I knew you'd ask me that. Let's imagine this conversation. "Hey Jeff, would you mind cleaning up and stepping away from making money for a few minutes and look up the diagram for a Sequoia center differential? Some guys on the Internet think its a viscous coupling and I need to prove otherwise." Once the look of "You can't be serious" dropped off his face, he'd tell me to get bent and I wouldn't blame him.
Then we have the issue of actually scanning it. Sorry, but I have neither a scanner, nor the technical skill to post it.
You'll have to look elsewhere to prove the green sky theory.
Hi instgtr- You are not alone. Like yours, my keyless remote also will initiate a horn honk periodically, about as frequently as you mentioned. If you or anyone else finds a fix, kindly post it. Thanks.
The Pilot is just a jacked up Oddesy with a FWD engine routing minimal power to the rear. It's the SUV for people who need a mini-van but are afraid of the stigmatism.
- Multi-mode 4 wheel drive with center locking differential.
Under mechanical features of the Land Cruiser:
- Full-time 4WD system with locking center differential."
Its my guess that the reason the center differential on the LC is considered "full-time" and the ctr diff on the Sequoia is considered "multi-mode" is because the LC has a viscous liquid ctr diff and the Sequoia does not. Another way to check is see if the part numbers in your manual are the same. If the ctr diffs are "identical" as you claim, they should have the same part numbers.
Must be spring break Paisan. Someone is hitting the Toyota discussions posting offtopic links about Hondas. We're cleaning them out. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
paisan: I agree with your assessment of the Denali awd system. IMO the ideal system would have the components (LSDs and viscous liq ctr coupling) of the Denali combined with the TT4 electronic traction control in the Sequoia and for those guys actually doing off-road, the addition of 4wd lo.
For my own purposes of owning 4wd vehicles, I've never really had a need for 4wd lo however I suppose some guys might sleep better at night knowing they had it, even if its never used.
I've been through two winters with the Denali's AWD system (although its hard to call it winter this year, more like a prolonged Fall), I've yet to feel a loss of traction or spinning of the wheels. However the added security of traction control would certainly make any awd system even more sure-footed.
Off-topic???obviously the Sequoia is a pretty darn good truck if the only thing people can find to discuss is AWD vs. 4wd, center locking differentials? I didn't see the Pilot post you cleaned out, but unless it was offensive I see no reason to delete it? A lot of people will be cross shopping the Pilot and the Sequoia, price, size and SUV seem to be the mitigating factors for most SUV buyers, therefore, mentioning the Pilot in this forum seems absolutely relevant. What is the policy behind deleting posts? This is kind of a Edmunds charter issue? If something valid was deleted, it will really turn me off of this forum. If I misinterpreted what you meant by "cleaning them out" please disregard my rant.
We tolerate lots of off-topic posts in these topic oriented discussions (esp. since it's hard to start a comparison topic with a vehicle that hasn't been introduced yet). But the deleted post was one of 5 identical ones that was pasted into various Toyota SUV discussions. So all but one were removed as off-topic. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
useless spam is OK. It concerned me because your post made it sound like you just deleted a regular non-sequoia post. I retract my rant, but stand by strong feelings that this forum should keep censorship to a minimum. Thanks for the fast response.
I am currently watching a program on the TLC about 2 modified TLC's crossing antartica, way cool.
I recall seeing a post on another message board where a keyless remote occasionally set off the panic alarm (usually at 5 AM) when the unlock button was pushed... was a temp sensitive problem, as I recall, and was finally traced to a short in the cabin wiring. Not quite the same as your problem, but it might give your mechanics a clue...
This 4 wheel drive discussion is almost as good and the old towing and payload discussion many moons ago. I've been reading the posts and getting a good laugh! But I lurk no longer. Here's my two cents:
The LC and 4WD Sequoia do not have and never had a Viscous Coupling (VC) in the center differential - this is a fact and arguing about it won't change it.
