If the infomercial is to be believed .. The prolong stuff seems to be very easy to apply . It seems to have a great, shiny finish .. They say that it is very durable ...(i thought they said it lasts for several months ). And the promised protection seems to be too tempting. I mean ..the sandblaster and other tests . refer to my earlier post#151
Not that I would blast my 98concordeLxi with sand but isn't the protection ( if it actually works) great ..?
And I think ...it costs somewhere about $30 (in target stores) and store-available ..so it seems to be significantly cheaper and goes a long way and more shine and protection than Z.. don't you think ..?
again .. I haven't used this product ...only happened to see an infomercial ...
I just spent some money on piling up my meguiar collection and am quite satisfied with it but maybe I will try the prolong stuff after I have used the last drop of my meguiar's.
meanwhile ..I was interested to know if someone has used the prolong sealant and would like to share their experiences here ....
ruski - In this topic we are interested in waxes that are very quick and easy to use in one application. My head spins when I read the many comments in the Z**** topic about how many applications it takes for Z**** and how careful you have to be to not let it cure too long or too short, etc.
Also, I have never seen anything other than the comments in the Z**** topic that say Z**** really compares favorably to store bought waxes. Those are just the opinions of people that have paid the big bucks and are willing to spend all the time Z**** takes to make a car look good.
To my knowledge there is no impartial controlled test that includes Z****. In the last Consumer Reports test, many of the miracle waxes did very poorly compared to basic Meguiars Cleaner Wax and Nu Finish. Seems like a $5.00 wax can outperform many of the $20-40 waxes.
We will probably find out that Prolong is nothing more than good marketing and average wax.
That's because there are no studies that prove anything about Z. Every time I publicly state this, old Sal Z or his minions (or online pseudonyms) sends me a jpeg of an article out of that reputable, peer-reviewed scientific publication, "Corvette Magazine".
Z is good stuff, but I personally find the whole Z situation rather creepy and even though I really like it, will no longer use it. I mean, how often do you get a long distance call from a car wax salesman for not blindly supporting everything said about their product and allowing that there might be room for differing opinions. That and the fact the the Z_ealots have become almost a cult.
All new cars, will look fine if you use reasonable good sense about keeping them clean and apply a protective layer of wax, Z, or whatever at regular intervals. This is not rocket science. Unless you are showing your car, use whatever works for you and makes you happy with the appearance.
Hi: Consumer Reports usually doesn't test car waxes available only by mail order. The easy way to approach what works best is to ask what people who win the Concours competitions use for their cars. There, money doesn't matter - only the shine counts. This doesn't mean you have to use it but at least you have a basis of comparison. I know many use the expensive Zymol products ($100.00+) but I dislike the idea of timing a wax, i.e., removing it after it has set up but before it has dried. This is also why I'm not crazy about P21S wax. I compared the $5.00 waxes with the $20.00 waxes on my cars. I then have friends and family decide which side looks best. As I have written elsewhere, I like Griot's Garage Best of Show Liquid and One Grand Blitz paste wax. Each is about $20.00 but either adds more clarity, color, and depth than any $5.00 wax I have tried on my cars. I think you should use whatever you like. The purpose of this forum is to expose you to products that you might not otherwise have known about. By the way, 3M Imperial Hand Glaze followed by Blitz on my cars will equal or exceed the shine vs. the Zaino that I used.
It's good to find someone else who likes One Grand Blitz wax. It's my current favorite wax as well, and I also use the 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. My previous favorite was P21S which has a great shine, but you definitely don't want to leave it on too long. Blitz is comparable, and much easier to remove. The best thing about P21S and Zymol is they don't dry white. When I didn't feel like using P21S, I'd use Meguiar's #7 followed by #26 (which also doesn't dry white). I've tried most of the better waxes (Pinnacle, Zymol (Carbon, Creme, and Japon), P21S, Meguiar's (Cleaner/Wax, Medallion, Gold Class liquid, #26 liquid), and others. All have their good and bad points, but the One Grand Blitz seems to be the best compromise. I just purchased Z----, and was impressed with how it looked on my '91 Honda, but waiting for it to dry was a pain. I'll probably try it on my Explorer over Memorial Day weekend.
Pictures of the vehicles when I was still using P21S can be seen at http://www.concentric.net/~qwalls/vehicles.html Note: The Avalon didn't have a fresh coat of wax when that picture was taken, but now has a fresh coat of Blitz.
Reason I ask is that an insider at the National Auto Parts Association says waxing hurts the finish. My source used to work at Genuine Parts Company, the largest individual member of NAPA. She said that the sales representatives for Martin Senior (the car paint division of Sherwin Williams) all agreed: Nothing preserves a clearcoat finish better than regular, gentle washing and NO wax or polish, which always DAMAGES the finish over the long term. This is what they said, anyway. I just bought a brand new car and I want to make it look good for at least six years. The owner's manual does say to wax, but provides no details. I have read all the posts in this topic and even most of the Church of Z topic, but haven't seen much discussion of the "no wax" approach. What do you think?
As a general rule the less you touch this very thin finish the better.
