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Comments
I think that it's good when discussions like this take place because it tends to demystify these new fangled computer controlled engines. Sadly, computers in cars have become a source of revenue for rip-off artists. Now don't get me wrong. I believe that there are thousands of good honest auto mechanics out there and god bless them all. I am more than willing to pay a good mechanic good money for a job well done.
It has to do with CA fuel additives and poor fuel quality. Honestly, GM and the Fuel companies are simply pointing fingers. But the bottom line is I have a huge problem and I was hoping to get some advise.
Basically I have a 1999 Chevy C/K 1500 extended cab pickup truck with a huge flaw. My understanding is that it has to do with the fuel
quality here in California.
I do know that this problem has been going on for quite some time as I would reference a letter C99066 dated November, 1999 directed to the
attention of all Chevy owners of 96/97/98 models S-10, Blazer, Astro, C/K Pickup, Tahoe, Suburban, Chevy Van/Express or ‘P’ truck that is registered in California equipped with a 4.3L, V6, 5.0L V8 or 5.7L V8 engine.
The letter goes on to say that due to deposit build up on the sequential Central Port Fuel Injector SCPI poppet valves, they may cause the injectors to stick and/or remain closed. The letter goes on to say most fuels in California cause this condition. The letter indicates that GM is extending the window of the warranty to 10 years or 100,000 miles.
To date my 1999 truck has 20,000 miles on it and it has been in the shop on several occasions due to the "service engine soon light" Additionally, checks/repairs to the injection system have also been necessary. On two of the occasions 3 of the 8 injectors have been replaced and now I am having more sticking problems. At this point I have requested all injectors be replaced.
Seems logical to me. But GM won't budge. Dealer is saying it's a political issue and fuel companies say it's a injector flaw.
I have opened a case file with GM to monitor the issue but I was wondering if anyone here could share any information or perhaps Opatience, maybe you could direct me to a helpful website? Hopefully there are other Chevy owners who may read this posting and share more information on the issue...
Thanks all...
Alan
The ONLY solvent that will have any effect on the deposits occurring on poppet valves is: "PORT FUEL INJECTOR GASOLINE DETERGENT" (P/N 12345104) (IN CANADA USE P/N 12345515).
I don't want to mess us my car by driving it too much with this failed part, and I WOULD HOPE the service people wouldn't want that either. Is it OK to drive over the road with this "failed" part. I already have about 500 miles since the light first came one (as i got the "perhaps the gas tank lid wasn't put back on right, if it's running ok,don't worry about it" line when I called in.)
If someone can let me know ASAP i'd sure appreciate it! I'll check back later. Thanks. Julie
:-)
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
You need to take the car to a place that will figure out what is actually wrong, rather than simply taking the most recent code and replacing whatever that suggests.
Chris
#63-65-02
SUBJECT: MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) MAY BE ON, DTC 29 OR 410 SET, AIR FUSE BLOWS (INCREASE WIRE AND FUSE SIZE)
MODELS: 1993-96 CHEVROLET CAMARO 1993-96 PONTIAC FIREBIRD WITH 5.7L ENGINE ONLY (VIN P - RPO LT1)
CONDITION:
SOME OWNERS MAY COMMENT THAT THE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) MAY BE ON. DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) 29 (ON 1993-95 MODELS) OR 410 (ON 1996 MODELS) IS SET. THE AIR FUSE (#7) IN THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER WILL BE BLOWN.
CAUSE:
THE AIR PUMP FUSE AND WIRING ARE NOT ADEQUATE TO PREVENT THE FUSE FROM BLOWING UNDER SOME CONDITIONS. THE AIR PUMP OPERATES ONLY ON A COLD START UP, BEFORE THE ENGINE GOES INTO CLOSED-LOOP OPERATION.
CORRECTION:
A 25 AMP FUSE, AND WIRING INCREASED FROM .8MM (18 GAUGE) TO 1.0MM (16 GAUGE), WENT INTO PRODUCTION APPROXIMATELY 11-29-95.
