too loud to drown out the whine? Are they very stiff handling? My current tire is the OEM Michelin XW4, an S rated tire, which compensated adequately for the cars heft but still telegraphed road imperfections noticeably.

Anyone want to weigh in on whether directional tires such as the GY Aquatread 3, Michelin Hydroedge or Nokian WR 2 would wear out prematurely on an AWD 1996 Subaru Legacy Outback? I noticed that the Subaru recommends front to back rotation and not cross rotation in any event.

Drive safely out there,

Matt

pathstar1 · January 2004

Using them on an RX-8 here in Edmonton. They are pretty good traction wise. Haven't noticed any tire noise.

caperosier · January 2004

imidazol97
The Symmetrys were on an AWD 2001 Forester,5-speed.
Rotation was at 8900 then 19500 and 25500....my fault and admitted to the selling dealer and Michelin.
Tirerack's consumer reviews and ratings also show early wear.
I was still impressed with how Michelin handled the warranty---generous.

sequoiasoon · January 2004

The noise level is quieter than the Michelin X-radial on my friends Suburban. We took his truck today and it was a lot more noticeable in his truck on those same concrete sections. I'm one of those that can't stand rattles and strange squeaks etc. (even though my '93 Corolla has 172k on it). I think I was more looking for issues with them originally to see if I wanted them as my summer tires. I had some very quiet Nokian NRH's that were excellent dry and wet tires on the car, but the wife hit some nails one day and punctured 3 tires right by the sidewall. The shop had the WR's in stock and recommended them for great wet traction which is one of my biggest decisions. I've dealt with the same shop for years and they know I'd sacrifice dry performance for better wet grip. I've always found it easier to gain control on dry ground than on wet (obviously). Over 18 years they haven't given me a bad tire recommendation yet. I was comparing overall qualities to the NRH when I put them on. I can't remember now if the "old" tires were the same noise level or not. I think they were about the same but was making notes on the new ones for my decisions. I was also looking to "try" them as possible snow tires for my Sequoia and it was a great opportunity. I had the Nokian Hak 1's on my Explorer that were awesome in the snow and was not sure if I wanted to stick with them or try the WR's. I opted for the hak 1's for the Sequoia for winter mainly because I knew how they were and if I was not happy with the WR as winter tires, I didn't want to be "stuck" with them for 50k of just winter use. I was not worried about snow traction for the Corolla because I have Nokian Hakkapellitta Q's for the car. I left the WR's on this winter to see how they were as a test planning to put the Q on after the first 1-2 snows. We had 2 snowstorms dumping 20 inches in a weekend and was quite impressed. Only issue I had was ground clearance where they didn't plow but still made it through where I had to go. I also did some 85 mph runs in heavy rains and they never lost grip. It's tempting to just leave them on based on how they performed but I have the Q's mounted on rims and they are incredible in snow and ice so if the wife ever gives me 1/2 free they'll go on for the rest of the season. Once it warms up the WR's will go back on. It's great knowing you don't have to switch if you don't want to without sacrificing grip. Once my Q's wear out I might leave the WR's as my winter and try the NRH 2 or the Michelin Hydro edge just because. If I hate either one I'll try something else. The worst that can happen is I hate all the choices and then I'll put the WR's back on for year round use because I know they're great already.

Tire rotation- I've had "directional" tires for most and just got in the habit of doing front to back anyway. Just make sure you get an alignment when you get the new tires and rotate at every oil change if possible (or at least every other pending you oil change schedule)

geoffdgti · January 2004

sequoiasoon writes:
I had the Nokian Hak 1's on my Explorer that were awesome in the snow and was not sure if I wanted to stick with them or try the WR's. I opted for the hak 1's for the Sequoia for winter mainly because I knew how they were and if I was not happy with the WR as winter tires, I didn't want to be "stuck" with them for 50k of just winter use

I run studded Hakkas on my Mountaineer. The road noise is a little much but it turns an unsafe snow car into a safe one. In my opinion, the heavier the car, the more important the tires are.