Zaino is better in theory, for you have to do much less invasive coating. You in effect, coat the coating. Remember the finish is app the thickness of a grocery bag; so any rubbing of the thin finish runs the risk of rubbing or scuffing it away. The clear coat is very delicate to begin with. (If you ever had a paint chip from a stone you know what I mean.)The environmental deterioration works its magic in short order, unless you happen to have a pristine situation for storage for a daily driver.
Wow. Should you or should you not wax? I just got my new car delivered to me about two weeks ago (I ordered it). I asked at the dealership how long I should wait until I waxed, and they said 1 month. I then sent an e-mail to GM and asked them and the replied 6 months! Does anybody know how long is the right time? Also I had used a product before from Simonz called ONE STEP. It was a wipe on, wipe off product and worked very well and gave a great shine and took no time at all to apply. Does anybody know what it was exactly and if it is still available, if so where. Are there any other products out there that are similar. I liked it because you were not "buffing" and not scratching the paint while applying. It probably didn't last long on the car , but if it is this easy to apply, I'll trade doing it a few times a year opposed to the length of time it takes with most waxes!
Per your #148 post, I am interested to know if you have successfully removed some strongly bonded contaminants, such as hard water stains (embedded calcium bonds), with Gold Class Prep. I have posted my problem at the board Wax and Polishes, and they recommend claying to remove them.
I'd like to learn if Gold Class Prep is better than clay in this aspect. Care to further share your Prep experience?
You claim that Z is less invasive. Obviously true from the standpoint of physical pressure required to apply the product. But have you even considered what may be involved in allowing a foreign substance to bond with your paint to allow a thin coating to remain? Consider that Z requires preliminary application of a bonding agent (Z1) which is, in fact, a catalyst that enhances the chemical reaction between the Z2 and your paint. What exactly is the effect of this on your paint? Can not the chemical bonding and subsequent removal (why else would you ever need to reapply it) cause a loss of just as much of the precious thin clearcoat? Of Course the Zeal*ts will have you believe that this is harmless. Is it? Not that I'm trying to stir up trouble or anything... Dave
#163 You are absolutely right. Removal can cause a loss of this thin clearcoat. Whether or not it meets the 5/10/15 year test, for me anyway, remains to be seen; or even if it was even worth the time effort energy and money to switch to Zaino/polymer type polish.
(Given non scientific inspections and same/similar protection) All I really know is that I polish the vehicle a whole lot less. I wash the vehicle a whole lot less. And because I am not rubbing in and rubbing off as hard with Zaino as with say Meguairs systems, in theory anyway, I am being less physically and hopefully less chemically abrasive. Chemically it remains to be seen for the 5/10/15 yr time frame.
Short term I like the result and with a whole lot less effort. To give a perspective; Meguairs needed #7 and #26 app 1.5 to 2 months or 6-8 applications(x2=12-16) a yr. Zaino on the other hand, z-1,z-2 (x2) for a grand total of 2 (x2) or 4 a yr. I like 3 to 4x less effort for the same protection.
#164 The other thing is that if you dont plan on keeping the car much past the 3-5 yr mark, part of the reason you do a lease is that after that time, it is not your worry anymore. I can attest to 1.5 to 2 mo waxing on a 13 yr old daily driver.(non Zaino)
Hi: #159 - Not wax? If you want to see what happens to a car that isn't waxed then go to the junk yard. You will see row after row of oxidized paint. Remember that waxes and sealants are not just to make the car shine. They exist as a sacrificial layer to protect the car from UV, get worn off, etc. so your paint isn't damaged.
#161 - Wax new car when? Easiest wax to use? It should be OK to wax a new car upon delivery since its paint has been baked on and off-gassing from the paint should be at a mininum. Still, if GM says wait 6 months then I would. As for waxes, the easiest paste I have applied is Blitz. The easiest liquid was Super Glaze from the Wax Shop. It doesn't shine as well as the Griot's Garage Best of Show but it is easier. The Super Glaze should be used every 4-6 weeks since it contains about 8% carnauba. If you like it buy it cheaper by the gallon at waxdepot.com. Good luck.
Hi: I think the detailing sprays used between car washes to keep the shine up on the paint are as important as the wax itself. I have used Eagle One, Finish Fast, 3M, etc. In the top tier for my cars are Griot's Garage Speed Shine, One Grand's Show Off, and Zaino Z-6. Since all leave an excellent shine then price comes in. The Griot's costs $9.95 for 35 ounces. The other two are about $10 per 16 ounces. For someone who uses these a lot for dusting, etc., buying in bulk is best. Zaino Z-6 costs $80/gallon (since Sal doesn't retail a gallon you must buy 8 bottles), Griot's Speed Shine is $29.95/gallon, and One Grand Show Off is only $20.48/gallon at carcareonline. I find that Zaino and One Grand both smell good (muted cherry vs. tropical) and leave a finish that is slick to the touch. Because it's less expensive in bulk, I prefer One Grand. Any other thoughts?
Congratulations on your successful test! I haven't tried claying my car yet, but yesterday I took advice from Meguiar's expert line, trying their Clear Coat Body Scrub to remove the severe hard water stains. Jim said it's the strongest surface cleaner available for non-professional users. And guess what? It did work out the embedded stains for me!
But I really got back pain after working on it, although I thought it was worthy. Would applying clay easier with less effort?
#169 In a practical manner of speaking yes. In the sense that you have to go over the same areas...no. I am into rubbing the surface as gently as possible with maximum result; so I would opt for clay even though the body scrub does indeed work.
