Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

You're very welcome, 429. Individual dealers do not have the ability to alter a bank's published residual values. American Honda Finance Corp.'s 2 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for the 2004 Odyssey EX and LX is 67%, for the EX-L it is 65%, and for models equipped with navigation it drops to 63%. As you can see this van's residual values vary, depending upon how it is equipped. It will also vary depending upon how many miles per year you need to be able to drive. Both of these are possible explanations of why you have been quoted different residuals for this van.

Honda's lease program on the '04 Odyssey is pretty attractive right now. Its residual values will definitely drop in the coming months as the introduction of the redesigned version approaches. Whether or not the residuals will drop in September is difficult to say, but they will eventually fall. The question is whether Honda will lower its money factors or increase its dealer cash to help counter the decline in residuals.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

No problem, ranajo. Infiniti's August lease program is scheduled to run through September 7th. I would be more than happy to try to give you an idea of what its September program is like if you post a reminder in this discussion for me a few days after that.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

I definitely would not say that one gets "screwed" if they purchase their leased vehicle at the end of its term. Whether or not it is a good idea to buy a vehicle at lease-end all depends upon what its price is like. If you could purchase a similar model for much less on the open market then it is not a good idea to exercise your purchase option, but if your purchase price is less than an equivalent vehicle would be then buying is not a bad idea.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

You're right, dkman, Audi is providing quite a bit of support on the '04 A6 2.7T S-Line right now to help dealers unload them before the redesigned 2005 A6 arrives. Both the lease money factor and lease cash that are available on this car vary by region. If you were to lease a 2004 Audi A6 2.7T S-Line through Audi Financial Services in Texas on or before September 7th for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00010 and 47%, respectively. I believe that Texas is in Audi's Central region. In that area is is currently providing $3,000 dealer cash on AFS leases of this model right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

You're welcome, cpaman. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Sorry to hear about your accident, aezelig. The exact payment of the vehicle that you want will depend upon how long you lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. I should be able to give you an idea of what vehicles manufacturers are advertising with payments in the range that you mentioned, but the aforementioned factors will vary. Most automakers' August lease programs just expired or are scheduled to expire on September 7th. I won't have a good grasp of what their new lease programs are like until later on this month. Please feel free to check back with me then and I will try to point you in the right direction.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hey Damon. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what lease program on this minivan is currently like, but it just introduced its new September program yesterday and I have not had an opportunity to take a look at it yet. Please check back with me in a few days and I will be more than happy to try to give you an idea of what it is like.

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radtherapy1 · September 2004

I have a leased 2002 Jetta GLS 1.8T and it was recently in a horrible flood that totally damaged the vehicle and is not drivable. Since it's leased, will I get any compensation for my loss, or will I have to start from scratch?? According to NADA, it is worth $14775, and I have paid a total of $10700 so far. Will I get that $4000 or nothing at all?? Please help!

qbrozen · September 2004

Well, its smart if it works. If I were you, I would at least run the details of the car through the real-world trade-in values board and see what terry says the value is. Funny thing about checking around for prices, people can ask whatever they want for a car, its what they actually get for it that counts. good luck.

dkman · September 2004

Thanks - will do. Visited the dealer last night & had offer of only 1st payment down, approx $573/mo. for 42 months, 12k miles/yr. This was based on sell price of approx $42000 for a well equipped 2.7T, after $1000 loyalty and $500 email certificate from Audi. Still a bit high, I think, given the inventives now. I think he said the mf he was using was .0075. Will revisit him with Car_man's new info!!

Dkman

dkman · September 2004

Thanks, Car_man! Great info, as always (have been reading the board for a year now, even if just posted)...I'm going to revisit the dealer with my new ammo in hand.

