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Isuzu Trooper

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    jrr2kjrr2k Member Posts: 35
    Good call boxtrooper - there is no reason dealer/buyer experience should reflect a vehicle's quality.
    Personally I had a good experience with the local dealers. BUT due to poor sales performance of the Isuzu brand I can see dealers becoming aggressive.
    Initial quality is just that. My guess is there is not much seperation from the top to the bottom.
    I have to smile though---My trooper is a quality rig, and the poor sales and JDP IQ rankings have created a great price.
    True quality takes years and miles to evaluate.
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    bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    paisan and jrr2k, where are you guys getting these JD Power factoids?

    I've never found any details about JD Power's survey results. Like steve_host, the most info I've seen, which is never very much, is in their press releases.

    I'm confused - how could Trooper be rated for anything in 2003 since Trooper's final model year was '02?
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    One of the auto-industry web pages a while back. It was the 2002 survey of the '98 model year Trooper for reliability.

    -mike
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    boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    I think I have had Troopers long enough to tell if quality is good or not. I say for the money, nothing else even comes close to the Trooper's quality.

    I think the Toyota LandCruiser of a few years back like the one my brother has, is extremely good quality, but he paid almost three times as much to buy his new as I did to buy mine new. He says he will keep his LandCruiser a minimum of 15 years and expects no trouble. He gets worse MPG than I do making it that much more expensive. And as a general rule Toyota dealers are just about the worst there are.
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    jrr2kjrr2k Member Posts: 35
    Bluedevil - I got the info included in a "consumer report" by FightingChance. (www.fightingchance.com - $30 will save you $300)
    My guess is that these JD Power reviews are available for a price.
    Typo on the 2003. What I got shows rankings on 2002 model years. Oops.
    Some other facts about these IQ reviews:
    "Every year JD Power asks 50000 new vehicle buyers about problems in the first 90 days, then ranks nameplates by the average number of problems per vehicle"
    "The best models average 1/2 defect per vehicle, the worst almost 3 per vehicle"
    I'm serious about fighting chance, a guy here at the office is buying a Jeep Liberty and has 5 semi-local dealers in a bidding war for his business. I had 4 dealers out bid one another for my business. No floor salesmen either, only fleet and sales managers.
    ---I just got off the phone with Fighting Chance, they got the information from JD P's annual report - available at the library for free!
    BTW - they told me that JD Power sent them a stern letter with a notice to stop reprinting their reports.
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    tetonmantetonman Member Posts: 73
    Unicon's statement:

    I own a '99...yea I should have waited to buy the '2000....

    struck me as kind of funny. Since the '99 and '00 Troopers are basically the same engine wise, feature wise, etc. the added warranty coverage was a marketing ploy to try and move some of the Troopers from dealer lots. The quality remains the same, I'm sure that you won't have the type of problems a Ford/GM/Chrysler truck owner will have... you should be able to get way past the 50,000 mile mark with no problems and at least to 100,000 for the tranny (assuming you keep up the maintenance and don't jump your truck like Paisan!).

    There is a thread on 4X4Wire.com where owners are listing their mileage and any major work done on their Troopers. Go check it out and I think you'll pocket that extra money you may have laid out for the extended warranty.
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    sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Try getting Isuzu warranty service in 2010!
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    zutrooperzutrooper Member Posts: 66
    Guys, I've got a new rumor to disspell. I was just told that my trooper may have a voided warranty. Its a trooper that came out of alamo's rental fleet. I figured vehicle has a 50k warranty. My colleague says any "program" car has a voided warranty b/c of fleet/commercial use. Anyone heard of this? Is he for real?
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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    Does he work for Isuzu? If not, call Isuzu at 1-800-255-6727 and see what they tell you.
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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    Of course most changes were minor but besides the warranty I think the main change was that the auto tranny got grade logic. Minor changes included a new grille, beige interior, standard rubber cargo mat and I think the tail lights are slightly different. When did drive-by-wire become standard?
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    cwp2cwp2 Member Posts: 19
    Thanks for the tire cover info. I finally got it off,but it does take some know-how. Now the bigger problem may be how to get it back on correctly.

