Ford 3.8 head gasket, AXOD transmission failures Windstar Taurus Sable - Ford secret warranty?

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Comments

  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    The only symptom in either vehicle was that they need to have coolant added at every oil change. Check your coolant level. If you have to add any, check it again after a couple of hundred miles. If you need to add it again, it's a good sign that you need a new head gasket. Oh, if I knew then what I know now...
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    Hi all,

    Guess what? This weekend I checked under the hood, and my coolant resorvoir (sp?) was almost empty (I haven't checked it in a while). I had the headgaskets replaced about 11 months ago, and had a coolant by-pass hose replaced about 3-5 months ago. On March 10th, I'm going to take it back to the dealership to have them service the transmission, but now I guess I'll be making either another trip or tagging on another job for them. It will still be under warranty if it is one of the above things leaking. Everyone cross your fingers for me!!
  • dhoffdhoff Member Posts: 282
    Thanks for posting the press release from Ford. Could someone post a link to it?

    Do you (or anyone) know if this extended warranty program applies to people who bought Windstars used? The reason I ask is that my brother-in-law bought a 95 Windstar and just had the head gaskets replaced recently.

    Thanks.

    Dave
  • jhendry1jhendry1 Member Posts: 2
    Johnnym1, Thanks VERY much for your response and recap of what happened with dealer re: your engine problem. I have one followup question.

    You mention Ford having a "PO7 program". What is that and what does it cover? Does it pertain to headgasket or bearings?. I ask because I've already had the headgasket problem which I've fixed on my own and now, based on Ford's extended warranty announcement the other day, I'll be seeking reimbursement from Ford. Now, I also have a bearings problem which my mechanic says will cost $2000+ to fix and I'm trying to find a way to get Ford to pay for that. I'm wondering if this PO7 program you mention may cover that.

    FOR MY GENERAL EDIFICATION, DOES ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT FINDING OUT IF A MANUFACTURER HAS AN UNPUBLICIZED "PROGRAM" TO FIX A PROBLEM? For example, in this case, we know Ford has a PO7 program. Is there a web site one can go to that says what that is?

    Thanks Johnnym1 for answering my followup question, and to anyone else who can offer info on my general question.

    Regards,
    jhendry1
  • johnnym1johnnym1 Member Posts: 3
    jhendry1,
    Your bearing problem is probably realted to the HG problem. Hope you have all of your receipts. The PO7 program is one of the "secret Warranties" that some have described here. As I understand, that is the program where they will replace the engine if the HG goes.
    I'm sorry but my story is even getting better. Talked to my service advisor today and he said that in light of Ford's recent 7 year 100,000 mile warranty announcement, I will not have to pay a cent for the new engine. I hope you all will be as lucky as I have been, if you have this problem.
  • fuji_hi_ltdfuji_hi_ltd Member Posts: 12
    Quality varies between cars, does anyone check this before they buy? there are sites all over the internet about ford taurus problems. sites like this one: http://tscnet.com/pages/sosburn/Taurus.htm
    describing problems with the taurus, sable, continental, and windstar. axod transaxle premature failure, and 3.8 liter engines with the faulty oem head gaskets. check opinion pages on your next purchase, consult an invaluable friend: consumer reports buying guide. this lists reliable used as well as reliable new cars. make your selections carefully, look at previous models reliablity etc. then go out, shine that taurus up real nice, and trade that thing in on a reliable car!
  • relievedrelieved Member Posts: 1
    Ford called me today to tell to contact my dealership and schedule my 95 Windstar's motor replaced at their cost!!! Needless to say it goes into the shop tomorrow for a new engine! I'm sure someone will post all the datails I don't have, but here's what I've been told by Ford:
    * The 98M01 program was extended to cover 'the gasket failure' problem to 100,000 miles.
    * Supposedly some incentives for trade-in for something new.
    * Loaner cars provided while your's is in for repair.