The poster that asked why their 4WD Yukon was binding up is a clear illustration of the difference between a part time system with a TRANSFER CASE and a true full time system (Sequoia, LC, JeepGC) with a CENTER DIFFERENTIAL (or) Viscous Coupling (Denali, JeepGC). I wonder how many uneducated GM/ Ford/ Dodge/ Isusu/ Tundra/ etc. owners are destroying their PART TIME 4WD systems thinking that they can drive them around all the time or any time in 4WD. A part time system in 4WD mode operated on dry pavement will quickly wear out the TRANSFER CASE, front and rear differentials, universal joints, CV joints and tires and can result in a long walk and a big repair bill. My guess is that this kind of damage is not covered under warranty and is a reason why 4WD vehicles have such a bad reputation for reliability and durability. Used 4WD buyers beware! The vast majority of 4WD vehicles on the road today are PART TIME systems and we all know that the general public, and some posters on this board, are thoroughly confused about 4WD operation.
If you look at the AWD, 4WD system in the GM Denali from that perspective, it's a pretty good system. It may not be the best for off road duty, but it is fool proof, idiot proof and requires no intelligence or knowledge to successfully operate it.
If you have a PART TIME 4WD vehicle that your significant other (SO) is driving, run out to it right now and make sure it is in 2WD. The push buttons in most vehicles make it way too easy to change modes (kids are always pushing buttons). the SO says: ".... well it says it's 4wd drive doesn't it?" Sequoia owners relax and stay in the house. Your full time system is happy in any mode your SO or kids can select by pushing buttons.
Ronstoy: Try programming mode 4 first and then 2. I had the dealer do mine -- I gave up after many attempts. I think the doors had to first be unlocked for the mode to change, and mode one always locks the doors first-- kind of a catch 22. Good Luck! (This only works on the '02 model)
'...isusu...owners are destroying their PART TIME 4WD systems thinking that they can drive them around all the time or any time in 4WD'
Well if the Isuzu owners have TOD it's ok. And I for one with a PART TIME 4WD system aren't destroying it by driving it around all the time in 4WD although about 10% of my driving is in 4WD off-road. Hey I don't have a push button either, good old fashion lever arm engagement. I do agree that with these new push button or dial knobs it is to easy to accidentally, or stupidly, engage a system improperly.
My wife and I are in the market to purchase a full size SUV. She currently drives a 1999 Ford Expedition which we have had some transmission and engine problems over the past 65K miles. These repairs have all been covered under the extended warranty.
We looked at all competing SUV's in this class and decided the Toyota Sequoia was our #1 choice for ride quality and reliability. The best price we could find on a Limited 4WD was $41,000 which is really more than what I would like to spend.
I decided to check out the Ford Expeditions again to see what specials they had going on and what I found out shocked me! The dealership I went to was offering Eddie Bauer 4WD fully loaded (including DVD video entertainment system) for $31,675! This is almost $10K less than the Limited 4WD Sequoia and has all the same features plus more!
We REALLY like the Sequoia but are going to have a difficult time justifying the price difference. We can purchase the Expedition with a 6 year/100,000 bumper-to-bumper warranty for $1,900 and still come out $7,425 less than the Sequoia.
I realize the resale value on the Sequoia will be more after 6 years of use but don't think it will come close to being $7,425 higher.
Depends on how much you like your local ford dealer's donuts and coffee, and if there are any good lunchtime resturants in the area. It's amazing how so many Ford owners even after having tranny and engine trouble even consider going back to that manufacturer. Do they put something in the seat material that addicts them to Fords?
Contact me at onzonorton@hotmail.com. I have something you will be interested in. It should clear up a lot of things. Trust me, there is no VC in the Sequoia.
I never said that they did or didn't have one, but Cliffy was trying to prove that some marketing crappola was definitive proof that it didn't have a VC.
