Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Ford 3.8 head gasket, AXOD transmission failures Windstar Taurus Sable - Ford secret warranty?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I placed another call to my dealership this morning and was told that they have a call in to their 'recall rep' at Ford... So no clue yet as to how 'difficult' this may be for me. But, it was certainly reassuring to read the message from Bdemas about having a similar situation (extended warranty situation) :-)
Re: my calls to the Ford 800#. Two separate reps have now told me the same thing, the second one after putting me on hold for a lengthy time. The first one really seemed to know his stuff, we'll see! Both knew I only paid the $50 which was the deductible on the extended warranty...
I'll keep you informed :-) Thanks for the advice and encouragement!
Sharon
That's the first time I've heard of having to pay $500 to finance, though I'm no expert. Check with other dealers to see if that's common. You can also ask the dealers who frequent Edmunds Town Hall (see Smart Shopper conference, Ask a Dealer thread.
Last time I checked, there was a $1K to $1.5 K rebate PLUS 0.9% financing on new Windstars. Check on the Edmunds rebate and incentive pages to see what's currently in effect. Also call around to other dealers and ask about customer incentives.
If you are truly getting $8000 offer for your WS, that doesn't sound too bad. How many miles and what level? (e.g, top of the line loaded with options, or a lowly GL like mine was ).
So, the deal they are offering is 3% over invoice, minus $1,500 rebate, minus $4,000 special Windstar incentive, and about $6,500 for my trade- comes to $17,500.
Dealers are famous for taking rebates and making it look like it is their discount, when it should be over and above their discount, so be careful
The same goes for value of your trade-in. Do you own anything on your current WS? If not, the trade-in they offer is further money in your pocket. Look at lweiss's example.
Let us know how it goes.
Usually, the interest rate does get higher for a longer loan period. However, I seem to remember that for the WS, they were offering 0.9% up to 60 months. I know they were for the Mercury Villager. After checking with several dealers, you should know pretty quickly whether Mulinex is giving you bum info.
I'm not sure what to think on your trade-in offer. Even with lots of options and the after-market CD player, $8K may be OK. You have pretty low mileage. If you check Edmunds or KBB pages for used car value, you will probably get slightly inflated values. I found that with my 95 WS. As one wholesaler put it, even the general public is becoming aware of the problems with the 95 WS.
Even if your particular WS is running fine (like mine) the value suffers because of the general problems reported for that year of WS. Several recent books on used car advice list the 95 WS as a car to avoid. It's like owning a nice house in a bad neighborhood: no matter how nice the house, the general location will dictate most of the value. You have a nice car in a bad car "neighborhood".
In fact, it was my understanding that Ford would "buy the van back", PLUS, give you a $3 - $4,000 incentive, PLUS give you any rebates that were offered PLUS give you any special financing that was available. 21 grand is NOT a smokin' deal by any stretch of the imagination.
A Ford sales rep that I know once told me that most of the time Ford incentives offer a rebate OR special financing. Sometimes, but rarely, a lower rebate with special financing. My parents certainly were lucky last July when the transmission blew on their early-1990s Taurus and they needed a new Taurus, and Ford was offering both a $1500 rebate and the financing promotion to be used together :-)
By the way, I'm *still* waiting to hear back from the dealer regarding my 'eligibility' for the $4K coupon that I wrote about earlier....
Sharon
Anyway.....
What you all are saying is very interesting...
Here's my 2 cents worth:
1. Get the dealership to PUT IT IN WRITING!!!
2. DON'T sign ANYTHING until you are clear on where they got their numbers. Check Edmunds/KBB/Carprices.com...don't forget to back out the dealer holdback. They get that no matter what price you agree upon.
3. That $500 for financing thru Ford is B.S. (The financing is where they make their money)
4. They work for you....not the other way around.
If they're trying to screw you....LEAVE!!
5. The 0.9%-2.9% financing ended on 5/1/00. (I'm really hating that, too. It would have saved me about $50/mo on my new note)
www.ford.com and www.fordvehicles.com have a grid that maps out the options for $1k/$1.5k rebate and financing. These rates run 5/2/00-7/5/00. (These rates are for the WS only)
My cousin is a Ford sales rep in MS and he verified what my dealer in GA plus the website indicated.
6. Check the VIN for the manufacture date....NEVER buy an auto w/a manufacture day of Monday or Friday.....8:10 times they're LEMONS. Don't trust your dealer to do this for you. Get the VIN from the one you're looking at, and call the service department of another dealership. It takes maybe 2 mins.
7. I go to get mine, hopefully, tomorrow. Yes, w/$11k of "free" money...I'm getting all the bells & whistles.
Good luck out there.
CB
When you are stating "window" price, is that the printed MSRP? You shouldn't be paying MSRP for a Windstar these days.
I've NEVER seen a rebate included in the sticker MSRP. They would have to constantly change the sticker price with every change in the rebate programs. If the "window" price is indeed the sticker MSRP, then the dealer is yanking your chain.
