Services--How often, and what to do?

135

Comments

  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    what is your point? because the dealer/shop has a reputation for being bad, that excuses you from doing preventative maintenance? like the car realizes "oh well, there's no one good to work on me, so i'll just run great without being maintained"?

    as far as the antenna mast, wouldn't you feel dumb if it came flying off and you had to replace it when a simple act of giving it a quick check with your hand every whatever interval would have stopped it from happening?

    you want to vent about bad dealers/shops? fine. we've all run into them, and some of them are worth venting about. but don't give people the impression that just because "you can't trust anyone" that they shouldn't do PM on their cars.

    -Chris
  • mikefm39mikefm39 Member Posts: 4
    My point is that I believe some (like check antenna mast) of the PM is unnecessary. I've never had a vehicle, except my CRV, where they recommend any maintenance on the mast. Does anyone know why this is recommended on Hondas?
  • sirradsirrad Member Posts: 7
    Not going back to the dealer for routine service and not doing routine maintenance are two different things.

    The recommended maintenance tasks outlined by the automaker are necessary to keep your machine in good working order. Not allowing yourself to be gouged by a dealer for it doesn't mean avoiding it altogether. If you DIY, or get a local mechanic that you 'trust', this should be the same as going to any dealer as long as prescribe tasks are done.

    As for checking power antennae mast, you'll be surprised how much dirt and gunk gets into the sections. A little wipe and lube will keep it in good order, and not burn out the antennae motor or strip the retraction cable.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    let's face it, how many of us really check over our cars (brakes, suspension parts, etc.) that often? i check the oil and the tire pressure weekly, and peek around a little underneath the hood while i'm there, but in all honesty, that's about it... so i really don't mind going to my ever friendly bmw dealer every 20k and paying them 5 or 6 hundred bucks to really go over it good and check stuff out... i drive 140 miles a day, and that's cheap enough peace of mind, imo...

    as far as the antenna thing... probably it would survive without it being cleaned... but since it would take probably 30 seconds to do it, it'd be a drag to have to spend the money to get it replaced because some kinda gunk built up in there that you could have cleaned out...

    -Chris
  • mikefm39mikefm39 Member Posts: 4
    The antenna mast on my vehicle is not powered. Are there any other manufacturers that recommend this maintenance item?

    One thing I'm learning from owning Hondas is that the manufacturer holds the dealers accountable financially for customer service. The two Honda dealers I've dealt with literally bend over backwards for customer service.

    In exchange for this Honda builds reliable popular vehicles, but not enough of them to meet demand allowing dealers to get close to MSRP and sometimes higher. Honda also (IMHO) recommends many maintenance items that can easily be done yourself. I'm still tickled pink by the "check antenna mast" one.
  • zhscarzhscar Member Posts: 7
    Here is a simple question: I need to do the first oil change soon, do I have to go to a dealership for oil and filter change? If I take it to a garage, will that affect my warranty? Just hate going to any dealership. Thanks for your help!

    ZHS
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    no. save your receipts. you can do it yourself if you like. as long as you have the paperwork, you should be ok.

    good luck.

    -Chris
  • zhscarzhscar Member Posts: 7
    Thanks, Chris. I also called Nissan today and they said the same thing.

    ZHS
  • solara11solara11 Member Posts: 78
    No one likes to go to the dealer for anything, except the continental breakfast, and beverages in the waiting room(My local Toyota dealer). A plus is if it is a good dealership, you not only get everything topped off and checked for $21 to $24, but if you ask, a free car wash too!
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    i don't mind going to the dealer. the problem is, to drop off my car in the morning, get a ride, etc. just to get the oil changed is a bit of a hassle, that's all.

    zhs. you are welcome. one more thing. i'd avoid the quick lube places if i were you. 99% of the time you'll be ok there. but...