Dkman

fish8 · September 2004

Sorry to hear about your car. If you leased through VW Credit they include GAP Insurance on all their leases. GAP Insurance works as follows: Your car is totalled. The car's payoff is $12,000. Your insurance company will only pay $10,000. Therefore, there is a $2000 neagative equity situation. This is where the gap insurance will come in. GAP will cover the difference between what the vehicle is worth and what the loan/lease balance is. You should not be out any $$ as far as covering the negative difference. Even if you did not lease through VW Credit, most lease companies include gap in their policy.

johnnh · September 2004

Thanks Car man! The figures you provided me with were very useful. I think i feel better no after doing some reaserch ont he prices and of course with ur info. I'll go to the dealer and get my altima after this weekedn! Thanks again.
John.

westtx · September 2004

"American Honda Finance Corp.'s 2 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for the 2004 Odyssey EX and LX is 67%, for the EX-L it is 65%, and for models equipped with navigation it drops to 63%"

Car_man, can you tell me why it appears that a better equipped van would have less residual value?

adgridley · September 2004

Car_Man - I'm back for the third time in many years. You were of great help to me in April when we leased an XC 70.

We're now looking at an XC 90 and was trying to find residuals and MF for an XC 90 (4WD, either 2.5T or T6). I'm interested in 48 months (give or take a couple of months) and rates at 12K & 15K miles/year. I'd look at the 04 models as well it there are any attractive deals on them right now?

Thanks in advance for your help. Best regards, Adam

agillman · September 2004

Carman,

I've ordered a car for delivery later this month. Can you please provide money factors and residuals for a 2005 LS430, 12,000 miles, 36, 39, and 48 months? I'm in California if that matters.

Thank you.

jk356 · September 2004

i am trying to decide whether leasing is right for me
The z4 would be a third car
Through circumstance, the price of the car would not significantly affect my checking account but im trying to be a smart shopper.
the market for roadster is soft right now.
There is a dealer incentive of 6500
the purchase price would be around 39000
for three years the residual is 58%
the milage 10,000
the mf .0022
i'm getting numbers around 650 per month.
1.Do these numbers seem close
2.Is there a cost advantege to two versus three year lease?
3. if i like the car at the end of lease and decide to buy it, would i have saved money by buying it initially

drose224 · September 2004

Carman,

Do you know what incentives BMW has on the Z4 Convertible for the month of September?

Thanks!

David

gregi30 · September 2004

Hi All,

Does anyone know of any bank that is still in the leasing business in NY. I want to lease a MB E500, but MB Credit has insane terms for NY leases. The bank fee is $1800, the money factor is the equivalent of about 7.5% and the residual is 61% for 36 months.

Will these numbers (not the bank fee) improve as we get closer, or even into, next year.

Thanks

rube · September 2004

I need help. I have figures on a vehicle I would like to lease but not sure if it is a good deal. Here they are: Honda Odyssey Ex with Res AT (no leather)

Dealer net 25448.11
gross margin 428.97
acq fee 595.00
gross cap 26469.08
cap cost reduction 1499.00 (that what that want down)
net cap 24970.08
msrp 28980.00
rv% (12,000 mile/yr) 68%
RVS 19706.40
money factor i think is .0088%
depreciation 219.32
service charge 39.68
lease payment 259.00 per month

Could anyone who is savy with leases please tell me if this is a good deal. How do you get them to get rid of the down payment or reduce the net cap cost effectively???

Thanks to anyone who can help!!!!

gregi30 · September 2004

Hi All,

Does anyone know of any bank that is still in the leasing business in NY. I want to lease a MB E500, but MB Credit has insane terms for NY leases. The bank fee is $1800, the money factor is the equivalent of about 7.5% and the residual is 61% for 36 months.

Will these numbers (not the bank fee) improve as we get closer, or even into, next year.

Thanks

anonymousposts · September 2004

There are no banks that I am aware of that are willing to lease on cheap terms in NY. The liability laws there make it a very risky proposition for leasing companies and captive finance companies.

kyfdx · September 2004

They will be happy to roll the downpayment into the cap cost.. That will change the monthly payment to approx. $322/mo.

