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Comments
15K does not involve the diffys IIRC.
-mike
I do remember the severe conditions schedule calls for TRANNY fluid replacement every 20K! As compared with NEVER for the regular schedule...
Whether the oil and LSD additive in the rear can subsequently go 30k miles is no doubt a judgement call based largely on the severity of service. My take FWIW is that when it doubt do it. It is after all a fairly simple procedure.
Is it worth to wait till the end of the summer for deals on Troopers? Especially, considering that Accsender is supposed to start selling in Oct-Nov? I can wait, but I'm a bit concerned that there're not many Troopers are left on lots and not sure if any dealer will get more of them, especially since it's their last year in the US and they are hot selling here. I can also consider buying a left-over 2001, but can't find any left. All isuzu dealers I visited have just a few 2002 troopers (guess didn't order many of them too), only one dealer has a load of them back in December, and from what I see, it doesn't look like he's able to sell many so far.
Do you think it would be worth to wait to see when they start falling in price? What would be a good deal on LS or S with TOD? Is $24K for LS or $19K for S with auto/TOD is doable? Or am I on crack?
TIA,
-albertr
-mike
Without a rebate, the 2002 Troopers will not be selling as cheaply as the past few model years, when $2-4k rebates were the norm.
paisan's numbers seem pretty reasonable.
-mike
-mike
As much as I like Trooper, I still think that $23 for S w/ AT/TOD is on *HIGH* side. Even without taking into consideration that Isuzu is withdrawing it from the US market, it's still about the same as what I've paid for Explorer 4x4 XLT back in 98. And options-wise that Explorer looks more like LS, not base S model.
I guess, I'd better wait till summer to see what happens with Trooper sales. If it will fall to the $19-$20 range, it would be my next SUV.
Thanks,
-albertr
I've driven both. The Trooper is a much better vehicle. Tighter, smoother, quieter, roomier, better off road (one of the best), better on road, better built.
You can't get any SUV for less than $30K in the large-mid-size class. I dunno what guy gave away the exploder so cheap.
-mike
I test-drove a 2002 S Trooper, and while it was a quick ride (didn't have much time that day), I *mostly* like it. Mostly is the word here. While I think it's a great vehicle, nothing is perfect. If you are curious what I didn't like about Trooper in particular, it's: - lack of roof rack, limited rear visibility because of split rear door and mounted spare tire (try to park in reverse), again split rear door in my opinion is not as useful as lift gate (can't leave it open to accomodate oversized load).
But my point was not it, what I was meant to say is that a new Explorer XLT for $24 back in 98 had much more options than base S model of Trooper. In partucular I would miss a 8-way power adjustible front seats and A/C and sound control for rear seats. Other things missing like running boards and trailer hitch could be after-market installed on S, but would add to the cost too.
As far reliability goes, isuzu's warranty is great! I've heard that many Troopers are quite reliable. However, my Explorer has some 63K trouble-free miles on it and it never fails me. The only thing that was replaced is manifold intake gasket, and it was covered by warranty.
I like Trooper and I think my best option would be to wait till the end of the summer and see if any better deals come up by that time.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions!
-albertr
You may recall I am the Trooper owner who recently
hit 100,000 on my 96 Trooper and posted a website with fairly detailed maintenance costs, etc.
Of course I am going to say that I think the Trooper is a much better value than the Explorer. My Trooper was purchased for around $24k with a 7500 off MSRP deal. It is a $30k Trooper S PEP, and even at close to $30k it is a compelling product.
After 5 years and 100,000 miles the interior still looks great, no sags, cracks, rattles, etc. I do not have a problem with the Spare location, and find the 60/40 split has merits and shortcomings.
Also, when you drive a Trooper you have something a little different. That is one of the aspects I enjoyed versus the 4Runners or Explorers that are so common.
Similar not quite as good as above. See Jason or Drew. Still had LS or 2 in stock. Bit of of drive from, Central NJ but, not many other dealers were willing to negotiate. Searched NJ, PA, DE, MD, VA. Rumor was that the stock out there now is all thats left.