Check posts 328 and 329 above. These people have the latest on rebates/finance incentives. Sometimes the Edmunds rebate/incentives are slightly out of date just before the middle of the month. One of the monitors for Edmunds said they update them around the middle of the month, so keep checking over the next week.
I still don't get the "$500" charge to finance. I agree with cbinga1 (post 329).
To get an idea of how close you are to invoice: take the Edmund's dealer invoice: about 27,900; add about $650 for destination: that comes to about $28,550. Subtract out your 8200 trade-in money: $20,350. Add tax (about 1000 to 1500 depending on your state tax rate): about 22,000. Subtract rebate (assume 1000): about 21,000. In Indiana, title is handled by the customer, so I don't know what you have to include in Florida. Based on this it looks like you have a reasonably good deal. The weird thing is the 500 "penalty" for financing.
Let me know if this is starting to make sense.
So now I'm wondering what to do with that $4K coupon! Keep the Windstar and buy a truck that husband could use? Trade in the Windstar and buy another one? Ford says if the head gaskets go again before end of 7-year period or 100K miles, they'll be covered. Dealer (service tech actually) told me that's unlikely to happen since they installed the newly-designed head gaskets when they did the repair in January.
Opinions? Also found out that people can apply under this special incentive program (formally known as 00M09) for a two-year period... So I guess there's no real hurry to hear back from my dealer :-)
Sharon
I knew our Windstar had more problems coming down the road (so to speak) so we were happy to trade it in. We briefly thought about another WS; nice to have the room. But, they are expensive. You might want to check the new car guides at the bookstore. Unfortunately, the 2000 WS is getting a high complaint count. I do like how they are laid out, the ride, etc. Just worry about the reliability.
We opted for a Taurus SE. Certainly enough room, better gas mileage, less expensive, and hopefully a better reliability record. I've been encouraged by the Taurus posters on the Sedan conference; mostly good reviews. Even Edmunds rated the Taurus 3rd place of 9 sedans (beat out only by Passat and Accord, both of which cost nearly 5 grand more).
A truck sounds good. Seems I read that Ford has done much better with trucks (some think to the exclusion of quality control on their cars!).
I am not a mechanic -- color, bells and whistles are the important things to me. I was very frustrated by the whole deal. Not one dealer (sales or service) could give me a straight answer on this program and now I feel like I got the shaft. I even attempted to get it (the program) in writing. I kept asking for "the certificate" that everyone kept telling me I needed. I really would have liked the new van I chose.
engine.
But, now... we're in the market for a slighty
used 1999 Windstar...
Does anyone have any experience with this model year? Can I expect the same HG and transmission problems?
Has Ford addressed their problems?
Thanks
I haven't read many good reviews about the 2000 Windstar either, which is rather disappointing since I really do like the vehicle! Need the leg room of the van with older kids, otherwise definitely would consider the Taurus (or Cougar!!).
So maybe we'll be keeping the '95 Windstar and considering a truck. But that's alot of money for a vehicle that doesn't seat a family tho :-)
Still haven't heard from the dealership....
Sharon
Have you looked at the Mercury Villager? Not as big as the Windstar, but probably better reliability. It qualifies under the $3 or $4K incentives, and last month they were offering a whopping $2500 rebate or 0.9% financing up to 60 months. I did a short test drive of one and I wasn't exactly bowled over, but it is a van alternative to the WS that fits with the incentive. If the $2500 is still available, that would be a big down payment.
I would have looked into the Villager more deeply, but we were anxious to let go of the WS before an additional major problem erupted and the Ford dealer had confirmed my eligibility for the $4K but was waiting, waiting for the actual certificate. So, to take the certificate elsewhere would have meant nearly a month more delay. As it turns out, I just signed the $4K certificate at the Ford dealer yesterday 3 weeks after buying the Taurus.
The certificate process is a slow one.
I'm a little sad that, after 7 Fords and a good relationship with Regan Ford in Haverhill,Ma., I was forced to go elsewhere. THREE blown head gaskets covered under warranty (although 2nd was in Canada and involved extra expenses)and over the lack of a lousy $50 deductible, I did not qualify for either of the Customer "Focus" programs. I was ready to buy an SEL but I actually got a better trade at Honda against a much lower MSRP than an SE !!.
I'll be ready to replace my Taurus in appx. 1.5 years...what do you think I should do then????
Gee, I wonder if anyone of significance at Ford sees these posts ?!!
It would be well worth your time to read through all the posts in this forum, or at least go back and read the last 100 to 150 or so. You can use the "jump to" box that appears right under the topic name to navigate through the posts.
Good luck!
