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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    edited November 2014
    The anti UAW workers at VW TN are starting to push back... They have some good arguments. And some agreements the UAW made with VW to get their cooperation.

    http://www.no2uaw.com/

    11 Reasons Why We Demand a Secret Ballot Vote
    1. We were told Volkswagen wanted us to sign a card. (I heard this personally at a UAW meeting)
    2. IGMetall Told us to sign a card. Link
    3. We were told by the UAW that they were just gauging interest and it wasn’t an official campaign. Link
    4. Some were cornered and TOLD to sign the cards. Proof of this exists.
    5. Some cards were signed for people.
    6. Many signed because they were constantly pressured by other employees and Team Leaders.
    After almost two years who wouldn’t give in?
    7. We were told it was for the works council and not the UAW.
    8. We were told “No UAW, No Works Council. Link
    Then we were told we didn’t need the UAW for a works council. Link
    9. We were told “No works Council, No VW expansion”. Link
    10. Aerotek workers were promised employment if they signed a card.
    Once they were hired by Volkswagen their cards counted.
    11. The UAW has promised more money and better benefits. This is very illegal, but very persuasive.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    "The United Auto Workers union has seen no impact from the recent right-to-work laws that went on the books in Michigan, the organization’s home turf and one of its largest geographic footprints due to auto-industry representation, union President Dennis Williams said.

    Mr. Williams, speaking at UAW headquarters, said the union hasn’t seen a decline even after renegotiating some deals that would allow workers to opt out of paying union dues."

    UAW Chief Says Little Impact Seen From Michigan Right-to-Work Laws
    (sorry, WSJ registration link)
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,280
    Darn!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I am sure RTW has improved Michigan's shot at new industry.

    MADISON, Wis. — While big labor and the politicians who love their money paint doomsday scenarios should Wisconsin become the nation’s 25th right-to-work state, at least one top national union leader says there is little harm in giving workers the right to choose.

    Gary Casteel, secretary-treasurer of the United Auto Workers, said he prefers organizing in a right-to-work environment.

    “This is something I’ve never understood, that people think right to work hurts unions,” Casteel said in February, according to a July 1 piece in the Washington Post.

    http://dailysignal.com/2014/12/13/uaw-boss-right-work-doesnt-hurt-unions-helps/
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Looks like someone gets it.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited December 2014
    And another registration WSJ blurb:

    "United Auto Workers President Dennis Williams said on Monday the current two-tier wage scale for auto workers is unacceptable, and the roughly $19.50 an hour wage new hires earn should be a “good starting point” for negotiations with Detroit auto makers next year.

    It is the fundamental belief of the union that people doing the same job should get paid the same wage."
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    stever said:

    And another registration WSJ blurb:

    "United Auto Workers President Dennis Williams said on Monday the current two-tier wage scale for auto workers is unacceptable, and the roughly $19.50 an hour wage new hires earn should be a “good starting point” for negotiations with Detroit auto makers next year.

    It is the fundamental belief of the union that people doing the same job should get paid the same wage."


    He is absolutely right. However there needs to be compromise. The D3 are not going to roll over and raise the bottom tier up to the top level. Williams knows it and told his people it will be 2019 before they can get parity in the ranks. I think that is optimistic. They are waiting for the top tier to die off or retire.

    “The more difficult issue is going to be the Tier 2,” said Art Schwartz, a professor of labor relations at Wayne State University and a former general director of labor relations for GM. “How much of the gap are you going to bridge?”

    Schwartz said raises for Tier 1 workers shouldn’t be as difficult as significantly bridging the gap between the two tiers. He said it’s “doubtful” the union will be able to eliminate the two-tier system in 2015 negotiations.

    UAW hourly members surveyed by The Detroit News said getting rid of the system is a top concern.


    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2014/12/15/uaw-president-union-faces-huge-hurdles/20432139/
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    This UAW local has gotten rid of the two tier. But they are not paying near what the D3 are paying their top people. Time for a reality check at the D3 plants paying near $30 per hour.

