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Ford 3.8 head gasket, AXOD transmission failures Windstar Taurus Sable - Ford secret warranty?
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Comments
that is what it was like for me. In addition to just having "chocolate pudding" (that is how it was described to me by the mechanic) looking residue in my coolant reservoir, I also had a very weird sweet smell coming out of my heater vents. Oh, that was the 2nd time the h-g went. The first time was when I bought the car 1 year and a few weeks ago. The temperature gauge was acting very strange. Whenever I would accelerate, the temperature would go to cold. Whenever I sat at a light, it would almost go to normal. The problem was there was not enough coolant in my radiator for the thermostat to take the temp (it can only take the temperature of the liquid, not air.)
Luckily I've never had to pay to get them replaced!
All,
The most important thing is to make sure you don't run out of coolant. If your engine overheats, you are in for some serious problems (possibly replacing the engine.) If you catch it before then, it isn't nearly as bad.
"either/or" kind of deal. I thought that they were repairing the engine AND offering an incentive and a "buyback" if the vehicle needed a new engine AND one could not be found in a timely manner.
Sorry, but if you've had to go thru the hell of
dealing with Ford prior to the "new" extended
warranty (which doesn't cover owners of Mustangs or T-Birds, nor does it cover any vehicle prior to
1994...and 1993 wasn't a year for them to be proud
of either), you wouldn't take even a $10,000 icentive.
It's kind of like an abused wife going back to her
lowlife husband because he said he's sorry and
buys her a new ring or something. You can't help
but feel that she's going to get beat again.
Try selling the Windstar on your own. I'd be surprised if you couldn't do better than $5,500.
Also, the Explorer is very expensive because of the current SUV craze. For the $9,500 you can get, you can buy a Focus for about $1000 (maybe less.)
Symptoms - can't keep antifreeze in the overflow tank
Check engine light comes on.
That's about it. OUrs ran fine, but at every oil change they added coolant. Didn't think much of it then, but, I didn't know about the head gasket problem either.
Question is: We have a loaded 95 Windstar that has already gone through 2 engines and a gasket repair on the second engine (yes, we've done THREE head gasket repairs!)
What are our chances???? Any thoughts?
To scottsthename, to stop that clunking and difficulty shifting when you shift out of P after being on a hill, always set your handbrake when you stop before shifting into P. Service guy told me that after I had the transmission fixed, works all the time. That clunk doesn't have anything to do with the transmission problem.
I had to have the head gasket job at 90K. I'm not totally sure it was due to the problem everyone else has. My engine spat out a spark plug (so much for 100K plugs, no one checks them !) and my wife didn't stop immediately so maybe that did something bad as this occurred a few months before the gasket went. We had an Integra which went through 2 head gaskets by 75K and my wife had a Civic do the same at 60K so I don't see my Windstar as being a real lemon!
Should I get rid of my 95 now and take Ford up on their 4K, that 0.9% is real enticing but it does mean another Ford!
Last night traded in the 95 van for a 2000 windstar. the ford program is $4000 off your best deal. I got $6500 in Southern NJ but had to fight to get that. Wouldn't have done it without 4000 & 0.9 finance. got new van w/ premium care & payments are lower than my last van.
0.9 last til 3/31. This might be extended if the other car manuf. extend their 0.9. Go to other dealers & let the one you want to buy the car from that you are searching @ other dealers. never buy on 1st visit. price will always come down to get you back in the door. take a day off to shop at several places. end of the month is great time to buy.
good luck
I got $6500 in trade, 2.9% financing, and the 4k. I couldn't turn that down. You don't have to put the 4k towards the van, I financed the whole thing and will put the 4k in my mutual funds.
To message #224 of 234: 95 Windstar (scottsthename) Sat 25 Mar '00 (07:37 AM) :
I don't know if it's cause for worry or not, but my transmission sounded exactly as yours did. I'm glad to have traded it in.
Anybody have any other major problems after they got high mileage on one?
Have you had your transmission serviced yet? If not (it is recommended at 30K, 60K, 90K, etc) take it to a place that will flush the system. Don't just take it to a place that will clean out the pan. I had this recently done to my Sable as preventative maintenance, and it is shifting a little nicer now.
T-Bird gets 32 mpg on the highway, & it's a sweet running engine. I'm amazed how Ford can justify not covering the mid-90's 3.8 T-Birds with their extended warranty too. Aren't these engines just as problematic as the ones in the front-drivers? Were they built in a different plant than the Taurus/Windstar engines? Is it just that there were a lot fewer T-Birds sold, so Ford decided they could ignore those people?
Ford's attitude seems to be that a car should last no more than 6 years before trading it on a new one. Trade in on my T-bird sucked, mainly because it had a 3.8 engine in it. I guess Ford's attitude for 94 Mustang and T-bird owners is that there weren't enough sold to warrant doing anything for them. They apparently can afford to have that small number of people turn away from Ford products. I know I did. When the 95 Windstar nears it's 7 year or 100,000 mile mark, or when the transmission goes (whichever comes first), that will be the last Ford to grace my garage.
