Paint and Body Care

pjyoung · December 2000

At the very least get Z1, Z2, and Z7. That should put you just over $25. I would also suggest (but not require) Z6. A little goes a very long way. A bottle of Z2 should give you at least 10 applications on a Civic.

Zaino doesn't "haze" to a really "white" look like most other waxes. That makes some people think that they haven't applied enough. Don't let the illusion fool you. I have a white car, and the hardest part about using Zaino is that it is very hard to tell where I have been, the haze is that minor.

It's easy to apply, but just make sure that you let it dry thoroughly before wiping it off (no buffing required). Also, try to avoid getting it on any textured plastic (just like you would with any other wax).

daverose · December 2000

Suma33, if it's not a question of money or time, I recommend that you clay your car regardless of its age before you seal it with Zaino. Unless you picked it up at the factory coming off the assembly line, it has probably been exposed to the industrial pollutants of the factory it was assembled at while sitting on the factory lot, and its various modes of transit to get to you are likely to have included rail and/or sitting near a rail yard. You would want to get the paint as clean as possible before you apply protectant and claying does that. In my limited experience, Zaino's clay is about the same price as brands you can get off-the-shelf. Check erazer.com for more information on why claying is a good idea.

If it's a matter of time, do the "soup to nuts" treatment a section at a time; just be sure that you use the Z7 Wash Concentrate and wash the ENTIRE vehicle at least once and, if possible, each time you go to do a section, especially if it's over a period of time that's more than a couple or three days. The wash has polish and UV protectant in it and will provide some level of protection in those areas you haven't yet gotten to with clay, PolishLok, and your Zaino polish(es) of choice.

I also have a "on the one hand and on the other" for you. You MIGHT save yourself some money by finding out from Sal Zaino if there is a Distributor or Dealer near you. While I don't know how many of us there are and each is free to set their own prices, it's my limited experience that most of us charge the same price as directly from Zaino. You might find that you can get it quicker and find a source that, unlike Zaino, will accept credit cards, if that's important to you. You may find that it's quicker and cheaper, at least insofar as the shipping, to do it that way. Sal's email address is sal@zainobros.com. That's not much effort that could pay off.

If you find that you have to order directly from Zaino, I would stack as much on the order to spread that shipping charge over as many products as possible. My first retail purchase was for one of each of the products, except for Z3, the Polish for regular or non-clearcoat, and two each of the Z2 and Z6, but then we're talking two mini-vans and that's what I thought would carry me through at least a year and, I hoped, possibly three. Well, I became so enthusiastic that I started using my products on others' cars to show off the stuff; now it's a sideline. I now even use Z3 on my wiper arms, one of the sets of wheels, and parts of the engine that are not clearcoated and plan to use 3 on my siding and window frames since I live right on a busy street and these areas get dirty quickly.

automophile · December 2000

All of the above is good advice, but you can get a LOT more at the Zaino forum here from dozens of happy, experienced users. Just type "Zaino" in the search box at the top.

Enjoy! It is well worth it!!

koury · January 2001

mike_542 · January 2001

Soft seals, those around doors, hoods and trunk lids, present a number of problems. They are constantly being flexed and crushed while being subjected to hostile environments. To prevent problems, I use zymöl Seal, which is derived from glycerin, a natural plant anti-oxidizing agent. Seal notably prolongs the useful life of rubber seals by releasing trapped solvents and restoring original moisture.

Heat, cold, washing and exposure to solvent-based cleaners and run-of-the-mill treatments damage the finish of your vinyl upholstery and vinyl trim. Some vinyl manufacturing methods use formaldehyde as the base. Introducing solvent- or formaldehyde-based treatments can accelerate vinyl deterioration by changing the original chemical balance. I reccomend zymöl Vinyl Protectant, a solvent-free, formaldehyde-free, oil-based feeding product that releases solvents and restores moisture, too!