    -Chris
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Hello,
    I am kinda confused with this one, I know they will check alot of things like belts, fluids etc.... now, my problem is that, I have some aftermarket stuff in and on my engine, what happens then? ie I have K&N filter for the air intake, redline tranny and rear diff, modified a/c and power steering belts due to lightweight pulley. Basically, there's nothing much they can change or maintain. So will they still charge me a bundle? Will I lose my warranty if I don't do that service? thanks.
  • mickeyg1mickeyg1 Member Posts: 6
    Most dealers will do a 21 point inspection and oil change for about $21.95. Your warranty should still be okay as long as you do your regular oil changes. Since you changed your Tranny and differential I would presume that your engine would be the only component still under warranty, 3 year, 36,000 or 5 year 60,000? What kind of car is it? Honda civic? Do you Have an extended warranty to 100,000 miles? You should still be okay with the oil changes and inspections.
  • djhawaiidjhawaii Member Posts: 1
    I have a '95 V-8 Tbird. I've gotten the 30k and 60 k service done at the dealership, and have had the brakes done once, and a 'serp' belt replaced. Other than that, it's been oil/lube every 3k. I want to keep the car for 18 more months, but don't want to put much more money into it. I currently has 93k. Can I avoid the 90k service and stick with the oil changes or am I risking a catastrophe? How much would the 90k service cost?
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    Since the 90,000 mile service is not much more than a tune up,oil change,trans oil change and major inspection,if you have been doing the basic services on your vehicle,replacing the sparkplugs and having the trans serviced may be all you need.A 90,000 mile service can run around $350+ parts,as the flat rate time is 4.7 to 5.5 hours.They do make some minor adjustments to linkages and a few other little things.Personally,I would think that if it isn't under warranty and you have kept the services up,I would forgo it and save the money.Or get an independant shop estimate on it.No need to go to a dealer if it isn;t undeer warranty.
  • md_techmd_tech Member Posts: 84
    Opatience is right if you have been maintaining your vehicle you can skip the 90k. Even though the dealer techs would really appreciate that kind of (gravy-which means easy work.) If your planning to get rid of the car anyway save that 300+ for something else.

    Touring Around,
    Kristina
  • pat455pat455 Member Posts: 603
    Hi Kristina!

    Welcome to the Maintenance & Repair Conference. Glad to have you drop by.

    For others - md_tech is the new co-host in Our Turn. She has been in the automotive field for several years now, is a Maryland State Inspector and is working on her ASE certification.

    I imagine if she has time to hang out over here from time to time, she'll be quite helpful!

    Pat
    Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
  • dmendeldmendel Member Posts: 16
    I will be moving at the end of July, making a 2,000 mile drive in my 99 Corolla. I will be at about 14K at that point and am wondering if I should have my 15K service before I make the trip or once I get to my destination, when I'll be at 16K. I would feel better about having the whole thing checked out before the long trip and am also inclined to think that an early 15K service is better than a late one.
  • werkingwerking Member Posts: 431
    dmendel -
    (editor's note: i am not a mechanic). having said that, you have two choices (obviously). you can get it done before the trip and have peace of mind during the trip. or, you can do what so many others do on a regular basis and get away with it - put it off. well no kidding, glad we got the landmark comments out of the way.
    anyways, here's what i would do. is the car running well? do you consider it to be reliable? has it ever let you down in the past? if you can answer these questions yes, yes, and no, i would drive it the 2k miles and THEN get the service done. why? because you're getting the most out of your old(er) parts and fluids. then, after wearing them out...you get them changed. if you didn't answer yes, yes, and no, then i would get it serviced before the trip. remember, part of that 15k service is prob'ly going to be an oil/filter change and lube job. these should happen every 3-7.5k miles you drive anyways, depending on your driving habits. i'm guessing you're prob'ly in the 6-7.5k range with that kind of car. now, if you get that service done before your trip, you're looking at another service shortly thereafter. if you wait till you get there, you get it done and it's done for the next 3 months or so. call me cheap...i don't think you'll hurt a thing by waiting till you finish the trip. others will tell you it's $200-$300 worth of peace of mind (or cheap insurance). i say, $20 is cheap insurance...you have to make the call...

    kyle
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    get it done before... why take the chance? you are going to be a long ways from home...

    early service is ALWAYS better than late, and that applies to everything in life, not just cars...