On a ligher car like a 'Baru, I'd think the Nokian WR would be a great all season tire. I do Hakka Q's and Continentals on my VW for winter/summer and that's overkill.

sequoiasoon · January 2004

I found over the years that most "studded" tires got real noisy and annoying with the pitter patter of the studs hitting the ground. For 99% of my driving I did not need them and actually lost some dry ground traction. Switching to the unstudded versions took care of that issue. Granted the studs helped on ice and real hard pack snow but but the benefits vs. noise and loss of dry grip for most of my driving were not worth it. The studless ice versions (like the hak Q) do real nice for me though.

geoffdgti · January 2004

The SUV goes skiing every weekend. It sees little use midweek. I live somewhat farther north than you do so it's worth it to me to optimize for traction on black ice. I'm willing to deal with the "John Deere" ambiant noise to pick up the added safety margin. All I have to do is turn up the iPOD a little. ;-)

My Hakka Q's worked fine after I had the brain-dead Nokian dealer remount one of the tires to make it rotate in the right direction. The morons mounted them as 3 lefts and a right. It was really noisy with one of the tires running backwards.

sequoiasoon · January 2004

Living further north I can see the benefit. I used to have studded Gislaved's when I travelled between Potsdam NY and Keene NH to visit friends while at college. Most of my travel now is down here with 1 trip per month to Massachusetts just outside of Pittsfield. The Nokians (even the unstudded versions) are so much better than everybody elses "all season" junk.

Either way, you and I have great winter versions of the Nokians, I think squeezedlemon would be real happy with the WR's for the weather he will in most of the time in Portland. They are a true All Weather tire.

p.s. They're forecasting ice cold for here the next couple days and about 4-6 inches of snow. I'm gonna leave the WR's on and make sure I go play before they plow! We had some black ice in the parking lot at work and I was still very impressed with how well these things grip. No problem starting or stopping while other co-workers were sliding away.

ops1 · January 2004

I have to replace the original tires on my 99 Altima (it has 42,000 miles after 5 years). I checked Costco.com and am trying to decide between (i) the lowest priced Michelins which is the Pilot XGT H4 ($97), (ii) the Michelin Hydro Edge ($107), or (iii) Bridgestone Potenza RE910 ($76). All 3 tires are eligible for a $60 rebate as well so the prices seem ok. I have been toying with the idea of getting the lower priced Bridgestones because the car is not used enough to get even close to the Hydro Edge's 85K mile warranty within a reasonable number of years. Any thoughts?

snowman · January 2004

No matter what you buy, you can score better @ tirerack.com

bretfraz · January 2004

It really depends on what you need a tire to do for you. Any of those are fine but all are a bit different.

The Pilot is a performance tire. If you want sharper handling, more responsive steering, and better braking performance, its a good choice. Trade off is, of course, tire wear.

The new HyroEdge looks like a good tire and a sensible choice for cars like your Altima. Good wet weather traction and long tread life are its strengths, obviously. BTW, the 85K thing does not indicate how long the tire will last, just how long Michelin will warranty it for. Just like car batteries that say "84 months". The battery might die in 24 months but the mfr will pro rate the warranty based on the 84. Tires work pretty much the same way (see CAPEROSIER's posts about his Michelins to get an idea of how this works).

The Bridgestone is kind of in between the two Michelins. 60K treadlife warranty, a little sporty, good in the wet, a good overall choice for your needs, especially at that price. It gets my vote.

imidazol97 · January 2004

I've had Michelin after Michelin on cars, replacing the original equipment tire as soon as possible based on wear to get Michelins on. My first Michelins had tubes in them.

The quality in roundness and life pays off. My current XOnes are heading for 100K. They're quiet, grip great in snow without being a noisy rugged tread. I'm in Middle Ohio so snow can be a problem, but not a daily problem as in some more northern areas.

The Hydroedge apparently has replace the XOnes and the Harmony is a step down, but might be what I'd replace them with when they wear down and the car has 150K on it.

Last set of Michelins XH4s wore 110K and I replaced two so I could trade the car. The XH4 was great in snow because of the tread design and were a little hard in the rubber -- they were a high mileage highway tire.

The extra investment will pay off in the long run as long as the tire is what you need for your driving.

sequoiasoon · January 2004

As Bret said all good choices, just depends what you want it to do. I found that going to your local BJ's or Costco was cheaper than Tirerack. The ones by me can order any version of the brands they carry. By the time you get them shipped, then have them mounted and balanced you need to tack on about $30 per tire to the posted Tirerack price. The bonus of going to BJ's or Costco is their price is complete, mounted and balanced with lifetime rotation, balance and flat repair! I asked at BJ's about the Hydroedge for my Corolla, they said they can order it, take a week to get, $88 each.

ops1 · January 2004

Thanks for all your input!

I checked tirerack.com's prices for the Hydroedge. They want $376 for the tires plus about $30 for shipping (and that is without installation, hazard warranty...) vs. Costco's $368 ($428 less $60 rebate) all inclusive except tax. I am not a big fan of Costco, but at least on this one, Costco has tirerack beat.