Hope this helps! Michael

bnormann · January 2001

...you guys are not deleting your test posts?

bnormann
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Maintenance & Repair Message Board

brislance1 · January 2001

I recently brought my car, (white) to a bodyshop to have a small hood dent taken out. The hood looks great when I view it straight on, but has many pock marks spread over the entire hood when you look at the hood in a horizontal or side view manner in the shade. I called the body shop and was told to bring it in and it would be an easy job to buff out the imperfections. They painted only a small area, but clear coated the entire hood. What did they do wrong? Can this problem be corrected as easily as I was told, or am I in big trouble? Would appreciate any help from someone who has seen a problem like this.

alcan · January 2001

It sounds like you're describing "fish eyes", pitting and marking of the paint caused by the presence of silicone in the air (Armorall, tire dressing, etc). It became such a problem at one dealership I worked at with the mechanical and paint shops in the same building that the parts dept. had to stop carrying any aerosols with silicone content. The proper way to correct it is to strip it and repaint.

hawiianavowner · January 2001

The fisheyes could also have been caused by your use of polishes/waxes that had silicone compounds in them according to previous posts. However if the bodyshop was going to cleacoat your entire hood, they should have prepped better, which would include stripping off any wax compounds.

maryg2 · January 2001

Just washed and waxed my new Accord EX and took advice of some Edmunds participants to use Maguiars car wash and their paste wax. Both are excellent products, and the car looks great. Even though I am NOT in great physical shape, the whole process took only 2 hrs. (Another hour or so spent with Lexol products on vinyl and leather inside.) My question: do I really need the Maguiars swirl remover? It's another step, so I did not use it, and I don't have any swirls! I was thinking of returning it to Pep Boys.

sddlw · January 2001

Meguier's Swirl Remover is something that you would use at the very beginning of the process. If you used it now, the wax you just put on will be removed. It is a medium-fine grit abrasive used to polish out small scratces in the top layer of paint or clear coat.

You should wash your car with a strong detergent (Dawn) to remove the crud and old wax, then polish it with Swirl Remover, then follow the Swirl Remover with a fine grit polish like Meguier's Show Car Polish. The finer grit will not remove the swirls as well, but will provide a better shine in the end. A good orbital buffer is an absolute must for this kind of work, it is hard work.

After all this, your car should be blindingly shiny and ready for the wax or polymer protectant of your choice. If you do not have swirls, but want the best shine, skip the Swirl Remover and go right to the Show Car Polish.

All that having been said, not many people treat their cars to this kind of rejuvenation process. It can be very rewarding though. If your paint is is pretty good shape, but dull and swirly, it can make it look nearly new again.

mike_542 · January 2001

I tried both Pinnacle Souverian and Zaino, and I feel that the two are the best waxes. I would like you hear your opinions, and which one do YOU prefer. Thank you!

maryg2 · January 2001

Thanks for reminding me, it's Meguiars with an ME, but I believe it's ARS. I'll check in the morning, LOL!

It sounds like alot more work than I want, so I'll return the swirl remover, especially since the car is new. But please tell me if I messed up--a friend said you aren't supposed to wax until the car is 3 months old. Did I do any permanent damage? (Of course it rained the day after I waxed it, so no one could tell.)

sddlw · January 2001

The 3 months is an old rule of thumb to allow the paint to cure. The paint processes that are used today are much better than a few years ago and can be waxed practially right off the assembly line. Nowdays even the paint shops that do repair work normally recommend only a couple weeks.

pblevine · January 2001

I agree with sddlw; wax the car now. Not only do manufacturers use a better/faster painting process now, but your car probably was stored at the factory for at least a week before shipment. And the shipping took time too.

shellz · January 2001

Hi, a school kid took it upon himself to see if my 2000 Volvo had dent resistant doors while it was sitting in the parking lot. From what I've found out, the guy threw himself against the door until he put a dint about two inches in diameter in the side. It's not too deep, but it's fairly noticeable, and I think it can be seen with a quick glance. I'm trying to figure out what should be done about this dent. But if I were to get it repaired, does anyone out there know how much it would cost? It's a lease car, that worries me a bit more too.