    Also, I found Westin chrome tube steps for $229. Anyone know of a better deal?
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    breakorbreakor Member Posts: 398
    I cannot hurt to check Ebay as you never know what may show up. Also, St. Charles auto (800-727-8066)has very good prices on all Isuzu factory parts.
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    fluffymefluffyme Member Posts: 1
    I have encountered a deal atmy bank on a vol repo 2001 Trooper 28K miles...16K...My son sys if that is what I wnt I should just get a new 2002 but I am looking at the diff in price. Do any of you have any input this is an LS model no sunroof but loaded with rack steps everything else ....4wd
    My next ?? is does this vehicle depreciate that much normally?? Have ther been any significant repair prob... I cn read loads of stats online but I would much rather tlk to consumers to get the REAL picture....Any info that you have would be appreciated...Thanks...really need to let them know by Monday...
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    ostazostaz Member Posts: 80
    fluffyme, 2001 LS for $16k is a good deal if the truck is in good condition (there may be some room to bargain down, as dealer are unloading Troopers, some even at a loss). As you you may have read on this board, Troopers are very reliable and you should be able to get 200k plus w/o any major problems.
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    You can check Edmund's True Market Value. Offhand, I would think a repo would be a pretty good deal pricewise assuming, of course, it's in good condition as Ostaz points out.

    tidester, host

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    flyinlowflyinlow Member Posts: 62
    This is just my opinion, and I'm very happy with our 2002 LS, but I think $16K is too much for a 2-year-old LS with 28K miles. Reasons: 1: my local dealer is advertising $7500 off sticker for new Troopers(therefore all dealers can do at least that well, IMHO). 2: I would be leery of any repo as you have to assume the owner spent no money on maintenance. People that poor at managing money are likely to be irresponsible in other areas, too. 3: The full warranty does not transfer to the second owner (except immediate family). 4, and most painful: this is an orphan vehicle. We have more than 9 years to go on our warranty, but I expect Isuzu to pull out of the US and/or go bankrupt long before then. When GM is trying to pay money to get LESS ownership of the company, what does that tell you? Isuzu has been sucking wind for years, here: no successful new products, no national advertising, they compete only in the hottest part of the US car market and yet can't make money. Do I sound bitter? Just wish I had somehow realized this was looming when we bought the thing in January. It is a great vehicle and I expect it to be reliable, so maybe we won't get burned too badly when we need parts and service a few years from now. It could be worse: anybody own a Daewoo?
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    wildbucwildbuc Member Posts: 88
    For my purposes the 4-wheel drive Trooper is the best automative value in the country. I wouldn't sell my 99 Trooper for less that I paid for it (honest) since I then would have to replace it with a poorer vehicle. My 99 Trooper has been without problems, but I do all the basic maintenance myself and do not let repair "experts" go near it. I have also owned other Troopers and had similar experiences.
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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    I paid 16.5K for a '98 with the luxury and performance packages over a year ago. I think I did just okay.

    I would be leery of a repo, for all the reasons elucidated by flyinlow.

    As for the warranty issue, it might be a good idea to consider buying a used vehicle and an aftermarket extended warranty. You don't have to have a vehicle fixed at the dealer that way. And I expect that parts will be available for quite a while.

    Isuzu needs to do something innovative (like Nissan did a few years ago when they were on the ropes) to stay in business. Supercharged diesels, fuel cells, something. They make realiable products (recently just quirky ones, but reliable). The Rodeo is an excellent size platform for a 4 cyl TD that would accelerate like a gasoline powered vehicle, but get 30 on the highway... and have tons of grunt for off roading. Maybe if GM gets lost, they can do it. Maybe.
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    jrr2kjrr2k Member Posts: 35
    First off thanks to all you for the warm welcome. Us Trooper owners need to stick together. (Excellent website paisan! - I'll be there alot.)
    One topic that deserves some discussion is the future of Isuzu. With huge amounts of debt and slumping sales it will take a miracle to stay put in the US market. With ALL automakers facing depressed future earnings, small players like Isuzu are in trouble. What does this mean for warranty maintenance of our vehicles? Resale value? forgetaboutit!
    One positive...used troopers will be cheap cheap cheap.
    Your thoughts?
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    I don't really understand why the US market is such a tough nut to crack. To me it's simple....marketing!

    If you look at Toyota and Nissan with their big 4WD's, the Landcruiser and Patrol, they are big sellers everywhere else in the world. In Australia, you will pay higher than market averages for a Toyota Landcruiser and they are always in the top 5 sellers for 4WD's. Why? Because of very effective marketing. People have a perception that they are high quality and they market an image of being able to go anywhere you want, at any time.

    In Australia, Isuzu-GM Aust and lately Holden have simply not done enough to push the Jackaroo/Monterey. I mean, they have had more rally success in Australia than any other 4WD and they don't push the point. Talk about missing a golden opportunity!

    Mitsubishi keeps pushing the Paris-Dakar success, and their 4WD outsells the Holden line as a result. They actually don't have anything else to push.