    -Chris
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    My wife has a 2000 Venture which has those "change oil" lights, except after the first 7K it still hadn't lit up so I broke down and brought it in. Now after another 5K its still hasn't lit up. I usually change every 5K. My dealer says 3K is recommended but he would certainly not wait way over that for the light to come on. If so why have such a system at all! Should I be going by this computerized gizmo or just stick to a mileage schedule.
    Some of my friends who have big Bimmers/MBs etc claim they go to almost 10K before their oil change lights light up (and then the dealer comes to their house to do it!).
    Several years ago I was driving in England in a Jetta, the owners manual says no change till 10K (miles not km). My brother had the same year US model and the recommended change was the usual 3K type thing. I don't know for a fact that the engine is different but why the big difference? Someone told me once that the DoD did a study on vehicles concerning frequent oil changes and 3K changes were totally unnecessary. I don't mind paying 20 bucks every few months for peace of mind but that must be an awful lot of oil used in this country which is wasted! If nothing else, bringing it in sometimes allows other problems to be noticed early (like my cracked CV boots!).
  • buickman2buickman2 Member Posts: 6
    I think 3,000 mile oil changes are excessive, A lot of new cars say 7,500 miles between changes and I don't think they would tell you that on a new car that has at least 36,000 to go under factory coverage.
    Regarding long term warrenty's on replacement brakes, mufflers, etc. It is all "hipe", unless you are going to drive that car forever. They know the average person keeps their car for seven years, And if you go back for that free second muffler, etc there are always extras the will find to charge you for. There is no free lunch. :-)
    Norm
  • buickman2buickman2 Member Posts: 6
    Check the service book, most GM cars require the unit to be reset every time you chang oil, and most places taht change your oil, even the dealers forget to do it. On my Buick there is a small hole under the glove compartment, use a small pencil or pen, follow instruction . On my 93 La Sabre, turn on the ignition switch, do not start the engine,reach in the hole , you will feel a small button, push it with you pencil, watch the change oil light, it will flash three times, and you are done.
  • steve240steve240 Member Posts: 1
    I own a plumbing company and have a varity of older trucks and vans. Is there a good book or website to get a general maintance sch. to follow for all my older vehicles
  • jeradjerad Member Posts: 2
    I am a guy who likes to do my own basic maintenance (i.e. oil and other fluid changes, etc.) In the past all of the cars I have owned have called for 10-30 oil. I recently purchased an explorer and the manual states that I should use 5-30 oil. I was talking to my father in law and he happened to ask me what kind of oil I planned on using in my new car and I told him 5-30 as stated in the vehicle manual. He told me that I would be crazy to use 5-30 oil in anything and that I should use 10-30. His reasoning was that the 5-30 would not perform well in very low temperatures which we sometimes see here, but it seems that (by the depiction in the vehicle manual) 5-30 oil covers a broader range of temperatures than does 10-30. Does anyone have any suggestions for me about which oil I should use. My gut says to follow the manual but I would like to know if there is any real basis in what my father in law is telling me or if he is just repeating something he may have heard from someone else.
  • pat455pat455 Member Posts: 603
    I'll bet the differences have been discussed in our Engine Oil topic (#851), or its predecessor.

    Somebody might be able to answer your question here, but if you want to look through that topic while you are waiting, you can click on that highlighted link to see it. (The archived part of the discussion will be linked in post 0 if you want to go back even further.)

    Pat
    Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    You should use what the manual says , especially if its still under factory warranty!
    As a Minnesotan, 5w 30 was routine in winter for most cars even if 10w 30 was specified. Most garages here recommend 5 30 for winter. It performs better than 10 30 at low temps as there is less friction when you start which is when you really need oil!
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    the 5w30 is *better* than the 10w30 when it's cold... follow the manual...