    Hammond, IN – All workers at Lear Corp.’s plant in Hammond, Ind. will earn more than $21 an hour by the end of a new four-year contract ratified Sunday evening—a week after a one-day strike shuttered the plant.

    The contract abolishes the unfair system that locked hundreds of workers into fast-food-like wages, paving the way for all workers in the plant to enter the middle class. Under the deal, wages will start at $16.50 and rise to $21.58 by the end of the agreement, establishing a new industry standard for seating workers across the country. Wages for some workers will rise more than 60%.

    http://www.uaw.org/articles/indiana-auto-workers-ratify-deal-lear-eliminating-two-tier-pay-system
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    UAW has an uphill battle in the Southern auto factories. Is their effort forcing the companies to use more contract temps???

    Since then, Williams says Nissan has made it more difficult with its heavy use of temporary workers.

    “They’re in constant fear of losing their jobs. They’re in constant fear of talking about organizing. The way the Labor Act is set up, it’s virtually almost impossible to organize temporary workers in a workplace, even though they are permanent because they are employed by another employers,” Williams said. “It’s a shell game.”

    http://nashvillepublicradio.org/blog/2014/12/15/uaw-volkswagen-success-may-make-tougher-organize-south-easier/

    A rival labor group to the United Auto Workers at Volkswagen's Chattanooga plant said Saturday it expects to have signed up at least 15 percent, and perhaps as many as 30 percent, of the workforce as members by late January.

    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2014/dec/14/ace-eyes-15-30-percent-membership-vw/278038/
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    edited December 2014
    Mark my word, it may take awhile, but if the multi-millionaire executives keep crapping on workers and the economy continues to improve, unions may well come back and bite them. It all goes in cycles and the federal reserve has been unusually good to these CEO's for quite a bit now. I know, the world labor market changes everything, but not always. Long distance can cause a lot of inefficiencies, and communication and marketplace screw-ups. Talk to some managers about consequences from having engineering or IT in places like India. Same goes for customer service feedback that can help or hurt a product line or service. I believe someone once said "all business is local" and in the long run that is probably true whether the US marketplace or somewhere else like in China's.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    This may make it harder to sell people on Unions going forward.

    Sweetheart deal? Unions allowed to cut retiree benefits rather than fix underfunded pensions. But when it comes to standing by the obligation unions made to provide pensions to retirees, UFCW pleaded poverty in persuading Congress to let chronically underfunded union pension plans cut the benefits of workers, including those already retired.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/29/big-spending-unions-got-congress-to-approve-pensio/

    Here is the new law:

    http://www.shrm.org/hrdisciplines/benefits/articles/pages/multiemployer-pension-payouts.aspx
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited December 2014
    This is a GREAT read about the historic struggles between the unions and the D3 in the early 2000s--it covers both union and management blunders and focuses upon some of the more notorious (and commendable) players on both sides. Highly recommended!

    Once Upon a Car
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    edited December 2014
    Sweetheart deal? Unions allowed to cut retiree benefits rather than fix underfunded pensions. But when it comes to standing by the obligation unions made to provide pensions to retirees, UFCW pleaded poverty in persuading Congress to let chronically underfunded union pension plans cut the benefits of workers, including those already retired.


    gagrice - this is what I hope Boeing does not do. Yikes! If Boeing has the control over the funds and IAM/SPEEA have fought to get the pension funding, it should take something catastrophic like Boeing bankruptcy to halt pension payouts to retirees. Otherwise that's not right, turning the other way from their promises made.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    The article posted by gagrice notes that this affects "multi-company" pensions administered by the union. So pensions that are distinct by company are not affected. Plans wanting to cut benefits have to be in critical danger of becoming insolvent in the next 10 years, Lastly, those plans are required to make increased payments to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation from $12 per capita to $26 per capita.