Maybe this way I can get a portion ($2,500 in my State)of the $3,700 I spent on a new engine. I have heard through other sites that they will most likley not fight it and will settle out of court. Chuck Catanase site mentioned in previous notes above has some links/details in how to file suit and what to do.
Either way I will never buy another FORD product or subsidiary ( HERTZ, VOLV0, MAZDA, etc)again!
Who knows, you might be surprised! The new Windstar might be a great vehicle. Don't count it out yet.
use. Great looking wagon inside and out, loaded and nice to drive. I hadn't seen the various msg
boards although I did check reliability on some
major sites and it looked okay. I take a train to
work and will put only a few thousand miles a year
on the car. What could go wrong ? My problems started six weeks later and continue today.
1- brake warning light comes on.
2- radiator starts leaking the day before
service appointment for brakes.
3- Feb'99 when in for a recall the head gaskets
are also replaced under the program. So we
didn't have them blow while driving.
4- 3 months later the trans starts having problems
going into 1st. Aluminum forward piston
replaced with steel piston.
5- still smell coolant occasionally during the
summer but don't see any leaks and coolant
level stays constant.
6- rear tires wear badly on the inside edge and
there's no adjustment for it. Dealer can do
something but it might not help and would cost
$300. I replace all 4 tires instead.
7- Fall '99 power steering pump starts making a
noticeable noise.
8- coolant starts leaking from the area of the
water pump. Could be just a hose but I can't
even see where it's leaking from and knowing
this car it's probably the pump.
9- flange on the ignition switch breaks requiring
the switch to be replaced (so I can sell it!).
10-the trans is starting to act-up again going
into 1st. Not too bad yet. Maybe I was taken on
the repair (a trans shop).
11-tried the AC a few weeks ago and the compressor
doesn't kick on. Fuse is ok.
The gas mileage is 14/gal except during the winter
when it's 10/gal - seldom goes on the highway.
We've owned this wagon for 20 months, paid a good
price for it ($8000+tax) and put 8000 miles on it.
It now has 54k miles. The service people at the
local dealer have been very nice but then I haven't pressed them for anything.
The problem is it's a Ford product and a lemon.
I can deal with paying for bolt-on items that need replacing (excepting the radiator and ignition switch) and maintenance items. But it
has the lousy 3.8L engine and a bad trans which are big ticket items. It's enough to pay for the maintenance stuff. Ford finally acknowledged
the head gasket problem by extending the warranty
to 7yrs/100k miles. Unfortunately that doesn't
make the car any more reliable. Every time something gets fixed something completely unrelated goes wrong. It is by far the worst car
mechanically that I have owned in the last 30 years. The only reason we haven't gotten stuck on
the road is we don't take it anywhere.
My cost:
$8000 car
480 tax
400 radiator
100 belt (maint)
230 brakes (maint-expensive to cut the rotors
but can't complain,brakes are great)
000 head gaskets - free
1050 trans forward piston + some other stuff
100 ignition switch - service mngr installed for
free since we got it keyed at a locksmith
300 tires (maint)
---------
$10660
It will need a battery and exhaust system soon,
the AC compressor replaced, the coolant leak
checked out and fixed, back brakes, a power steering pump and who knows if the trans will go
again. I'll take a hit on the trade-in because
I'm not going to get all of this work done.
So we paid $10660 for 20 months of use to go 8000
miles. I still really like the wagon and almost
hate to get rid of it but the AC was the final
straw. I'm basically disappointed that I made
such a bad decision buying the wagon and more so
that Ford builds these lemons. I look at the wiring on the engine and it looks like an amateur designed it compared to the Buick I own.
Like other people here I will NEVER EVER buy another Ford product.
The person who advised complete flush of transmission and removal of the pan for cleaning is right - did this regularly with my '93 Tarus (traded w/135k) and now the Windstar. I notice the difference right after the work is done. My mechanic advised since Ford has had a history of tranny problems on front-wheel cars/vans.
I wouldn't place too much trust on reliability and quality from driving a rental. People TRASH rentals, and drive the "heck" out of them.
I think driving a car for a week gives the person a better idea of comfort and driving tendencies the car has, but reliability and quality are very dependant on the driver. A car that someone redlines constantly and drives very hard will have more problems that the same car if it had been driven by someone who doesn't drive it really hard.
1) Have a new engine put in at no cost to me
2) Take a blue book price + $3000 towards the
purchase of a new vehicle, so in total $9725
I was also told that the car was off the road and could not be driven nice of them to do that to me!
I decided to check out vehicles and within a day found one at the same dealership that would work. I asked the sales guy to put together an estimate based on the 2.9% financing that was available.
Very soon he arrived back with the sales manager who wanted to describe "the deal".