Please contact me at onzonorton@hotmail.com for the same reason as paisan. I know you're busy cliffy and may not even care at this point. I understand your feelings.
I have a 2002 SR5 that has been fantastic but has recently developed an annoying squeaking noise in the roof area just above the windshield. It doesn't sound like it is coming from the sunroof, but really more in the area between the sunroof and the windshield. My Toyota dealer doesn't know what it is and has noticed it in a salespersons Sequoia so they are trying to fix it on that car first rather than experiment on mine. Does anyone have experience with this so that I might help direct them to the solution? Thanks - John
The problem with the Sequoia pricing is that everybody (not heatwave) wants one. In other words, Toyota is selling everyone that they make. Supply and demand. You know the story.
What would I do. Good question. My wife and I decided a while back that we were done with domestic vehicles. This coming from a once diehard Chevy fan. Put the screws to someone enough and they will abandon you. All I can say is do your budget and decide what is more important to you. Is it price and geegaws or reliability and the best full-time 4WD (I didn't say AWD) system on the market.
Good luck with your choice. But whatever you decide, ENJOY IT.
If that price is for the new expedition 2003 then that is an outstanding deal and I would probably go for it if I liked driving it etc.(obviously).
If it is for the old styly I'd be wary. You will have the double whammy of poor resale plus a change in body style. Then it becomes a much tougher decision.
We used to have a poster here (I think it was thirdsuv but I could be wrong) who actually did a fair amount of off road driving with his Sequoia. He also bought a shop manual and posted a description of what it said. The "transfer case" is actually a remarkable piece of engineering. There is a piece something similar to a giant bicycle chain that pulls the front drive gears up and creates a genuine open differential.
Slickrock hasn't been around since Aug. '01 or so. Maybe now that the GTO is being reintroduced he'll start visiting again. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I saw an informative post here yesterday about specs and pricing for the Honda Pilot, and thought it was relevant for those of us who are lurking here comparing Honda and Toyota SUVs(including the Sequoia). Don't really understand why it got deleted. In fact, I bookmarked it, and was wondering if it would be OK to post it here to break the monotony of the 4WD discussions? Or would this be considered anti-Toyota or violate any Edmunds policy?
If you were going to post info about the Pilot on a Toyota forum, wouldn"t it be more appropriate to post it in the Highlander forum? After all, it is a car based SUV isn't it? Does it have a frame or is it unibody? Isn't going to be priced about the same as a Highlander?
I think the Pilot is a comparable vehicle. A lot of shoppers are looking for seating and cargo capacity, and not considering drivetrain and frame. I don't think you can go by the old standards, cross platform shopping is much more common...people are also comparing SUVs vs. Station wagons. While some people are acutally comparing towing capacity, off-road capability, etc. A lot of people just want an SUV, so they may even be comparing a Highlander to a Sequoia as well.
Not sure about the 470. I do remember reading somewhere that Lexus would be marketing a version of the Sequoia.
You're right about peoples shopping habits, however I would think that once they physically experienced a full size SUV (any full size SUV) and a mid sized SUV they would realize that there are many differences other than price.
My wife and I had looked at the MDX, and while it is a VERY nice vehicle, we couldn't believe how tiny the rear seat was. After that we started thinking more seriously about a full size SUV. We wanted eight passenger seating for the in-laws, kids and grandkids and knew this was impossible with a a mid size. Maybe after we warehouse the in-laws. ;-)
Just read the "Consumer Reports 2002 SUV Edition". Dont rush out to buy it if you are looking for a well done review on the Sequoia.
They review every SUV on the market. However, not every SUV has had a "track test", thus what is left of the reviews of those SUV's that have not had a track test is a very brief description of the vehicle; nothing more. All the SUV's have their reliability reviewed and rated.
Those with track tests done seemed to have much more valuable information regarding performance, etc. written about them.
The Toyota Sequoia was NOT recommended (neither was the GMC Yukon). I am not sure why, as they didnt state a reason. (The GMC Yukon did not have a track test either).
