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  • jcb123jcb123 Member Posts: 18
    Thanks for the info, CarMan. My quoted monthly payment is $473.13. Your calculation of $444 + tax (6% in KY) = $470.64 per month. Difference is $2.49 per month. Looks as if the higher residual % offsets the differences in money factors?

    The price I quoted earlier apparently includes an acquisition fee of $550 that is being added to vehicle price. Seems as if my "out-the-door" payment should be $473.13 + tax + license. Sales Manager is saying out the door amount is $1,000.00 -- apparently they are trying to add some kind of "dealer prep" charge to the whole thing. My salesman (from another dealership owned by same group) called this a "pleasure of doing business with Swope Automotive" fee...

    This sounds a lot like cases I have heard of where local dealer duplicates the acquisition fee and calls it something else ... pure profit if my recollection is right ... any comments?
  • plutonium239plutonium239 Member Posts: 1
    Greetings,

    I’m hoping to get some advise on how to negotiate a lease on a pre-owned Nissan 350z. I figure this might not be a bad idea since the 350z holds it’s value very well and the biggest percentage of depreciation happens the first year (as with most cars) According to this site, the touring coupe depreciates $6011 it’s first year. Would it be logical to offer them msrp of a new model MINUS this amount as a good starting point?

    Thanks!
  • jaa37jaa37 Member Posts: 67
    I'm a little confused about how to determine a fair monthly payment. Let's say I get a $31,000 quote for a new XC70. The dealer tells me the residual is $20,000 after three years, leaving me with $11,000 to pay, plus interest. What's a good interest rate? 8 percent? 6 percent? Also, assuming I have enough cash, is there any disadvantage to putting down, say $2500, as long as I factor that money into the total lease price?
    Thanks!
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Carman,
    Any idea if there are incentives for the XC90?
    Also, please tell me the MF and % for 36m/12K

    Thanks again!
    Copper
  • bigbutrbigbutr Member Posts: 111
    I am looking into leasing either a Honda Accord EX V6 or a Mazda 6s. I know the Accord's hold their value as a look at a list on Edmunds showed a 49 percent value after five years and 60,000 miles.
    I'm just wondering what the residuals might be for the Mazda. I know it's new, which is good, and I'll only be leasing for three years (45,000 miles). I like the look of the 6, but do you think I'd be better off going with the Accord for value's sake?
  • josavjosav Member Posts: 1
    I have a 02 Excursion, leased with 80,000 miles on it. Mint condition. My lease still has 17 months left on it and im already over mileage. At the rate im going i will be 58,000 mi. over @ .15 a mile = $8000+ at lease end. What advice do you have for me as far as getting into a new vehicle and saving me the cost at the end of my lease? Should I get rid of vehicle now by trading it in or should I sell it myself. My buyout is $27,000.00
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    How did you get so far over the mileage? Did you move or change jobs?
    You will need to either buy at the end of the lease or pay the mileage penalties.
    If you trade it, you will have to add the charges due to the cost of the next vehicle so the lease can be paid off.
  • chicagorobchicagorob Member Posts: 12
    Thanks for the info, what would be the residual for a 24 month lease and money factor for the RX-8. Additionally, are all of these incentives on the 6 mt as well?
    Is there a lease calculator anywhere. Additionally is there any holdbaCK FOR rx8, should 300 above invoice - 4250 be what I should aim for.
    thanks,
    Rob
  • sugarsugar Member Posts: 1
    i have a friend that wants to upgrade her lease at the dealership she got the original lease from, but her lease isnt due for 2 yrs what are the penalties ect on this sit=uation? also do contracts vary from US and canada, or even dealership to dealership? all help much appreciated
  • erkerk Member Posts: 1
    has anyone heard or used General Car leasing company before? Their numbers seem too good to be true, and I'm wondering if it's a hoax. www.generalcar.com
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    We were going to buyout the lease on my husband's Highlander but we just decided against it because of the sales tax. It added an extra $1425 to the sale. This translated to an extra $34 a month at 4% interest. For the same monthly payment, we can easily get into a lease on a new car.