#167 To me, it sounds like you have the drill down, enjoy a shiny vehicle and have an eye to good cost control. The detailer is in theory, the stop gap measure in lieu of doing a full polish/wax, or delaying a full car wash. It is good to coat the coating. However, if you find yourself coating the coating, coating the coating I would give pause at some point.
Used clay thanks to these posts and found it to be amazing. Old truck finish was smooth as a baby's butt; used it on a newer truck, even more amazing. Absolutely glass smooth. When I told my buddy about it he told me to pound sand, then asked to borrow mine. No way at $20 a pop. So he got his own, clayed, and had to admit it was the best thing he ever used, (and this guy is fastidious about his car.) Just run it over the finish that has been lubricated. Do not rub hard. I think you'll be pleased.
#170 Thanks for sharing your experience.. I wonder how a clay works to remove such stubborn stains. But now I know how that body scrub works. It first softens the embedded contaminants. Then through rubbing, the contaminants and the compound mixes together, and eventually they are taken away by wiping with a dry clean cloth. Should clay wipe the contaminants out in a different manner?
#173 Yes, the clays action is slightly different in that a lot more depends on sheering action; and so the lubricant is used so the clay doesn't bind .
Hi: mpm99 #175: These are different things. GLAZES and POLISHES are used to clean (of water spots, oxidation, etc.) and shine the paint as good as it can be prior to waxing. They do NOT protect the finish. Classically, GLAZES contain physical agents (mild abrasives) to shine the finish; POLISHES contain chemical agents to shine the finish. Both will contain oils, etc. to "feed" the paint which makes the color deeper and richer. An example would be 3M Imperial Hand Glaze.If you follow directions polishes and glazes should be equal. Since they will improve the finish but will not protect it, another product must be applied after them. Protection is the function of a WAX or a POLYMER SEALANT. They protect the shine and finish that you just put on the car. Some products (like Zaino) call themselves a polish when they are really a sealant so the terminology can be misused. Some are combinations, i.e. cleaner waxes, that are both glaze/polish and wax in one product. DETAILERS are products used to reinvigorate the shine and finish between car washes and waxes. Some contain waxes but the amount is usually minimal. Their function is not to protect but to clean and shine. Silicones are not desirable on paint because they can make any paint repairs difficult, causing the paint to "FISH-EYE" because the paint won't adhere properly. Silicones on tires can dissolve the waxes in the tire that reduce ozone damage. Decide what you want to do - polish, protect, or detail - and pick the product that fits. Good luck.
Anyone have any experience with Mothers? I have just tried the glaze and liquid carnuba wax. They worked very nicely. Easy on and easy off with a really nice smooth, swirl free shine. Took me an hour and half to do my car. Picked up both for under $10.
I have never used Mother's waxes. They did not score well in the 1994 Consumer Reports test.
Note in message 149 that two weeks ago I waxed a strip on my hood in Nu Finish, a strip in Meguiars Cleaner Wax, one in Turtle Wax Emerald Paste and one in the Wet Wax that comes with Clay Magic. Well, I just did my first wash and the Nu Finish beaded nicely, the Meguiars beaded a little less and both the Turtle Wax Emerald and Wet Wax did not bead at all.
I was getting a little sick of ALWAYS having my waxing questions answered with a hundred dollar Z-word.
I have used Meguiars products succesfully for the past few years on my cars. I lease, so what I am looking for in a wax is a smooth surface and good shine. I use Meguiars regular(?) paste wax in a can about once a month and it gives me a great shine. When I find that the surface is starting to be "less smooth" or show oxidation, I will use the liquid Meguiars Cleaner/Wax, followed with a coat of the paste. This does a great job of reviving the smooth finish.
I have had a new (black) 99 Passat for about a week and have washed once(using ZipWax brand car soap liquid) followed with the Meguiars Quick Detail Spray after chamois drying. This Detail Spray worked great and removed a few light water spots and restord the "gleam" to the factory(or dealer)applied wax. It is probably all I will use till fall when I give the car a couple of coats of the Meguiars Pastes Wax.
BTW, I have a friend who bought a silver Saab 900 new in 1986. He has NEVER waxed it! This car is in perfect shape, the paint is reasonably smooth and shiny with NO rust except for the bottoms of the doors(damn N.E. winters!) I asked him why he had never waxed and he said that he called Saab when he first bought the car and was told not to wax the clearcoat. Whatever you or I may think, this approach REALLY has worked for him.
I personally like the fresh shine, but never waxing a modern car, especially if you don't plan on keeping it forever, may not be THAT bad of a thing.
I tried using Meguiars wax, and although it leaves an excellent shine, the shine doesn't last---it seems to collect dirt and dust rather than repel it.
Has anyone else experienced this problem?
I plan to try to see what the Cult of the Z is about, to see if it is really worth the $$.
I'm attracted to them -- either I'm not going to wax my brand new Volkswagen at all, or I'm going to use The Product Whose Name Must Not Be Mentioned once a month. That Saab that wasn't waxed in 13 years (post #180)? Wow! If there's anybody who has used any wax for 13 years and gotten better results than that Saab owner, I hope you will post.