Actually the Sequoia scored really high in all categories. I posted on this a while back. There was something like a 70% spread in quality of the Sequoia over the Yukon. I believe the spread was even greater with the Suburban. The reason the Sequoia was not recommended was that only one vehicle was recommended per size category and in the full size category the recommended was the Sequoia's cousin the Landcruiser. While I agree there was not much info, the grading in each category was very flattering, especially compared to GM products. As I stated in earlier post, it's just one perspective or set of information so I don't get too excited but I know Heatwave would certainly be posting here if the Sequoia scored poorly!
For those who might be considering this, after reading recent posts, I stopped by the dealer today and had my brakes inspected. The fronts had well over 50% remaining (rears 70%) at 19,500 miles. This is on a 2001 SR5 that is driven mostly in town. YMMV
2heeldrive: I agree with your entire assessment (post# 4936) of the different systems and the reasons to be cautious in buying a used vehicle with a part-time 4wd system.
With one minor exception. You state "The LC and 4WD Sequoia do not have and never had a Viscous Coupling (VC) in the center differential - this is a fact and arguing about it won't change it."
First, no one has suggested or argued that the Sequoia has a VC for a ctr diff (although I believe it would be a better vehicle if it had one). OTOH I provided a source that specifically stated the LC had a visc liq ctr coupling and cliffy posted from a Toyota Manual describing the LC and Sequoia ctr diffs in different terms from one another that one could interpret as being a VC in the LC. If you have some conclusive info suggesting the LC has an open ctr diff I'd be interested in reviewing it.
"When TOD is activated and the transfer case is in the High range position and TOD is turned on, the TOD control unit receives signals sent from the 12 input sensors, including front and rear axle speed sensors, ABS brake switch and the throttle position sensor. Isuzu's proprietary 3-D mapping software uses that input to determine the amount of force that's applied to the clutch pack.
When the clutch is completely disengaged, only the rear wheels are driven; when the clutch is completely engaged, a 50/50 torque split is achieved (50% of the power goes to the front wheels and 50% to the rear wheels). The amount of torque transferred to each axle (torque split) varies continuously as conditions are changing. Torque demands are continously (every 20 milliseconds) monitored and redistributed as needed, providing unmatched efficiency."
They also show a diagram that has the torque split 15/85 when operating on dirt or mud which would certainly give the impression from both the description and the schematic that the TOD system delivers 0/100 fr/rear distribution of torque under normal roadway conditions and transfers torque to the front wheels as the rear wheels lose traction.
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Then we have the issue of actually scanning it. Sorry, but I have neither a scanner, nor the technical skill to post it.
You'll have to look elsewhere to prove the green sky theory.
If I get bored here at work today I'll call up a toyota dealer and ask em to fax me a copy of the T-case for my 01 TLC
-mike
You are not alone. Like yours, my keyless remote also will initiate a horn honk periodically, about as frequently as you mentioned. If you or anyone else finds a fix, kindly post it. Thanks.
-mike
"Under the mechanical features of the Sequoia:
- Multi-mode 4 wheel drive with center locking differential.
Under mechanical features of the Land Cruiser:
- Full-time 4WD system with locking center differential."
Its my guess that the reason the center differential on the LC is considered "full-time" and the ctr diff on the Sequoia is considered "multi-mode" is because the LC has a viscous liquid ctr diff and the Sequoia does not. Another way to check is see if the part numbers in your manual are the same. If the ctr diffs are "identical" as you claim, they should have the same part numbers.
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For my own purposes of owning 4wd vehicles, I've never really had a need for 4wd lo however I suppose some guys might sleep better at night knowing they had it, even if its never used.
I've been through two winters with the Denali's AWD system (although its hard to call it winter this year, more like a prolonged Fall), I've yet to feel a loss of traction or spinning of the wheels. However the added security of traction control would certainly make any awd system even more sure-footed.
