Isuzu Trooper

bstone3 · February 2002

2001 LS coming up on 15 K miles. The manual indicates that both differentials and transfer case need to be changed and something about a propellar shaft needing lubed. Differentials at 15K - for real? Does anyone have a price estimate for this work?.. Thanks

dielectric7bb · February 2002

uses the same tranny but different gear ratios, and probably different shift points as well as torque converter. Suprising huh

paisan · February 2002

Here is a link. Also the Z3 uses the same tranny. Not sure of the ratios or TC, but here is the link http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/4l30_main.htm

15K does not involve the diffys IIRC.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

Even if the owners manual recommends replacement of differential fluid at 15,000 miles, I wouldn't do it. I waited until about 50,000 miles on our Trooper. Our 98 Trooper does not go off-road and we basically never use 4WD Low range. I guess if your Trooper sees more severe use than that, then maybe a more frequent fluid change interval is advisable. But after 15,000 miles? That's awfully early.

sdc2 · February 2002

The regular maintenance schedule for my 99 calls for diff fluid replacement at 15K, 30K, and every 30K after that. The severe conditions schedule is more stringent than that, but I don't recall what it says.

I do remember the severe conditions schedule calls for TRANNY fluid replacement every 20K! As compared with NEVER for the regular schedule...

breakor · February 2002

The gear oil should be able to last longer than 15k miles. However, I think the first service is scheduled that early to flush out any leftover manufacturing debris.

Whether the oil and LSD additive in the rear can subsequently go 30k miles is no doubt a judgement call based largely on the severity of service. My take FWIW is that when it doubt do it. It is after all a fairly simple procedure.

albertr · February 2002

I'm looking for a second SUV (I have explorer 4x4), and just wondering what would be a good price for Trooper 4x4. I would consider either LS or S with auto/TOD. I need to get it by the end of the summer, or maybe Sept-Oct, so no hurry here. Live in central NJ, but can look as far as NY/PA for a good deal.

Is it worth to wait till the end of the summer for deals on Troopers? Especially, considering that Accsender is supposed to start selling in Oct-Nov? I can wait, but I'm a bit concerned that there're not many Troopers are left on lots and not sure if any dealer will get more of them, especially since it's their last year in the US and they are hot selling here. I can also consider buying a left-over 2001, but can't find any left. All isuzu dealers I visited have just a few 2002 troopers (guess didn't order many of them too), only one dealer has a load of them back in December, and from what I see, it doesn't look like he's able to sell many so far.

Do you think it would be worth to wait to see when they start falling in price? What would be a good deal on LS or S with TOD? Is $24K for LS or $19K for S with auto/TOD is doable? Or am I on crack?
TIA,
-albertr

paisan · February 2002

Mark @ SI Subaru/Isuzu. He is my salesman and a good friend. Most dealers are not stocking any 2002 Troopers, they will all be an order by order basis. But he'll cut you a good deal on one. I'd say 25.5K for an LS and 23K for the S is about what you'll get.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

Looking at a couple web sites (Edmunds and Intellichoice), it looks like there are currently no rebates on 2002 Troopers. Perhaps this is because Isuzu is offering 0% APR up to 60 months or 2.9% APR for 72 months. In the past, Isuzu has offered a rebate OR great financing, but right now they appear to be offering only the great financing.

Without a rebate, the 2002 Troopers will not be selling as cheaply as the past few model years, when $2-4k rebates were the norm.

paisan's numbers seem pretty reasonable.

paisan · February 2002

I think they still have the 4K rebate but it's a factory to dealer incentive in liue of the financing so dealers *can* try to sell it to you w/o any rebate. I'll check with my buddy and let you know if the 4K is on 2002 troops.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

I would expect the rebate still to be in effect for 2002 model year. However, I seem to remember that the factory-to-dealer rebate was still shown on various web sites. Since I saw no evidence of the rebate on a couple web sites, that's why I figured it was not in effect right now. Your salesman buddy will obviously know for sure.

paisan · February 2002

$1500 Factory to Dealer Incentives.