mike_542 · January 2001

I love Zaino, but I sometimes don't have the time to keep using it. Is there are product, that lasts for a long time such as Nu Finish, that works well after a shiny finish created by Zaino.

sddlw · January 2001

I've used Dent Pro for these kinds of things. As long as there is no crease in the metal or chips in the paint they can work wonders. Check out http://www.dentpro.com/
In San Diego they charge about $90 to come out. They say that they charge by the size of the job, but the last time I used them, the guy took out about 12 minor door dings for the base price.

automophile · January 2001

Nothing you put over Zaino will have the optical clarity and shine of Zaino, so don't even bother. However, you can probably go 4-6 months between Zaino treatments unless your finish gets really abused, and it only takes 30-60 minutes to re-do, so how can you not have an hour twice a year to keep you car shiny and protected? Hire a neighbor kid to do it for you.

janbee · January 2001

Does anyone know of a product that will be safe to use on a black car for removing sap??? I dont know how I got sap on the car bieng that it is the middle of winter but I want it off!!! thanks for any input!

daverose · January 2001

Try Avon Skin-So-Soft bath oil. Soak it into a cotton ball and let the cotton ball sit on the sap for a while. That should help break it up. I've used it on road tar successfully with some elbow grease, hot water, and repeated applications as the tar lump got smaller then disappeared. SSS has many uses beyond being a bath oil, particularly as a cleaner/solvent; it can also be used as a mosquito repellant.

janbee · January 2001

I have never heard of that...Im not sure where to get avon products here in canada but Im sure some store sells it, I will keep my eyes open! thanks!

daverose · January 2001

Avon is a cosmetics and gift product line sold in the US "door-to-door" by Avon representatives. Since it is sold the same way in at least Mexico and Japan, I should think there is some presence in Canada. It may NOT be likely to be carried in the cosmetics section of a department or drug store. There are some Avon stores. You might also find a local "mom and pop" store that carries the products. Try your local commercial telephone directory (Yellow Pages in the US) and/or do an on-line search.

vernlew · January 2001

Janbee,
I have successfully used Turtle Wax Bug & Tar Remover (available at Wal-Mart) to remove tree sap, bugs, and tar...however, you will have to re-wax afterwards, as you probably would with any product you choose to do this job. Good Luck...
Vern

vernlew · January 2001

Also,
3M makes a product specifically labeled to remove tree sap...also available at Wal-Mart in the automotive section...
Vern

kaus · January 2001

my 10 year old Maxima needs to have the front bumper painted. The color is pearl white. I already had bad experiences with two seem-to-be professional body shops. They simply could not match the color (not any where close to 90%).

I'm just so reluctant to try it again. Please let me hear your comments on how to find a shop that will be capable of doing the job (I'm in Philadelphia, PA). I actually asked a local Nissan dealer and they said it will probably cost me over $300. I mean can I really trust Nissan dealers? I understand it's just difficult to match a faded color, especially with plastic and metal. But I'm sure quite a few of you here may have the same problem. Please let me know how you did it. Another body shop (quite far from my place) quoted me $400. Does it seem reasonable?

Many thanks in advance
Kaus

pblevine · January 2001

I only have limited experience here. But I did have my bumper repainted on an EX V6 Honda which is dark emerald green. White is most likely harder to match as fading will be easier to see in a light color. Anyway, $300 sounds like its in the ball park. In my case, the body shop (a very good one), used a photocell equipped computer to determine the fading offset from the factory paint number listed for my car. The result was actually perfect. They told that with such matching equipment, they rarely made mistakes. They took three days to complete the job. I'm probably very lucky with my choice of body shops, and have been told that all such shops are not equal. So, its "let the buyer beware". Perhaps you should get recommendations and/or see an example of their work. Good luck.

sddlw · January 2001

Another approach might be to rejuvinate the old paint by using a polish/glaze to remove the oxidation. The underlying paint should be a close match to the original. Whether or not a body shop paints your bumper and/or uses an optical match for color, you'll really like your car better with all the old oxidation removed. A body shop or detailer will do this for you, or you can do it yourself.