I wonder if the introduction of the Pilot will increase the chances that the U.S. market will see an AWD Odyssey?
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I am currently watching a program on the TLC about 2 modified TLC's crossing antartica, way cool.
Yeah that program is one of the good ones. Isn't it about 4X4's in general though?
The LC and 4WD Sequoia do not have and never had a Viscous Coupling (VC) in the center differential - this is a fact and arguing about it won't change it.
The poster that asked why their 4WD Yukon was binding up is a clear illustration of the difference between a part time system with a TRANSFER CASE and a true full time system (Sequoia, LC, JeepGC) with a CENTER DIFFERENTIAL (or) Viscous Coupling (Denali, JeepGC). I wonder how many uneducated GM/ Ford/ Dodge/ Isusu/ Tundra/ etc. owners are destroying their PART TIME 4WD systems thinking that they can drive them around all the time or any time in 4WD. A part time system in 4WD mode operated on dry pavement will quickly wear out the TRANSFER CASE, front and rear differentials, universal joints, CV joints and tires and can result in a long walk and a big repair bill. My guess is that this kind of damage is not covered under warranty and is a reason why 4WD vehicles have such a bad reputation for reliability and durability. Used 4WD buyers beware! The vast majority of 4WD vehicles on the road today are PART TIME systems and we all know that the general public, and some posters on this board, are thoroughly confused about 4WD operation.
If you look at the AWD, 4WD system in the GM Denali from that perspective, it's a pretty good system. It may not be the best for off road duty, but it is fool proof, idiot proof and requires no intelligence or knowledge to successfully operate it.
If you have a PART TIME 4WD vehicle that your significant other (SO) is driving, run out to it right now and make sure it is in 2WD. The push buttons in most vehicles make it way too easy to change modes (kids are always pushing buttons). the SO says: ".... well it says it's 4wd drive doesn't it?" Sequoia owners relax and stay in the house. Your full time system is happy in any mode your SO or kids can select by pushing buttons.
Well if the Isuzu owners have TOD it's ok. And I for one with a PART TIME 4WD system aren't destroying it by driving it around all the time in 4WD although about 10% of my driving is in 4WD off-road. Hey I don't have a push button either, good old fashion lever arm engagement. I do agree that with these new push button or dial knobs it is to easy to accidentally, or stupidly, engage a system improperly.
We looked at all competing SUV's in this class and decided the Toyota Sequoia was our #1 choice for ride quality and reliability. The best price we could find on a Limited 4WD was $41,000 which is really more than what I would like to spend.
I decided to check out the Ford Expeditions again to see what specials they had going on and what I found out shocked me! The dealership I went to was offering Eddie Bauer 4WD fully loaded (including DVD video entertainment system) for $31,675! This is almost $10K less than the Limited 4WD Sequoia and has all the same features plus more!
We REALLY like the Sequoia but are going to have a difficult time justifying the price difference. We can purchase the Expedition with a 6 year/100,000 bumper-to-bumper warranty for $1,900 and still come out $7,425 less than the Sequoia.
I realize the resale value on the Sequoia will be more after 6 years of use but don't think it will come close to being $7,425 higher.
What would you do????
-mike
Contact me at onzonorton@hotmail.com. I have something you will be interested in. It should clear up a lot of things. Trust me, there is no VC in the Sequoia.
Paul
-mike
-mike
for the same reason as paisan. I know you're busy cliffy and may not even care at this point. I understand your feelings.
Paul
-mike
What would I do. Good question. My wife and I decided a while back that we were done with domestic vehicles. This coming from a once diehard Chevy fan. Put the screws to someone enough and they will abandon you. All I can say is do your budget and decide what is more important to you. Is it price and geegaws or reliability and the best full-time 4WD (I didn't say AWD) system on the market.
Good luck with your choice. But whatever you decide, ENJOY IT.