-mike

albertr · February 2002

for checking it and valuable info!

As much as I like Trooper, I still think that $23 for S w/ AT/TOD is on *HIGH* side. Even without taking into consideration that Isuzu is withdrawing it from the US market, it's still about the same as what I've paid for Explorer 4x4 XLT back in 98. And options-wise that Explorer looks more like LS, not base S model.

I guess, I'd better wait till summer to see what happens with Trooper sales. If it will fall to the $19-$20 range, it would be my next SUV.
Thanks,
-albertr

tkevinblanc · February 2002

Albertr, I think you are overlooking some things. Have you driven a Trooper and compared it to your Explorer? Have you looked at the repair records? Have you looked at the price of a new Explorer? They're what, $30K reasonably equipped?

I've driven both. The Trooper is a much better vehicle. Tighter, smoother, quieter, roomier, better off road (one of the best), better on road, better built.

keepontroopin · February 2002

Let him go! It is a lost cause.

paisan · February 2002

The Explorer for one is much smaller.

You can't get any SUV for less than $30K in the large-mid-size class. I dunno what guy gave away the exploder so cheap.

-mike

albertr · February 2002

Thank you all for information and suggestions on this board! I really like Trooper, and don;'t want to start a flame war here, especially a silly one like Trooper vs. Explorer. That was never been my intention.

I test-drove a 2002 S Trooper, and while it was a quick ride (didn't have much time that day), I *mostly* like it. Mostly is the word here. While I think it's a great vehicle, nothing is perfect. If you are curious what I didn't like about Trooper in particular, it's: - lack of roof rack, limited rear visibility because of split rear door and mounted spare tire (try to park in reverse), again split rear door in my opinion is not as useful as lift gate (can't leave it open to accomodate oversized load).

But my point was not it, what I was meant to say is that a new Explorer XLT for $24 back in 98 had much more options than base S model of Trooper. In partucular I would miss a 8-way power adjustible front seats and A/C and sound control for rear seats. Other things missing like running boards and trailer hitch could be after-market installed on S, but would add to the cost too.

As far reliability goes, isuzu's warranty is great! I've heard that many Troopers are quite reliable. However, my Explorer has some 63K trouble-free miles on it and it never fails me. The only thing that was replaced is manifold intake gasket, and it was covered by warranty.

I like Trooper and I think my best option would be to wait till the end of the summer and see if any better deals come up by that time.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions!
-albertr

schulhof · February 2002

Just when I try to get out of this Town Hall, you drag me back in!!!

You may recall I am the Trooper owner who recently
hit 100,000 on my 96 Trooper and posted a website with fairly detailed maintenance costs, etc.

Of course I am going to say that I think the Trooper is a much better value than the Explorer. My Trooper was purchased for around $24k with a 7500 off MSRP deal. It is a $30k Trooper S PEP, and even at close to $30k it is a compelling product.

After 5 years and 100,000 miles the interior still looks great, no sags, cracks, rattles, etc. I do not have a problem with the Spare location, and find the 60/40 split has merits and shortcomings.

Also, when you drive a Trooper you have something a little different. That is one of the aspects I enjoyed versus the 4Runners or Explorers that are so common.

flyinlow · February 2002

Yes, there are no "published" rebates on Troopers, but they are there and are more than $1500. We bought my wife's LS about a month ago from the Knoxville dealer, who has (and still is) running ads every week for $6000 REBATE. They will happily give $6k off MSRP, but we did a little better: slightly more than $4k below invoice. Hardly any haggling at all. It may be different for others since we had no tradein and didn't use them for financing. If you're trading or want 0% don't expect it to be as simple. My guess is that the 2002s may run out before the Blazers (oops--Ascenders) show up.

psheward · February 2002

Purchased '02 LS from Criswell in Annapolis, MD.
Similar not quite as good as above. See Jason or Drew. Still had LS or 2 in stock. Bit of of drive from, Central NJ but, not many other dealers were willing to negotiate. Searched NJ, PA, DE, MD, VA. Rumor was that the stock out there now is all thats left.
This my second Trooper. First one 89 LS purchased new, only lasted 221K miles. Rebuilt engine @ 160K and transmission quit.
The one thing I like in LS over S is the the arm rest. Visibilty great, got used to the rear. And heated cloth seats are a necessary luxury.

dielectric7bb · February 2002

Trooper in 'park in reverse' is fine for me. I know where my vehicle is and its size. If I wanted easy parking I would buy a mini.