As far as the Pilot goes, I am less concerned about tread life because they will likely last the 40K or 50K miles (or less)I will put on the car in the next 5 or 6 years anyway. The better handling sounds great, but will the ride be noticeably harsher? What about rain and snow performance relative to the HydroEdge or Bridgestones?

I find the HydroEdge appealing because I live in CT and find that I end up driving in rain and snow more than ever. The cost is about $130 more than the Bridgestones. I am wondering if Michelins are worth it (since I was a kid, my father has been drilling into my head that Michelins are the best tires around) and whether this particular tire for this particular car given my needs is just overkill.

snowman · January 2004

"you need to tack on about $30 per tire to the posted Tirerack price"
That is not true, I paid $5 S+H each tire and $10 mounting balancing and all other little things come with installation @ Cosco. So that make $15 extra.
I understant that tire to tire places have different prices. Costco didn't have my size and brand.

sequoiasoon · January 2004

Read all my above posts about Nokian WR, if you want good snow to go along with the great wet and dry they are excellent. You won't find them at Costco but STS tire and Mallory-Kotzen carry them. Here's the link to Nokian, click on dealer locator then CT. there's a bunch of dealers if you want to see/price them. http://www.nokiantires.com. I've never tried the Hydroedge, they look very appealing for summer but I run dedicated snows in winter. The WR's are listed as "All Weather" and are rated for severe snow by the tire industry guidelines. They happen to come in H speed rated with a 50k tread wear warranty. Just a possible option also. I have my WR's on the Corolla still, snowed 6 inches last night with black ice under it here on the Island. I was able to accelerate nicely, stop quick, and even avoided 3 people that spun out in front of me with no issue. The guy behind me couldn't stop and hit one of them. Nice to experience the added safety. My Nokian Q snows will go on this weekend anyway just for the extra edge they provide.

stever · January 2004

Whatever happened to non-pneumatic tires for passenger cars?

Steve, Host

badgerfan · January 2004

Anyone have any experience yet with BF Goodrich Traction TA tires? BFG just introduced them and claim improved wet/snow and ice traction-of course compared to their own previous generation tires. Prices seem reasonable as well. I am considering eventually replacing the OEM Continentals on my Taurus, which are wearing well and do OK in snow, but have really bad wet traction-very easy to spin my wheels when accelerating on wet pavement. Of course part of the "problem" is the goodly amount of torque available with my DOHC Duratec.

capriracer1 · January 2004

If you are referring to tires that naturally operate without inflation pressure - so called self supporting tires. Haven't heard anything for many years. I suspect that they couldn't make it work.

If you are referring to RunFlat tires. They are available and being supplied on OE some vehicles. The problem is they have limitations that many folks can't live with.

Hope this helps

stever · January 2004

Thanks Capriracer1 - I was thinking of the self-supporting ones.

The Sienna AWD owners suffer a bit of sticker shock when they have to replace a run-flat, but hopefully supply will help the prices to fall.

Steve, Host

kimo9 · January 2004

I've read that tire psi should be checked when the tires are "cold" -- haven't been used for a few hours. I can understand that as the air in the tires would heat up thus increasing the pressure. However, is the opposite also true. As the ambient temperature decreases won't the pressure in the tire down? When it is 5 degrees outside, will this low temp. affect my reading? How cold is too cold? Is there an optimum temperature range at which you can get accurate pressure readings?

imidazol97 · January 2004

The pressure drops 1 pound for every 10 degrees fahrenheit. So if the nominal daily temperature is going to be 25 as it was today, I check my tires when I can and add a pound or two if I'm checking on a nicer day than normal.

You're going to have to pick what's a typical day for your area and check pressures when the tires are cooled. I usually do it just at dusk. I put a pound or two extra in when I'm at the gas station, then check the tires in the evening at home. It's easy to let out a pound if I have them higher than needed.

Best gauge to use? My local tire store buys the stick kind for a dollar or so. They bring a new one into the shop, compare the two or three they use and throw out the one that's off the most.
They like the idea of replacement often rather than spending more on a fancier gauge.

ops1 · January 2004

Nokian WR sounds like a great tire. I have a couple of questions though. Will ride, handling and mileage on dry pavement suffer at all? Also, are they noisier than a typical all-season tire? I would run them year round. The best price I could get for just the tire was from Tire Factory in Michigan ($387.20 for 4 size 195/65/15 tires incl. shipping and no tax collected). Since I will have to spend another $40 to install and $59 for alignment (for a total of $492), I am inclined to go with Town Fair Tire (who does not stock them but will get them for me in a day) who will charge $521 for the tires, mounting and alignment (as well as free rotations every 5,000 miles). Do these prices sound like they are in the ballpark (all in, they are about $40 to $70 more than the Michelins)?

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