    Isuzu's problem to my way of thinking has always been a perception issue brought on by really poor marketing. You gotta spend money to make money!

    It won't be long before Isuzu will only be represented by their trucks in Australia (figure this one ... number 1 truck make in Australia!). I just hope Holden finds or develops a decent alternative to the Jackaroo/Monterey and eventually the Frontera.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's all the marketing. :( And Isuzu has the worst, probably as a result of GM in the mix...

    -mike
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gee, didn't the Trooper got reams and reams of free publicity from the CR cover story? Don't they say that any PR is good PR?

    sorry, couldn't resist....

    Steve, Host
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    bobbycarbobbycar Member Posts: 12
    At 65,000 miles & 4 years, the engine on our 98 Trooper went out (a rod?). The service manager @ McKenna Isuzu in HB, CA was able to get us a short block for free & charged us about half (~$700) on labor. This could have cost us $4,500 like my '63 Corvette. While this one was just out of warranty, newer Troopers have 120,000 mile warranties, so that may have played a part. We have been a customer of this dealership for 15 years - maybe even that played a part.
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    mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    http://www.muddy4x4.com/istr204.htm
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    96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    Wow, what a great shot, mkaye. That mud hole must be at least 2 ft deep!
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/unf-10-02


    -mike

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    cwmosercwmoser Member Posts: 227
    I agree with Sawas_e comment: "I don't really understand why the US market is such a tough nut to crack. To me it's simple....marketing!"

    In 1999 we purchased 2 new vehicles: 1999 Trooper and 1999 Toyota - both because I thought these were high-quality vehicles. The Toyota has a very high perceived quality rating but my Trooper seems much more solid and trouble free than even the Toyota. The Toyota has had trouble with the sliding doors, electric windows, and oil sludge worries. The Trooper has only had routine maintenace.

    I think Isuzu America should be putting on TV owner testimonials describing their experiences. Their Marketing should focus on the fun aspects of the Trooper by showing commercials of the activities in group events like in NC and other parts of the world, and commercials about Trooper-oriented user groups with fun loving people. Would help tremendously by putting an 'Australian' identity like Suburau has done.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    For about 3 years most of the die-hard Isuzu owners I know have said they should turn over their marketing dept to us and they'd be selling em like crazy!

    -mike
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    wildbucwildbuc Member Posts: 88
    If Isuzu had used my Troopers for marketing, they would have made a killing. Here's some scenes that would have been effective:

    1. Trooper on the outer banks of N.C. with me fishing in the surf.
    2. Trooper going up logging trails in the N.C. mountains (love that first gear).
    3. Trooper hauling sailboats which I restored.
    4. Trooper hauling loads of nautical gear to repair boats.
    5. Trooper hauling my kayaks.
    6. Trooper hauling my dogs.
    7. Trooper pulling logs which I cut down to clear land.
    8. Trooper full of family members on vacation.
    9. Trooper being serviced by owner (so easy).
    10. Trooper safely stored in the barn during storms.
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    boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    place an oppology and space for an Isuzu provided ad. on the cover of everything they print and a large Isuzu billboard in front of the CR headquarters for a year after they were caught in court falsifying data for profit. That would have cleared the Trooper's name and provided more advertising while teaching CR a lesson in ethics.
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    pugger1pugger1 Member Posts: 42
    First and foremost they need to get rid of Isuzu "Joe". He comes off as a real idiot. The product can not be good if the representative is an idiot. I agree, just let some of the people on this post talk about their feelings. Advertising is about feeling good and most of the time this group feels good about their Troopers.
    Philip
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    cwmosercwmoser Member Posts: 227
    1. My wife begging me to let her drive my Trooper instead of her driving her Toyota.

    2. My son wanting an Isuzu Trooper or Rodeo as his first car.

    3. A camera pan of the parking lot at my sons high school showing the number of Isuzu Rodeos there.

    4. How solid my Trooper feels after about 50k miles.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    of the couple that drove my truck with 42K miles on it at my local dealership after I got back from a Pine Barrens run covered in mud. They test drove it then looked at http://isuzu-suvs.com and saw the video of it flying in the snow. Next day they returned to the dealer and bought a 2002. It was the only 2002 Trooper my dealer sold and they had to test drive my 2000 cause the dealer didn't even have a floor model for them to drive.