    Let's keep in mind that this provision was added to the spending bill that if vetoed by the President would have shut down the government again.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    ROBR, is correct it is for multiemployer defined pensions that are administered by the Unions. I know the Teamsters president was fuming about it to the rank and file. Truth is the Central states Teamster pension fund is in dire straits and the trustees pushed for the amendment. Along with other Unions mentioned in the articles. Another interesting amendment was the extension of hours truck drivers can be on the road from 70 to 82 hours per week. Hoffa was real upset with that bit in the bill. I don't think Obama would have vetoed the bill for anything. He is too busy vacationing and golfing to be concerned about the country.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    "Michigan's union membership fell 7.6% in 2014, the first full year that the state's right-to-work law was in place.

    The law hasn't impacted the UAW's autoworkers yet because they are under a contract that expires later this year."

    Michigan union membership falls to 14.5% (Detroit Free Press)

    Going to be interesting to see what happens with the numbers as the UAW renegotiates with the automakers.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    stever said:

    "Michigan's union membership fell 7.6% in 2014, the first full year that the state's right-to-work law was in place.

    The law hasn't impacted the UAW's autoworkers yet because they are under a contract that expires later this year."

    Michigan union membership falls to 14.5% (Detroit Free Press)

    Going to be interesting to see what happens with the numbers as the UAW renegotiates with the automakers.


    I don't think the rank and file of the UAW are going to be happy with what the Union gets for them this year. The members want to end the two tier wage scale and rightly so. That is a horrible contract they have now. They want the pension plan the old timers have, which they are not likely to ever get. There is no way you can pay one person $30 per hour and someone doing the same job $18 per hour year after year and not have labor problems. The UAW needs to cut the long time employees down and raise the new employees up to meet them. Having a progression is fine over 4-6 years. When you know you are never going to make as much as some old broken down dude, it makes for bad employee relations.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I dunno, if I'm one of the new guys and I no longer have to belong to the union to work (per state law), why would I? Sounds like a good way to lose the new workers from the union.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    stever said:

    I dunno, if I'm one of the new guys and I no longer have to belong to the union to work (per state law), why would I? Sounds like a good way to lose the new workers from the union.


    That is exactly what I see happening if they do not get parity. Tell the Union boss I will start paying dues when I make the big bucks. Taft Hartley is the Federal RTW law since 1948. Many Federal employees get all the benefits without the dues.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Thought sure you were going to be talking about a different union at first glance.

    United Steelworkers on strike at BP Whiting refinery (wgntv.com)

    "Analysts don’t expect the strike to have an effect on local gasoline prices."

    That's a laugher. :D
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432

    “After three months of union slowdowns, it makes no sense to pay extra for less work,” said PMA spokesman Wade Gates, “especially if there is no end in sight to the union’s actions which needlessly brought West Coast ports to the brink of gridlock.”

    Time to start hiring all those illegals that Obama is giving the green light to. They are hard workers and can learn to operate a crane for a heck of a lot less than $150k a year.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    edited February 2015
    Immigrants always bring fresh energy into a country, that's true. That's why they come here---to work. But you know, all those UAW workers who rode with the automakers from the heights of the roller coaster in the 50s to the depths of it in the 80s---they were mostly the sons of immigrants.

    I guess you struggle to make it, and when you're comfortable, you don't want to struggle again.

    Everybody wants to be understood.

    Everybody wants you to see things from their point of view.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    edited February 2015
    This is a good read on WHY people don't like Unions.

    The UAW Won’t Leave

    In the northwestern corner of Alabama is the tiny town of Hamilton, where the folks who work for the big ball-bearing company, NTN-Bower, are having a tough time. The majority of the workers don’t want to be represented by the United Auto Workers union anymore but the UAW, in typical fashion, is refusing to leave.

    So the NTN-Bower employees will have an unprecedented fourth vote on February 20th in yet another attempt to cast out the union that so desperately needs members. UAW officials were able to persuade the National Labor Relations Board to dismiss the first two votes by the employees and, when a third vote was taken on January 16 of this year, the union finally won.

    But, once again, there was a discrepancy – 139 workers voted but 148 ballots were found in the box. Imagine that. Only 140 workers at NTN-Bower are eligible to vote.

    The vast majority of those in the Chattanooga area are “anti-union” after organized labor nearly ruined Chattanooga 50 years ago. Many can still recall when there was little industry in what is now a vibrant city. As Deb Emster so succinctly put it, “The union rabble rousers need to get out of Tennessee. They are not welcome. They are not good neighbors. They are thugs and institutions of evil."