    The word about this program is just now becoming avail (in CT). My dealership - Hoffman, hasn't even read the whole thing yet, so I don't have much more to share. But it is real!!! I've talked to Ford in Mich and my Service Manager today!! By the way, Mich called me in response to an email I sent last week (thanks to what I learned here!!) Power to the People and Bless the Internet!!
  • fordprob95fordprob95 Member Posts: 6
    I also have a 95 Ford Windstar. Monday Feb 28, My heater would blown cold air then hot air. And it was running hot while it blew colded air, then it would blow hot air and cool the temp down. So I to took it to the Ford dealer and they advised I to had gasket problem. Today March 2, I called about my van. The Service Rep announced I now am leaking water form the Timming chain Cover " Funny thing I was not leaking water before the car was in shop". I'am Lucky my Neighbors sister works for Ford Service Dept in another town so I will be talking to her and find out what up with the lastest news.

    Does anyone know more about the Law Suit against Ford and or where you would go to find out more information on it?
  • windstarmamawindstarmama Member Posts: 2
    I really want to know about the class action suit against Ford and the trade in incentives. My head gasket has been replaced 2 times, replaced transmission once and it is running 'rough' again. It also sounds like a diesel engine when first started and when idling. Also, I have a problem with cold starts in the winter. The problem is that it doesn't start!!!! I have to hold down the gas peddle to the floor when it is cold. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Anyone else have this problem?
  • butch11butch11 Member Posts: 153
    If you think your head gasket is on it's way south-you can do a simple test. Let the engine get cold-remove the radiator cap-hopefully the coolant is up to the neck/top of the radiator. Then start the engine-if the coolant jumps up and down-the exhaust gas is getting into the cooling system and your head gasket is toast.

    One factor causing head gasket problems is having the engine block made of one metal and the heads another. Typically the engine block is cast iron and the head aluminum. They have differential expansion/contraction coefficients when heated/cooled. Over time the gasket will cease to function-why do the manufacturer's do this-CHEAP. Never buy a car with an engine and head made of different materials. Ford has been selling this trash for years-Quality is job one-right.
  • reid6reid6 Member Posts: 4
    Wow, this post has made me realize that I am not crazy! Having been beat up by Ford for the last 2 1/2 years over my '95 Windstar, I now see that I am not alone. Thank you.
    My problems started with a blown head gasket in July 1997. After it was replaced, the engine blew exactly one year to the day. After much back and forth, Ford agreed to pay 90% of the costs of the new engine. Three months later, in the spirit of "customer satisfaction," they paid the other 10%. End of problems I thought.
    I am still losing coolant from the reservoir, and this past Friday I blew an intake manifold gasket.The dealer is already giving me problems saying that this might not be covered under the extended warranty program. I have reached the end of my rope with Ford, and their dealerships. Does anyone have any information on the rumored class action suit I read about in a previous posting? Thanks, and good luck to all of you.
  • shekharpatelshekharpatel Member Posts: 27
    When will we as consumers learn. It is high-time we boycotted the FORD and everything it stands for..the substandard designs, shoddy work and unreliable vehicles. Ford company (and all the FORD shareholders) is in for a rude awakening, it has lost heavily on consumer satisfaction it is not long before this translating into lost revenue. FORD enjoyed a brand name loyalty... drummed up by the constant advertisements on TV and Radio. It is through internet the consumer is fighting back. The playing field is even and the odds are against the FORD. It is information (or lack of it) that translates into revenue, FORD is aware of that as it has sustained its existence based on suppressing the evidence (learning from the TOBACCO industry). THOSE DAYS ARE GONE. If FORD fails to satisfy the genuine concerns of ever increasingly vocal consumer, it is headed the way of dinosaurs.
  • floridamamafloridamama Member Posts: 2
    I've got a 93 Taurus--same problem as the others, Windstars etc. But the extended recall (which BTW is so coincidentally on the heels of the class action lawsuit) says 94-95 Tauruses. (Taurii ?) Don't I have the same 3.8 l engine in my 93??
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    But, Ford's thinking is that you ought to trade that worn out old 93 for a new 2000 model. After all, who but import owners plans to keep a car much longer than 5 years? I had a 93 T-bird that blew the head gasket (93 was the worst year for them, outside of the 95 Windstar debacle) in 1999 at 72,000 miles.
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    Well, I went to the dealership today. Guess what? Headgasket set #3. The 2nd set only lasted 12 months. Hopefully they will do it right this time. Oh well. At least they are doing it for free (under 12 month warranty.)
  • russlarussla Member Posts: 74
    Hello all,