    -mike

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    raydahsraydahs Member Posts: 449
    Just look at the past 5 years, re-design of the Rodeo - flop, Vehicross - flop, Axiom -flop. Did you ever hear of any lines at the Isuzu dealers to buy the latest vehicle like other brands? As a consumer, the only thing worth looking at was the Trooper with the huge discounts IMO :)
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It wasn't a flop. It was never meant to be anything more than Eye Candy to get people into the showrooms.

    The Rodeo and Axiom were not flops, saleswise they sucked, but performancewise and reliabilitywise they can't be beat.

    -mike
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    jrr2kjrr2k Member Posts: 35
    I think you are all on to something. I can't remember seeing an Isuzu ad in the last decade. You would think they would capitalize on their history of building dependable, rugged, even CHAMPIONSHIP 4x4s. I think sawas_e sums it up - You gotta spend $$$ to make $$$. Does anyone see Isuzu spending cash? They are slowing production, taking millions in GM bailout loans, and offering huge buyer incentives. Not a good recipe for a positive balance sheet.
    Attracting new customers these days will be hard. MOST automakers face tough times ahead. Small guys with a one trick pony (SUVs) like Isuzu will certainly struggle.
    My $.02 - they should downsize, focus their efforts on building rugged 4x4s. While everyone else moves twards the SMV with standard DVD screen for rear passengers, Isuzu will capture the attention of people like me.
    Isuzu should be to 4x4s what Lexus is to luxery cars. I think the assender moves Isuzu in the wrong direction.
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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    Isuzu needs to play its strengths. A super or turbo charged diesel (they already make great diesels) that gets good mileage in a body-on-frame SUV would be a very desirable thing. The same platform could be stretched to make a pickup or crew cab pickup. Start in a niche and widen it. Like Subaru did 10 years ago...
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They could capitalize on their duramax diesel engines and make mountain goats that make the rubicon look like a sandbox toy. They could market them as the "real" SUVs. If they stick to this niche, then GM won't mind them, currently if they let Isuzu loose they'd be canibalizing their own products. Isuzu could really be turned into a niche player like the Hummer, but for non-celebrity status.

    -mike
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    tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    I understand SMV is Soccer Mom Vehicle. For the softer end of the market (car based), I like Sport Utility Car... or SUCs.
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    jrr2kjrr2k Member Posts: 35
    Now thats funny!

    Its not a huge strech to believe Isuzu could be the poor mans Land Rover. Fire Joe Isuzu and spend his salary on a African Isuzu safari commercial.

    Ahhhhh wishful thinking!!!!
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    mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    Like it has been said, Trooper was the flagship and if there were some interesting alterations of the Trooper both upmarket and down, people may have taken greater interest. Isuzu sure could have been the equivalent in prestige (at least close) to Land Rover. I think the Jack8 Concept is too cool.

    http://www.holden.com.au///images/gallery/imagegallery/jack8/Jack5_640x480.jpg
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    The Rodeo and Axiom were not flops, saleswise they sucked, but performancewise and reliabilitywise they can't be beat.

    If a product is truly superior (NOT knocking Isuzu here!!) then I would think "marketing" is irrelevant. As the adage goes "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door."

    tidester, host
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    savvas_esavvas_e Member Posts: 347
    Marketing is totally relevant. For a product to be superior in the marketplace, it has to be perceived as such by the public. Perception is after all reality.

    There is a perception in Australia, among the SMV crowd, that Land Rover products are superior to anything else. The products themselves are probably the least reliable 4WD on the market. Electrical failures, diff failures, oil leaks, body rattles, etc, etc. If you can get from A to B in one, you've done well. Why do they sell, despite these issues? Because the marketing makes them appealling! Do some deeper research and you wouldn't go near one.