I usually park my car under trees at work and get tree saps all over the hood and windshield. These saps are tiny and clear but feel rough when you run your hand over the hood. It seems like if I wash my car really carefully, I can get rid of most of it. But I'm afraid that if it can be permanent if I leave it on too long. I tried waxing the car with one of those wipe-on wipe-off liquid wax (I think it's Meguiars)to get the shine and hopefully can remove those saps easier.(this stuff works pretty good, the finish feels very smooth) Any idea of what can be done to get rid of those saps with ease?? Do I need to "clay" it? How do you "clay" anyways? Will just one-coat waxing help at all?? Thanks
Hi: Tree sap is a surface contaminant. If it is left on the paint it will do permanent damage. You can either use a cleaner/glaze/polish or clay. I would use clay as it is fast and will not require that the surface be re-waxed. I use the clay from Griot's Garage with either their Speed Shine detailer or with Show Off detailer from One Grand Products. Others have posted their success with Erazure products but I have not used them. Wash your car then follow the directions for the clay and detailing spray. Avoid trees at all costs. By the way you can use clay on your windshields too. Good luck.
Hi: Zaino is a polymer sealant that chemically bonds to the finish. This is why you must wait a while before wiping it or other sealants off. The longer they sit the more they "cure", up to 24 hours. Waxes don't cure in this sense. You can think of sealants like Zaino, Finish First, Klasse, etc. as additional finish coats on the clearcoat. Adding more coats allows you to build on the previously applied layers. This building-up of layers increases durability and is one of their benefits. Applying a second coat of wax will usually dissolve the first coat. This reduces wax buidup. Griot's Garage's Best of Show and One Grand's Blitz wax claim you can build layers with them (immediately with the former and after 5-7 days with the latter). Their increased durability is one of the benefits of them. The biggest factors as to what the clay will do are the type of clay (they come in different levels of abrasiveness - I like the one from Griot's Garage), the slickness and amount of the agent used to lubricate the paint (slicker and more of it are better - I use a detailing spray), and how much pressure is used to rub the clay back and forth (less is better). Of course you can use 3M's Adhesive and Tar remover (which removes waxes but not sealant) or any of the paint cleaners (they are often more work and also need wax, but not sealant, applied after them.) Hope this helps.
I have a 3 week old Jeep Grand Cherokee that has been washed once. I notice almost microscopic bits of something on the paint. I have no idea what they are, they seem too small to be tree sap. It's almost like some metallic dust that I need to scrape away individually. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Will clay get rid of these bits? Or can I wax/polish using Zaino or some other product over these bits?
Hi: #187 - bits in the paint These may represent rail dust (dust from the train brakes grabbing the rails can settle on the car during its transportation on the train) or general surface contamination. Good pro detailers do every thing twice - wash ing, polishing, waxing - in getting a car ready for Concours competition. I would suggest you wash your car twice with a good car wash then clay the finish as described above and elsewhere. If you do not remove the surface contamination before waxing or applying a polymer sealant you will entomb this material into your finish. This could in turn oxidize or rust and thus destroy your finish. Since a 3 week old Jeep costs a lot, spend the time to protect your expensive purchase. I usually do not detail a whole car at once since the outlay of time would be too exhausting. People who spend 6 hours detailing their interior and exterior usually vow never to repeat the process. I find that breaking a big job into multiple little ones helps to make them manageable. I will wash my car then treat (polish/glaze then wax) the paint on the horizontal surfaces (hood, trunk, and roof) and detail the front of the interior this week. Next week when I wash the car, I treat the vertical surfaces (sides of the car and the trim) and detail the back of the interior and the trunk. This keeps me from being overwhelmed and allows me to enjoy the tasks. Then when I wash the car each week I spend a little time to maintain what I have achieved. Do this and your car will always look great. Mine do.
#188 thanks for your post -- But I don't wash my cars, the water at my house is hard and leaves white spots, and I don't think I do good car washes. So for the last several years I take my cars to the local car wash which "hand washes" my cars (it's a real hand wash, no automatic brush machine) and rinses off with distilled water, and I plan to let them do the Jeep once every two weeks. So I think I'll clay after the "hand wash," (which I've never done but with my first "good" car I think I'll take the plunge). As for the metallic bits, I didn't notice them when I first got the Jeep because I ran my fingers over the paint and it felt smooth. Now three weeks later running my fingers over the paint I feel these little micro bumps. I don't think it's rail dust otherwise I would have felt it from the start. Maybe it's brake dust from the other cars on the freeway? (I live in L.A.) Plus I look at my windshield and these micro-bits are also on the windshield. So I'll take it in for a carwash this weekend and see if the bits come off, if not I'll see if clay takes them off, and then I'll give it the first polish/wax job. I ordered the Zaino products (z1,z2 z6) so I'll see if they work as advertised. One last question is what do I use to lubricate the clay with? Any claying techniques I ought to know?
Most clay products come with their own lubricating sprays. If not, use some car washing liquid. The idea is to allow the clay to sort of flow over your finish while picking up all sorts of dirt. Don't use a harsh washing liquid as this may remove wax or polish too.
I too live in L.A. and the grit in the air is unbelievable, even in so-called low pollution areas. Clay does a remarkable job. Remember to put a quality wax, glaze or sealant as soon as you are done. Just one day in the L.A. air and you'll have to wash again.