    This is also why I decided it wasn't worth it to try to sell my lease to make a profit - paying the taxes on the car eats up most of the profit.
  • rtolzrtolz Member Posts: 1
    My New York based lease ends at the stroke of midnight on December 31st and I was appalled to see how the leasing landscape has changed in this state in a couple of years. These balloon note alternatives require me to pay sales tax on the entire value of the car, not just the portion I'm going to be using/leasing. It seems to me that this is an unjustifiable increase in the cost of living for us New Yorkers, and that we're going to have to pay more than our friends living in neighboring states. That was my theory until I spoke with a local Subaru salesman who said that he thought that there would be no significant difference between a New Yorker on a balloon note and a New Jersey resident on a lease. This implies to me that the manufacturer is eating the additional sales tax cost, and I just find that hard to believe. Does anybody have any data comparing these alternatives. If I'm being charged hundreds of dollars more over the life of the balloon note compared to what someone would pay on a lease, I intend to fight for change in the law in NY. If there's no significant difference, why should I care? I suspect that there is indeed a significant difference, but I'd really like to see the data. Can anyone help?
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    Car_Man,
    I am trying to calculate lease payments and don't want to be surprised by numbers because I did the calculations incorrectly.

    What is the "cap cost" number that is used when figuring out the interest on a lease?

    From what I can tell, to determine depreciation you take the sale price of the vehicle and add incentives/rebates and your down to get the Cap Cost.

    When you figure out the interest on the lease, you add the Cap Cost and depreciation then multiply by the money factor. Is this cap cost number the exact same one that you used at the beginning including all of the incentives/rebates and your down in it?

    Thanks,
    Melissa
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    nycaguy,
    You might want to look into financing rates outside of VFNA. I'm getting lease quotes in So. Cal on an XC90 FWD for 48 mos with a MF of .00153 (with 730 FICO score) and a residual of 47%. On 42 mos, the MF is .00187 w/50% residual. I don't have a quote on a 36 mo lease, but from what I've read in the forums, it looks like the MF is still .00187 and the residual is around 55%.
    Melissa
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    Car_Man,
    Do you know the current MF and residual on the base model Touareg V6 AWD?
    Thanks,
    Melissa
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    It's becoming harder to lease in NY because of our lawsuit happy society. In NY, if the lessee is involved in an at-fault accident the lessor can be sued for damages because they are still the owner of the vehicle.
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    Could you give me numbers on a lease of a 04 RX-8 6 speed base model in green.I live in Massachusetts.My credit score is in the top 4%.I have never leased before.Is it true about the $4250 lease incentive on a 2 year lease?Thanks for your time.

    Chris
  • jaa37jaa37 Member Posts: 67
    I've never leased before -- I'm not sure I understand how to negotiate a good price. I'm looking at a Volvo XC70, as I mentioned before. Volvo's current offer is $350/mo plus $2,495 down. How do I solicit better offers from dealerships? I read the "10 steps" article, but I'm still not sure. Do I first negotiate a sales price? Thanks in dvance...sorry for pestering...
  • jrudickjrudick Member Posts: 1
    Car_man,

       What is the hidden percent cost called that the dealer can adjust on a lease. I think it is from zero to five percent on GM vehicles. Thank You....John
  • timrhontimrhon Member Posts: 1
    Car_Man or anyone,

    ... so if I sell my Sequoia or buyout myself I will pay salestax to the credit union.

    Will I have to pay the sales tax also if I trade early?
  • stacey_burkestacey_burke Member Posts: 88
    It is called the money factor. They give it as a decimal number that does not mean anything to a normal person. Multiply that money factor Times 2400 to get the real % of the lease. Example money factor on a lease .00071 * 2400 = 1.7% or .00118 * 2400 = 2.83%
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    jaa37,
    From what I can tell, the best way to lease is to negotiate the car price initially to get the car at or near the price you think is available in your area on the car. You also research the forums and dealerships for the best money factor and the residual value on the lease term you want. If you have good credit, make sure you let them know as this can translate to a better money factor (interest rate) and possibly a waived security deposit.

    Then you use the edmunds lease calculator to estimate your monthly payments. Keep in mind that any money you put down does not affect the value of the car in the end- the residual value (the buyout price) will always be the same so it doesn't pay for you to hand out a lot of money.

    Once you know all of these things, then you go to the dealerships to see what kind of monthly payment they can give you for the amount down you want to put. In the end, the down payment and the monthly payment are the numbers you have to live with, so your ultimate goal is to focus on those numbers.

    From what I've been seeing on the cars I'm looking at (XC90 and Touareg), the advertised lease specials are not that great. They are focusing on the monthly payment (which does not include sales tax) and they have big down payments involved. Ultimately, this translates to an inflated purchase price for the car. This is good for the dealers but not so good for the buyer. If you want a payment around what the advertised lease is going for, definitely focus on purchase price. It will save you money out of your pocket in the end.

    Hope this helps!
  • tinlittletinlittle Member Posts: 21
    Carman, I hope you would browse this board and answer my question this weekend.