I have found that for this Meguiar's professional products "Swirl Remover" followed by "Show Car Polish" applied with a good orbital buffer just can't be beat. But keep in mind, you are removing the uppermost paint or clearcoat by doing this, and it's an all day job in itself. These are abrasive products, they are not waxes or polymers. Once the polishing is done, you should apply the wax or polymer of your choice.

BTW: In San Diego I use a high end shop called Amatos. But their minimum job is about $1000. However, everything is dismantled, not masked. They do many coats of perfect matched paint. At least 24 hours between coats. At least 7 days for the smalest job. This is were you'll see all the show cars, Rolls, etc. I won't go anywhere else.

maryg2 · January 2001

I was having trouble selling a white 96 Honda LX and figured it might be because both my bumpers were badly scraped, and the back one was a little dented (OK, I am not the best parker in the world and have a tendence to scrape walls and fences). My husband took it into a body shop in So. California, and they wanted $600 to repaint and repair both bumpers and buff the whole car. A few weeks later I took it by the same place and told the guy I couldn't afford $600, so could he do just one bumper for half? He said he thought I looked like a nice lady and would do both for $450 without the body buffing. I asked him what he could do for $300. I can't believe he was willing to do both bumpers for $300 and even touched up some little nicks on the body with touch up paint. The bumpers came out looking absolutely brand new, certainly better than the rest of the car. And it sold immediately. So shop around and perhaps ask to see some other work they are doing. Maybe they've done a car the same color as yours before. It doesn't hurt to be really nice, stop by on a slow day, and try to get the best deal you can. I know I will take my new car back there if I ever need any body work done again.

antlerkody · January 2001

Hi all! I live in the Phoenix area and want to get my folks' car completely detailed for them before they head back to Nebraska. Is there anyone in the Phx area that will do a good job. I would do it myself, but have limited time available. Want to get the car thoroughly cleaned and waxed, vacuumed, etc. I don't suppose that there is anyone that uses the Zaino system. Thanks in advance for any recommendations!

adc100 · January 2001

on the plastic bumpers, a regular wax, or something like Nu Vinyl or what?

Thanks

alcan · January 2001

Bumper covers use the same paint as the body sheet metal, but with more flex agent to prevent cracking. Sooo........

toyotaguy315 · January 2001

I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice on the best way to deal with a problem. I was making a sharp turn into a wash bay and was watching the passenger side when I should have been watching the drivers. I hit one of those AWFUL cement posts with my front bumper. No major damage but I do have some slight scratches on my lovely Corolla. I removed most of the residual paint with a 3M buffing compound. It is almost unoticable until close=up. I was thinking about having some touch-up work done. What is your input.

koury · January 2001

I've been using Zaino on my black Lincoln AS for about a year, and after several Z5 applications, the swirl marks are as bad as ever. I realize it will be impossible to completely eliminate them on a black car, but I've come to the conclusion that it must be the wash cloth, although I thought I bought a quality wash pad from one of the leading on-line car care sites. So, can anyone suggest a safe product that's easy on the paint? Thanks in advance!!!

mike_542 · January 2001

I reccomend a Sheepskin wash mitt, such as http://properautocare.com/sheepwas.html. You can use for applying Zaino, too! To remove swirl marks try non-whitening toothpaste or Meguiar's Swirl Remover.

sddlw · January 2001

Sal Zaino recommends 100% cotton towels for washing and everything after. I've had good success with this strategy. But cheap towels can set you back on the swirls. I agree with mike_542 on Meguiar's professional products, Swirl Remover, and I'd recommend Show Car Polish after as it is a finer grit for the best possible polish and shine. Apply with a good orbital buffer. One that has a good balance and doesn't "bounce" around but stays a nice and stable when on. In a pinch, it is truely amazing what toothpaste will do. It also contains fine silica for polishing your teeth. I am one of the Zaino religion, and it does a remarkable job of hiding the fine swirls after several coats, but I too have had to get rid of deeper swirls that Zaino just would not fill and hide. The glazes and polishes are the way to go at this point. These are the same kind of products that many high end paint shops use beteen coats to get that super smooth finish.

dnguyen65 · January 2001

I wonder if anyone can give me some advice on how
to remove wax residue from plastic surface.