    “The unions of today do no good to anyone but themselves,” she said. “They pocket the money they collect and it is skimmed by the mafia. Thuggery, mafia, meanness and evil is not Tennessee. Now these bad people need to get out of here and go back to the hell holes they came from.”

    http://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/2/5/293426/Roy-Exum-The-UAW-Wont-Leave.aspx
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Had to look him up - name rang a dim bell. His family owned one of the papers there when I lived there. Old Lookout Mountain money. Something tells me he cherry picked a few quotes. :D
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    edited February 2015
    stever said:

    Had to look him up - name rang a dim bell. His family owned one of the papers there when I lived there. Old Lookout Mountain money. Something tells me he cherry picked a few quotes. :D

    Not surprising. Is there any honest journalism left? He wasn't far off about the place. I know when I was there about 40 years ago it seemed like a dirty dead place. Black soot all over from coal fires. Kind of reminded me of someplace Charles Dickens would describe. The people have every right to be skeptical of Unions. How many Unions throughout the USA have taken money from the members for their pension funds that are likely not going to be there when they retire? I know ours is better off than many. But they had to do some serious cutting to keep it solvent over the years. When my employer first started paying into the pension fund we had 100% medical, dental and eye care for Life. About 25 years later they quit paying health care for retirees completely. They did away with the COL increases. What you get when you retire, you get till you die. To cover your spouse when you die cuts into your pension big time. Many promises made in 1971 when we joined the Teamsters that were not kept. Maybe the workers in Alabama will get an honest election out of the NLRB on their 4th try.

    Workers at the factory have held three elections, including two NLRB votes, to determine whether or not to remain in the union since 2013. Alabama is a right-to-work state and does not allow forced unionization. NTN-Bower employs 140 workers at the factory who are union eligible, but only 76 pay union dues to Local 1990, according to 2013 federal labor filings.

    UAW Local 1990, which represents the workers, collected about $38,000 in dues from its members in 2013. It spent $17,000 on staff, officers, and administrative costs. The majority of the money was turned over to the national UAW for per capita taxes.


    http://freebeacon.com/issues/workers-try-to-boot-union-for-fourth-time-after-rigged-election/
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited February 2015
    You wouldn't recognize the place now. I barely do.... Well, Lookout hasn't changed much, but that's about it.

    See Ruby Falls. B)
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Heck, the Longshoremen on the west coast make the UAW look benign. I think the gov puts up with way too much from them while they hurt the economy and other's living. I read the average dock worker on the west coast takes in something like $147K per year. So why does the gov tolerate this crap? I know - payola (oops, I mean PAC money and campaign contributions).
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    The longshoremen have always been the prima donna union. What they have been doing is slacking off to force more weekend work. The Port people have finally had enough. Without any OT, a low level grunt will make $73,000 per year. For every additional job you qualify for you get a percentage higher on your hourly. the base is $35 per hour. If you run a crane it is 30% more which is $45.50 per hour. The PMA offered increases on the base to $40 per hour. And Pension from $80k per year up to $88k per year. They also have the gold plated 100% health care plan. Heck as a Teamster we lost our 100% plan in the late 1970s. This is not about money. It is about more control of who hauls containers in and out of the port.

    I can tell you the UAW members in Michigan will be taking advantage of the right to work laws if the Union does not end the two tier system. It is not right to be doing the same job making $15 per hour when the old timer is making $28 per hour. They need to compromise and pay all full time about $22. That would be about equal with what VW & other transplants are paying their employees after 3 years.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I knew a longshoreman in Anchorage. From what he told me you couldn't get a job unless you knew someone or were related to someone already in the union. There was no way you could apply for a job at the port, get hired and then join the union - the union told the port who they could hire. Pretty closed society.

    Still wouldn't want his job though - he got hurt on the job and was stove up pretty bad last time I heard anything about him.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    VW recognizes anti-UAW worker group ACE at Tennessee plan (Reuters)

    "The ACE is an alternative to and has campaigned against the UAW union, which a year ago lost an election to be the sole representative of workers at the plant.