NORMALLY, THE AIR PUMP WILL NOT BE DAMAGED AND WILL NOT HAVE TO BE REPLACED. TO VERIFY THAT THE AIR PUMP IS STILL OPERATIONAL, REPLACE THE FUSE, THEN USE THE TECH 1 TO OPERATE THE PUMP FOLLOWING THE DIRECTIONS IN DTC 29 CHART IN THE SERVICE MANUAL. THE PUMP SHOULD RUN AND DELIVER AIR TO THE ENGINE PORTS. LISTEN FOR ANY UNUSUAL NOISES THAT COULD INDICATE BEARING PROBLEMS. IF ANY INDICATION OF WATER IS FOUND, REPLACE THE PUMP. THE STEADY STATE CURRENT DRAW OF THE PUMP SHOULD BE NO MORE THAN 15 AMPS. IF THE PUMP OPERATES NORMALLY, IT WILL NOT HAVE TO BE REPLACED.
1993-95 VEHICLES ================
USE THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE TO CHANGE THE AIR PUMP FUSE TO 25 AMPS, INCREASE THE WIRE SIZE FROM THE AIR PUMP RELAY TO THE AIR PUMP, AND UPDATE THE LABEL ON THE COVER OF THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER. THE WIRING DIAGRAM FOR THIS CIRCUIT IS ON PAGE 8A-21-3 OF THE 1995 SERVICE MANUAL.
1. DISCONNECT THE NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE.
2. REMOVE THE AIR CLEANER/MASS AIR FLOW (MAF) SENSOR ASSEMBLY.
3. A. REMOVE THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE WIRING ON THE BOTTOM.
B. REMOVE THE AIR PUMP RELAY.
C. REMOVE TERMINAL E4 (TWO RED WIRES ATTACHED). CUT THE OLD TERMINAL OFF.
D. CRIMP A 36 INCH (900MM) LENGTH OF NEW 1.0MM (16 GAUGE) RED WIRE, AND THE EXISTING 1.0MM RED WIRE, TO NEW TERMINAL, P/N 12015870. SOLDER THE CONNECTION.
IMPORTANT: SOME VEHICLES MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT WITH BOTH RED WIRES OF THE SAME GAGE. IN THIS CASE, USE AN OHMMETER TO DETERMINE WHICH WIRE TO RECONNECT. CONNECT ONE LEAD OF THE OHMMETER TO TERMINAL "A" AT THE AIR PUMP CONNECTOR. TOUCH THE OTHER LEAD TO EACH OF THE TWO RED WIRES. THE ONE THAT HAS VERY LOW RESISTANCE (CLOSE TO "0") IS THE WIRE THAT WILL NOT BE USED. THIS IS THE WIRE THAT GOES TO TERMINAL "A". CUT IT OFF AND TAPE IT.
E. INSERT THE TERMINAL INTO THE ELECTRICAL CENTER. REINSTALL THE AIR PUMP RELAY.
F. ROUTE THE NEW WIRE TO THE AIR PUMP USING THE OLD WIRE AS A GUIDE. SECURE THE WIRE AS NEEDED TO PREVENT CUTTING OR RUBBING.
4. A. REMOVE THE CONNECTOR FROM THE AIR PUMP.
B. REMOVE TERMINAL "A" FROM THE CONNECTOR; CUT OFF AND DISCARD THE OLD TERMINAL. CAREFULLY REMOVE THE OLD SEAL FROM THE TERMINAL AND REUSE IT.
C. CUT OFF ANY EXCESS LENGTH OF NEW WIRE. CRIMP AND SOLDER A NEW TERMINAL, P/N 12048074, TO THE NEW 1.0MM WIRE. REUSE THE SEAL FROM ABOVE.
D. INSTALL THE TERMINAL INTO THE CONNECTOR, THEN REATTACH THE CONNECTOR TO THE AIR PUMP.
5. A. REINSTALL THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER, THEN CONNECT THE NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE. REINSTALL THE AIR CLEANER/ MAF SENSOR ASSEMBLY.
B. INSTALL A 25 AMP FUSE IN THE AIR PUMP (#7) LOCATION.
C. CLEAN THE PRESENT LABEL ON THE INSIDE COVER OF THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER, THEN CUT OUT JUST THE "25 AMP" PART OF LABEL, P/N 12191559, AND APPLY IT OVER THE EXISTING LABEL.