The lack of a lift gate or rear opening glass is a flaw of the 70/30 doors. But then again I don't have to lean over a lift gate...but then again that 70 door with the spare can be heavy especially when pointed up a hill.

Personally I hate stock roof-racks. They have low load limits and can rarely accomodate two bikes a kayak and a canoe all at the same time. I do understand though how it sucks that it isn't an option. Thanks GM

Running boards??? who needs'em!!!

If in 1998 I bought goods or services for $24000,
in 2002 the same goods or services would cost $26576.69 (http://woodrow.mpls.frb.fed.us/economy/calc/cpihome.html)

No A/C or audio control for rear seats. While audio controls would be fairly easy to add-on, A/C just wouldn't be feasable.

I'm curious as to what your needs are. Seating for 7 or is 5 fine. Off-road ability or street ability. Reliability or shopability. Easy cargo or 10 foot pipe hauling. Let us know what you need most (A/C for rear passengers...) and we can help you more.

paisan · February 2002

The rear A/C and radio controls signal that the Trooper is definitely not the vehicle for you. You aren't shopping an SUV you are shopping an Luxo-mobile. Running boards? you mean those aluminum things that break if anyone but a waife stands on them? At the last auto-show, my buddy and I both 250lbs each both stood on the explorer side steps and nearly broke em off. Good old Ford Quality I guess.

The rear tire isn't a problem for most Trooper drivers since they are above average intelligence and can actually turn around and look at where they are parking, as for the 70/30 doors, if the 70 section had the window that would go down into the door it would solve that problem. And for luxo, lets see Largest OEM moonroof of ANY SUV produced. In '92 it was the first SUV to have power retracting side-view mirrors. Auto-climate control std. 6-disc std, 8 way driver and 4-way passenger seats. The only VARIABLE heated seats (not just high and low), more cubic feet of storage than the explorer (by a lot). No need for fancy towing packages, slap a hitch on and go.

As for roof racks, I have found no need for one on my truck, not to mention all roof mounted stuff on any US sold SUV is rated at no more than 150lbs, maybe 200 on excursion/suburban. Thanks to lawyers.

And the "63K miles w/o a problem" doesn't impress me at all. We have guys on here with 00s that are turning 50K, and some people with 94s with 200K. Reliability of explorers is horrible and all your fancy stuff does you no good if it's sitting in a dealer's garage bay!

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

It's been a couple years, but at one point I don't think there were more than a handful of people in the USA who knew more about Explorer features/options/prices than me (it was my job to test the "Build Your Own" portion of Ford Motor's various web sites, and Explorer was one of my vehicles). My recollection is that the base Explorer XLT was not quite as well-equipped as the "base" Trooper S. I could be wrong, though. Many things on the XLT were optional, and loading one up with options easily pushed its MSRP past $29-30k.

A 1998 Explorer XLT 4x4 for $23k would have been a great deal...on an Explorer. However, I can't imagine this price was widely attainable, as the average MSRP on that truck was probably around $27-28k and I don't believe Ford was discounting 'em as much as Isuzu was the Trooper.

Yes, the Trooper lacks some of the comfort/convenience features that many of the other SUVs now have, such as rear air and radio controls, additional power points, etc. This is an unfortunate drawback (to some, including me, but not to many of the others here) of the Trooper not being significantly redesigned since the 1992 model year. However, things such as running boards, roof rack, etc. are easily installed aftermarket at better quality and less money than factory- or dealer-installed.

Personally, bulletproof reliability, huge cargo and passenger room, and other obvious Trooper pluses far outweigh the extra doodads that are available on other SUVs but not on Trooper.