This is the nationally advertised lease. The money factor is .00088, not .0088

regards,
kyfdx

rube · September 2004

Thanks for the info. Do you think this is a fair lease and can I negotiate it down?? Also there is a dealer cash of $500 what is that about? Also the lease if for 12,000 miles/yr and if I want to increase to 15000 miles they will charge $15 more. Do you think I could negotiate miles on this lease without increase in payment???

kyfdx · September 2004

The $15/mo is probably their actual cost for the increase in mileage.. you would have to negotiate another $300 off to get the higher mileage limit with the same payment.. You "might" be able to do that.

$500 is an incentive that Honda pays the dealer on each '04 Odyssey sold.. That is one of reasons they can lease it so cheaply.

rube · September 2004

Thanks for quick response. You are very knowlegable re: leases. Do you think the $1499 down is negotiable? It just seems that the 26,469.98 (gross cap) is high for this car when I checked actual prices. I just don't know if I'm getting a fair deal!

kyfdx · September 2004

I'm not the expert.. There might be a little room for negotiation, but I'm betting it is nowhere close to $1500... Maybe $500 more.. They will roll the $1499 into the cap cost, and include it in the monthly payment (which I would do), but I don't think you'll get them to "negotiate it away".

regards,
kyfdx

toyota1 · September 2004

2004 Toyota Highlander V6 4x4

Base Model $27,390
w/options $30,971 includes dest $540
Offered $27,920
Rebate 1k $26,920

NYS Tax @8.25% 2303.40
License 150.00

Do not know the money factor.
Residual $15,845
Term 48mo @ 12,000 miles

No money down $394 per mo
w/$2300 down $334 per mo
w/$2500 down $339 per mo which includes them making my last lease payment on current car.

Is this good or bad? Thanks!!!!

cjs2002 · September 2004

Alright... 3 days ago I went into a Mazda dealorship to inquire about there car add for a auto RX8 witht he sport package... the deal was no money down 24months 12K mls year for 299+tax... now I talked to them and was told it was no problem to make it 299 after tax I said great but couldn't sign the papers till after my father got back from his business trip (didn't want to make any mistakes) anyways I went in today with all intents and purposes plannin on driving off with a new car... well we got there and they said the "residuals changed and mazda pulled the insentives bla bla bal" well anyways to make long story short the payment is now 340+tax which is completely out of my budget... so I have a couple of questions...

1. w/o puting any money down (-first months payment,title,&license) how do I get this back to 299 for the 24months

2. if I can't do that could you please tell me what the prices would be per month for a 24 36 39 month lease.

3. is there anyone on the board who could off some help as to what they where able to sign and drive theres off for and what they all have option wise

I don't have the money to put down like the dealor wants to make the payments go back down and I'm kinda just sitting here thinking ya know its been 2 days... I don't think it would be that hard for them just to say fine we can do that deal for you... or is that just too mutch for me to possibly hope for... I'm quite tired of running from dealor to dealor getting the same BS and not getting anywhere... I need to get a new car by friday so Im really running out of time...
price on the RX8 sticker is 27500 (or close )
and the price there doing it off of is 24,900
please help... I'm really getting lost in all this....

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hi carmen1022. I always advise consumers who are considering purchasing their leased vehicles that it is probably a good idea to do so if their vehicle would cost less to buy than it is worth on the open market and most importantly if they have enjoyed driving their car and have not had any major problems or been in any accidents in it. Since you don't want to keep your car, but are just considering purchasing it so that you can turn a profit on it, you need to be absolutely positive that it will cost you less to buy than you can sell it for. Nothing would be worse than going through all the trouble of purchasing your leased car and selling it privately to actually lose money. You may want to stop by the following discussion that appears here in the Town Hall for more feedback on your car's current value: "Real-World Trade-In Values". One of our most knowledgeable community members, Terry, hangs out there and he is often kind enough to give consumers his opinion on vehicles' current values.

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mmer · September 2004

I walked out of the finance managers office, right before signing the papers to purchase a 04 Hyundai Santa fe,basic with a 499.00 sports package. Why?

