Just spoke to my dealer who said a high percentage of 95's coming in for checks showing signs of failure. Mine is in the form of oily residue in the coolant reservoir. For those not experience difficulty, try shining a flashlight through the reservoir at night. If contaminated, you will be able to see it. Incidently, mine ran perfectly until just a few weeks ago - i.e not a catastrophic failure but more of a deteriorating situation. Car is still running fine most of the time.
kent25, that is what it was like for me. In addition to just having "chocolate pudding" (that is how it was described to me by the mechanic) looking residue in my coolant reservoir, I also had a very weird sweet smell coming out of my heater vents. Oh, that was the 2nd time the h-g went. The first time was when I bought the car 1 year and a few weeks ago. The temperature gauge was acting very strange. Whenever I would accelerate, the temperature would go to cold. Whenever I sat at a light, it would almost go to normal. The problem was there was not enough coolant in my radiator for the thermostat to take the temp (it can only take the temperature of the liquid, not air.)
Luckily I've never had to pay to get them replaced!
All,
The most important thing is to make sure you don't run out of coolant. If your engine overheats, you are in for some serious problems (possibly replacing the engine.) If you catch it before then, it isn't nearly as bad.
Ford has begun sending 7 year/100,000 mile warranties to 95 Windstar owners of record (as well as 94-95 3.8 Taurus owners). This warranty will reimburse you for a blown head gasket repaired beyond the 3/36000 normal warranty, or there is a Manufacturers incentive available if you wish to purchase a new Ford, Lincoln or Mercury product. The incentive is $4000.00. They have made a sale with me!
Interesting - I wasn't aware that this was an "either/or" kind of deal. I thought that they were repairing the engine AND offering an incentive and a "buyback" if the vehicle needed a new engine AND one could not be found in a timely manner.
Sorry, but if you've had to go thru the hell of dealing with Ford prior to the "new" extended warranty (which doesn't cover owners of Mustangs or T-Birds, nor does it cover any vehicle prior to 1994...and 1993 wasn't a year for them to be proud of either), you wouldn't take even a $10,000 icentive.
It's kind of like an abused wife going back to her lowlife husband because he said he's sorry and buys her a new ring or something. You can't help but feel that she's going to get beat again.
I went to the dealer, verified that I qualified for the $4,000.00 rebate deal, then had my '95 Windstar LX (every option except leather), 65,000 miles, good shape, engine has been repaired. They offered $5,500.00 on trade. Hmmm... I owe $8,500.00 and sales tax difference on a new car (explorer) is about $1,000.00. WHAT A COINCIDENCE! I'm not (yet) taking that kind of offer!
Well good news - sort of I guess. I took my '95 Windstar in for door light sensor repair and mentioned it was running a little hot - they said they checked and they advised a new $4000 engine. I got out of there fast and went to my usual mechanic - he spent a week but found a clogged radiator. He was alerted by a Ford web bulletin. I'm glad I didn't jump to any conclusions without a second opinion. He said that the head gasket issue he'd seen were ones between 35K and about 75k.
My 95 Windstar is running well, but I am having it checked out by the dealer next week to see whether there is any head gasket problem. What are the warning signs that a problem might exist? I'm concerned particularly since I have heard some reports that cite "catastrophic" failure of the engine. Does that mean that I could be driving along the interstate and suddenly lose all power, thus risking an accident?
That's what happened to my wife. Running about 70 mph and it went. Smoked like heck and barely ran. Supposedly, there wasn't a catastrophic failure of the engine, but it did do $2,200 damage. And when i got it back, it ran really rough. I traded it ASAP to get out from under it.
Symptoms - can't keep antifreeze in the overflow tank
Check engine light comes on.
That's about it. OUrs ran fine, but at every oil change they added coolant. Didn't think much of it then, but, I didn't know about the head gasket problem either.
We were at our dealer today, and the sales manager mentioned that Ford will buy back our car AND give us $3000 to walk away from our 1995 Windstar "if we qualify." He also said that if we buy a new car or van they will give us $4000 toward that (plus buy back our van). Question is: We have a loaded 95 Windstar that has already gone through 2 engines and a gasket repair on the second engine (yes, we've done THREE head gasket repairs!) What are our chances???? Any thoughts?
My transmission went at 50K , but a rebuilt one only cost me 1400 (Minnesota dealer) and its going fine at 90K, how come everyone else is paying so much more, were these totally new ones?
To scottsthename, to stop that clunking and difficulty shifting when you shift out of P after being on a hill, always set your handbrake when you stop before shifting into P. Service guy told me that after I had the transmission fixed, works all the time. That clunk doesn't have anything to do with the transmission problem.
I had to have the head gasket job at 90K. I'm not totally sure it was due to the problem everyone else has. My engine spat out a spark plug (so much for 100K plugs, no one checks them !) and my wife didn't stop immediately so maybe that did something bad as this occurred a few months before the gasket went. We had an Integra which went through 2 head gaskets by 75K and my wife had a Civic do the same at 60K so I don't see my Windstar as being a real lemon!
Should I get rid of my 95 now and take Ford up on their 4K, that 0.9% is real enticing but it does mean another Ford!
We have 110,000 miles on our '95 Windstar and Ford told us that even if the vehicle had 100 miles over they would not cover it. Is anyone aware of Ford replacing the 3.8 head gaskets, via the extended warranty, if the Windstar has over 100,000 miles on it? It's an LX in beautiful condition!
I had a 95 windstar gl, had engine replaced for free by ford @ 58,000 +/- (nov 99), then had to get the transmission done on way to disney world at about 60,000 (dec 99). Had a new 1 yr extended warranty for the drive components that i got when the engine was replaced. Cost 550. plus rent a van for week. got check from ford for 35 a day.
Last night traded in the 95 van for a 2000 windstar. the ford program is $4000 off your best deal. I got $6500 in Southern NJ but had to fight to get that. Wouldn't have done it without 4000 & 0.9 finance. got new van w/ premium care & payments are lower than my last van.
0.9 last til 3/31. This might be extended if the other car manuf. extend their 0.9. Go to other dealers & let the one you want to buy the car from that you are searching @ other dealers. never buy on 1st visit. price will always come down to get you back in the door. take a day off to shop at several places. end of the month is great time to buy.