    The ACE proved to an outside auditor it had achieved support from at least 15 percent of the plant's hourly and salaried workers, VW said. The UAW two months ago proved support from at least 45 percent of hourly workers at the plant and also represents workers there.

    The VW policy allows increasing levels of access to plant management based on a group's support level. The UAW at 45 percent has more access to management than the ACE at 15 percent."
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    I really wonder if VW USA wants the UAW. Or if it is just pressure from German unions? Whatever the open shop concept that VW has made is brilliant IMO. It says hey we will work with any group. Just don't want to be showing favoritism. I don't think UAW wants another vote. If they lost it would be even bigger than last time. They were hoping Obama would try to push that Card Check BS through. No vote needed if you have 50% of the workforce signed up. ACE is also showing some initiative opening up their "Union" to everyone. It is fun to watch.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Well, the UAW's group represents 45% of the workers, and the way I read the article, VW gives them more face time than the 15 percenters. No idea whether that extra translates into any additional influence by the UAW.

    I really need to make a trip home and chat up my nephew who works for one of the auto suppliers down there. Funny when the weather is in the high 60s instead of single digits, the urge to leave town just isn't that strong. Seems like we were going to TN every four or five months from the UP. :)
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    stever said:

    Well, the UAW's group represents 45% of the workers, and the way I read the article, VW gives them more face time than the 15 percenters. No idea whether that extra translates into any additional influence by the UAW.

    I really need to make a trip home and chat up my nephew who works for one of the auto suppliers down there. Funny when the weather is in the high 60s instead of single digits, the urge to leave town just isn't that strong. Seems like we were going to TN every four or five months from the UP. :)

    We have had the nicest winter in San Diego I can ever remember. Makes it hard to leave or think about moving. Last 3 weeks 75-85 and never below 50 at night. We had one cold snap in December and hit 32 one night with about 3 nights in the mid 30s. The desert SW is nice in the winter.

    The UAW says they have about 50% signed into the pseudo union local. If it was really true why haven't they asked for another NLRB vote? If ACE keeps signing up hourly and salaried workers, it should muddy the playing field real good. Like the ACE leader said a large part of the employees do not want any union ACE or UAW. I also wonder how many of the people signing up are Temps from the agency? I don't think they would be allowed to vote in an election.

    The ACE proved to an outside auditor it had achieved support from at least 15 percent of the plant's hourly and salaried workers, VW said. The UAW two months ago proved support from at least 45 percent of hourly workers at the plant and also represents workers there.

    Moss said he hopes the ACE can convince anti-UAW workers who are anti-union to join his group. But, he said, it is difficult to convince anti-union workers to join any worker group.


    All the UAW is after is the $$$$. With 1500 dues payers they could send about half a million a year back to Michigan. Add to the fact VW is not selling that many Passats from the TN plant. VW sold 96k Passats in 2014 down from 109k in 2013. VW also made less net profit in 2014 than 2013. They let rival Toyota take back the profit crown. Not sure that will put VW in a generous mood if UAW comes in like the bullies they were in the past. I just don't see any UAW advantage for the workers.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I'm reading this out front catching the morning sun. Even though it's 44°F, I'm in shorts and had to strip my hoodie off. Kind of fun reading about batteries dying in Boston in a schadenfreude kind of way.

    Hadn't seen that about the Passat. But I gave up on trying to figure out VW years ago. It was a bit of an eye-opener when they Americanized it while decontenting it and it sold like hotcakes. VW fans weren't fooled though I guess.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited February 2015
    Good point. Seems like VW has been on a 7+ year refresh cycle forever.

    Back in the VW Bug days, that was a big selling point.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,192
    edited February 2015
    robr2 said:

    stever said:

    Hadn't seen that about the Passat. But I gave up on trying to figure out VW years ago. It was a bit of an eye-opener when they Americanized it while decontenting it and it sold like hotcakes. VW fans weren't fooled though I guess.