    I am trying to take advantage of Honda Finacing's special leave program on Odyssey. But reading through this board and honda's website I get conflicting results. You mentioned that the EX-L model has .00113 MF and 68% residual for 24m/12,000 per year lease. And some other posters mentioned 71% residual and .00103 MF for the same kind of lease. And when I tried Honda's advertised lease payment through a lease calculator, it shows indeed a 68% residual but a much higher MF at around .00234.

    So my question is what is the current MF and residual on EX-L for 24 month/12,000 per year that is supposed to run through 8/2/2004. And what about EX-L with Navigation. Is there a model like EX (without L) or LX that has the higher residual of 71%?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
  • otis12otis12 Member Posts: 171
    The lease on my vehicle will soon be up. I'd like to buy it. But I know the value of the car is less than the buyout price in my contract. Will GMAC negotiate if I present them with the current real-world price this vehicle is fetching in the marketplace? Or is the contract buyout price carved in stone? Thanks.
  • mazdax605mazdax605 Member Posts: 89
    I just got back from my local dealer.They offer me the car(base 6 speed in green) for invoice(their number was $250 over edmunds price) minus the $4250 for a 2 year 12k mile a year price.The money factor was a high .00305(7.4%).The residual was $17680(65% on manual cars).Acquisition fee of $475.The grand total was $309 a month for 24 months.That includes $15 a month sales tax,and $30 a month for excise tax.The total due at inception is $309 first,$325 security,$475 acq fee,and a plate fee.grand total around $1200.Does this sound good?I wish the MF was alot lower but then again they are giving a hefty rebate.Oh yeah i have great credit according to free credit report.com.I was in the 780 range so getting the best MF should not be an issue.

    Chris
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    Thanks to Car-Man for your advice and everyone who posted their info here. It helped me land these two great deals in Southern California today!

    Touareg V6 AWD with Premium II and Navigation Packages
     $4320 off MSRP of $42355 for Sale Price of $38035
    48 month lease, 12K mi, MF: .00101 (2.4% interest), residual value 45%
    $1093 down plus 1st mo., security dep, fees and taxes
    Pretax monthly payment: $464

    Volvo XC90 FWD with Premium and Versatility Packages
    $5065 off MSRP of $40920 for Sale Price of $35855
    48 month lease, 12K mi, MF: .00153 (3.7% interest), residual value 47%
    0 down plus 1st mo., security dep, fees and taxes
    Pretax monthly payment: $421

    Today the advertised lease rate in the local paper on this exact XC90 model was $479/mo this makes my deal better than the advertised special by $2784!
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    Regarding the Touareg, I forgot to add that I couldn't get the advertised $5K off MSRP because I took the special lease rate of .00101. Instead, I was able to get him to go below invoice and give up most of the holdback on a car that a few months ago was selling "Value-Added" to the MSRP.

    Also, the XC90 included metallic paint.
  • tierramomtierramom Member Posts: 15
    Sorry!
    I just realized that on the Touareg I posted my monthly payment WITH tax.
    My pretax monthly payment is $428.54.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, ranajo. The only charge that you left out is BMW Financial Services' lease acquisition fee of $525. You will either have to pay this at lease signing or have it added into your truck's capitalized cost. Other than that, your calculations appear to be right on the money. Good job.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi eruss44. I would be more than happy to answer any questions that you have, but I am not exactly sure what section of the Town Hall you are talking about. It would be easier if you would just cut and paste your question in this discussion. Thanks.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hopefully there wasn't any confusion about the models here, pgill. The .00095 money factor that I mentioned before is for the 2004 BMW X3. BMW Financial Services' base money factor for the 2004 X5 is indeed .00125. If I told anyone that the X5 had the lower money factor earlier, I apologize.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, jcb123. Those payments sure are pretty close. A difference of only $2 per month isn't that big a deal. Infiniti Financial Services charges an acquisition fee of $550 on every vehicle that it leases, so you will have to pay this if you lease through them. Dealers are paid by the factory to prep vehicles. Any "dealer prep" charge that your dealer adds to your deal is nothing more than a way for them to pad their profit.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi plutonium239. You should be able to get an estimate of what Edmunds.com believes the used vehicle that you are looking at is worth by looking up its True Market Value in the following section of this site: Used Cars.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello jaa37. Once someone explains how it is done to you, it really is not that difficult to calculate a lease payment on a vehicle. There is a great article on this subject here at Edmunds.com. Click on the following link to check it out: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

    Volvo is providing quite a bit of lease support on the 2004 XC70 at this time. It has very low lease money factors, or interest rates if you want to call them that, on this car right now. We're talking in the 1% to 2% range, which is much lower than the 6% to 8% that you had expected. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what sort of money factor you can expect to pay on this wagon right now if you tell me how long you plan on leasing it for.