Hello, my 95's hg went out at 85k. While in the shop we heard about the offer; we took the $4000 and a 2000 Windstar. You do have to pay for the repair,( our's was not repaired at a ford dealer) I got $6500 in trade, 2.9% financing, and the 4k. I couldn't turn that down. You don't have to put the 4k towards the van, I financed the whole thing and will put the 4k in my mutual funds.
I have a 95 Windstar. Had the head gasket done in August 99 with 58,000. Now have 77,000 and I think it is using antifreeze (not leaking anywhere). Will Ford replace them again for free?
I'm from Central, NJ. My 95 Windstar's head gasket went at 76,100 back in December of 99. I had it fixed for $1,260 at a local repair shop in January 2000. (The dealer wanted to charge a little over $1,800.)My van, fully loaded, with 78,200 miles is in otherwise great condition. Paid it off in April of 99. I had thoughts of trading it in because of the fear I had of it going again. I also thought the transmission might become a problem. (Mine was like message # 224) However I was never going to purchase another Ford product again until I heard about their incentive. At first I was going to ask for the refund. But when I went to check it out they offered me $8,200 on my trade, discounted their sticker price, and gave me 0.9 financing on the rest. After all was said and done I got a $29,860 fully loaded van for $16,408. I even got pin stripes at no extra charge. A beautiful looking van at an excellent price ... now all I have to hope for is that Ford put out a product that's free from defect! That'll be the deciding factor as to whether or not I made the right decision!!
To message #224 of 234: 95 Windstar (scottsthename) Sat 25 Mar '00 (07:37 AM) : I don't know if it's cause for worry or not, but my transmission sounded exactly as yours did. I'm glad to have traded it in.
We have a '95 Windstar with 74,000 miles on it and the only problem we have had is the cruise control went out and had to be repaired. The transmission is shifting sort of funny now, though, so if that has been a problem it sounds as if it is time to get rid of it. My wife has driven it since it was new and loves the thing, so I don't know if I'll be able to convince her to or not.
Anybody have any other major problems after they got high mileage on one?
Have you had your transmission serviced yet? If not (it is recommended at 30K, 60K, 90K, etc) take it to a place that will flush the system. Don't just take it to a place that will clean out the pan. I had this recently done to my Sable as preventative maintenance, and it is shifting a little nicer now.
I have an '89 T-Bird with a 3.8, which is still running strong today at 145k, with no major work done. On the strength of that, I made the mistake of buying a '94 Taurus. The usual sad litany- bad motor mounts, replaced the tranny at 70k, AC gave up the ghost at 75K, finally developed a timing chain cover gasket leak which resulted in trashing the engine's rod bearings. Also went through brake rotors like nobody's business. Did manage to get 138k out of it, may be some kind of record considering how dodgy the car is. Anyway, it's a shame Ford went so far wrong with the 3.8. My old T-Bird gets 32 mpg on the highway, & it's a sweet running engine. I'm amazed how Ford can justify not covering the mid-90's 3.8 T-Birds with their extended warranty too. Aren't these engines just as problematic as the ones in the front-drivers? Were they built in a different plant than the Taurus/Windstar engines? Is it just that there were a lot fewer T-Birds sold, so Ford decided they could ignore those people?
I owned a 93 t-bird with the 3.8. Loved it, until the head gasket blew. I did a lot of research at the NHTSA site for 3.8 head gasket problems from 1991-1996. Aside from the 1995 Windstar fiasco, 1993 was the worst year for complaints. Of course, T-birds and Mustangs weren't part of the "#1 selling car in America" group, so their numbers were lower. But considering that there were less than 15,000 T-birds produced in 1993, there were still something like 20 complaints in the NHTSA database. Compare that to the 1 report for the 1993 Accord, in which almost as many of those were sold as Taurus/Sable.
Ford's attitude seems to be that a car should last no more than 6 years before trading it on a new one. Trade in on my T-bird sucked, mainly because it had a 3.8 engine in it. I guess Ford's attitude for 94 Mustang and T-bird owners is that there weren't enough sold to warrant doing anything for them. They apparently can afford to have that small number of people turn away from Ford products. I know I did. When the 95 Windstar nears it's 7 year or 100,000 mile mark, or when the transmission goes (whichever comes first), that will be the last Ford to grace my garage.
I one of the unlucky ones to not be covered becuase my Taurus is a 93 even though it is the exact same engine made in the same plant as the 94 (I checked). After many futile calls, letters, and E-mails to the customer assistance center (JOKE) at Ford my last resort was to file a small claim against FORD for selling a defective engine.
Maybe this way I can get a portion ($2,500 in my State)of the $3,700 I spent on a new engine. I have heard through other sites that they will most likley not fight it and will settle out of court. Chuck Catanase site mentioned in previous notes above has some links/details in how to file suit and what to do.
Either way I will never buy another FORD product or subsidiary ( HERTZ, VOLV0, MAZDA, etc)again!