Thanks a lot

jjardine0 · February 2001

I bought a 95 Accord in October, 2000. It had a rust problem on the two rear quarter panels, so I took it to a Ford dealer's body shop, and spent $600 to have it fixed, and another $100 for an undercoat. Now, 3.5 months later, I can see rust forming where the body panel meets the rear bumper on one side - exactly where it was fixed.
Now, I understand Canadian winters can be hard on a car, but is it reasonable to have $600 worth of work only last 3-4 months? The body shop says that they don't guarantee any rust work, and that no body shop would. They say this type of work could last a few months or a few years, and there is nothing I or they can do about it.

Even though they say there is no guarantee, is there anything I can do? Specifically, if there are any Canadian readers out there, what is an appropriate course of action? I'm not a vindictive person, but I think it's reasonable to expect a $600 repair to last longer than 3-4 months.

Thanks
Jeff J

tronsr1 · February 2001

Somewhere on this board,your question has been discussed.There were several answers..a good wax remover from your local auto supply store, WD40.. {that is what I use]and believe it or not...peanut butter {the oil in the p.b. draws out the wax}..then apply black on black another product at your auto store...some even have used black shoe polish...I had some wax on my grey vinyl trim {Ford Escape] I took some WD40 on a small piece of cloth, wiped the area real good, then wiped it dry and that worked for me. HOPE THIS HELPS...
Wax Remover NORT

bretfraz · February 2001

In case you haven't found a detailer in Phoenix, try this site for a referral:

http://www.mobileworks.com/

xfiles · February 2001

I am not a professional body man, but I did a complete body job, and painted it myself....it's now 2 yrs and all areas ar holding up perfect.

I had a accident on the rear hatch, and left it over a year to rust, and after applying a standard RUST TREATMENT (many brands available) to the metal just before priming and painting .....even this area held up perfectly! Bottom line is the metal was not prepared right by the body shop before painting. Look at all the old rust bucket antiques restored after being severly rusted, the body work is holding up. Only a few months of life is absolutely rediculous.....and I would tell them that. Obviously this company doesn't care about quality or you as a customer.

The key is proper prep of the bare metal to kill all existing rust (most treatments convert exsting rust to black rust which is stable). Paint only sticks on clean metal free of rust. Cleansed metal should be painted the same day, metal begins to rust almost immediatley.

superduty01 · February 2001

My superduty 01 truck is white. It is two m onths old and I have rust specks that are appearing on the side of the truck. Is it rail dust from the rail road shipping, or comming from the brakes? I have heard both.
Ford does't know.
Do you have the same problem , and how do you get it off? thanks superduty01

robr2 · February 2001

superduty01 - do you park next to or near a brick building?? My Accord had spots like that only on one side. I finally figured out that when it rained, something was leeching out of the bricks and landing on my car. I had it buffed once and now use clay to remove it if it comes back. Oh yeah, I try not to park next to my building.

Good Luck.