    Forgive my ignorance, but my 96 Windstar 3.8 is losing coolant. I find that there is none in the oil, and the car doesn't seem to be chucking it out through the overflow tank, and I can't find a leak, so where is it going? and now that it is out of it's 3/36k warranty, will Ford repair it?

    Thanks in advance
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    If there is no visible leak, it might very well be the head gaskets. You need to get this checked. As for the warranty, I don't know. I know my '93 isn't covered by Fords new 100K miles warranty for the head gaskets.
  • davis81155davis81155 Member Posts: 1
    I too have just learned of the problem (as a shocked owner) and thus far the official Ford position seems to be relegated to '95 & prior on the Windstar, even though respected independent mechanics agree it is widespread...including '96 models. Does anyone have an angle on how to leverage Ford into doing the right thing? Or are we just expected to take the $2500+ repair bill hit? My warranty expired in Aug '99 & there are 44,000 measley miles on it. The dealer, of course, is unsympathetic. My symptoms appear to be in the "early" stages, but the trail of body bags is long and obvious, indeed. Any pointers (short of the usual long, ugly drawn-out fight with the dealer and Ford)??
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    You might start by visiting the following web site:

    http://home.att.net/~ccatanese/ford

    They have several suggestions, and success stories from people who've been there and won (this was leading up to the recall on the 95's). It looks like small claims court against Ford might be the best option for quick resolution.

    Good luck.
  • chubchub Member Posts: 3
    My van blew on a trip to Albany NY. 175 miles from my home, it was July of 98. Ford did replace the engine no charge and they supplied a rental for the two weeks of repair. Within a week of the engine replacement the transmission died, it was the forward clutch. Ford refused to help with this and claimed no knowledge of any known problems.
    I walked in the door of AAMCO and the serviceman said that is a Windstar and it won't drive after it is at tempature will it? I was impress because I hadn't said why I was in his shop.
    Has anyone had sucess in transmission replacement?
  • chubchub Member Posts: 3
    Will the factory rebuilt 3.8 carry the same headgasket
    woes?
  • rooneymsrooneyms Member Posts: 14
    be the intake gasket. There is a 2% failure rate on the '96 intake gasket and it causes the same problems as the head gasket. The projection is that the percentage will increase as the '96s gain more mileage. I have the TSB on it. Email me at Rooneyms@aol.com and I can fax it to you. For mine, the only sign was my heat wasn't working that well when I went to turn it on for the first time in October. I had some heat but not a lot. If you go to Chuck's web site, go under If you're a glutton button, then go to the Motor Trend article. It's a great article telling how to find if you have coolant leaking. One of the keys is not driving it if you have the coolant leaking. Our mechanic made us tow our car 5 miles once he found the water in the cylinder. Even a mile can damage the engine. The other key (from experience) is make sure after repairs, the pan is dropped. Our Ford dealership didn't drop the pan and probably ruined the engine. We also were starting to show signs of the head gasket going and I traded this weekend. Got hurt in the pocketbook something horribly but life without the Windstar is much better. Good luck!
  • butch11butch11 Member Posts: 153
    There was an article in today's LA Times stating ford has just announced an extended warranty covering ford 3.8L V6 engines from 1994 forward for 100K. The article did a bit of math and estimates ford may have to replace gaskets on half the 3.8L engines out there or about 350K of them. Wonder if ford will replace that cast iron block with an aluminum block and join the 20th century. The AXOD tranny could do with a face lift also.
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    butch11,

    Does Ford even use the AX-ODE transmission anymore? It hasn't been in the Taurus/Sable since '95.