D. VERIFY THAT THE AIR PUMP OPERATES.
1996 MODELS ===========
USE THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE TO CHANGE THE AIR PUMP FUSE TO 25 AMPS, INCREASE THE WIRE SIZE FROM THE A/P-FAN FUSE TO THE AIR PUMP RELAY, AND ADD A NEW LABEL TO THE COVER OF THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER. THE WIRING DIAGRAM FOR THIS CIRCUIT IS ON PAGE 6E-664 OF THE 1996 SERVICE MANUAL.
IMPORTANT: THE WIRING DIAGRAM SHOWS THE WIRE FROM S189 TO TERMINAL "A" ON THE AIR PUMP AS .8MM. HOWEVER, IT IS ACTUALLY 1.0MM AND WILL NOT HAVE TO BE REPLACED.
1. DISCONNECT NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE.
2. A. REMOVE THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE WIRING ON THE BOTTOM.
B. REMOVE THE AIR PUMP RELAY AND THE A/P-FAN FUSE (#7).
C. REMOVE TERMINAL E1 (.8MM ORANGE) FROM THE RELAY LOCATION. CUT THE OLD TERMINAL OFF, AND TAPE THE WIRE. THIS WIRE WILL NOT BE USED.
D. REMOVE TERMINAL L7 (.8MM ORANGE) FROM THE FUSE LOCATION. CUT OFF AND DISCARD THE TERMINAL. CRIMP AND SOLDER A NEW TERMINAL, P/N 12020321, TO A 9 INCH (225MM) LENGTH OF NEW 1.0MM ORANGE WIRE AND THE EXISTING ORANGE WIRE FROM L7.
E. INSTALL THE NEW TERMINAL INTO CAVITY L7.
F. CRIMP AND SOLDER A NEW TERMINAL, P/N 12015869, TO THE OTHER END OF THE NEW WIRE.
G. INSTALL THIS NEW TERMINAL INTO CAVITY E1.
3. A. REINSTALL THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER.
B. INSTALL A 25 AMP FUSE IN THE AIR PUMP (#7) LOCATION. REINSTALL THE AIR PUMP RELAY.
C. CLEAN THE PRESENT LABEL ON THE INSIDE COVER OF THE UNDERHOOD ELECTRICAL CENTER, THEN APPLY A NEW LABEL, P/N 12191559.
D. RECONNECT THE NEGATIVE BATTERY CABLE. VERIFY THAT THE AIR PUMP OPERATES.
PARTS INFORMATION:
PARTS ARE EXPECTED TO BE AVAILABLE ON MARCH 4, 1996.
WARRANTY INFORMATION:
FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:
LABOR OPERATION NUMBER: N6276 USE PUBLISHED LABOR OPERATION TIME.
FIGURES: 00 ATTACHMENTS: 00
I also noticed my friends light came on around 10000 miles. I am wondering, if this is a plan by Honda to make us bring our cars to them to be checked out. More money for them. I believe so, since it only took them 15 min to reset the light...
Does anyone know how to reset the light......
I also noticed my friends light came on around 10000 miles. I am wondering, if this is a plan by Honda to make us bring our cars to them to be checked out. More money for them. I believe so, since it only took them 15 min to reset the light...
Does anyone know how to reset the light 2000 Odyssey
can you estimate the problem according to it. I did not now how to figure what code number is it?
thanks
Nadav
63 MAP sensor voltage high
63 EGR flow check (3.8L)
63 Right side oxygen sensor circuit open (5.7L)
No matter which engine you have,check all of the vaccum hoses to be sure that they are in good shape and hooked up.But,are you sure that is the sequence? When the light starts to flash,the first set is tens,then the pause,then the next set is ones.Flash,flash,pause,flash,flash,flash=code 23,follow?Recheck the numbers.
Any ideas?