We negotiated to a purchase price of 18,000.00"out the door" (from all accoutns the invoice price would have been about 17,999 for this vehicle).

Then we did some hagling over financing (I had been preapproved for a "balloon / lease type deal with my credit union, but of course the dealer wanted to "finance me today" so I can take my new car home today!)

They came real close to my credit union terms of 264 month for 60 mo, w/ about 5200 residue w/ 12,000 miles per year.

However the paper work listed the selling price of the vehicle at 18,990. Then it listed all the other "gobbly [non-permissible content removed]" regarding rebates, fees etc.

When I demanded an answer as to why the price of the vehicle went from 18,000 out the door to 18,990 I was given some lame obscure answer about "that's how leasing works, you plug in the numbers and that's how it comes out" then I was given given examples of how one "little thing" changes all the numbers: Down payment, length of lease , miles etc. I told them: "of course everything changes with those examples, but the selling price shouldn't change!!" I knew I needed to leave when he kept mentioning how they were "losing 500.00 on this deal" and showing me some fake mock up of the figures showing their invoice etc. Of course I didn't buy into that "stuff" after all I' read over the information , here at EDMUNDS first and know about dealer hold backs etc. I told the guy "don't mention the: we are not making money on this deal again, we both know it's not true"

he got flusterd and finally gave me a buyers order showing "18,000" out the door price and I'm taking that to my CU on Tuesday to get a check for them.

Was I wrong? Is there something I don't know about these lease/ballon finance deals that really DO inflate the "sell price"

thanks! Thank you too, to everyone at Edmunds for helping me make informed decisions!!

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

I have seen this car's new September lease program and would be more than happy to try to give you an idea of what it is like, Brian. You are correct, Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp.'s residual values are usually published on a quarterly basis. So its August residual values should be exactly the same as its September residual values. Its current base lease money factor for a 3 year lease of a 2004 C230 Sedan, neat car by the way, should be around .00200.

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mmer · September 2004

I walked out of the finance managers office, right before signing the papers to purchase a 04 Hyundai Santa fe,basic with a 499.00 sports package. Why?

We negotiated to a purchase price of 18,000.00"out the door" (from all accoutns the invoice price would have been about 17,999 for this vehicle).

Then we did some hagling over financing (I had been preapproved for a "balloon / lease type deal with my credit union, but of course the dealer wanted to "finance me today" so I can take my new car home today!)

They came real close to my credit union terms of 264 month for 60 mo, w/ about 5200 residue w/ 12,000 miles per year.

However the paper work listed the selling price of the vehicle at 18,990. Then it listed all the other "gobbly [non-permissible content removed]" regarding rebates, fees etc.

When I demanded an answer as to why the price of the vehicle went from 18,000 out the door to 18,990 I was given some lame obscure answer about "that's how leasing works, you plug in the numbers and that's how it comes out" then I was given given examples of how one "little thing" changes all the numbers: Down payment, length of lease , miles etc. I told them: "of course everything changes with those examples, but the selling price shouldn't change!!" I knew I needed to leave when he kept mentioning how they were "losing 500.00 on this deal" and showing me some fake mock up of the figures showing their invoice etc. Of course I didn't buy into that "stuff" after all I' read over the information , here at EDMUNDS first and know about dealer hold backs etc. I told the guy "don't mention the: we are not making money on this deal again, we both know it's not true"

he got flusterd and finally gave me a buyers order showing "18,000" out the door price and I'm taking that to my CU on Tuesday to get a check for them.

Was I wrong? Is there something I don't know about these lease/ballon finance deals that really DO inflate the "sell price"

thanks! Thank you too, to everyone at Edmunds for helping me make informed decisions!!