#179: You must be kidding! I just logged on their site and tried to get a quote of Acura 3.2TL. For both trims (with or w/o nav) they sell exactly as MSRP! Besides, I also tried other cars and none of them are priced as invoice. Well, maybe this board is not a good place to talk about such things..
Yeah - I posted that carsdirect info on this board by mistake. At that time, they were going through an update of their site (which lasted a few days), and I sware the TL was listed at invoice.
I just used the Meguires 3 step process on my wifes 91' Mercury and it worked excellent! I have used a one step cleaner/sealant (Race Glaze) on this car since it was new and the paint has slowly faded (it sits outside 24/7). The first step (cleaner) removed 80% of the oxidation and swirl marks, the second step is the polish which removed even more oxidation and brought out a darker color, and the last step was the carnuba wax. The major downfall with this is how long it takes, 5 -6 hours. It was worth the time due to the age of the vehicle and condition of the paint. Not sure if all 3 steps would be necessary on a newer car. Race Glaze is also a pretty good one step cleaner/sealant. Their claim to fame is that Race Glaze is "breathable" for the paint. It cost about $10 at auto parts stores. Has anyone else used the Meguires 3 step process on a newer car? I'm thinking about trying it on a car that is 3 years old but not sure if would be worth the time for all three steps.
Can you give me the EXACT name of the three (3) Miguire's products you used? And are they ALL safe for clear coats? I hope my Miguire's Gold Class wax will be ok for the last step.
The name of the products are Meguiar's Deep Crystal System - Step 1 Cleaner, Step 2 Polish, and Step 3 Carnauba Wax. Yes, they are all clear coat safe. Check out http://www.meguiars.com/ for more info on Meguiar's products. They will even give you a detailed "prescription" on how to maintain your vehicle considering where you live, age of the vehicle, environmental factors, etc.
How's your comparison (between Z and Duragloss) going? Could you give us an update about the longevity of each? Sorry I couldn't reach you through your email, so I could only ask here. You can reply by email to me if you want. Thanks.
Jokes aside, do you have a problem with Zaino? Why does it bother you so much? What qualifies someone like me as a joker? I just tried Zaino and liked it. Many other people liked it too. It is not the most expensive stuff, some people pay thousands for something like Zymol. It is not difficult to apply, and it gives great results.
kewldude You must be some immature jerk who makes a statement without backing it up with facts!! Just to let you know, this "joker" researched this product thoroughly before buying just because I am very skeptical. After trying countless department store brands and Z I can honestly tell you that this is the best product that I have ever used. Zaino goes on and comes off easy and is very durable. The last application of Z on my car ('94 Honda Accord) was Dec. and I still get compliments on how shiny it is. I am sure there will be skeptics out there who love using the "old turtle wax" but that does not necessarily make them a "joker" nor I for my preference!
Comments
If the infomercial is to be believed ..
The prolong stuff seems to be very easy to apply .
It seems to have a great, shiny finish ..
They say that it is very durable ...(i thought they said it lasts for several months ).
And the promised protection seems to be too tempting. I mean ..the sandblaster and other tests . refer to my earlier post#151
Not that I would blast my 98concordeLxi with sand but isn't the protection ( if it actually works) great ..?
And I think ...it costs somewhere about $30 (in target stores) and store-available ..so it seems to be significantly cheaper and goes a long way and more shine and protection than Z.. don't you think ..?
again .. I haven't used this product ...only happened to see an infomercial ...
I just spent some money on piling up my meguiar collection and am quite satisfied with it but maybe I will try the prolong stuff after I have used the last drop of my meguiar's.
meanwhile ..I was interested to know if someone has used the prolong sealant and would like to share their experiences here ....
Also, I have never seen anything other than the comments in the Z**** topic that say Z**** really compares favorably to store bought waxes. Those are just the opinions of people that have paid the big bucks and are willing to spend all the time Z**** takes to make a car look good.
To my knowledge there is no impartial controlled test that includes Z****. In the last Consumer Reports test, many of the miracle waxes did very poorly compared to basic Meguiars Cleaner Wax and Nu Finish. Seems like a $5.00 wax can outperform many of the $20-40 waxes.
We will probably find out that Prolong is nothing more than good marketing and average wax.
Z is good stuff, but I personally find the whole Z situation rather creepy and even though I really like it, will no longer use it. I mean, how often do you get a long distance call from a car wax salesman for not blindly supporting everything said about their product and allowing that there might be room for differing opinions. That and the fact the the Z_ealots have become almost a cult.
All new cars, will look fine if you use reasonable good sense about keeping them clean and apply a protective layer of wax, Z, or whatever at regular intervals. This is not rocket science. Unless you are showing your car, use whatever works for you and makes you happy with the appearance.
Consumer Reports usually doesn't test car waxes available only by mail order. The easy way to approach what works best is to ask what people who win the Concours competitions use for their cars. There, money doesn't matter - only the shine counts. This doesn't mean you have to use it but at least you have a basis of comparison. I know many use the expensive Zymol products ($100.00+) but I dislike the idea of timing a wax, i.e., removing it after it has set up but before it has dried. This is also why I'm not crazy about P21S wax.