If it is for the old styly I'd be wary. You will have the double whammy of poor resale plus a change in body style. Then it becomes a much tougher decision.
I'm a little behind, but in post 4906 you state:
We used to have a poster here (I think it was thirdsuv but I could be wrong) who actually did a fair amount of off road driving with his Sequoia. He also bought a shop manual and posted a description of what it said. The "transfer case" is actually a remarkable piece of engineering. There is a piece something similar to a giant bicycle chain that pulls the front drive gears up and creates a genuine open differential.
That poster was the infamous slickrock.
Cheers,
Jack
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I think the Pilot is a comparable vehicle. A lot of shoppers are looking for seating and cargo capacity, and not considering drivetrain and frame. I don't think you can go by the old standards, cross platform shopping is much more common...people are also comparing SUVs vs. Station wagons. While some people are acutally comparing towing capacity, off-road capability, etc. A lot of people just want an SUV, so they may even be comparing a Highlander to a Sequoia as well.
You're right about peoples shopping habits, however I would think that once they physically experienced a full size SUV (any full size SUV) and a mid sized SUV they would realize that there are many differences other than price.
My wife and I had looked at the MDX, and while it is a VERY nice vehicle, we couldn't believe how tiny the rear seat was. After that we started thinking more seriously about a full size SUV. We wanted eight passenger seating for the in-laws, kids and grandkids and knew this was impossible with a a mid size. Maybe after we warehouse the in-laws. ;-)
-mike
They review every SUV on the market. However, not every SUV has had a "track test", thus what is left of the reviews of those SUV's that have not had a track test is a very brief description of the vehicle; nothing more. All the SUV's have their reliability reviewed and rated.
Those with track tests done seemed to have much more valuable information regarding performance, etc. written about them.
The Toyota Sequoia was NOT recommended (neither was the GMC Yukon). I am not sure why, as they didnt state a reason. (The GMC Yukon did not have a track test either).
The reason the Sequoia was not recommended was that only one vehicle was recommended per size category and in the full size category the recommended was the Sequoia's cousin the Landcruiser.
While I agree there was not much info, the grading in each category was very flattering, especially compared to GM products.
As I stated in earlier post, it's just one perspective or set of information so I don't get too excited but I know Heatwave would certainly be posting here if the Sequoia scored poorly!
-mike
-mike
With one minor exception. You state "The LC and 4WD Sequoia do not have and never had a Viscous Coupling (VC) in the center differential - this is a fact and arguing about it won't change it."
First, no one has suggested or argued that the Sequoia has a VC for a ctr diff (although I believe it would be a better vehicle if it had one). OTOH I provided a source that specifically stated the LC had a visc liq ctr coupling and cliffy posted from a Toyota Manual describing the LC and Sequoia ctr diffs in different terms from one another that one could interpret as being a VC in the LC. If you have some conclusive info suggesting the LC has an open ctr diff I'd be interested in reviewing it.
In it they described the Trooper system as
"When TOD is activated and the transfer case is in the High range position and TOD is turned on, the TOD control unit receives signals sent from the 12 input sensors, including front and rear axle speed sensors, ABS brake switch and the throttle position sensor. Isuzu's proprietary 3-D mapping software uses that input to determine the amount of force that's applied to the clutch pack.
When the clutch is completely disengaged, only the rear wheels are driven; when the clutch is completely engaged, a 50/50 torque split is achieved (50% of the power goes to the front wheels and 50% to the rear wheels). The amount of torque transferred to each axle (torque split) varies continuously as conditions are changing. Torque demands are continously (every 20 milliseconds) monitored and redistributed as needed, providing unmatched efficiency."
They also show a diagram that has the torque split 15/85 when operating on dirt or mud which would certainly give the impression from both the description and the schematic that the TOD system delivers 0/100 fr/rear distribution of torque under normal roadway conditions and transfers torque to the front wheels as the rear wheels lose traction.