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hello proveg. While it is possible that some 2005 models are already at dealers, I have not seen any any lease program for 2005 BMWs yet. I suspect that there is a good chance that BMW is not currently providing any sort of lease support on '05s yet. If this is the case and you were to lease one through BMW Financial Services right now, you would have to use its standard lease money factors.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Sorry to hear about your messed up car, radtherapy1. At least you weren't in the car during the big flood. Consumers don't actually own leased vehicles, they are only essentially renting them. If your leased vehicle is totaled in an accident, or by a flood in this case, your insurance company will pay off the bank that you were leasing it through and you will not receive any money. In fact, if you do not have gap insurance on your car, it is entirely possible that the payout from your insurance company will not be large enough to pay off your car and you would actually owe money to the bank. Fortunately, I believe that gap insurance is automatically included with VW Credit leases and this is probably the bank that you are leasing through. Unfortunately, any sort of down payment that you made on this lease is essentially gone. This is why I always advise consumers not to make any sort of capitalized cost reduction when leasing.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

You're very welcome, Dkman. I am glad to see that you are such an avid reader of this discussion.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

I am glad to see that you found the information that I provided you with so helpful, John. Good luck and make sure to let us know how everything turns out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Sometimes it is difficult to say who one trim level of a model has higher residual values than another, westtx. Generally speaking through this usually means that the additional options on the better equipped model do not retain their value very well. Vehicles that are equipped with navigation systems are a perfect example of this phenomenon. Vehicles with navigation often have residual values that are 2% lower than equivalent models without this option because consumers just are not willing to pay much for it several years down the road.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Welcome back, Adam. Let's see what we can dig up on the new vehicle that you are considering. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Volvo XC90 2.5T AWD through Volvo Finance this month for 4 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00235 and 51%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2005 XC90 T6 should be .00199 and 53%. If you were to lease either of these models with only 12,000 miles per year, their residual values would be 2% higher.

I believe that Volvo quit providing lease support on 2004 models. Banks often quit providing lease support on leftover models at the end of the model year because their residual values have fallen so much that they are just prohibitively expensive to lease. They often replace any sort of lease support with dealer cash in an effort to get consumers to purchase or finance rather than lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hi agillman. Lexus' August lease program is scheduled to run through September 7th. It will introduce its new September program shortly thereafter. Please feel free to post a quick reminder in this discussion for me a few days after that and I would be more than happy to try to give you an idea of what its new lease program is like.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

You are absolutely correct, jk356. Sales in the roadster segment are very soft right now. The BMW Z4 is probably one of the best sellers in the group and its sales have been so poor that BMW had to up its dealer cash again on it this month. As you are already aware, there is a whopping $6,500 dealer cash on Z4 3.0 models in September. BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor on this car is actually .00200 for leases of up to 42 months in length right now. If the factor that you were quoted is higher than that, you are either having your vehicle's lease money factor waived or your dealer is marking up your factor to add additional back-end profit to your deal. BMW dealers are notorious for marking up money factors, so I would not be surprised if the latter is indeed the case. If you provide me with this car's full MSRP, selling price, how long you want to lease it for, and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it, I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on it for you.

It would actually be more expensive for you to lease this car for two years instead of three. This is because new vehicles experience their highest rate of depreciation during the first 12 months of ownership. The longer your lease is, the more payments you have to spread out this initial depreciation hit over.

Other than the fact that you have to pay a lease acquisitoin fee, you really aren't spending any more money to lease this car and buy it at the end than you would have spent if you had just paid cash for it initially.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Another Z4 question, huh, David

. I can't tell you what this car's base lease money factors and residual values are like without knowing how long you want to lease it for and how many miles per year you want to be able to drive it, but I can tell you about the cash incentives that are available on it. During September, BMW is providing $5,000 dealer cash on the 2004 BMW Z4 2.5 and $6,500 on the '04 Z4 3.0.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hey gregi30. You're right, Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp.'s already high lease acquisition fee of $795 is jacked up to a whopping $1,800 for leases in New York. This makes leasing through them in your state unreasonably expensive. I am not sure what independent banks dealers are leasing them through in your state. As far as this car's money factor goes, I believe that it is .00265 for three year leases in the entire country, including New York. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around 6.36%, which is not very good but is at least better than the 7.5% that you were quoted. Your dealer is probably trying to mark-up MBC's base money factor for this car. It is difficult to say if this car's lease program will improve as we get deeper into the model year. My guess is that its money factors will stay in this range, but it might increase the $2,500 dealer cash that is is currently providing on MBC leases of it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