Another head gasket victim. - 11-97 bought 95 Windpark 63000 miles for $10,800. All fine until 2/6/99, 79k miles - head gaskets only - hunting temperature gauge with intermittent heat, symptoms along with oily dark residue in reserve tank. Got the typical vacuous response from the customer service phone rep. at Ford HQ. Cost $997. to fix at local repair center. ABS lamp came on but with no noticeable problem and no code found by mechanic. Then the stabilizer bar is found snapped at the frame bushing, $200. Now its summer 98, and the A-C gets sick! Throw a charge in it $100., but it still dosn't work very well - mechanic says the dash A-C control is the culprit - he told me $300-400 so I left it alone. Now late summer 99 the ABS lamp comes on to stay, along with a engaging of the ABS just before a stop, with just normal pedal pressure, the mechanic determines the ABS module n/g to the tune of $1000., and again I leave that alone and keep driving. Fall 99 now and the trans. starts to develop a slip between 1 and 2. Oh yeah I forgot to mention the timing cover leak also, had that done for $480.- we had problems locating the leak, I was worried it would be a external leak from a head!! yipes! So now i'm driving this with the ABS problem, The A-C n/g and a tranny on the way out, could use some new sneakers tune-up ect. and then I get the letter from Fomoco for the H/gasket refund 3/20/00. had ten days to decide before the current .9% and rebates expire?? 3/31. I know I won't get crap for the 95, nobody wants them now and it needs about $1500. put in to it, getting used tranny and abs module, plus 91k miles at this point. So I clean her up and start dealing - reluctantly --- I got a 2k LS with a bunch of options in it for $25,260 about $40. over invoice. Squeezed $4500. from the 95 Wstar in trade - seemed like a fair deal when you consider the additional $4k from Ford even though $1k is my money.- $7500. back from a vehicle which I paid $10,800 for 28 months ago and put about $1800. of unessesary repairs into. This ford has premium care on it for sure!!! And the typical neurotic ford owner behind the wheel worrying what will break next! You want RELIABILITY BUY the HONDA I only got the new ford because it was the best way (i feel) to get away from the other one! Good luck to all:-)
The new windstar might be a great vehicle, but you would have to be a bit of a masochist to want to try it. ...beat me, whip me, slap me, please me...make me buy another Ford.
I agree on the Honda. I have a 91 Accord, best damn car I ever had. The trouble is I could never afford the Honda van, if it was't for the 4k I couldn't afford the 2k windstar. MOney does talk. I'll pray the Ford will hold up.
Bought the wagon used from a dealer in 8/98 w/46k miles. I checked the registration history and it was first registered in 9/94 so not yet 4 years of use. Great looking wagon inside and out, loaded and nice to drive. I hadn't seen the various msg boards although I did check reliability on some major sites and it looked okay. I take a train to work and will put only a few thousand miles a year on the car. What could go wrong ? My problems started six weeks later and continue today.
1- brake warning light comes on. 2- radiator starts leaking the day before service appointment for brakes. 3- Feb'99 when in for a recall the head gaskets are also replaced under the program. So we didn't have them blow while driving. 4- 3 months later the trans starts having problems going into 1st. Aluminum forward piston replaced with steel piston. 5- still smell coolant occasionally during the summer but don't see any leaks and coolant level stays constant. 6- rear tires wear badly on the inside edge and there's no adjustment for it. Dealer can do something but it might not help and would cost $300. I replace all 4 tires instead. 7- Fall '99 power steering pump starts making a noticeable noise. 8- coolant starts leaking from the area of the water pump. Could be just a hose but I can't even see where it's leaking from and knowing this car it's probably the pump. 9- flange on the ignition switch breaks requiring the switch to be replaced (so I can sell it!). 10-the trans is starting to act-up again going into 1st. Not too bad yet. Maybe I was taken on the repair (a trans shop). 11-tried the AC a few weeks ago and the compressor doesn't kick on. Fuse is ok. The gas mileage is 14/gal except during the winter when it's 10/gal - seldom goes on the highway. We've owned this wagon for 20 months, paid a good price for it ($8000+tax) and put 8000 miles on it. It now has 54k miles. The service people at the local dealer have been very nice but then I haven't pressed them for anything. The problem is it's a Ford product and a lemon. I can deal with paying for bolt-on items that need replacing (excepting the radiator and ignition switch) and maintenance items. But it has the lousy 3.8L engine and a bad trans which are big ticket items. It's enough to pay for the maintenance stuff. Ford finally acknowledged the head gasket problem by extending the warranty to 7yrs/100k miles. Unfortunately that doesn't make the car any more reliable. Every time something gets fixed something completely unrelated goes wrong. It is by far the worst car mechanically that I have owned in the last 30 years. The only reason we haven't gotten stuck on the road is we don't take it anywhere. My cost: $8000 car 480 tax 400 radiator 100 belt (maint) 230 brakes (maint-expensive to cut the rotors but can't complain,brakes are great) 000 head gaskets - free 1050 trans forward piston + some other stuff 100 ignition switch - service mngr installed for free since we got it keyed at a locksmith 300 tires (maint) --------- $10660
It will need a battery and exhaust system soon, the AC compressor replaced, the coolant leak checked out and fixed, back brakes, a power steering pump and who knows if the trans will go again. I'll take a hit on the trade-in because I'm not going to get all of this work done. So we paid $10660 for 20 months of use to go 8000 miles. I still really like the wagon and almost hate to get rid of it but the AC was the final straw. I'm basically disappointed that I made such a bad decision buying the wagon and more so that Ford builds these lemons. I look at the wiring on the engine and it looks like an amateur designed it compared to the Buick I own. Like other people here I will NEVER EVER buy another Ford product.
For those with 100k+ - Careful not to over look another Ford problem with radiators that can look like head gaskets. The Ford dealer was ready to sell me a $4500 engine on the Windstar with 145K miles. My mechanic found a very very plugged radiator. 10k more on the van and the engine is fine.
The person who advised complete flush of transmission and removal of the pan for cleaning is right - did this regularly with my '93 Tarus (traded w/135k) and now the Windstar. I notice the difference right after the work is done. My mechanic advised since Ford has had a history of tranny problems on front-wheel cars/vans.
pjyoung The wife and I got a good chuckle from your response! Just hope i'm not crying later with the new windstar. Picked it up yesterday, wife is happy to be in a new ride, i'm not happy about another car payment! Oh well, as it turns out 2 days before, the check engine light comes on the 95 and I find the coolant tank empty! maybe H/G # 2?? I'm glad I won't know, now its dealer or wholesaler's problem. Like I said in my previous posting the 2000 gets premium care warranty - I wonder what the chances are if I make enough noise if Ford would give me the warranty for gratis? after all I figure all I basically got for the 95 was $4500. plus the $4k credit minus the $1k H/G repair (theoretically my $$) which equals $7500. which according to the N.A.D.A. price guide is $1k over trade value - not that great of a deal but I'm rid of it. ( This vehicle was super clean though - I was an auto body repairman and detailer 15 yrs.) I know the sliiping tranny killed the value, also the ABS problem! I think the AC may have slipped by. Fortunately the check engine / possible H/G problem did not show until the next day - after the dealer had already assessed the 95's trade-in! When I dropped it at the dealer's yesterday I drove it right out back and into the wholesale line so they would not move it till after I had gone! Not that they care the H/G would be covered anyway. Still I don't think the tranny should have been an issue on the value, its troubles were certainly not by my neglect took into account their history - wife driven - fluid and filter changed at 75k miles - well before the slipping started. Same holds true with the ABS module and AC problem - vehicles costing $18k to $28k and over should not experience these types of problems before their 5th birthday - 85k miles!!