    The problem with the Passat is that VW hasn't really updated since it's introduction in 2012. It's the 4th year of production with barely any real changes to styling, options, et al. The biggest issue is it's staid styling. Since introduction, it's styling has been trumped by the Fusion, Accord, Camry, et al. The styling is inoffensive but the market isn't looking for that. Even VW has acknowledged that.

    My thoughts with VW is that I always liked them in spite of their issues. The positives were Germanic driving, simple but very nice interiors, excellent handling. The negatives were poor dealer service network, low reliability, and high repair costs.

    Since their "Americanization", they are bland, not nice inside, not good driving (I'm talking to you Jetta). Yet still unreliable and costly repairs at a poor dealer network. IMHO the disadvantages remain while the advantages went away. If I want a boring dull [email protected] sedan I can always buy a Corolla and get excellent reliability instead. I liked the previous model Passat a lot better than the current big bland one.

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    tlong said:

    robr2 said:

    stever said:

    Hadn't seen that about the Passat. But I gave up on trying to figure out VW years ago. It was a bit of an eye-opener when they Americanized it while decontenting it and it sold like hotcakes. VW fans weren't fooled though I guess.

    The problem with the Passat is that VW hasn't really updated since it's introduction in 2012. It's the 4th year of production with barely any real changes to styling, options, et al. The biggest issue is it's staid styling. Since introduction, it's styling has been trumped by the Fusion, Accord, Camry, et al. The styling is inoffensive but the market isn't looking for that. Even VW has acknowledged that.

    My thoughts with VW is that I always liked them in spite of their issues. The positives were Germanic driving, simple but very nice interiors, excellent handling. The negatives were poor dealer service network, low reliability, and high repair costs.

    Since their "Americanization", they are bland, not nice inside, not good driving (I'm talking to you Jetta). Yet still unreliable and costly repairs at a poor dealer network. IMHO the disadvantages remain while the advantages went away. If I want a boring dull [email protected] sedan I can always buy a Corolla and get excellent reliability instead. I liked the previous model Passat a lot better than the current big bland one.

    Try the new '15 GTI, it has a nice interior, drives nice, and should be quite reliable as it's basically my '06 A3 now with all the kinks worked out, all the fine tuning perfected, and still at a lower price.

    For real fun get the new Golf R.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    How much would it cost the UAW and Chrysler to send a check to every former Neon owner in the USA (that is still alive) for the entire purchase price of said Neon? It would be the honorable thing for them to do.

    1. 1st cars not maintained by their owners well you say.. NOPE, I babied it.

    2. Meant to be cheap? Well, it was $15K out the door for the fully loaded Neon Sport.

    3. Driven hard by young drivers... Yes, but if Big 3 Cars can't be driven then perhaps they should be designed with rev limiters at 3K RPM?????
    4. Let's just be honest and admit the Neon was a scam on the American people.

    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    How much would it cost the UAW and Chrysler to send a check to every former Neon owner in the USA (that is still alive) for the entire purchase price of said Neon? It would be the honorable thing for them to do.


    You must have been one of the unfortunate ones that bought a UAW built Neon. I hear the Mexican built ones are still going strong in the third World. :p
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    edited February 2015
    andres3 said:

    How much would it cost the UAW and Chrysler to send a check to every former Neon owner in the USA (that is still alive) for the entire purchase price of said Neon? It would be the honorable thing for them to do.


    1. 1st cars not maintained by their owners well you say.. NOPE, I babied it.

    2. Meant to be cheap? Well, it was $15K out the door for the fully loaded Neon Sport.

    3. Driven hard by young drivers... Yes, but if Big 3 Cars can't be driven then perhaps they should be designed with rev limiters at 3K RPM?????
    4. Let's just be honest and admit the Neon was a scam on the American people.

    Man are you still harping on this car your parents bought 20 years ago? In the words of Elsa - let it go.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    robr2 said:

    andres3 said:

    How much would it cost

    Man are you still harping on this car your parents bought 20 years ago? In the words of Elsa - let it go.
    X2

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Begs the age-old (in here) question of whether the problem was how it was screwed together, or design/engineering issues or supplier problems.