    -Chris
  • jeradjerad Member Posts: 2
    I will use 5w30.
  • schaffs2schaffs2 Member Posts: 12
    After a few bad episodes with spark plugs, on ending in punching a hole in the number 3 piston of my beloved Toyota Cressida and junking the engine, I would like some advice on what spark plugs to put in the replacement for the Toyota, a 95 Mitsubishi Mirage LS with the 1.8L 16 valve four. I'm debating between NGK and Bosch Platinums. Any advice would be appreciated.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Better plug. Bosch is overrated and Consumer Reports tested the Bosch Plus 4 plugs. No difference. I have them in an older Corsica, no difeerence either. I have had good luck with the NGK in my Toyota
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    If I were you (post piston aeration) I'd make a real effort to meet some independent Toyota mechanics and solicit some advice. These are people who live and breath Toyota's and will know whats best for your Crashida. I have an Infiniti and I thought I knew what the best plugs were for my car (Bosch plats). An Infiniti mechanic told me use nothing else but the factory NGK's. I asked a couple of folks in my car club and they experimented with other plugs until the tech told them to go back to NGK, and they were all happy with the results.

    Just like with legal and medical stuff, the pros know the best things to use.
  • adrian01adrian01 Member Posts: 12
    Does anyone know how to change the engine coolant in a 00 I30 infiniti? Where the drains are, etc. and how much it coolant it holds. Thanks..
  • gdoublegdouble Member Posts: 18
    how often should i change my transmission fluid
    on my 96 honda accord ex (it is a manual trans)?
    what else should i be thinking of doing at the
    90k interval? i bought the car with 45k on it,
    and haven't done much besides oil changes/tire
    rotations/etc.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Actually, most manual transmission oils (could be either ATF or gear oil) are good for life as they do not incur the heat and wear and tear of an automatic. However, if you wish you could have this done either yourself or garage. I would suggest a synthetic ATF or gear oil as it will shift smoother, especially in cold weather and protect better. Either Mobil 1 or Amsoil
  • pat455pat455 Member Posts: 603
    I just wanted to let you know that we have an experienced Honda technician hanging out in Honda Accord Problems Part 2 if you want to check in with him as well.

    He goes by auburn63. You can just click on that highlighted link to go to that topic.

    Pat
    Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
  • jetfixr2jetfixr2 Member Posts: 8
    I tried NGK plugs in a 4.3l TBI Chevy engine after a tune-up, with little change in performance. I've been told that NGK's actually burn cooler than conventional, but I don't know. Thought about putting them in my newer 4.3l Vortec. Possibly meant for cars???
    What's a good truck plug? I tried to contact GM, but they said that my local dealer would be able to tell me. A lot of good that did. If I can't get it from the horse's mouth, where do I go?
  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    Your objective in selecting spark plugs should be to obtain the correct heat range; too cool can cause problems just as can a plug type that's too hot. Plug manufacturers generally produce each style of plug in several heat ranges. The color of the used plug's electrodes, the character of the deposits, and the rate of erosion indicate the suitability of the plug. An experienced mechanic can "read" them for you. If it is necessary to change the heat range slightly, suggest you have a shop or a good parts store show you a heat range chart for several brands of plugs so you may chose an alternate plug that's not too much of a change. NGK plugs are good but several others are also good. Plugs should be chosen for clean burning and reasonable life in a given engine. Good performance will result. Please don't expect big gains in power or economy through your choice of spark plug unless the previous plug was very poorly suited.
  • pumpkinpumpkin Member Posts: 5
    I own a '99 Toyota Solara and it is due for its 15,000 scheduled maintenance. I made an appointment with the dealership where I purchased the car to have this work done. The service department told me that the cost of this maintenance is $240 and they would need to work on the car 2-3 hours. I asked him to tell me what they were going to do that would cost so much and take so long. He said, "An oil change, tire rotation and balancing, new air filter, inspect the brakes, and just check to see if that everything is OK with the car in general". I don't believe that the parts and labor to perform these services justifies a $240 price tag! I don't want to void my warranty, but I certainly don't want to overpay for service. Am I getting ripped off or what?!
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    At 15,000 miles you do not need an air filter, recommended in manual is 30,000 minimum. You are not voiding any warranty by not doing it. do not ever say DO A 15,000 or 30,000 mile service. A rip off. AT 15,000 ask only to have the following done. Oil change/filter if over 5,000, tire rotation if over 5,000 ( no need to balance if no problem) and forget the brakes.. They have wear indicators, and at 15,000 very unlikely. Should cost oil/filter $22, rotation $12. Nothing else needed. My camry is a 92 with 123,000 miles. Dealer has his own schedule geared to making him more money, not protecting your car or your warranty. Go by the manual and you are fine
  • carnut30carnut30 Member Posts: 51
    ...and you should take the used oil filter home and cut it in half to see whether anything has been trapped. Odds are there will be nothing. If so, the oil filter change can be 60,000 miles.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Member Posts: 802
    change your own air filter, oil, brake pads... and much much more? Visit Edmund's Edmund's How To section. Let us know what you think?