I just rented a new 2000 windstar to go on vacation. It was a great looking vehicle, and only had 2600 miles on it. Things started as soon as I exited the rental lot. It had a roll side to side at most speeds, and a lot of road noise from the General tires. With the windows closed you could listen to the radio, opened it sounded like a winds storm. On the way home the transmission started to act up. I was in bumper to bumper traffic at the time, as I started to go with my foot off the brake, it picked up speed and vibrated. I put a total of 1700 miles on the trip. I have now changed my opinion about purchasing this ford minivan. Reading your responses, I'am not sure that this van is going to be better then what you traded in.
I haven't talked to Ford about the trade incentive on the '95 Windstar as yet, but wanted to ask if anyone with a Windstar trying to take advantage of that offer has tried to use it on a truck instead of a car or another Windstar. Has anyone tried it on the F-250 with crew cab, for example?
Our decision to buy a 95 Windstar was based on a rental. We rented it to go on vacation (prior to that we rented Aerostars and in retrospect, I may have been better off buy one of those). At any rate, people may "drive the heck" out of a rental, but taking one for a week would tend to give a person a better idea of the reliability, quality, and everyday driving than a quick spin around the block with the salesman sitting beside you.
I think driving a car for a week gives the person a better idea of comfort and driving tendencies the car has, but reliability and quality are very dependant on the driver. A car that someone redlines constantly and drives very hard will have more problems that the same car if it had been driven by someone who doesn't drive it really hard.
I received a recall a couple of weeks for my 95 Windstar. So last week I left it took it the dealership. Within an hour I was called by the service dept and they told me that it needed a new engine, I had two options,
1) Have a new engine put in at no cost to me 2) Take a blue book price + $3000 towards the purchase of a new vehicle, so in total $9725
I was also told that the car was off the road and could not be driven nice of them to do that to me!
I decided to check out vehicles and within a day found one at the same dealership that would work. I asked the sales guy to put together an estimate based on the 2.9% financing that was available.
Very soon he arrived back with the sales manager who wanted to describe "the deal".
He said that I could put the $3000 towards a new vehicle, but that the blue book amount would be mailed in a few weeks, and thus could not be used against the purchase of the new vehicle. They didn't offer any other alternatives, other than to suggest that once I got the money from Ford I could put against the principle, which would mean that the life of the loan would be shorter, but the car payment would be higher.
The other thing that I noticed having read some of the responses in this forum was that Some individuals were offered $4,000 not the $3,000 that was offered to me.
I was ready to buy a new vehicle at that time. They seem to have gone out of their to mislead and deter me from taking that path.
This whole situation has been a fiasco, and I doubt that I will do business at that dealership in the future. The one worry that I have now is that in the course of putting in a new engine, they mess up something else, like the transmission
My 95 W is being looked at next week and I am hoping for buyback. I looked at an Explorer on the basis that $3K would make that a decent deal, and I assume the credit can be used against non-Windstar Fords. I also looked at the trucks (I hope my wife isn't reading...)
steve, the reason some have recieved 4k and others 3k, is the 4ks paid out of pocket for the h/g replacement, out of the first 60k warranty extension. (some I've seen as high as $2k range)- myself paid 1k plus $480., later for timing cover leak - (related to the removal of heads)- do the math, you make out better!. As far as your vehicle stands now with you is a matter of personal choices - the blue book + 3k is rather attractive if your looking to get out from the 95 - (does it have high miles, needs other work you know of - ect. ect. can you afford a new vehicle, do you really like the 95 + so on) The new engine will buy you more life and as far as the tranny is concerned if you've owned the 95 since new or know its history and have maintained the tranny as you should with a ford product you may be ok for a while (I emphsize (may) because these trannys do have a bad rep.) As far as the dealer goes, well the way I see it, is of course they will deter you from new - they don't want to be stuck with the 95, although I don't quite understand this stragety, as I have read that Ford would take these particular vehicles back and scrap them - I don't know for sure its just what I read somewhere - (mind you I've spent hours in front of the computer the last week reading up on this matter! having trouble keeping track of all info!) If that is the case the dealer gets rid of it and gets their $$ back. One thing I have found though just from the few dealers in my area on this buyback or credit deal is the absolute lack of knowledge some had about this! One dealer I allowed to make a copy of my letter and call Ford HQ to confirm its validity!! I was tired of argueing with him something that was clearly stated in black and white!!! Anyway the dealer I eventually went with allowed for the 4k before he even had it approved by ford, he had already processed a few of these and had no problems, so now the matter is who you deal with, how educated they are by Ford and how ethical they want to be ! If you want a new vehicle (Ford, Lincoln, or Mercury as my letter stated) tell the dealer that you want to take the 3k credit and shop another dealer! The blue book value should be the same at the other dealer and I'm sure if they want to sell a new car they will match trade in + go and tow the 95 from the other dealer, for free - its your choice, don't let them push you into something you do not want!! Be sure to do all your research on this site as well as others before you deal -- don't get beat on the 95 or on the new vehicle if that is the route you go! good luck..
As I stated in an earlier post, you don't have to use the 4k toward your new purchase. If you qualify, you have the option to take the 4k in cash. My wife has picked up the check today, it goes into mutual funds tomorrow. At 2.9% I financed the whole amount, the 4k should earn more than the finance charge(I hope). So to answer an earlier question, yes, you should be able to buy a F-250 with this offer.
There has been alot of confusion about this deal. I was the first to use this at my dealer, so we waited an extra couple of days to make sure every i was dotted and every t was crossed. My dealer was very helpful. It's a small-town family owned Ford dealer. Good luck to you all on whatever you decide to do.