    Interesting article in the Washington Post today on Walker and RTW, at least related to public unions.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    stever said:

    Begs the age-old (in here) question of whether the problem was how it was screwed together, or design/engineering issues or supplier problems.

    Interesting article in the Washington Post today on Walker and RTW, at least related to public unions.

    The laws Walker pushed through were PRO TAX PAYER more than anti Union. I wish we had a Governor willing to take on the State controlling Unions. CA Tax Payers are looking at long term debt to the Union pension funds of somewhere between $400 to $700 billion. We are struggling to keep up with our debt obligations. RTW is more of a carrot to entice business to move into the state. If a person wants to stay in the union, they can stay in the Union. RTW only keeps the Union bosses looking out for the workers more than their own self interests.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited February 2015
    The piece is an early political hit piece, a la Governor Romney, from the Post. It's meant to stir
    up the unions that Walker as a candidate for President might decimate them again nationally in some
    way--sort of Bain-like activity.

    However, even though there is a primarily political message with sudden interest in Governor Walker, can't feel sorry for the unions. Those poor folks who had a 10% loss in take home pay?... They had their total retirement from the state paid for by the taxpayers. Their healthcare was totally paid for, if I understood correctly, in work years and retirement. Note, they also paid SS and Medicare.

    The last folks I heard about getting total healthcare payments were the union boss equivalents in the Ohio teachers association (not union). The field workers who helped negotiate for teachers were negotiating with their own bosses in the OEA and were negotiating for full healthcare to be kept. This at the same time they were telling teachers' local associations (not unions) to accept increases from maybe 10% teacher paid to 20% teacher paid.

    That's typical of the unions. Not sure what unions were discussed but a Louisville talk radio program had folks in the know on the program. They said while the workers' retirement funds were 70-80% funded, the separate fund for the folks who were union bosses and running the union was 103% funded.

    If the unions provide services or merit, RTW is not a threat. However, the union management parallels our national governmen(and California?) with the leaders in golden goose, lifetime jobs, and the working stiffs and taxpayers footing the bill.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    >If the unions provide services or merit, RTW is not a threat.

    That was what I took from the article - membership rates fell in half, and across party lines. Biggest gripe I'd have if I moved (back) to Wisconsin is that they exempted police and fire unions.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    edited February 2015
    stever said:

    >If the unions provide services or merit, RTW is not a threat.

    That was what I took from the article - membership rates fell in half, and across party lines. Biggest gripe I'd have if I moved (back) to Wisconsin is that they exempted police and fire unions.

    In Michigan, union membership has dropped in some of the weaker unions by a good amount. The more radical unions are able to strong arm their potential dropouts to keep paying. The threat of peer relation is a big factor.

    Our friends who recently moved to NW corner of SC (Walhalla) talk about how continually companies are moving in there with jobs and plants because of the low wages due to no unions. They are relatively close to Greenville. Those are jobs that don't go to Michigan or Ohio.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited February 2015
    Companies who marginalize their workers these days may have a bigger threat to worry about than unions. Imagine if all those Walmart workers talked on the internet (they do). And imagine is someone tweeted about a flash mob nationwide to do a sickout over pay and it took hold.

    Just who would Walmart negotiate with to get their workers (any sympathetic customers) back as they bleed green ink?

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,697
    stever said:

    Companies who marginalize their workers these days may have a bigger threat to worry about than unions. Imagine if all those Walmart workers talked on the internet (and they do). And imagine is someone tweeted about a flash mob nationwide to do a sickout over pay.

    Just who would Walmart negotiate with to get their workers (any sympathetic customers) back as they bleed green ink?

    Walmart's workers in this area are typically "non-caring" about the customer. The closest store has had several managers comment about their worker problem when my wife confronts them about things that happen in the store. They keep making mistakes in the ones they choose to employ.

    Last night I watched two workers at the third closest Walmart in our area spend 10-15 minutes talking in a rear aisle in front of TVs before both heading on out. I was looking for DVD players and looking at phones. Did either make eye contact to ask if they could help me? No. Lost productivity time.



    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

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