If the Trooper is not right for you, I can understand. But you owe it to yourself to be very clear on what your reasons are.

bluedevils · February 2002

is this and the financing an "either/or" proposition?

paisan · February 2002

I'd think it would be an either-or scenario, but I'll verify next time I talk to my buddy.

-mike

cknott · February 2002

Albertr,

As you can see from the comments from this message board Trooper owners are very defensive of their vehicles and especially their logic/reasoning behind the purchase of their vehicles. Please do not be offended by their comments, it goes with the vehicle. You will probably discover that once you purchase a Trooper that you will have a spiritual experience and will worship that vehicle for all the days of your life. I have noticed that Subaru owners, Ford Powerstroke owners, and Dodge Cummins owners also have this "spiritual" experience.
A Ford Explorer is not a Trooper and a Trooper is not a Ford Explorer. In my personal opinion, I believe the Isuzu Trooper was designed from primarily a utilitarian and reliability approach with luxuries and amenities playing a secondary role, while other SUV's have been designed primarily from a luxuries/amenities/looks approach with utility and reliability playing a secondary role. Your Explorer is only a few years old with relatively low miles. Your desire to purchase the Trooper is based on cost/warranty considering your posts. You will probably need to wait and analyze the market a few more months, however, I do not believe that the price will go up.
You should be able to find a dealer that will work with you and inform you of the rate at which Trooper supply is being replenished and sold. I can simply say that I have enjoyed my 99 Trooper and would probably purchase a 2002 LS 4wd if the price went below $23k....we'll see.

tkevinblanc · February 2002

Okay, since Paisan's post about the tranny in the Trooper being the same one in the Catera, I've been fretting. I looked over the link he included, and it looks like the tranny is kind of a lightweight. I mean, the other vehicles that use it aren't in the same weight class as the Trooper. Should I really consider pulling a #3000 trailer?

Or am I just neurotic? :0)

paisan · February 2002

With my '97 Rodeo I towed 5000lbs semi-regularly w/o issue (same tranny) and it had not a problem in 120K miles. Same goes for my trooper, I will regularly be towing 5000+ lbs behind it this spring/summer/fall for auto-x season and don't anticipate any problems. I regularly tow my 17' boat weighing in at around 3000+ mark and haven't had any issues. Also the tranny is one of the strong points on the isuzus, not may tranny failures to my knowledge.

-mike

paisan · February 2002

Yep, you are right, I think the Trooper was built with reliability/utility first and ameneties 2nd. And visa-versa on the Explorer, so the purchaser needs to decide what he wants before making a decision as to which vehicle to pursue.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

Very well put. Your observation is very astute, and you explained it quite well. Most vehicles do not share the same priorities as the Trooper. That makes the Trooper a great choice for those consumers who share the same priorities, and a poor choice for those consumers who don't.

bluedevils · February 2002

First, I've heard several good things over the years about the current Trooper transmission. It seems to have a good reputation as a very solid, reliable, long-lasting unit.

Aside from that, I thought the major factor that placed stress or wear on the transmission was the engine, not the weight of the vehicle. I'm a novice here, but I have heard several times over the years that a certain transmission couldn't be used with an engine because the engine had too much torque.

The Trooper's max torque is 230 lb-ft, which isn't a whole lot more than vehicles like the Catera (roughly 200 lb-ft with the previous 3.0L; probably more with the new 3.2L).

Overall, I'm not worried about the transmission. To me, that GM puts this tranny in many vehicles is a good thing-- if it's good enough to go in all of these different vehicles, it must be a durable and/or versatile unit. On the other hand, you could argue that GM is simply squeezing extra mileage out of the trans by using it in so many different applications, and that it may not be well-suited for some of those vehicles.

paisan · February 2002

the tranny has been in use since '92 on these trucks, you'd think by now it would have started to show problems.

Blue: How is the Kia doing? I saw one today on my way to work out the window of the bus and thought to ask you about yours.