I compared the $5.00 waxes with the $20.00 waxes on my cars. I then have friends and family decide which side looks best. As I have written elsewhere, I like Griot's Garage Best of Show Liquid and One Grand Blitz paste wax. Each is about $20.00 but either adds more clarity, color, and depth than any $5.00 wax I have tried on my cars. I think you should use whatever you like. The purpose of this forum is to expose you to products that you might not otherwise have known about.
By the way, 3M Imperial Hand Glaze followed by Blitz on my cars will equal or exceed the shine vs. the Zaino that I used.
Pictures of the vehicles when I was still using P21S can be seen at http://www.concentric.net/~qwalls/vehicles.html
Note: The Avalon didn't have a fresh coat of wax when that picture was taken, but now has a fresh coat of Blitz.
Technically that is true...BUT...
As a general rule the less you touch this very thin finish the better.
Zaino is better in theory, for you have to do much less invasive coating. You in effect, coat the coating. Remember the finish is app the thickness of a grocery bag; so any rubbing of the thin finish runs the risk of rubbing or scuffing it away. The clear coat is very delicate to begin with. (If you ever had a paint chip from a stone you know what I mean.)The environmental deterioration works its magic in short order, unless you happen to have a pristine situation for storage for a daily driver.
Also I had used a product before from Simonz called ONE STEP. It was a wipe on, wipe off product and worked very well and gave a great shine and took no time at all to apply. Does anybody know what it was exactly and if it is still available, if so where. Are there any other products out there that are similar. I liked it because you were not "buffing" and not scratching the paint while applying. It probably didn't last long on the car , but if it is this easy to apply, I'll trade doing it a few times a year opposed to the length of time it takes with most waxes!
Per your #148 post, I am interested to know if you have successfully removed some strongly bonded contaminants, such as hard water stains (embedded calcium bonds), with Gold Class Prep. I have posted my problem at the board Wax and Polishes, and they recommend claying to remove them.
I'd like to learn if Gold Class Prep is better than clay in this aspect. Care to further share your Prep experience?
Dave
You are absolutely right. Removal can cause a loss of this thin clearcoat. Whether or not it meets the 5/10/15 year test, for me anyway, remains to be seen; or even if it was even worth the time effort energy and money to switch to Zaino/polymer type polish.
(Given non scientific inspections and same/similar protection) All I really know is that I polish the vehicle a whole lot less. I wash the vehicle a whole lot less. And because I am not rubbing in and rubbing off as hard with Zaino as with say Meguairs systems, in theory anyway, I am being less physically and hopefully less chemically abrasive. Chemically it remains to be seen for the 5/10/15 yr time frame.
Short term I like the result and with a whole lot less effort. To give a perspective; Meguairs needed #7 and #26 app 1.5 to 2 months or 6-8 applications(x2=12-16) a yr. Zaino on the other hand, z-1,z-2 (x2) for a grand total of 2 (x2) or 4 a yr. I like 3 to 4x less effort for the same protection.
The other thing is that if you dont plan on keeping the car much past the 3-5 yr mark, part of the reason you do a lease is that after that time, it is not your worry anymore. I can attest to 1.5 to 2 mo waxing on a 13 yr old daily driver.(non Zaino)
#159 - Not wax?
If you want to see what happens to a car that isn't waxed then go to the junk yard. You will see row after row of oxidized paint. Remember that waxes and sealants are not just to make the car shine. They exist as a sacrificial layer to protect the car from UV, get worn off, etc. so your paint isn't damaged.
#161 - Wax new car when? Easiest wax to use?
It should be OK to wax a new car upon delivery since its paint has been baked on and off-gassing from the paint should be at a mininum. Still, if GM says wait 6 months then I would.
As for waxes, the easiest paste I have applied is Blitz. The easiest liquid was Super Glaze from the Wax Shop. It doesn't shine as well as the Griot's Garage Best of Show but it is easier. The Super Glaze should be used every 4-6 weeks since it contains about 8% carnauba. If you like it buy it cheaper by the gallon at waxdepot.com.
Good luck.
I think the detailing sprays used between car washes to keep the shine up on the paint are as important as the wax itself. I have used Eagle One, Finish Fast, 3M, etc.
In the top tier for my cars are Griot's Garage Speed Shine, One Grand's Show Off, and Zaino Z-6. Since all leave an excellent shine then price comes in. The Griot's costs $9.95 for 35 ounces. The other two are about $10 per 16 ounces. For someone who uses these a lot for dusting, etc., buying in bulk is best.
Zaino Z-6 costs $80/gallon (since Sal doesn't retail a gallon you must buy 8 bottles), Griot's Speed Shine is $29.95/gallon, and One Grand Show Off is only $20.48/gallon at carcareonline. I find that Zaino and One Grand both smell good (muted cherry vs. tropical) and leave a finish that is slick to the touch. Because it's less expensive in bulk, I prefer One Grand.
Any other thoughts?
So, I bought some Clay Magic and tried it on our red Miata yesterday. This stuff works!!
I used Meguairs afterwards. I'm a believer!
But I really got back pain after working on it, although I thought it was worthy. Would applying clay easier with less effort?
In a practical manner of speaking yes. In the sense that you have to go over the same areas...no.
I am into rubbing the surface as gently as possible with maximum result; so I would opt for clay even though the body scrub does indeed work.