    Also, Ford is completely phasing out the 3.8L engine in a few years. Currently, it is only in the Mustang (I think.)
  • edcostaedcosta Member Posts: 1
    Trying to not be repetitive... but...
    My Windstar 1995 had the head gasket replaced at least 03 times that I recall (I still did not check all my receipts), had the steering wheel system re-done twice, RECEIVED A NEW ENGINE last month and this week had a broken air conditioning.

    AND ALL THIS HAPPEN IN A WINSDTAR WITH ONLY 39K.!!!

    Fortunatly I had purchased an extended warranty and most of these problems were covered and I paid only the $50 deductible, but now I think FORD should also reimburse my expenses due to the falty
    head gaskets problems and consequences. I still have to work the figures, but I guess about $300/$500 worth in deductibles.

    Anyway, I was fortunate in purchasing the ESP before the factory warranty run-out. And at that time I had no clue about the problems described in this forum. Now the question is, to keep a car with new tires, new engine, new steering wheel parts and newly fixed/tuned air conditioning or to get rid of it ASAP. Does anyone know how reliable in the "new" rebuilt engine?

    HONDA or TOYOTA ????
    Thanks.Ed.
  • tim8tim8 Member Posts: 3
    I have a very slow coolant leak. I find a small circle of coolant on the driveway under the engine routinely. Is this indicative of a gasket problem?
  • lovett2lovett2 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 95 windstar with head gasket failure. My
    neighbor works for FOrd. My van had 65,000 at the time of failure. Ford flagged the problem, but it was not a recall . I got the problem fixed for about $100. Now, there is a lawsuit. Confirmed by my neighbor. The problem will be fixed for free up to 100,000 miles. Personally,
    I will never buy another Ford.
  • reid6reid6 Member Posts: 4
    Last year I had my engine replaced on my 95 Windstar. Last week it blew a intake manifold gasket. When I took it to a Ford dealer for repairs under my new engine warranty, they told me they would not fix it, because the previous dealer that had installed the new engine put in an engine that was not from Ford, or an authorized engine manufacturer (outside part). Any ideas on how I can get this thing on the road so I can buy a Honda?
  • chubchub Member Posts: 3
    I got the same in your face response in the Syracuse NY area.
    I guess fomoco is willing to lose the loyal buyers in order to maintain the bottom line.
    what happened to
    quality is job 1?
    built ford tough?
    or
    customer satisfaction?
  • emurphy1emurphy1 Member Posts: 5
    Check out the Automotive News (3/6/00) front page article on the gaskets. It's amazing how inconsistent they seem to be. In some cases, buy-back plus $3000 cash, $4000 incentive cash, extend the warranty to 100k mi. Locally, Ford bought back a beat-up '91 Taurus and gave $3000 to the owner. I have a nicely kept and equipped '95 Windstar GL w/70k mi. ,two blown gaskets plus other related symptoms and all they appear to be doing is putting a band-aid on an inherent problem with the engine by extending the warranty to 100k mi.
  • jpadgett2jpadgett2 Member Posts: 1
    Recently spent 3000.00 fixing a defective headgasket on my 94 sable. After looking up things over the web, I finally found that there was hope in paying me back for all costs. All I want is my money back and a fixed engine. Now, I feel that this car is sick and needs some help before she dies again. Ford will only pay for old repairs and not fix the problem that was caused by defective gaskets... This is horrible to hear...
  • gclheureuxgclheureux Member Posts: 1
    Do the new Windstars have the same problems? I was looking to buy a new 2000 Windstar, but I don't want to get stuck with these kinds of problems. Have they been resolved?
  • mgmdmgmd Member Posts: 5
    My response to the above, is please read all the postings. Even if the problem has been fixed, FORDS blantant disregard for their customers safety and overall terrible customer service should be enough to make anyone choose a car made by another company. Remember Ford basically did nothing about this issue until a class action suit was filed against them. Do yourself a favor buy a Honda Oddessey, I bought one in 96 and I'm glad I did.
  • juicejuice Member Posts: 4
    Ford's at it again. I bought a new 90 Ford conversion van and had numerous problems with it (transmission rebuilt 2x, new short block, wind noise, water leaks....) before I went to ford with the FORD Lemon law--what a Joke. A windstar owner at work asked me what I would do with Ford's offer on the windstar since he just had his HG replaced at $1200. I told him take the reimbursement and buy a GM or toyota. My van was the last Ford that will be in my driveway. I now own a 2000 Silverado--8000 miles and not a ford -- I mean problem with it.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    why not ask your dealer about the buy back program for 95 Windstars? It might get you more money than you'd ever get fixing it and selling it or trading it in. Just a thought.
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    I doubt Ford will buy his car back. It has 154k miles, well past the 100K mile warranty.
  • dougherdougher Member Posts: 2
    I have a '95 Windstar, had the blown head gasket 6 months ago, dealer said to replace engine, I took it to an independant mechanic who replaced head gasket for $1,000.00. Saturday I receive a letter rom Ford expressing concern for my safety, and wanting me to be treated fairly, and offered to repair or reimburse me for repairs to my engine as a result of this defect. They also offered some sort of credit toward the purchase of another Ford. Has anyone else who got this letter found out exactly how much this credit is? As crummy as the Windstar is, I DO have good luck with Ford trucks, and might just go the "credit" route.
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    I've heard that they are offering up to $5000 for the vehicle, and $4000 credit towards a new Ford product.
  • spencerchrisspencerchris Member Posts: 1
    I got the extended warranty letter about the HG and called my Ford dealer for details. (We had our HG replaced to the tune of $1000 at about 54K. Of course that was 6 months after the first recall expired.)