    Happy Motoring. ;-)

    Pocahontas,
    Edmunds.com/Roving Host
  • joe111joe111 Member Posts: 28
    I agree, most people are brainwashed into changing their oil every 3000 miles; this is over kill in my mind. I just bought a new Honda and I plan to change the oil every 5000 miles with a filter change at 10,000 miles. The book calls for 7,500 oil changes and 15,000 filter changes, so my system is a little more frequent than whats called for. If my driving could be considered severe, I might go with the 3,000 reccomendation, but it isn't. I used to change the oil filter with every 5,000 oil change, but I've decided this is unnesesary. To me it's not a question of saving money, it just doesn't make sense to throw away perfectly good oil and filters. The oil is just as black at 3,000 miles as it is at 5,000 miles. Do you agree?
  • carnut30carnut30 Member Posts: 51
    ...You may feel that you have to change the oil filter when the mfgr. recommends so that the warranty remains in force; this is usually at every other oil change. Once out of warranty, cut open the next used oil filter and look inside. If there is nothing there, the change interval can then be 60,000 miles or more.
    But if your car's oil is just as black at 3,000 miles and at 5,000 miles its engineers did not do a good job of keeping air away from the oil. Engine oil is oxidized by oxygen when hot. Well-designed engines of the last 20-30 years do not blacken their oil for 5,000 to 10,000 miles; that is why some mfgrs. recommend changes as little as every 10,000 miles. Perhaps you car has an air leak into the crankcase. The worst engines for oil blackening I ever noticed were a 1964 BMW 1800ti, which blackened oil in 1,500 miles; and a 1971 Dodge Dart 6-cyl, ditto. The best have been SAAB engines.
    Unless you are doing a lot of short trips or racing you can use the mfgrs. recommended change intervals. There are probably conservative by a factor of 2 since the mfgr. does not care now much it costs you or the environment to change the oil; but would not take a chance on providing a free engine replacement by recommending too long an interval.
  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    If the fluid passing through a filter is quite clean, the filter media pores will remain open and the pressure differential across the filter will remain low. Accordingly, as Carnut30 indicates, under these conditions the filter can be used for a very long time. However, because the cost of automotive oil filters is low and there is some chance of clogging the filter pores with particles that are too small to see, I believe most of us would be be very reluctant to consider change intervals that exceed the manufacturer's recommendation.
  • amoraamora Member Posts: 204
    Use AC DELCO sparking plugs....have had '88, 91, 94, 99 S10's with 4.3L Vortec engines, '88 & 94 have gone over 200,000 mi. For Oil flt use AC DELCO UPF 52, best one out there. Use any 5W-30 API SJ rated oil you want. Same with air filter; however K @ N is best. GM engines work best with
    GM parts....