First the "fun" of having the Gasket go on our Windstar a SECOND time! Add me to the "1995 3.8 Loser" file (but I'm also a member of the "driving 10 year old Honda I can't seem to Kill" club). Anyway. Took it to a decent dealer who determined it was the HG again. The service person brought up the 4K incentive & the 100K extended warranty (but I already knew about it thanks to this site). So off we went today & test drove a new Taurus. Not bad. But now the salesperson says that, because the van is technically still under warranty, our only option may be to have it fixed. Possibly no 4K incentive option for us but he was "checking into it" for us. Any thoughts? It was my understanding that the offer was the CHOICE of having the HG repaired OR taking the $4,000 incentive towards a new car. I really want out of this clunker but now it seems we may be left with only the choice of having the HG fixed AGAIN.
My letter from Ford stated you have the choice of reimbursement of repair bill on HG or special incentive and to see your Ford dealer about the incentive. So... dealer told me the special incentive was for $4K toward a new Ford auto. dMan8's $4K cash deal is the only one of that kind I have heard of, so I don't know what it takes to qualify for that. Our situation in a nutshell: We have 95 WS; HG went out last year at 64K miles, just outside first extended warranty. Got it repaired with our own money (not happy). Received letter offering warranty to 100K if HG has not blown; or reimbursement for repair if paid out of own pocket or $4k toward new Ford (happy again); went to Ford to negotiate deal; offered me only $5K for trade-in on 83K good condition WS which leaves me upside down on loan by $3K nearly negating the value of the $4K incentive (not happy again). Would like to go to another dealer to negotiate but dealer says I must use $4K incentive at his dealership since he applied for it (really not happy now). On hold until Ford rep works something out with dealer. Might just take the reimbursement for HG repair and buy a Chevrolet. See topics under Van conferences for other experiences with WS and buyback, incentive, etc. Nothing ever seems to be simple...
These postings are very helpful. It's interesting to hear the breadth of experience people are having with this 'special incentive' offer from Ford.
I think the comments about the $4K being available only to those who paid for the head gasket repair out of their own pocket are correct, based on what several dealers have told me.
But each dealer puts their own spin on this. One told me that it takes 7 - 10 days to process the request, so if you come to terms with a dealer on a new car, you still have to wait 7 - 10 days before you can close the deal. That's why I wasn't able to make a deal in time to get the $1500 rebate that closed on March 31. But no problem - Chrysler has announced $1750 rebates for the second quarter, so it's only a matter of days before Ford follows suit.
But another dealer told me they could do it in 48hrs, and yet another said they could do it on the spot. I finally was able to talk to a live body at the Ford 'customer service' line and he confirmed the first dealer's estimate of 7 - 10 days. Which now makes me believe the other two were lying to me just to get me to come in.
My advice (and I'm not through this process yet, so it may change) is don't turn over your paper work (the letter from Ford and your repair receipt) until you've got the sale price of the new vehicle and the trade-in for your old one in writing. The story about the weasel of a dealer that said the person couldn't go to another dealer because he (the dealer) had already 'applied' for the certificate was amazing.
As for the trade-in's that people are being offered, it sounds as though they're on the low side. So far I've been offered 4.5 and 4.7, and I don't have the kind of problems other's have been citing. If that's all I can get for the '95 I'm not going to trade it. I'll just take my refund for the repair costs and drive it till it drops dead, which from the sound of things might not be all that long.
But at least then I'll be free to get something else.
My 95 WS, immaculate condition < 40K mis, blew headgasket. Was towed to dealer, where it has sat for past two weeks. Dealer service people determined that rebuilt engine (they say they would use a 96)is only way to repair; then it would have 1year/12k warranty. Because of the delay in obtaining engine, they offered me Ford's program of buyout plus "customer appreciation" of $3k, which comes to $9,650 toward new product. I need another van, don't really like the ford/mercury sedans so this means another WS.
Looking into new vehicles, I could get an SE that, with the 0.9 deal, sets me back about 315 per mo. taking into account the credits from the old car. I hate to take on new expenses, but I don't see much downside. If I keep the 95 and put the $300 or so into savings toward a replacement vehicle down the road, this means that after one year I have about $4k+interest, while the 95 continues to depreciate; seem like break even to me, unless the car lasts more than two years WITH NO MAJOR EXPENSES (a BIG "if").
On the other hand, if I get a 2000, I could keep it for a couple of years, while under warranty, then trade in for a different make altogether and hopefully the 2000 will maintain value enough so that the total cost of ownership for the time I have it is tolerable.
Hello to all. Wanted to pass some info. along to you folks having been a member of the 3.8 windstar losers club! First to 5speed1 : Just as indytab and scarleto indicated above, the 4k offer is only good if you paid out of pocket for repair of H/G. Stating directly from my letter from Ford: "If you have already paid to have the head gasket repaired, prior to the date of this letter, you may be entitled to a refund of your repair costs, or, for a limited time, an option to purchase a new Ford, Mercury or Lincoln vehicle under a special marketing program." Second response to indytab: Your dealer sounds like a real sleaze! First you should get more for trade in, 6k at least, assuming what I got - $4500. with $ value figured in for the work it needed - which brought the value up to about $6 -6.5k. Then did you authorize him to submit for the 4k? Sounds like if you had not cut a deal on new vehicle ie: a purchase contract on paper, he should not have submitted paper for 4k! I'd cut this dealer loose tell him to call Ford and cancel payment of the incentive and go to another dealer who will treat you right to make a fair and honest sale! Third response to scarleto: It did seem to me that there were varying twists on this program depending on the dealer I spoke to and how they chose to interperate the offer! Fortunately for me the dealer I ended up with did not need to wait for the offer to be processed, he was comfortable with the reciept and cancelled check I had provided him, and he had already done a few others and was O.K. with the program. Also I never had to turn over my original March, 00 letter from Ford to them! But I guess that each dealer can play it any way they want! So shop around. Also agree on the .9% or $1500 being continued for a while longer, because of the competing model's offers. Joeb18: Quite a dilemma isn't it? You feel it's not a GREAT deal but not that BAD of a deal to get out from a Lemon - If you can afford it, get the new van - (no worries???) Dump the 95 Lemonstar! Best wishes to all - bails745.