    He said you need your original receipt to file a refund claim at the dealer. You get a full refund for your trouble. The marketing deal is for $4000 credit towards a new Ford vehicle purchase. He put it this way "You make your best deal (price, trade in) and then Ford puts $4000 towards that deal. Wonder how that's going to affect the "dickering atmosphere."
  • mfriendmfriend Member Posts: 2
    Hello everyone. I too am another member of the head gasket problem. Have a 94 sable. Of course we didn't have a problem during the 1998 recall. We started experiencing the rough idle, running hot, heater problem a couple of months ago and were fortunate that Ford decided to extend the warranty. Took the vehicle a week ago and they replaced the head gaskets. But of course, they also found that the timing chain was leaking oil and coolant - a repair that we had to pay $430 for. Also they noticed one of the motor mounts was broke - but we told them we were not going to put any more money into it. Three days after I picked up the car, I was dropping my youngest off at the baby sitter and when I came out, the radiator was leaking antifreeze!!! I was so mad. In April of 99, both tanks in the radiator were replaced. I drove straight to the radiator shop and they said one of the gaskets was leaking. They replaced both, because they were afraid the other one would start leaking too. The owner at the shop told me he could guarantee that the problems I had twice with the radiator were due to the head gasket problem. He recommended I write Ford a letter to see if they will reimburse me. I guess its worth a try. Has anyone else experienced the problem with the radiator. I know that we are not planning to keep the car very much longer, and even though we have an F-150, we will not be getting another car from Ford.
  • wrongturn55wrongturn55 Member Posts: 1
    Have been reading some interesting posts. Had HGs
    replaced at 86k on 95 Windstar. Always knew there
    was a potential problem since my daughter's blew
    at 65k (under warranty) Complained loudly to Ford
    before their new program came out & got a call back from customer service telling me what to
    expect. I saw the dealer's letter before I got
    mine and it says cost of repairs or $4000 on new
    one as most of you already know. Going to find out
    for sure tomorrow how straight this is and see what
    kind of deal the dealer offers. I really want to
    buy another Ford. BTW I blew my HG 1000 miles from home. They have already refused to pay for
    the car I had to rent for 3 days.
    Wrongturn55 (in the heartland)
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    its legit, my gasket went out at 90K in January. I had actually gone back to the dealer to get my refund for the repair (1200) but the service people told me to talk to the sales guys about this 4K credit. Its only good for a new car though. I had asked aboiut maybe a used 98 or 99 Windstar and they said no. The dealer called Ford to check my car was in the group where they would give you this credit. I'm not really in the market right now and I'll probably get a GM van anyway as I really want that 8th seat but I thought I'd play the sales guy along a little. Ended up getting him to agree to a 2000 SE at $100 over invoice and I get the 4K credit from Ford plus theres a 1.5K cash incentive if I went that way. Boy was he annoyed when I walked out and said I really needed to sleep on this!
  • msrankinmsrankin Member Posts: 3
    I too have a 1995 Windstar. Bought it new in 1994 and only have 52k miles on it. Not any problems yet with the head gasket or anti-freeze leak etc.. Any suggestions? Is this going to happen and when? What are my odds? What can I do now before this "new" warranty offer expires - does anyone think the dealer would fix this prior to actual problem occurring?
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    No telling when it's going to happen. In our Windstar, the gaskets were leaking at 59K miles and we were "alerted" because of the "check engine" light. It came on while we were on vactation and a Ford dealer told us it was okay to ignore it and get it looked at once we got home, unless the car began "surging". Confident feeling. I guess clean living kept us from becoming a "vacation statistic". At any rate the dealer at home replaced them before they actually "blew".