-mike

bluedevils · February 2002

So far (2 weeks, 350 miles) there aren't any major things wrong that need fixing (i.e. "initial quality issues"). There are a few little things I've noticed that indicate perhaps the build quality isn't top-notch and up to Lexus/Acura standards but that neither surprises nor disappoints me.

Overall, you make some minor compromises in comfort/convenience features in exchange for a van that costs a LOT less than the competition. It's a compromise that I feel is well worth making.

schulhof · February 2002

I have re-thought my Trooper vs. Explorer statements made earlier.

My real feelings are, back in 1996 when I made my purchase, the Trooper was (IMO) a way better value than the same year Exploder.

Buying a Trooper today, I think one has to consider the fact that they are buying mostly 8+ year old technology.

Granted it is very robust old technology.

I would hold off, as I have said before, I think the next generation of SUV's are going to be very impressive. They likely will seat more, get better mileage, run cleaner, etc.

If you really need off roading capability, then go with the Trooper. If you are like the other 99% of SUV buyers, you may want to wait for the next gen's.

beer47 · February 2002

My feeling was that if the Trooper was as tough off-road as everyone was saying, than that should forecast a really tough long lasting on-road vehicle. I could care less if I ever went off road; but I do care to have a tough high mileage, low cost vehicle. I have 56k on my 2k "s" purchased 6/30/01. I will have about 135K when I finish the payment book (God willing). If I can then run it 225k plus until I need another, then I'll be a winner and the Trooper will then have proved itself a great value. Remember the Junkman will give you the same $30 for a Toyota or Isuzu when they both have a quarter million miles. The trick as I see it is to run it as long as possible, used value be damned! Let's recap
1. a 31k truck for 24.3k
2. 56k trouble free miles (so far)
3. a very tight vehicle all around
4. My only problem is that when I am ready there will not be any new ones to buy (insert teardrop)
I guess I'll have to buy a used one on Ebay, but that's OK because the general public could care less and doesn't want them. This will mean reasonable prices on used. However, I guess parts will go through the roof once the importation of Troopers ceases. Maybe there will be another value as good as the Trooper, but for the life of me I can't figure it out at this point in time. Cheers! to all.

dielectric7bb · February 2002

discontinued overseas? That's when I would start to worry about parts. The tranny & engine could probably be ripped off an amigo/rodeo/axiom if they had to be...damn computers!

sbcooke · February 2002

I believe Isuzu passenger vehicles will only be produced in North America after 2004. There have been several articles out there about them cutting jobs in Japan and elsewhere. I would imagine the Jackaroo will not be produced in the future either.

paisan · February 2002

Will be the last model year of non NA built Isuzu SUVs. They are converting the mostly idle plant in japan over to produce more Trucks and Busses. Parts are required to be carried for 10 years after a model has been sold. Also as was stated above the Axiom and Rodeo have similar setups.

-mike

serrano · February 2002

The transmission torque ratings are more than sufficient to handle the engine torque. The transmission is, in my opinion, one of the outstanding features of the Trooper. It shifts firmly and quickly, and it has been very reliable.

One of the great features of the transmission is that it will lock the torque converter in both 3rd and 4th gear. With a solid lock, there is no fluid slippage and the transmission will not overheat. Very few other transmissions have this feature.

Regards,
Tom

flyinlow · February 2002

Someone a few posts back said that it's no big loss not to have a factory Trooper roof rack. He said the aftermarket racks are better and cheaper. Well, I've looked at Paisan's site and seen how you can get Overlander brackets that bolt right to the Trooper studs (aren't we all!). Then you can get a safari basket type rack. Well, ignoring the cost, that's not what I want. I want a factory style rack (stronger would be better) with side rails permanently mounted but with crossbars that would be removable, preferably. That way, for the relatively infrequent times I need to throw on a piece of plywood, sailboard, skis etc., I could mount the crossbars but not have the extra wind noise the rest of the time.