95 Ford Windstar (LX with all the options, 74K miles in great condition) owner looking to get out of vehicle. I unfortunately have had only one HG failure which was fixed under the new warranty a few weeks ago. The car has been exhibiting some quirky behavior since...door lock actuator on passenger side functioned fine before repair...now broken. Some missing and bucking from time to time on startup but this is not sustained. Radio will go off on it's own and will not turn back on until it just does (haunted car?). Problem not apparent before repair but now happening. I have spoken with several dealers and Ford Customer Group but no one wants to help me out of this problematic potentially dangerous vehicle. My only recourse is to hope and pray that this vehicle's engine blows completely before the end of the warranty. Shocked and amazed that Ford would allow us out here with one HG failure to hope and pray for the speedy demise of our vehicles. I run em till they die but now find myself forced into trying to sell a car nobody wants while still owing money on it. GROSSLY UNFAIR!!
Well, after reading these posts for several weeks now, there is certainly a wide range of experiences regarding the WS ext. warranty. To answer bails745: well, I "sort of" authorized my dealer to apply for the $4K cert. I took copies (not originals) of my Ford letter and repair receipt to find out about the incentive. The service manager said he would send in the numbers (VIN, mileage, etc.) and when the certificate came in I could sign it and then hand over originals. However, based on what Ford HQ told me over the phone, I could take the certificate to any Ford dealer after receiving it. Dealer argued that why would he put in the work to get the cert. for another dealer to get a sale. Good question, but I didn't set the procedures, Ford did. Also, someone in one of these posts indicated Ford also reimburses dealers for the time to apply for the certificates. If accurate, the dealers don't lose anything.
If they had offered a more reasonable deal for my 95 WS, I would have bought a Taurus last week. I had one picked out, we were in negotiations and then, zip for 95 WS leaving me in an "untenable pecuniary situation" (ie, couldn't afford it).
My emotions and particular struggles aside, it does appear that Ford is trying to right things with the HG problem. Unfortunately, there are many ways for the dealers to work this situation. Some of the experiences I'm reading about are quite positive (see also Vans/Windstar Problems conference) so I suppose I need to find the right dealer.
To Windstuffed: haven't had the quirky electrical problems you've experienced, though for some time little electrical things have gone awry: dome light stays on for two hours sometimes, tape player needs repair, cigarette lighter/power socket is erratic. Anyway, after HG has been repaired all seems to working well (even transmission). If we have "one of the good ones" it may make more sense to keep it since the bad reputation of the 95 WS seems to be spreading and it has lost alot of trade-in value.
This week I will be trying to hammer out the $4K incentive mess and will post progress.
Joeb18,I have been thinking along the same lines as you, except my wife and I are ready to leave the mini-van and get into a sedan (children nearly grown). My objective was to get enough of a down payment from the $4K cert. and rebates to finance a low monthyly payment and not be upside down on loan after 3 years (end of warranty period). The big question as you have noted, is the trade-in value after several years. If you are looking at a 2000 WS you might want to check the reviews in various books and comments in the Vans conferences for how the 2000 WS is shaping up. Maybe make a conservative (worst-case) estimate of depreciation after 2 to 3 years and figure these numbers into your financial calcs.
We see the $4K incentive as a way to maintain nearly the same monthly payment but trade an 82K mile car with suspect pedigree for a brand new vehicle under warranty (a little more peace-of-mind). Now, if I could only get more trade-in from the dealer....
Don't forget you're the customer and the dealer is a representative of the auto maker and is there to SERVE YOU! You have every right as I see to change your mind and go to another dealer if their offering a better deal!! Insist on taking receipt of that certificate it belongs to you - not them, until you purchase a new vehicle from them. The time spent processing is not your problem, that should be between the dealer and Ford (a part of doing business selling the product?) Good luck with them this week!
Comments
that is what it was like for me. In addition to just having "chocolate pudding" (that is how it was described to me by the mechanic) looking residue in my coolant reservoir, I also had a very weird sweet smell coming out of my heater vents. Oh, that was the 2nd time the h-g went. The first time was when I bought the car 1 year and a few weeks ago. The temperature gauge was acting very strange. Whenever I would accelerate, the temperature would go to cold. Whenever I sat at a light, it would almost go to normal. The problem was there was not enough coolant in my radiator for the thermostat to take the temp (it can only take the temperature of the liquid, not air.)
Luckily I've never had to pay to get them replaced!
All,
The most important thing is to make sure you don't run out of coolant. If your engine overheats, you are in for some serious problems (possibly replacing the engine.) If you catch it before then, it isn't nearly as bad.
"either/or" kind of deal. I thought that they were repairing the engine AND offering an incentive and a "buyback" if the vehicle needed a new engine AND one could not be found in a timely manner.
Sorry, but if you've had to go thru the hell of
dealing with Ford prior to the "new" extended
warranty (which doesn't cover owners of Mustangs or T-Birds, nor does it cover any vehicle prior to
1994...and 1993 wasn't a year for them to be proud
of either), you wouldn't take even a $10,000 icentive.
It's kind of like an abused wife going back to her
lowlife husband because he said he's sorry and
buys her a new ring or something. You can't help
but feel that she's going to get beat again.
Try selling the Windstar on your own. I'd be surprised if you couldn't do better than $5,500.
Also, the Explorer is very expensive because of the current SUV craze. For the $9,500 you can get, you can buy a Focus for about $1000 (maybe less.)
Symptoms - can't keep antifreeze in the overflow tank
Check engine light comes on.
That's about it. OUrs ran fine, but at every oil change they added coolant. Didn't think much of it then, but, I didn't know about the head gasket problem either.
Question is: We have a loaded 95 Windstar that has already gone through 2 engines and a gasket repair on the second engine (yes, we've done THREE head gasket repairs!)
What are our chances???? Any thoughts?
To scottsthename, to stop that clunking and difficulty shifting when you shift out of P after being on a hill, always set your handbrake when you stop before shifting into P. Service guy told me that after I had the transmission fixed, works all the time. That clunk doesn't have anything to do with the transmission problem.