    My 93 T-bird was another story. Nothing out of the ordinary, until one day (two weeks later) at 72K miles, smoke poured out the exhaust, the engine balked badly and the tow truck was called. But 93's aren't covered by anything, so there went $2,200 in repairs.
  • mfriendmfriend Member Posts: 2
    Who knows if your hg's will go or not. Unfortunately, I'd say the odds aren't too good in your favor after reading all the posts. My brother had a 93 taurus and got rid of it before his went out. He was experiencing all the symptoms. My best friend had a 92 taurus and they went twice!!! I know on our car, at 60,000, when the first warranty came out, we were experiencing no problems. Then in Dec-Jan - 2000, with 79,000, started having the symptoms. Check with your dealer, they would probably check them for you. As for the 4000 credit, my dealer told me they would not give that deal to anyone, it depended on how bad of shape your vehicle was in - in our case, our car is in good shape (the bearings were not out too, the hg's were just bad and had not blown yet.) Good luck!
  • reid6reid6 Member Posts: 4
    I just had a new engine put in my '95 Windstar last August. I have 5000 miles on it and it is currently in the shop for another head gasket. The check engine light came on, and oil was found in the #4 spark plug, and around the head. My first gasket blew at 73,000. My second gasket (and engine) blew at 91,000, and the third one 5000 miles later. I doubt they will fix them before you start losing coolant and see oil leaks around the heads.
  • windstarmamawindstarmama Member Posts: 2
    I just talked to my dealer. I have had 2 HG replaced, a complete engine, rebuilt transmission and misc other problems. Ford claims that since this work was done under warranty that I am not eligible for the trade in incentive. They said they have already paid for the repairs. The engine is still not running properly. I have just sent a letter to Ford and asked them to reconsider. Anyone else with this kind of response?
  • msolermsoler Member Posts: 2
    I purchased a used 94 Continental with the 3.8 engine and now I found out about the head gasket trouble. Mine has 60,000 miles and runs great, I was going to drive it to Fla. but I don't think so now. Has anyone had any gasket problems with the Lincolns? Also do you have to wait for damage to get the fix or will they do preventive maintenance.
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    msoler,

    If you are leaking antifreeze then you might have a problem. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it at this point. If you are leaking antifreeze, then take it to the dealership. Not all cars need to get the headgaskets replaced. Some, like mine, are on their 3rd set at 80K miles. Don't worry about it until a problem shows up.
  • emurphy1emurphy1 Member Posts: 5
    Check out my responses above, #190 & 192 for my experience. Lotsaluck!
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