To me, it sounds like you have the drill down, enjoy a shiny vehicle and have an eye to good cost control.
The detailer is in theory, the stop gap measure in lieu of doing a full polish/wax, or delaying a full car wash.
It is good to coat the coating. However, if you find yourself coating the coating, coating the coating I would give pause at some point.
Absolutely glass smooth. When I told my buddy about it he told me to pound sand, then asked to borrow mine. No way at $20 a pop. So he got his own, clayed, and had to admit it was the best thing he ever used, (and this guy is fastidious about his car.) Just run it over the finish that has been lubricated. Do not rub hard. I think you'll be pleased.
Thanks for sharing your experience.. I wonder how a clay works to remove such stubborn stains. But now I know how that body scrub works. It first softens the embedded contaminants. Then through rubbing, the contaminants and the compound mixes together, and eventually they are taken away by wiping with a dry clean cloth. Should clay wipe the contaminants out in a different manner?
Yes, the clays action is slightly different in that a lot more depends on sheering action; and so the lubricant is used so the clay doesn't bind .
mpm99 #175:
These are different things.
GLAZES and POLISHES are used to clean (of water spots, oxidation, etc.) and shine the paint as good as it can be prior to waxing. They do NOT protect the finish. Classically, GLAZES contain physical agents (mild abrasives) to shine the finish; POLISHES contain chemical agents to shine the finish. Both will contain oils, etc. to "feed" the paint which makes the color deeper and richer. An example would be 3M Imperial Hand Glaze.If you follow directions polishes and glazes should be equal. Since they will improve the finish but will not protect it, another product must be applied after them.
Protection is the function of a WAX or a POLYMER SEALANT. They protect the shine and finish that you just put on the car. Some products (like Zaino) call themselves a polish when they are really a sealant so the terminology can be misused. Some are combinations, i.e. cleaner waxes, that are both glaze/polish and wax in one product.
DETAILERS are products used to reinvigorate the shine and finish between car washes and waxes. Some contain waxes but the amount is usually minimal. Their function is not to protect but to clean and shine.
Silicones are not desirable on paint because they can make any paint repairs difficult, causing the paint to "FISH-EYE" because the paint won't adhere properly. Silicones on tires can dissolve the waxes in the tire that reduce ozone damage.
Decide what you want to do - polish, protect, or detail - and pick the product that fits.
Good luck.
Note in message 149 that two weeks ago I waxed a strip on my hood in Nu Finish, a strip in Meguiars Cleaner Wax, one in Turtle Wax Emerald Paste and one in the Wet Wax that comes with Clay Magic. Well, I just did my first wash and the Nu Finish beaded nicely, the Meguiars beaded a little less and both the Turtle Wax Emerald and Wet Wax did not bead at all.
I will continue this test and report results.
Thir prices on TL (and it seems on all other cars) are the same as invoice!
I was getting a little sick of ALWAYS having my waxing questions answered with a hundred dollar Z-word.
I have used Meguiars products succesfully for the past few years on my cars. I lease, so what I am looking for in a wax is a smooth surface and good shine. I use Meguiars regular(?) paste wax in a can about once a month and it gives me a great shine. When I find that the surface is starting to be "less smooth" or show oxidation, I will use the liquid Meguiars Cleaner/Wax, followed with a coat of the paste. This does a great job of reviving the smooth finish.
I have had a new (black) 99 Passat for about a week and have washed once(using ZipWax brand car soap liquid) followed with the Meguiars Quick Detail Spray after chamois drying. This Detail Spray worked great and removed a few light water spots and restord the "gleam" to the factory(or dealer)applied wax. It is probably all I will use till fall when I give the car a couple of coats of the Meguiars Pastes Wax.
BTW, I have a friend who bought a silver Saab 900 new in 1986. He has NEVER waxed it! This car is in perfect shape, the paint is reasonably smooth and shiny with NO rust except for the bottoms of the doors(damn N.E. winters!) I asked him why he had never waxed and he said that he called Saab when he first bought the car and was told not to wax the clearcoat. Whatever you or I may think, this approach REALLY has worked for him.
I personally like the fresh shine, but never waxing a modern car, especially if you don't plan on keeping it forever, may not be THAT bad of a thing.
Has anyone else experienced this problem?
I plan to try to see what the Cult of the Z is about, to see if it is really worth the $$.
tree saps all over the hood and windshield. These
saps are tiny and clear but feel rough when you run your hand over the hood. It seems like if I wash my car really carefully, I can get rid of most of it. But I'm afraid that if it can be permanent if I leave it on too long. I tried waxing the car with one of those wipe-on wipe-off liquid wax (I think it's Meguiars)to get the shine and hopefully can remove those saps easier.(this stuff works pretty good, the finish feels very smooth)
Any idea of what can be done to get rid of those saps with ease?? Do I need to "clay" it? How do you "clay" anyways? Will just one-coat waxing help at all??
Thanks
Tree sap is a surface contaminant. If it is left on the paint it will do permanent damage. You can either use a cleaner/glaze/polish or clay.
I would use clay as it is fast and will not require that the surface be re-waxed. I use the clay from Griot's Garage with either their Speed Shine detailer or with Show Off detailer from One Grand Products. Others have posted their success with Erazure products but I have not used them.