The problem with the Overlander brackets is that they seem to be designed to stay on permanently and would look crappy without the basket or crossbars attached. There's a company that sells several styles of OEM racks, but they have to be screwed through the sheetmetal and don't look strong. Does anybody know of any other options?

paisan · February 2002

Contact Cerami Isuzu in NJ. Make sure to talk to their sales dept and/or prep shop. I know I've seen them sell all their post 98 Troopers (or most of em) with OEM style racks. I know someone called there once and didn't get much info, but you probably just need to talk to the right person. Worst case, contact an Isuzu dealer in NZ and see how much it would be to send you an OEM one, or England for that matter.

-mike

zutrooper · February 2002

Guys: Does anyine have a link or pic of a 3rd gen trooper w/ step bars. I "need" some bars for my trooper, but I do not want to give up any ground clearance. Also, I don't want to spend too much on bars (or shipping). I'd prefer steel 2x4. Straight steel tubes are OK. Local shop (aka tennesseeoffroad.com) will build be a set, but they weld to frame. Any ideas? Thanks, Mark

paisan · February 2002

Matt from Indy 4x4 makes em. Conway has em on his truck. I have em for mine but I haven't gotten my buddy to weld em on yet. They don't cut down on ground clearance as they are equal with the frame, but they are weld ons.

-mike

boxtrooper · February 2002

The problem is that the Trooper roof is wider in front and narrower in back for aerodynamics. A set of sliding roof rack rails would need to be mounted a little bit skew to the roof trim to make a constant width track for removeable cross bars to slide in.
..
One possible solution: Get a set and a half of the Overlander brackets to fit all six mounting positions. Then have a Thule or Yakima steel bar welded to the brackets to create a front to back aerodynamic smooth looking roof rack rail. Make cross bars out of similar Thule or Yakima compatible bars and get a machine shop to make some brackets that have 2 way adjustability to allow the cross bars to slide fron to back. Problem 1. The Thule and Yakima bars are plastic coated - so no welding, solution 1 make a slide inside the bar bracket and bolt it on. Problem 2 OverLander brackets are hardenned so they are difficult to drill, use carbide bits.

boxtrooper · February 2002

Hello,
Has anyone thought of using the Rhino coating spray on up to 1/4 inch thick poly-something non-slip dent-resistant stuff? This is the coating used in pickup truck beds. I figure I could tie down stuff (like kids bikes and strollers or luggage) directly on top between my fixed Overlander/Thule cross bars just as if I had an expedition rack, only without the expedition rack. It would be lower to the roof for lowest center of gravity. The coating would provide some sound and thermal insulation. It comes in any color, they can match my Trooper's color.
..
Any drawbacks? This stuff cannot be removed once it is applied.
Thank You
boxtrooper

keepontroopin · February 2002

Your roof will dent in if you put something heavy on it.

flyinlow · February 2002

Thanks for the comments, Paisan and Box. I guess my best bet may be to try to get a foreign dealer to sell and ship me a factory rack. I imagine import laws and duties could be a hassle. Thank you, Consumer Reports and US legal system!

paisan · February 2002

I import the ECB bars, importing is pretty easy. Have them ship it via air-frieght, and the shipping company will do all the paperwork, etc. import tarriff on car stuff is 2.5%

-mike

troop2shos · February 2002

I just got back home from a business trip in Missouri. I was surprised to find 20+ Troopers in the hotel parking lot. As it turned out, a company was having a sales meeting & Troopers are bought for all of their managers as company vehicles. I was driving my SHO & thought I missed a Trooper convention. Maybe I should have applied for a job.....

boxtrooper · February 2002

Try looking at http://www.rola.com.au They are a manufaturer of extruded aluminum aerodynamic roof racks and they make them track mount permanent mount and removeable mount for casual users and commercial users. I once sent them a set of Overlander brackets to get them to figure out an adapter. They could not figure out an adapter that would look good to them so they just sent back the brackets. There is a Rola USA web site, but the Austrailian site is much nicer. Find it there buy it here, maybe for less than import prices since it does not need to be shipped half way around the world and back. Just for fun, tell them in the USA that I sent you. They might remember me.

Thank You

boxtrooper

Isuzu Trooper

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