Ok,I've calmed down now.Let me kind of summarize how this works(this is getting to be more work then I expected(BIG GRIN))The ECM moniters the systems,whether it be the O2,TPS,or emmissions.The sensors send signals in ohms or voltage to the ECM,it looks at those values and sees if they are with in the range that is specified.If a sensor is out of the range,the light sets.If the sensor comes back into that range,then the light goes back off.Now that we have that out of the way,now comes the mechanic.First,he checks the trouble codes.What's this?The O2 sensor code?Well,lets go and see what the Flowchart or diagnostic tree for this code tells us to do.
Here is a list of codes that are O2 related.
P0130 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0131 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0132 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0133 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0134 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0135 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0136 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0137 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0138 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0139 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0140 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0141 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0142 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 3)
P0143 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 3)
P0144 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 3)
P0145 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 3)
P0146 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 3)
P0147 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 3)
P0150 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0151 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0152 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0153 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0154 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0155 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0156 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
P0157 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
P0158 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
P0159 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
P0160 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
P0161 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
P0162 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 3)
P0163 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 3)
P0164 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 3)
P0165 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 2 Sensor 3)
P0166 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 3)
P0167 O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 3)
Now,for each of those codes,is a diagnostic tree or flowchart for testing the circuits to determine what exactly is the cause.Are you paying for this or is it warrantied?If you are footing the bill,go find a good reputable independant shop who can do the diagnostics,cause the dealer you are going to has no clue what they are doing.I hope this gives you and understanding of how it works.
#!@*. You just confirmed that. I found a good mechanic yesterday, but he doesn't have a scanner. He referred me to someone who did, though. He charges $35 to diagnose the problem, where the dealer charges $65. I really appreciate all your help and time. It's nice to be able to go to a mechanic and at least ask intelligent questions. Also, that is a GM dealer and I am paying for this work. I'll keep you updated.
what should be done to fix the problem?
That is the same O2 sensor that they changed. Now, if you could describe the placement of the O2 sensors, i.e. bank 1 sensor 1, to see if this mechanic is right. The mechanic put it on his lift and showed me the sensors. He said that there is an O2 sensor, bank 1 sensor 1 on the drivers side manifold. Bank 1 sensor 2 was before the first convertor. Bank 2 sensor 1 was before the second convertor and bank 2 sensor 2 was after the second converter. He was honest and said he had never had to replace O2 sensors on a vehicle that had four O2 sensors. The sensor the dealer changed, according to his logic would have been bank 1 sensor 2. The two sensors in the front had different connections than the ones on the back. Who's right? If they changed out a perfectly good sensor, I really want to know. Thanks.
Which,if I looked at the diagrams right,should be the very rear O2 sensor.E-mail me and I will send you a flowchart and diagrams for the PO161 trouble code.See if your mechanic has e-mail and I can send him some info.The flowchart and diagrams are about 4 pages,so I will not post them(I hear a sigh of relief from some).I would e-mail them right away,but you don't list an e-mail.you can view my e-mail by clicking on my name.
I am new to the site but am nonetheless a very frustrated 2000 GLS Jetta owner. My O2 sensor failed at 300 miles and was "repaired" At 3,700 miles, the light has gone on again. The dealer is telling me to pick up the car, that after having it for a week, there is nothing wrong. He said that there was a "soft-failure" that the computers didn't indicate. Are you familiar with this term? Is there any other issue that I, as a person who is very inexperienced with cars, can do to check out the problem? Thanks, Jane
I haven't heard of a (SoftFailure) ,although I have heard of the ECM(Electronic Control Module) storing a code even after the repair was made. What kind of gas are you using in that new 2000 Jetta? Maybe they are experiencing a problem with there O2 sensors and just haven't notifyed customers. Sometimes that's why it's best to wait awhile before buying that just off the assembly line product some bugs still need to be worked out...
Kristina/host
Opatience is right, make sure whenever you have to go in again for another check engine light the problem is noted on the RO##. So you can show it's been an ongoing problem for warranty purposes...
Hope It Get's Resolved,
Kristina/co host Our Turn
You may see the MIL during a demand situation, but with no DTC stored if the thresholds are not met.
This may be old news (I'm new here and didn't try to read all 201 posts), but a good site is www.obdii.com.
best of luck
My husband does not see any oil leaking. The dip stick maintains high level. Any advise?