    Incidentally, the most reliable ever Range Rover sold in Australia is the 1972 model. These are still sought after by many 4WD enthusiasts. They were knockdown kits assembled in Australia and powered by an ISUZU DIESEL engine! Yep. We are talking about 30yr old vehicles and engines that are still going strong. I think that simple fact, speaks volumes.
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    wildbucwildbuc Member Posts: 88
    I have seen several examples of superior products being bested by inferior products with better marketing. Buying anything is often an impulse decision by many people, and that is influenced by the flash of marketing. I can remember a time when Apple computers were superior to IBM but lost market share due to other factors (marketing). Decades ago, I once sold a make of computers that were equal to brand names on the market but at half the price. They didn't sell well because nobody knew anything about them. You also have to be careful to what segment of the population you aim your product. Aim it at the center and the "Heartbeat of America" slogan might suffice to bring in millions of sales. In Isuzu's case, the Trooper should have been aimed at the diehard SUV lover--the active outdoor guy who demands quality over sizzle.
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    mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    I don't agree that simply building a better vehicle means people will flock to it. Ford Explorers and the new GM Triplets (soon to be quints) are certainly not superior in build quality to Isuzu. Not too many people are getting Isuzu to buy back their vehicle under the lemon law as with the GM products. Their off-road capability is certainly below average (One 4X4 magazine stated that the new Explorer was the LEAST off-road ready vehicle they had EVER tested). Yet, 400,000+ Explorer's are sold yearly. Why? I have no idea. People perhaps flock to the styling that they prefer to the Trooper, VX, or Rodeo, but not quality. Marketing helps you define the niche you are trying to sell the vehicle to. Ford, when they introduced the Explorer, actually produced a video that showed how 'family friendly' the Exploder was. Since then, families continue to be the main buyer's of the Explorer as station wagon alternatives. Even with the Firestone flap Ford didn't even experience a slowdown in Explorer sales. Why? I have no idea, I hate Explorers. Perhaps the Explorer is feeding off of Ford's reputation as a truck builder with the F series being #1 in overall sales for years. I actually considered buying an Envoy before my current (and third) Trooper. It is too small inside for me at 6'4". The Trooper is far more comfortable. I'll give the I-6 points for power, but it doesn't 'feel' too much more potent than the 3.5 in the Trooper. The handling on road is certainly more sluggish than the Trooper and the Trooper is better off-road. The GM may tow a little better, but by how much?

    People purchase with emotion not usually rational thinking. Wal Mart is known to be cheap, period. KMart lost market share because the market no longer knew what they stood for (among poor customer service, etc...). Wal Mart emotion is "I'm so happy with all this cheap stuff." Bloomingdale's emotion is "can you get me a Cobb salad while I'm shopping and spending my oodles of money?" Marketing defines, or rather differentiates the product in the marketplace. Isuzu didn't get the message out.

    People buy Land Rover because of the reputation and the styling matches the reputation as well as the marketing angle. Isuzu just didn't catch the right blend of styling/marketing to excite the majority of customer's attention. Part of it is the herd mentality. Explorer MUST be good because so many people buy it. So, many people buy it.

    Lemming's also prescribe to the 'herd mentality.' Personally, I don't want to be a Lemming.

    I just know that I enjoy driving my Trooper. I enjoy it's off-road ability. I enjoy the size and maneuverability, I enjoy the relative level of engine power. I enjoy the overall ride (with the modifications I've made). I plan keeping my Trooper until it recycles itself. Keep the Trooper name alive, keep contributing to this forum!
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    400,000+ Explorer's are sold yearly. Why?

    Maybe people don't want "true" SUVs but want the image of one? Marketing at work perhaps?

    Steve, Host
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    mkayemkaye Member Posts: 184
    Steve;

    That was my (and other's) suggestion, but your counterpart Tidester suggested that marketing is irrelevant.

    "If a product is truly superior (NOT knocking Isuzu here!!) then I would think "marketing" is irrelevant. As the adage goes "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door."

    tidester, host "
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, I think I started this thread with my Consumer Report crack, and word of mouth is great marketing. Where's the Isuzu word of mouth? Paisan keeps leading the parade, but I never see anything about the Troopers anywhere but Town Hall.

    On the other hand, it's rather fun having a unique ride.

    Steve, Host
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    beer47beer47 Member Posts: 185
    If you have kids and saw the movie "Spy Kids" and "Spy Kids 2", both films featured Isuzu vehicles. I believe the first one used a Trooper and the second used an Axiom. If you don't have young kids though, you probably didn't see either one. I would pay the money and get it placed on "Friends". If Jennifer Anniston drove one, people would notice. Remember the 'vette's on "Route 66". I saw the show as reruns as a kid and I still remember it.
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I will note that I prefaced my remarks with "truly superior." My conclusion would be that if your product fails or does not perform well in the marketplace then it probably wasn't truly superior (sorry, Isuzu fans!) or somebody else played dirty and unfairly (illegally?) kept your product out of view. That is the nature of the American market.

    Think of it this way. If there were a tool that you could use in your work that truly could increase your productivity by 100% and the product were not advertised, you can bet that word of its existence would spread far and wide in very short order. It would succeed in the marketplace!

    The best marketing is a superior product. Products that fail often do so because they are not really distinguished from the crowd of mediocre products.

    I also agree that mediocre products can succeed in the marketplace - through marketing! This is the real reason so much expense is devoted to marketing - most products are run of the mill and the only distinction (if you can call it that) among them is the marketing.

    tidester, host
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