I had to have the head gasket job at 90K. I'm not totally sure it was due to the problem everyone else has. My engine spat out a spark plug (so much for 100K plugs, no one checks them !) and my wife didn't stop immediately so maybe that did something bad as this occurred a few months before the gasket went. We had an Integra which went through 2 head gaskets by 75K and my wife had a Civic do the same at 60K so I don't see my Windstar as being a real lemon!
Should I get rid of my 95 now and take Ford up on their 4K, that 0.9% is real enticing but it does mean another Ford!
Last night traded in the 95 van for a 2000 windstar. the ford program is $4000 off your best deal. I got $6500 in Southern NJ but had to fight to get that. Wouldn't have done it without 4000 & 0.9 finance. got new van w/ premium care & payments are lower than my last van.
0.9 last til 3/31. This might be extended if the other car manuf. extend their 0.9. Go to other dealers & let the one you want to buy the car from that you are searching @ other dealers. never buy on 1st visit. price will always come down to get you back in the door. take a day off to shop at several places. end of the month is great time to buy.
good luck
I got $6500 in trade, 2.9% financing, and the 4k. I couldn't turn that down. You don't have to put the 4k towards the van, I financed the whole thing and will put the 4k in my mutual funds.
To message #224 of 234: 95 Windstar (scottsthename) Sat 25 Mar '00 (07:37 AM) :
I don't know if it's cause for worry or not, but my transmission sounded exactly as yours did. I'm glad to have traded it in.
Anybody have any other major problems after they got high mileage on one?
Have you had your transmission serviced yet? If not (it is recommended at 30K, 60K, 90K, etc) take it to a place that will flush the system. Don't just take it to a place that will clean out the pan. I had this recently done to my Sable as preventative maintenance, and it is shifting a little nicer now.
T-Bird gets 32 mpg on the highway, & it's a sweet running engine. I'm amazed how Ford can justify not covering the mid-90's 3.8 T-Birds with their extended warranty too. Aren't these engines just as problematic as the ones in the front-drivers? Were they built in a different plant than the Taurus/Windstar engines? Is it just that there were a lot fewer T-Birds sold, so Ford decided they could ignore those people?
Ford's attitude seems to be that a car should last no more than 6 years before trading it on a new one. Trade in on my T-bird sucked, mainly because it had a 3.8 engine in it. I guess Ford's attitude for 94 Mustang and T-bird owners is that there weren't enough sold to warrant doing anything for them. They apparently can afford to have that small number of people turn away from Ford products. I know I did. When the 95 Windstar nears it's 7 year or 100,000 mile mark, or when the transmission goes (whichever comes first), that will be the last Ford to grace my garage.
Maybe this way I can get a portion ($2,500 in my State)of the $3,700 I spent on a new engine. I have heard through other sites that they will most likley not fight it and will settle out of court. Chuck Catanase site mentioned in previous notes above has some links/details in how to file suit and what to do.
Either way I will never buy another FORD product or subsidiary ( HERTZ, VOLV0, MAZDA, etc)again!
Who knows, you might be surprised! The new Windstar might be a great vehicle. Don't count it out yet.
use. Great looking wagon inside and out, loaded and nice to drive. I hadn't seen the various msg
boards although I did check reliability on some
major sites and it looked okay. I take a train to
work and will put only a few thousand miles a year
on the car. What could go wrong ? My problems started six weeks later and continue today.
1- brake warning light comes on.
2- radiator starts leaking the day before
service appointment for brakes.
3- Feb'99 when in for a recall the head gaskets
are also replaced under the program. So we
didn't have them blow while driving.
4- 3 months later the trans starts having problems
going into 1st. Aluminum forward piston
replaced with steel piston.
5- still smell coolant occasionally during the
summer but don't see any leaks and coolant
level stays constant.
6- rear tires wear badly on the inside edge and
there's no adjustment for it. Dealer can do
something but it might not help and would cost
$300. I replace all 4 tires instead.
7- Fall '99 power steering pump starts making a
noticeable noise.
8- coolant starts leaking from the area of the
water pump. Could be just a hose but I can't
even see where it's leaking from and knowing
this car it's probably the pump.
9- flange on the ignition switch breaks requiring
the switch to be replaced (so I can sell it!).
10-the trans is starting to act-up again going
into 1st. Not too bad yet. Maybe I was taken on
the repair (a trans shop).
11-tried the AC a few weeks ago and the compressor
doesn't kick on. Fuse is ok.
The gas mileage is 14/gal except during the winter
when it's 10/gal - seldom goes on the highway.
We've owned this wagon for 20 months, paid a good
price for it ($8000+tax) and put 8000 miles on it.
It now has 54k miles. The service people at the
local dealer have been very nice but then I haven't pressed them for anything.
The problem is it's a Ford product and a lemon.
I can deal with paying for bolt-on items that need replacing (excepting the radiator and ignition switch) and maintenance items. But it
has the lousy 3.8L engine and a bad trans which are big ticket items. It's enough to pay for the maintenance stuff. Ford finally acknowledged
the head gasket problem by extending the warranty
to 7yrs/100k miles. Unfortunately that doesn't
make the car any more reliable. Every time something gets fixed something completely unrelated goes wrong. It is by far the worst car
mechanically that I have owned in the last 30 years. The only reason we haven't gotten stuck on
the road is we don't take it anywhere.
My cost:
$8000 car
480 tax
400 radiator
100 belt (maint)
230 brakes (maint-expensive to cut the rotors
but can't complain,brakes are great)
000 head gaskets - free
1050 trans forward piston + some other stuff
100 ignition switch - service mngr installed for
free since we got it keyed at a locksmith
300 tires (maint)
---------
$10660
It will need a battery and exhaust system soon,
the AC compressor replaced, the coolant leak
checked out and fixed, back brakes, a power steering pump and who knows if the trans will go
again. I'll take a hit on the trade-in because
I'm not going to get all of this work done.
So we paid $10660 for 20 months of use to go 8000
miles. I still really like the wagon and almost
hate to get rid of it but the AC was the final
straw. I'm basically disappointed that I made
such a bad decision buying the wagon and more so
that Ford builds these lemons. I look at the wiring on the engine and it looks like an amateur designed it compared to the Buick I own.