If you need information on leasing, rube, you've certainly come to the right place. Let's take a look at the deal that you were quoted. It looks as though you were quoted a lease money factor of .00089, even though you wrote it in percentage form. Most banks use what are known in the industry as lease money factors to calculate the interest portion of lease payments. One can convert a lease money factor, which is expressed in the form of a five digit decimal, into an approximate interest rate equivalent by dividing it by 2400. So the money factor that you were quoted looks good to me. The only other aspect of your deal that you as a consumer really have any control over is the vehicle's selling price. It is difficult for me to analyze this van's selling price without knowing its full MSRP. I can tell you that Honda is providing $500 dealer cash on this vehicle that will help you to negotiate a more attractive selling price. Honda's August lease program on the Odyssey is scheduled to run through September 7th. It is difficult to say what its new September numbers will be after that date.

Another thing that I noticed about the deal that you were quoted is that your dealer asked you for a $1,499 capitalized cost reduction. Remember that consumers can and should always lease vehicles without putting any money down. Doing so will increase your monthly payment, but you wont be at risk of losing this money if your leased vehicle is stolen or totaled in an accident

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hi toyota1. It appears as though you were offered a lease on a 2004 Toyota Highlander V6 4WD that has a full MSRP of $30,971 for $27,920. This price appears to be right around dealer invoice, which is a very good deal. Toyota is actually a special lease on the Highlander for leases of up to 3 years in length in your area, its New York region, right now. I do not believe that its special lease money factors can be combined with the $1,000 customer cash that it is providing on it through. According to my calculations, if you were to lease the aforementioned truck through Toyota Financial Services in your area prior to September 7th for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $330. If you were to lease it for 4 years, you would have to use Toyota's standard lease program, but probably could take advantage of the $1,000 customer cash. Using these assumptions, its 4 year, 12,000 miles per payment would interestingly enough also be around $330.

In your post, you mentioned several quotes that you have gotten that require a substantial down payment. Consumers can and should lease any vehicle that they are interested in without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction. I say this for two main reasons. The first is if your leased vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this Highlander would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had made a $2,500 down payment to had not put any money at all down.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

Hi cjs2002. If I was in your situation, I would find a different dealership to work with. Mazda's special lease program on the 2004 RX-8 was scheduled to run without any major changes through September 6th. I have a sneaking suspicion that the salesperson that you are working with lied to you. In fact, even when its new September programs are introduced, I highly doubt that this lease support on this model will just disappear. Mazda will very likely continue its special lease on the RX-8 through the end of September.

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toyota1 · September 2004

Thanks Car_Man!!! I do believe though that he was giving me the $1000 off. I found out later that the money factor was 5%. Because I am not very good with calculations relevant to leasing, should I assume by your note that w/o money down my pmt would be around $350 including tax? He did quote me a mo.pmt of $446 @ 36 mo w/o money down, including tax, which I thought was rather high. I would think that the residual would be higher for a 36 mo. lease vs a 48 mo lease, right? Thanks!

cjs2002 · September 2004

when you find out could you post and let me know so I could have some hard facts to take in to support me... and yea I think I'm gonna go to a differnt dealer now

zimp4us · September 2004

I actually have a two part question. If I order a 330cic, do I arrange the lease at the order time or at delivery? Also, is there historically a best time of year to lease the 3 series convertible to obtain the best money factor?

pmiller1 · September 2004

Hello. I am considering trading in my 2001 Nissan Maxima lease in hopes of lowering my monthly payments with a less expensive, more economical vehicle. I've finished 3 years of a 5-year lease, and the end of lease residual value is $9640. According to Kelly Blue Book.com, the trade-in value would be $11,850. I have very low miles, and the vehicle is in good condition, although it needs new tires. Is this a good time to trade?

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