This my second Trooper. First one 89 LS purchased new, only lasted 221K miles. Rebuilt engine @ 160K and transmission quit.
The one thing I like in LS over S is the the arm rest. Visibilty great, got used to the rear. And heated cloth seats are a necessary luxury.
The lack of a lift gate or rear opening glass is a flaw of the 70/30 doors. But then again I don't have to lean over a lift gate...but then again that 70 door with the spare can be heavy especially when pointed up a hill.
Personally I hate stock roof-racks. They have low load limits and can rarely accomodate two bikes a kayak and a canoe all at the same time. I do understand though how it sucks that it isn't an option. Thanks GM
Running boards??? who needs'em!!!
If in 1998 I bought goods or services for $24000,
in 2002 the same goods or services would cost $26576.69 (http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/economy/calc/cpihome.html)
No A/C or audio control for rear seats. While audio controls would be fairly easy to add-on, A/C just wouldn't be feasable.
I'm curious as to what your needs are. Seating for 7 or is 5 fine. Off-road ability or street ability. Reliability or shopability. Easy cargo or 10 foot pipe hauling. Let us know what you need most (A/C for rear passengers...) and we can help you more.
The rear tire isn't a problem for most Trooper drivers since they are above average intelligence and can actually turn around and look at where they are parking, as for the 70/30 doors, if the 70 section had the window that would go down into the door it would solve that problem. And for luxo, lets see Largest OEM moonroof of ANY SUV produced. In '92 it was the first SUV to have power retracting side-view mirrors. Auto-climate control std. 6-disc std, 8 way driver and 4-way passenger seats. The only VARIABLE heated seats (not just high and low), more cubic feet of storage than the explorer (by a lot). No need for fancy towing packages, slap a hitch on and go.
As for roof racks, I have found no need for one on my truck, not to mention all roof mounted stuff on any US sold SUV is rated at no more than 150lbs, maybe 200 on excursion/suburban. Thanks to lawyers.
And the "63K miles w/o a problem" doesn't impress me at all. We have guys on here with 00s that are turning 50K, and some people with 94s with 200K. Reliability of explorers is horrible and all your fancy stuff does you no good if it's sitting in a dealer's garage bay!
-mike
A 1998 Explorer XLT 4x4 for $23k would have been a great deal...on an Explorer. However, I can't imagine this price was widely attainable, as the average MSRP on that truck was probably around $27-28k and I don't believe Ford was discounting 'em as much as Isuzu was the Trooper.
Yes, the Trooper lacks some of the comfort/convenience features that many of the other SUVs now have, such as rear air and radio controls, additional power points, etc. This is an unfortunate drawback (to some, including me, but not to many of the others here) of the Trooper not being significantly redesigned since the 1992 model year. However, things such as running boards, roof rack, etc. are easily installed aftermarket at better quality and less money than factory- or dealer-installed.
Personally, bulletproof reliability, huge cargo and passenger room, and other obvious Trooper pluses far outweigh the extra doodads that are available on other SUVs but not on Trooper.
If the Trooper is not right for you, I can understand. But you owe it to yourself to be very clear on what your reasons are.
-mike
As you can see from the comments from this message board Trooper owners are very defensive of their vehicles and especially their logic/reasoning behind the purchase of their vehicles. Please do not be offended by their comments, it goes with the vehicle. You will probably discover that once you purchase a Trooper that you will have a spiritual experience and will worship that vehicle for all the days of your life. I have noticed that Subaru owners, Ford Powerstroke owners, and Dodge Cummins owners also have this "spiritual" experience.
A Ford Explorer is not a Trooper and a Trooper is not a Ford Explorer. In my personal opinion, I believe the Isuzu Trooper was designed from primarily a utilitarian and reliability approach with luxuries and amenities playing a secondary role, while other SUV's have been designed primarily from a luxuries/amenities/looks approach with utility and reliability playing a secondary role. Your Explorer is only a few years old with relatively low miles. Your desire to purchase the Trooper is based on cost/warranty considering your posts. You will probably need to wait and analyze the market a few more months, however, I do not believe that the price will go up.