    Regards

    Andy
  • j_colemanj_coleman Member Posts: 143
    Car dealerships burn me. The previous poster is right about not asking the dealership for a XXX-mile service, as they will surely take you to the cleaners on this. I have also noticed that they never give a written estimate of the service work that they are doing, and the cost for each item. Sometimes they even change their prices for services like oil changes or tire rotations. I had a dealer try to charge me $80 labor for two air filters (one engine air filter and one passenger compartment air filter). This was in addition to the $40 parts cost for the filters. $120 for air filters? Give me a break. Then they try to justify their rip-off price - "Well, there are two retaining bolts that need to be removed" So what? Is that an hour of labor? I guess we either have to do the work ourselves or take it to a trusted mechanic. The latter can be very difficult to find.
  • carnut30carnut30 Member Posts: 51
    ...which, I believe, have paper elements that do the actual filtering — the paper looks like coffee filters or laboratory filter paper rated "fast" as it would have to be to get a fast flow rate thru the filter element. The fast paper filters have an effective pore size of about 10 microns. You can see particles that pass thru such paper as haze quite easily. Very slow papers that give clear liquid are not used because of flow problems. Note that used engine oil is not only yellow, brown or black as it is oxidized, but that is is not clear or transparent either. The small particles that pass the filter are visible as haze and are not expected to damage the engine. Larger particles caught in the filter will be visible clearly on inspection, and, if present, the filter change intervals can be what the mfgr. recommends.
  • hooferhoofer Member Posts: 43
    I keep my vehicles running and looking like new for over 10 years/200,000 miles by a system of regular monthly checks (fluids, tire pressure, lights, etc.) and tracking of the scheduled maintenance.

    I call my system Proper Maintenance. It is the best mix of breakdown, scheduled, and predictive maintenance and yields the best economy, reliability, and safety from your second largest investment: your vehicle.

    You don't have to have expensive tools or extensive training to master Proper Maintenance. I have no formal automotive training myself.

    I always follow the Origninal Equipment Manufacturer's (OEM) "severe" schedule, regardless of the type of driving that you do. Remember that the OEM's motivation is to prevent repairs during the 36/36 warranty period, but keep a steady supply of folks needing new cars.

    Even those schedules are guidelines and there are cases (Chrysler transmissions come to mind) where one should exceed the OEM guidelines.

    Changing oil without changing the oil filter is like mowing the lawn in August, showering, and then puting your dirty clothes back on. You are going to pollute the new oil.

    You can't properly evaluate oil condition with the Ol' Mark I eyeball.

    Considering the cost of engine repairs or replacement, oil changes are insignificant.

    I do spectrographic oil analysis twice a year (every other oil change) on my engines and at least once per year on my transmissions. This tells you if you have excessive wear metals, contaminants, etc. in the oil. This is the type of evaluation you should use if you are seriously considering extending oil change intervals (outside the warranty period of course).

    The tests cost $7.50 each - the catch is that you have to buy them a 6-pack at a time. Get the tollfree number for Schaeffer Manufacturing at their website www.schaefferoil.com if you are interested. They UPS the kits to your door for $45 plus tax. They are good for any petroleum based lubricant (engine oil, manual tranny, AT, etc.)

    If anyone would like a free copy of my Proper Maintenance checklists, email me at hooferpm@cs.com

    I'm working on a website so that they can be downloaded for the future, but I am happy to email them now. The only "cost" is that you give me feedback on their ease of use, effectiveness, suggestions for improvement, etc.

    best of luck
  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    Thanks for the information on small-particle discoloration of motor oil. I don't disagree. My concern, however, is with particles that are only slightly larger than the effective pore size; say 10 to 20 microns with a ~10 micron filter. Such particles will tend to lodge in the pores and will not be visible on the filter paper surface. An accumulation of such material will ultimately raise the differential pressure across the filter ... increasing the possibility of opening the by-pass valve. It's my guess that particles in this size range are not too numerous but with a usage of 1500 hours or more, I would be concerned. With due respect for your obvious high level of knowledge in this area, do you have information that particles in the 10 to 20 micron range will not be present in motor oil?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Yes, they will be present and that is what oil analysis will show ie: silicon at 30 ppm (parts per million). This number is usually absolute so that when it reaches a cut off point determined by the lab it is red flagged as being too high. Wear metal particles on the other hand are not absolute, so that if you use extended drains you need to look at the mileage driven in conjunction with the particle count. Thus, 50 ppm for dirt means you need an oil change regardless of mileage. However, 15 ppm of iron at 3,000 is basically the same as 60 ppm at 12,000 miles on the oil. Most particles showing up in analysis are too small to damage the engine.
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