Wash your car then follow the directions for the clay and detailing spray. Avoid trees at all costs. By the way you can use clay on your windshields too.
Good luck.
Won't the claying remove the was and/or Zaino from the top layer? And if so, should I reapply my finish? Damn tree sap!
Zaino is a polymer sealant that chemically bonds to the finish. This is why you must wait a while before wiping it or other sealants off. The longer they sit the more they "cure", up to 24 hours. Waxes don't cure in this sense.
You can think of sealants like Zaino, Finish First, Klasse, etc. as additional finish coats on the clearcoat. Adding more coats allows you to build on the previously applied layers. This building-up of layers increases durability and is one of their benefits.
Applying a second coat of wax will usually dissolve the first coat. This reduces wax buidup. Griot's Garage's Best of Show and One Grand's Blitz wax claim you can build layers with them (immediately with the former and after 5-7 days with the latter). Their increased durability is one of the benefits of them.
The biggest factors as to what the clay will do are the type of clay (they come in different levels of abrasiveness - I like the one from Griot's Garage), the slickness and amount of the agent used to lubricate the paint (slicker and more of it are better - I use a detailing spray), and how much pressure is used to rub the clay back and forth (less is better).
Of course you can use 3M's Adhesive and Tar remover (which removes waxes but not sealant) or any of the paint cleaners (they are often more work and also need wax, but not sealant, applied after them.)
Hope this helps.
#187 - bits in the paint
These may represent rail dust (dust from the train brakes grabbing the rails can settle on the car during its transportation on the train) or general surface contamination.
Good pro detailers do every thing twice - wash ing, polishing, waxing - in getting a car ready for Concours competition. I would suggest you wash your car twice with a good car wash then clay the finish as described above and elsewhere. If you do not remove the surface contamination before waxing or applying a polymer sealant you will entomb this material into your finish. This could in turn oxidize or rust and thus destroy your finish.
Since a 3 week old Jeep costs a lot, spend the time to protect your expensive purchase. I usually do not detail a whole car at once since the outlay of time would be too exhausting. People who spend 6 hours detailing their interior and exterior usually vow never to repeat the process.
I find that breaking a big job into multiple little ones helps to make them manageable. I will wash my car then treat (polish/glaze then wax) the paint on the horizontal surfaces (hood, trunk, and roof) and detail the front of the interior this week. Next week when I wash the car, I treat the vertical surfaces (sides of the car and the trim) and detail the back of the interior and the trunk. This keeps me from being overwhelmed and allows me to enjoy the tasks. Then when I wash the car each week I spend a little time to maintain what I have achieved. Do this and your car will always look great. Mine do.
As for the metallic bits, I didn't notice them when I first got the Jeep because I ran my fingers over the paint and it felt smooth. Now three weeks later running my fingers over the paint I feel these little micro bumps. I don't think it's rail dust otherwise I would have felt it from the start. Maybe it's brake dust from the other cars on the freeway? (I live in L.A.) Plus I look at my windshield and these micro-bits are also on the windshield.
So I'll take it in for a carwash this weekend and see if the bits come off, if not I'll see if clay takes them off, and then I'll give it the first polish/wax job. I ordered the Zaino products (z1,z2 z6) so I'll see if they work as advertised.
One last question is what do I use to lubricate the clay with? Any claying techniques I ought to know?
The major downfall with this is how long it takes, 5 -6 hours. It was worth the time due to the age of the vehicle and condition of the paint.
Not sure if all 3 steps would be necessary on a newer car.
Race Glaze is also a pretty good one step cleaner/sealant. Their claim to fame is that Race Glaze is "breathable" for the paint. It cost about $10 at auto parts stores.
Has anyone else used the Meguires 3 step process on a newer car?
I'm thinking about trying it on a car that is 3 years old but not sure if would be worth the time for all three steps.
Thanks,
Bill
I hope my Miguire's Gold Class wax will be ok for the last step.
Rick
The name of the products are Meguiar's Deep Crystal System - Step 1 Cleaner, Step 2 Polish, and Step 3 Carnauba Wax. Yes, they are all clear coat safe.
Check out http://www.meguiars.com/ for more info on Meguiar's products. They will even give you a detailed "prescription" on how to maintain your vehicle considering where you live, age of the vehicle, environmental factors, etc.
Good luck,
Bill
And I thought I was an anal retentive!
http://www.4realstuff.com/dshiney.html
Do you mean most standup comedians support Zaino?
Jokes aside, do you have a problem with Zaino? Why does it bother you so much? What qualifies someone like me as a joker? I just tried Zaino and liked it. Many other people liked it too. It is not the most expensive stuff, some people pay thousands for something like Zymol. It is not difficult to apply, and it gives great results.
You must be some immature jerk who makes a statement without backing it up with facts!!
Just to let you know, this "joker" researched this product thoroughly before buying just because I am very skeptical. After trying countless department store brands and Z I can honestly tell you that this is the best product that I have ever used. Zaino goes on and comes off easy and is very durable. The last application of Z on my car ('94 Honda Accord) was Dec. and I still get compliments on how shiny it is. I am sure there will be skeptics out there who love using the "old turtle wax" but that does not necessarily make them a "joker" nor I for my preference!
Thanks.
Gus,
Conference Host