Like other people here I will NEVER EVER buy another Ford product.
The person who advised complete flush of transmission and removal of the pan for cleaning is right - did this regularly with my '93 Tarus (traded w/135k) and now the Windstar. I notice the difference right after the work is done. My mechanic advised since Ford has had a history of tranny problems on front-wheel cars/vans.
I wouldn't place too much trust on reliability and quality from driving a rental. People TRASH rentals, and drive the "heck" out of them.
I think driving a car for a week gives the person a better idea of comfort and driving tendencies the car has, but reliability and quality are very dependant on the driver. A car that someone redlines constantly and drives very hard will have more problems that the same car if it had been driven by someone who doesn't drive it really hard.
1) Have a new engine put in at no cost to me
2) Take a blue book price + $3000 towards the
purchase of a new vehicle, so in total $9725
I was also told that the car was off the road and could not be driven nice of them to do that to me!
I decided to check out vehicles and within a day found one at the same dealership that would work. I asked the sales guy to put together an estimate based on the 2.9% financing that was available.
Very soon he arrived back with the sales manager who wanted to describe "the deal".
He said that I could put the $3000 towards a new vehicle, but that the blue book amount would be mailed in a few weeks, and thus could not be used against the purchase of the new vehicle. They didn't offer any other alternatives, other than to suggest that once I got the money from Ford I could put against the principle, which would mean that the life of the loan would be shorter, but the car payment would be higher.
The other thing that I noticed having read some of the responses in this forum was that Some individuals were offered $4,000 not the $3,000 that was offered to me.
I was ready to buy a new vehicle at that time. They seem to have gone out of their to mislead and deter me from taking that path.
This whole situation has been a fiasco, and I doubt that I will do business at that dealership in the future. The one worry that I have now is that in the course of putting in a new engine, they mess up something else, like the transmission
There has been alot of confusion about this deal. I was the first to use this at my dealer, so we waited an extra couple of days to make sure every i was dotted and every t was crossed. My dealer was very helpful. It's a small-town family owned Ford dealer. Good luck to you all on whatever you decide to do.
Anyway. Took it to a decent dealer who determined it was the HG again. The service person brought up the 4K incentive & the 100K extended warranty (but I already knew about it thanks to this site).
So off we went today & test drove a new Taurus. Not bad.
But now the salesperson says that, because the van is technically still under warranty, our only option may be to have it fixed. Possibly no 4K incentive option for us but he was "checking into it" for us.
Any thoughts? It was my understanding that the offer was the CHOICE of having the HG repaired OR taking the $4,000 incentive towards a new car.
I really want out of this clunker but now it seems we may be left with only the choice of having the HG fixed AGAIN.
Oh well. New Taurus was nice enough.
I think the comments about the $4K being available only to those who paid for the head gasket repair out of their own pocket are correct, based on what several dealers have told me.
But each dealer puts their own spin on this. One told me that it takes 7 - 10 days to process the request, so if you come to terms with a dealer on a new car, you still have to wait 7 - 10 days before you can close the deal. That's why I wasn't able to make a deal in time to get the $1500 rebate that closed on March 31. But no problem - Chrysler has announced $1750 rebates for the second quarter, so it's only a matter of days before Ford follows suit.
But another dealer told me they could do it in 48hrs, and yet another said they could do it on the spot. I finally was able to talk to a live body at the Ford 'customer service' line and he confirmed the first dealer's estimate of 7 - 10 days. Which now makes me believe the other two were lying to me just to get me to come in.
My advice (and I'm not through this process yet, so it may change) is don't turn over your paper work (the letter from Ford and your repair receipt) until you've got the sale price of the new vehicle and the trade-in for your old one in writing. The story about the weasel of a dealer that said the person couldn't go to another dealer because he (the dealer) had already 'applied' for the certificate was amazing.
As for the trade-in's that people are being offered, it sounds as though they're on the low side. So far I've been offered 4.5 and 4.7, and I don't have the kind of problems other's have been citing. If that's all I can get for the '95 I'm not going to trade it. I'll just take my refund for the repair costs and drive it till it drops dead, which from the sound of things might not be all that long.
But at least then I'll be free to get something else.
Looking into new vehicles, I could get an SE that, with the 0.9 deal, sets me back about 315 per mo. taking into account the credits from the old car. I hate to take on new expenses, but I don't see much downside. If I keep the 95 and put the $300 or so into savings toward a replacement vehicle down the road, this means that after one year I have about $4k+interest, while the 95 continues to depreciate; seem like break even to me, unless the car lasts more than two years WITH NO MAJOR EXPENSES (a BIG "if").
On the other hand, if I get a 2000, I could keep it for a couple of years, while under warranty, then trade in for a different make altogether and hopefully the 2000 will maintain value enough so that the total cost of ownership for the time I have it is tolerable.
Am I thinking the right way about this?
Any comments welcome.
If they had offered a more reasonable deal for my 95 WS, I would have bought a Taurus last week. I had one picked out, we were in negotiations and then, zip for 95 WS leaving me in an "untenable pecuniary situation" (ie, couldn't afford it).
My emotions and particular struggles aside, it does appear that Ford is trying to right things with the HG problem. Unfortunately, there are many ways for the dealers to work this situation. Some of the experiences I'm reading about are quite positive (see also Vans/Windstar Problems conference) so I suppose I need to find the right dealer.
To Windstuffed: haven't had the quirky electrical problems you've experienced, though for some time little electrical things have gone awry: dome light stays on for two hours sometimes, tape player needs repair, cigarette lighter/power socket is erratic. Anyway, after HG has been repaired all seems to working well (even transmission). If we have "one of the good ones" it may make more sense to keep it since the bad reputation of the 95 WS seems to be spreading and it has lost alot of trade-in value.
This week I will be trying to hammer out the $4K incentive mess and will post progress.
We see the $4K incentive as a way to maintain nearly the same monthly payment but trade an 82K mile car with suspect pedigree for a brand new vehicle under warranty (a little more peace-of-mind). Now, if I could only get more trade-in from the dealer....