    As far as making a down payment goes, I always advise consumers against doing so when leasing. I say this for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is stolen and never recovered or totaled in an accident during your lease term, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leases do nothing to reduce vehicles' lease-end purchase prices. So the lease-end purchase price of the XC70 that you are considering would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $2,500 down or had made absolutely no down payment. Consumers can and should lease any vehicle that they would like without making any sort of down payment. The only things that you should have to pay at lease signing are your vehicle's first month's payment, a security deposit that is equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $50 increment, Volvo Finance's lease acquisition fee of $595, and any sort of taxes or state fees that are required.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Copper. Volvo is providing a little lease support on the '04 XC90 right now, but nothing like it is providing on its other models. Volvo Finance's current 36 month, 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for the '04 XC90 2.5T AWD are .00235 and 56%, respectively. As far as any other incentives go, there is an owner loyalty program on the XC90 that gives $1,000 to current Volvo Finance lessees if they lease this model. There is also $2,000 dealer cash on XC90 2.5T models leased through banks other than Volvo Finance. You may find that you are better off using this cash to negotiate a lower capitalized cost and then leasing through an independent bank.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    The Honda Accord definitely has much higher residual values than the Mazda6 does, bigbutr. The 3 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2004 Honda Accord EX without navigation is currently 54%. This is a lot higher than the 44% 3 year, 15k residual value of an '04 Mazda6 i. If I was in the market for one of these two cars, I personally would go with the Accord.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I am sorry to hear that you are so far over your lease's mileage allowance, josav. Unfortunately, you have put yourself in a difficult position because the only way that you will be able to get out of paying a huge excess mileage penalty is to purchase your Excursion at the end of your lease. I probably wouldn't try to get out of your lease early if I was in your situation because your bank definitely will not negotiate the purchase price with you at this point and you may owe money for your remaining lease payments. In buying at the end of your term, you may have to pay more than market value for it, but probably not $8,000+ more. When you are a month or two away from the scheduled end of your lease, please a call to Ford Motor Credit, or whichever bank you are leasing it through, to see how much it will cost you to purchase your truck. Some banks will actually negotiate this figure. This is the exception rather than the rule, but you have nothing to lose by trying to get them to come down on the purchase option price. If your initial contact at the bank is not willing to work with you, try to work your way up the ladder a few rungs to some sort of manager. They often have more authority to work with you. When you speak with them, make them think that you are right at your mileage limit. If you are way over they stand to get a huge mileage penalty from you and if you are way under they may want your truck back. There certainly is no guarantee that they will be willing to work with you, but it's worth a shot. If the difference between the price that you are quoted and what this truck is worth on the open market is less than your mileage penalty, you should be able to save money by buying your truck and either continuing to drive it or selling it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, Rob. I believe that Mazda's current 24 month, 12,000 miles per year base lease money factor and residual value for an '04 RX-8 with a manual transmission should be around .00315 and 65% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier. You can either use the formula that is outlined in the following article to calculate your lease payment, Calculate Your Own Lease Payment, or you can use the lease calculator that is available here at Edmunds.com: Edmunds.com Lease Calculator. $300 over invoice, minus all of the incentives would probably be a good starting point for your negotiations, but I would not be surprised if dealers wanted a few hundred dollars more than that for this car. Give it a shot and make sure to let us know how everything turns out.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi sugar. Unfortunately, it is going to cost your friend if she wants to get out of her current lease two years prior to its scheduled end date. The only way she can get out of a lease this early is to purchase her leased vehicle. If she does so, the bank that she leased through may want all of the remaining lease payments that she owes, plus the price of her car. As you can imagine this could end up being very expensive. Her dealer does not have any authority to let her out of her contract early. In order to find out exactly how much money it will cost her to do so, she should place a call directly to the bank that she is leasing through.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Leasing in New York certainly is a mess right now, rtolz. The ridiculous vicarious liability laws that exist in your state that allow the banks that vehicles are being leased through to be sued in the event of an accident have made leasing much more expensive. In fact, many banks have completely ceased leasing in your state. Many of the financial institutions that still do business there have now offer balloon notes instead of leases. Balloon notes prevent them from being exposed to the potential lawsuits that leasing does because the bank's name is not on the title. Some manufacturers are indeed paying the excess taxes that are associated with balloon notes for consumers in states that have vicarious liability issues, but not all companies will. I don't know how much of an impact one consumer can have, but it definitely is in your best interest to fight the silly laws that exist in your state. Consumers are being forced to pay more to lease vehicles just so lawyers can line their pockets through frivolous lawsuits.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Melissa. The capitalized cost of your leased vehicle is essentially the selling price that you are able to negotiate for it (including the discounts from any available incentives) minus any sort of down payment that you make. Remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Also remember that consumer can and should lease any vehicle that they are interested in without making any sort of down payment. The depreciation portion of your lease payment should be based upon a straight percentage of your vehicle's original full MSRP, including the MSRPs of any options that can be residualized. You should be able to answer any questions that you have on how to calculate lease payments by reading the following articles that are available here at Edmunds.com: Leasing GlossaryCalculate Your Own Lease Payment.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Melissa, I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what this truck's lease program is currently like, but in order for me to do so, I need you to tell me how long you want to lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. Also, Volkswagen's July lease program is only scheduled to run through tomorrow, August 2nd. If you want me to tell you about VW's new August program, post a reminder for me in this discussion a few days after that.