You should be able to find a dealer that will work with you and inform you of the rate at which Trooper supply is being replenished and sold. I can simply say that I have enjoyed my 99 Trooper and would probably purchase a 2002 LS 4wd if the price went below $23k....we'll see.
Or am I just neurotic? :0)
-mike
-mike
Aside from that, I thought the major factor that placed stress or wear on the transmission was the engine, not the weight of the vehicle. I'm a novice here, but I have heard several times over the years that a certain transmission couldn't be used with an engine because the engine had too much torque.
The Trooper's max torque is 230 lb-ft, which isn't a whole lot more than vehicles like the Catera (roughly 200 lb-ft with the previous 3.0L; probably more with the new 3.2L).
Overall, I'm not worried about the transmission. To me, that GM puts this tranny in many vehicles is a good thing-- if it's good enough to go in all of these different vehicles, it must be a durable and/or versatile unit. On the other hand, you could argue that GM is simply squeezing extra mileage out of the trans by using it in so many different applications, and that it may not be well-suited for some of those vehicles.
Blue: How is the Kia doing? I saw one today on my way to work out the window of the bus and thought to ask you about yours.
-mike
Overall, you make some minor compromises in comfort/convenience features in exchange for a van that costs a LOT less than the competition. It's a compromise that I feel is well worth making.
My real feelings are, back in 1996 when I made my purchase, the Trooper was (IMO) a way better value than the same year Exploder.
Buying a Trooper today, I think one has to consider the fact that they are buying mostly 8+ year old technology.
Granted it is very robust old technology.
I would hold off, as I have said before, I think the next generation of SUV's are going to be very impressive. They likely will seat more, get better mileage, run cleaner, etc.
If you really need off roading capability, then go with the Trooper. If you are like the other 99% of SUV buyers, you may want to wait for the next gen's.
1. a 31k truck for 24.3k
2. 56k trouble free miles (so far)
3. a very tight vehicle all around
4. My only problem is that when I am ready there will not be any new ones to buy (insert teardrop)
I guess I'll have to buy a used one on Ebay, but that's OK because the general public could care less and doesn't want them. This will mean reasonable prices on used. However, I guess parts will go through the roof once the importation of Troopers ceases. Maybe there will be another value as good as the Trooper, but for the life of me I can't figure it out at this point in time. Cheers! to all.
-mike
One of the great features of the transmission is that it will lock the torque converter in both 3rd and 4th gear. With a solid lock, there is no fluid slippage and the transmission will not overheat. Very few other transmissions have this feature.
Regards,
Tom
The problem with the Overlander brackets is that they seem to be designed to stay on permanently and would look crappy without the basket or crossbars attached. There's a company that sells several styles of OEM racks, but they have to be screwed through the sheetmetal and don't look strong. Does anybody know of any other options?
-mike
-mike
..
One possible solution: Get a set and a half of the Overlander brackets to fit all six mounting positions. Then have a Thule or Yakima steel bar welded to the brackets to create a front to back aerodynamic smooth looking roof rack rail. Make cross bars out of similar Thule or Yakima compatible bars and get a machine shop to make some brackets that have 2 way adjustability to allow the cross bars to slide fron to back. Problem 1. The Thule and Yakima bars are plastic coated - so no welding, solution 1 make a slide inside the bar bracket and bolt it on. Problem 2 OverLander brackets are hardenned so they are difficult to drill, use carbide bits.
Has anyone thought of using the Rhino coating spray on up to 1/4 inch thick poly-something non-slip dent-resistant stuff? This is the coating used in pickup truck beds. I figure I could tie down stuff (like kids bikes and strollers or luggage) directly on top between my fixed Overlander/Thule cross bars just as if I had an expedition rack, only without the expedition rack. It would be lower to the roof for lowest center of gravity. The coating would provide some sound and thermal insulation. It comes in any color, they can match my Trooper's color.
..
Any drawbacks? This stuff cannot be removed once it is applied.
Thank You
boxtrooper
-mike
Thank You
boxtrooper