He said that I could put the $3000 towards a new vehicle, but that the blue book amount would be mailed in a few weeks, and thus could not be used against the purchase of the new vehicle. They didn't offer any other alternatives, other than to suggest that once I got the money from Ford I could put against the principle, which would mean that the life of the loan would be shorter, but the car payment would be higher.
The other thing that I noticed having read some of the responses in this forum was that Some individuals were offered $4,000 not the $3,000 that was offered to me.
I was ready to buy a new vehicle at that time. They seem to have gone out of their to mislead and deter me from taking that path.
This whole situation has been a fiasco, and I doubt that I will do business at that dealership in the future. The one worry that I have now is that in the course of putting in a new engine, they mess up something else, like the transmission
There has been alot of confusion about this deal. I was the first to use this at my dealer, so we waited an extra couple of days to make sure every i was dotted and every t was crossed. My dealer was very helpful. It's a small-town family owned Ford dealer. Good luck to you all on whatever you decide to do.
Anyway. Took it to a decent dealer who determined it was the HG again. The service person brought up the 4K incentive & the 100K extended warranty (but I already knew about it thanks to this site).
So off we went today & test drove a new Taurus. Not bad.
But now the salesperson says that, because the van is technically still under warranty, our only option may be to have it fixed. Possibly no 4K incentive option for us but he was "checking into it" for us.
Any thoughts? It was my understanding that the offer was the CHOICE of having the HG repaired OR taking the $4,000 incentive towards a new car.
I really want out of this clunker but now it seems we may be left with only the choice of having the HG fixed AGAIN.
Oh well. New Taurus was nice enough.
I think the comments about the $4K being available only to those who paid for the head gasket repair out of their own pocket are correct, based on what several dealers have told me.
But each dealer puts their own spin on this. One told me that it takes 7 - 10 days to process the request, so if you come to terms with a dealer on a new car, you still have to wait 7 - 10 days before you can close the deal. That's why I wasn't able to make a deal in time to get the $1500 rebate that closed on March 31. But no problem - Chrysler has announced $1750 rebates for the second quarter, so it's only a matter of days before Ford follows suit.
But another dealer told me they could do it in 48hrs, and yet another said they could do it on the spot. I finally was able to talk to a live body at the Ford 'customer service' line and he confirmed the first dealer's estimate of 7 - 10 days. Which now makes me believe the other two were lying to me just to get me to come in.
My advice (and I'm not through this process yet, so it may change) is don't turn over your paper work (the letter from Ford and your repair receipt) until you've got the sale price of the new vehicle and the trade-in for your old one in writing. The story about the weasel of a dealer that said the person couldn't go to another dealer because he (the dealer) had already 'applied' for the certificate was amazing.
As for the trade-in's that people are being offered, it sounds as though they're on the low side. So far I've been offered 4.5 and 4.7, and I don't have the kind of problems other's have been citing. If that's all I can get for the '95 I'm not going to trade it. I'll just take my refund for the repair costs and drive it till it drops dead, which from the sound of things might not be all that long.
But at least then I'll be free to get something else.
Looking into new vehicles, I could get an SE that, with the 0.9 deal, sets me back about 315 per mo. taking into account the credits from the old car. I hate to take on new expenses, but I don't see much downside. If I keep the 95 and put the $300 or so into savings toward a replacement vehicle down the road, this means that after one year I have about $4k+interest, while the 95 continues to depreciate; seem like break even to me, unless the car lasts more than two years WITH NO MAJOR EXPENSES (a BIG "if").
On the other hand, if I get a 2000, I could keep it for a couple of years, while under warranty, then trade in for a different make altogether and hopefully the 2000 will maintain value enough so that the total cost of ownership for the time I have it is tolerable.
Am I thinking the right way about this?
Any comments welcome.
If they had offered a more reasonable deal for my 95 WS, I would have bought a Taurus last week. I had one picked out, we were in negotiations and then, zip for 95 WS leaving me in an "untenable pecuniary situation" (ie, couldn't afford it).
My emotions and particular struggles aside, it does appear that Ford is trying to right things with the HG problem. Unfortunately, there are many ways for the dealers to work this situation. Some of the experiences I'm reading about are quite positive (see also Vans/Windstar Problems conference) so I suppose I need to find the right dealer.
To Windstuffed: haven't had the quirky electrical problems you've experienced, though for some time little electrical things have gone awry: dome light stays on for two hours sometimes, tape player needs repair, cigarette lighter/power socket is erratic. Anyway, after HG has been repaired all seems to working well (even transmission). If we have "one of the good ones" it may make more sense to keep it since the bad reputation of the 95 WS seems to be spreading and it has lost alot of trade-in value.
This week I will be trying to hammer out the $4K incentive mess and will post progress.
We see the $4K incentive as a way to maintain nearly the same monthly payment but trade an 82K mile car with suspect pedigree for a brand new vehicle under warranty (a little more peace-of-mind). Now, if I could only get more trade-in from the dealer....