joe166 · February 2001

I think there are any number of ways to remove the superficial spots that seem to be attracted to white cars. If it is an airborne contaminant it might just come off if you "wax" the car. I use the quotes because some people prefer polymers to waxes and it might come off with either. I would try clay to remove the marks first. It is relatively easy but time consuming. Go to either the Zaino site or the Store bought waxes site and read about clay. It is sold in auto stores such as Pep Boys and Auto Zone. It looks like silly putty. It comes with an instant spray wax to use as a lubricang. Mothers makes it as does Meguiars. There is a web site for another which I always forget the proper name of but it is something like ezerase. You just spray the lubricant liberally and rub the clay on the surface. Most clays are not too abrasive and they allegedly pick up contaminants. You have to keep kneading the clay to keep the contaminants to the inside. It also will remove surface contaminants that you can't see so you will end up with an incredibly smooth surface. Try it, the clay usually costs less then $20. When I saw how smooth it made my car I did the whole thing, but there is no law requiring it so you might only want to do the flat surfaces. Afterward you should put some protection on the surface to make it harder for whatever is doing this to damage your paint. I would resist using abrasives such as many polishes and polishing or rubbing compounds. Obviously they will work but they are not usually easier and they are designed to cut some part of the finish of the car off the top. It may not matter, but I don't like doing that unless there is no option.

win12 · February 2001

I purchased a new 94 Explorer (white) and after a while I noticed lots of pin head sized rust spots all up and down the sides and covering the tailgate. The con-men at the local Ford body shop told me it was "Rail Dust" from initial transportation of the vehicle and "They are all like that" blow off. With no contamination on the hood or roof this didn't seem right. Upon closer inspection the contamination seemed to be coming from the wheel wells and spraying back.
A few more inquires confirmed my suspicions that it was metallic residue coming from the brake lining material. I confronted the etch that tried to sell me the rail dust story and he didn't want to comment on this problem. After much hard work with a clay bar treatment I got it cleaned up. The Explorer was traded on a 2001 F150 in Oct. I had faith that Ford would resolve the problem over a period of six years so I opted for white colored vehicle. Shame on me - after just four months the problems is back. I am very disappointed in Ford for not taking care of this problem. I haven't heard of any other manufacturers having this trouble. It certainly takes some of the pride of ownership out of driving this vehicle. I understand that Raybestos has a Kevlar based material with no metallic and wonder if changing brake linings would solve the problem.

lspangler · February 2001

My '96 white Chevrolet Pickup in White had the same issue. It's not a manufacture problem but a pollution problem. Lobby to allow asbestos in brakes and we'll get longer lasting, less squeeky brakes and no iron deposits on the sides of our vehicles. Unfortunately, the rust spots are the best alternative right now to asbestos.

pooboo · February 2001

Does anyone have a ball park figure on how much it'd be to have a black jeep repainted to a funner color.. such as.. metallic blue or soemthing? any suggestions?

setab · February 2001

Seems to me that someone said that sealant for new cars was unnecessary, and simply a way for a dealer to run up the bill!
Our new Saab will be ready for pickup next Tues. and I have had a call from the dealer asking if I want a paint sealant? ("Only $299....protects against salt, bugs, etc.")
What's the story now? Should do it or not?
Thanks!

sddlw · February 2001

pooboo, you can spend $300 or $7000 painting a vehicle. You will get what you pay for. A high quality paint job will involve a complete disassemble of all trim, windows, etc., (NO masking), wet sanding prep, many layers of high quality paint shot in a dust-free and silicone-free environment, 24 hour dry times and hand polishing in between each coat, color paint and clear coats, and a final very fine polish of the final clear coat. This kind of paint job will be as good (or even better) than factory, and will take a week to 10 days to do and is very labor intensive. There are advantages to factory paint, but nowadays ther any polishing between layers and the new water based "environmentally friendly" paints tend to have that "orange peel" look and chip easily. A high end paint shop can do amazing things these days.

If you go for the low cost paint job, they will probably mask the trim and windows, do a quick rough-up of the top layer of existing paint, shoot a couple of coats of low-cost paint, as quick as possible, and send you on your way. If you are trying to cover a dark paint with a light colored paint, they may not put an adequet number of coats on to truely hide the original color, and the insides of the door jams and interior of the car, trunk, engine compartment, etc. probably won't get painted.

sddlw · February 2001

One of the true dealer rip offs. Wax your car 2-3 times a year and you will have a better, longer lasting layer of protection on your car. It really is a disservice to people for the dealers to imply that these sealants will last and protect for years. They don't. It's just hundreds of dollars for a fancy polymer-wax job.

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