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  • kjw26kjw26 Member Posts: 3
    I am not very familar with leasing, but through online research learned that rent charge was cap cost (minus down payment) + residual multiplied by some factor. My question is, is this factor solely the interest rate or can the dealers add hidden fees to this number to inflate it? thanks. Kelsey
  • ubeeubee Member Posts: 3
    car_man I was quoted 24k for 04 pathfinderSE dealer is advertising $299 mth. $0 down on 36month lease,whats the catch?
  • stevekalstevekal Member Posts: 13
    Hi,

    2 questions, 1 general, and 1 specific.

    I'm going to lease a car for my business, and have commercial plates put on it. Does that affect the lease at all?

    2. What's the MF, residual, and approx. lease payment on the following car: 2004 PT Cruiser Touring edition, with a MSRP of $22,195 (TMV of $21,149) (minus a cash allowance of $3,000 (I believe I can also use the Chrysler Financing incentive of $1,000)) ... 36 months, 15,000 miles per year. I'll be trading in a car worth about $2,000. Thanks so much for your help!
  • kjw26kjw26 Member Posts: 3
    I asked the previous question about the rent charge because I believe that I have been deceived by the finance manager on my new lease (signed last night). The details are as follows: 2004 Acura TL auto w/o navigation. Adj cap cost of 29567.07 with a residual of 17752.35. The finance mgr told me that I have excellent credit and do not have to worry about not qualifying for the best rate (score in high 700's). When I asked him what the rate was, I cant remember the exact number, but it was less than 7%. I signed away like an idiot. When I got home, I looked more carefully over the agreement and saw a rent charge of 7492.38. If this is based on interest alone, the rate would be about 15.8% which is absurd. I called the finance dept today and ended up only speaking to my sales mgr. He told me that they have nothing to do with the rent charge and that it is figured out and set standard by American Honda. As long as I qualify for the lease, no matter how much over my credit score is, I will have the same interest rate. Is this true? The Honda/Acura websites are down today for updates so I cannot see any lease details/offers. At this point, can you tell me what my options are, if I have any. Should I call the dealership again tomorrow or should I try American Honda? Can I change my mind an buy the car instead since my monthly payment will be about the same with an outside loan? Please help!! Thanks again. Kelsey

    PS the lease was 12K/yr for 42months with the base monthly payment of $459.69 + 6% Florida state tax.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello mazdax605. It is true that when all of the cash incentives that are available on a 2 year lease of the 2004 Mazda RX-8 are added up they come to a total of $4,250. Assuming that you qualify for Mazda's top credit score, and it sounds like you do, its captive finance company's 2 year, 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for an '04 RX-8 with a manual transmission should currently be .00315 and 65%, respectively.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're not pestering me at all, jaa37. I'm always glad to help. I usually advise everyone who is new to the world of leasing to check out the following informative article that is available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car, but it looks as though you already have. That is a good start. When leasing the first thing that you should do is negotiate an attractive selling price on the vehicle that you are interested in. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for them. Once you have arrived at an attractive selling price, combine that information with the vehicle's full MSRP, and the lease money factor and residual value that are being offered by its captive finance company and you can calculate an approximate lease payment for your car. The formula that you will need to do so is outlined in the following article: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. If you tell me how long you want to lease this wagon for and how many miles per year you want to be able to drive it, I should be able to give you an idea of what its current lease program is like.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    All fixed, kyfdx. Thanks for catching that. I was able to revise my last post because the edit window had not closed yet. I forgot to add the 2% low mileage adder for the most recent RX-8 post. It's all better now.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,257
    Ditto... As usual, you are the man!!

    That deal, along with the Odyssey are about the best 2 year leases that I've ever seen.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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