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Our 1994 Thunderbird is equipped with a 3.8L V6, and an Auto. Overdrive transmission. December 1998 (around 87000 miles), I replaced the head gaskets. She ran better than before. Now, it's sitting in our driveway, as we do not have $1500 to replace the SECOND transmission (95,000 on the odometer). And Ford now sends us this letter:
(Pulled from second paragraph) "Fords Motor Company is providing additional warranty coverage under Service Program Number 00M10, to owners of 1994 and 1995 model year Mustang, Thunderbird, and Thunderbird Super Coupe vehicles equipped with a 3.8L engine.
The additional warranty covers potential engine head gasket failures which may be experienced by some owners of these vehicles, and will be in effect for 7 years, or 100,000 miles, from the from the vehicle's original warranty start date, whichever comes first."
It goes on to say that Ford will refund our repair costs, or we can buy another Ford (big fat chance of THAT!). I submit the warranty information for anyone who may have not received this letter (Ours was sent to my girlfriend's ex-husband), as I won't get much out of it (can't find our repair receipts).
Has anyone else had transmission problems like this with a Thunderbird? I checked with Ford, but since it wasn't a dealer who did the repairs the first time (at 38,000 miles), they offer no help. Any suggestions?
Hope this info. helps someone out in their decision making--If anyone lives near metro DC, I bought my van from King Lincoln Merc. in Gaithersburg MD and I could not have been happier with how they worked for us (giving us the $4K off even though we hadn't been officially "approved" yet from Ford, etc.)
Good luck!
Indytab, I would consider a Villager... but we have become very spoiled with a great Ford service dept. just 2 miles away, and I trust them immensely! They aren't too familiar with that $4K coupon, tho, and today I placed a call to them again and they still haven't heard from their recall rep. It's been a week now but since I 100% believe that I'm eligible I'm not as 'nervous' about not hearing from them...
I asked them to ask the rep when the absolute deadline is to apply for this coupon. The '2 years to apply' answer that I got from Ford's 800# wasn't specific enough, although to be fair to their customer service I didn't ask for the final date yet. I'd just be curious to see which, if either, offer an actual date!
I'll post when I have more info :-)
Sharon
I was talking with my service dept. contact at the dealership, and he believes that it was unusual to have to have two transmissions put in. Our Windstar now only has less than 66,000 miles on it...the extended warranty expires next month...so I'm kind of apprehensive about keeping it, yet don't really want to apply the $4K coupon towards the 2000 Windstar because of the not-so-good reviews (husband would be just as happy to finally get a new truck, ha!)
My service dept. contact also said that the head gasket I had put on in January was of a 'new design', for what it's worth :-)
Sharon
If you are set on a 2000 Windstar, my suggestion would be to take your 95 into the service department and tell them about the coolant smell in the vents (is the coolant resevoir low - another sign of HG problems). Hope against hope that it's a head gasket problem, and tell them that you would rather have the $4,000 incentive. If they say the HG is okay, then drive it 'til it blows because you'll get about the same amount on trade with or without a blown headgasket. Might as well qualify yourself for the extra $4,000.
On Friday 5/19 My 95 WS will be in the shop waiting on new engine for 3 weeks. Received a call on Tuesday 5/16 Customer Service Manager called and said she would put me in rental car until I got my WS back.
I was HAPPPY it's about time...
They ended up putting me in "2000" WS. Nice car but I have my doubts. Kinda Funny uh! that they would pick that car hint..hint
I thought about trading in car but am upside down in my WS so it would not be to my benefit to get rid of WS right now. I hope that my Transmission does not go. My WS has 85,000 miles so it's probably about time...who knows.
I'm not sure if I have made the correct choice but when I think of paying a new car payment... I think I have made the correct choice
So I have now joined the crusade !
I have contacted Ford and the Government website and will do whatever it takes to get satisfaction.
Good Luck and keep us all posted.
I find it hard to believe that all of you with the same problems I had are willing to roll the dice with Ford again, especially after hearing how we were all screwed by Ford. I have some great dot com stocks you all might be interested in. Good luck and good bye to you all.
I'm trying my luck for getting reimbursed the $1,970 service bill I had to pay for head gaskets in my 93 t-bird. This will by my third attempt, so maybe 3 times is a charm.
Therefore, I'll pose this question to this discussion forum: has *anyone* heard specifics about how long we have to apply for the $4K? Does it say in the letter that went home (that we threw out because initially our dealer told us we weren't eligible?!?!?)?
Thanks, have a great day!
Sharon in Cleveland
I have heard (but am not sure) that you have up to 2 years to request the certificate, but once you get it you have about 6 months to use it.
My recollection of the timing on certificate application and use is consistent with your information.
Generally, I think it's best not to let the dealership know you have the $4K certificate until the deal is finally struck. Otherwise, I think the dealer will inflate the cost of the new car, thinking the customer won't mind paying more since the customer has "free" money. That's the advantage of taking the certificate to another dealer. Or, the original dealer will re-think their offer if they know you'll take the certificate elsewhere, as in my case.
It would probably not be easy to hide the fact that you have a $4K certificate if you're trading in a 95 WS like we did. Anyway, we came out ahead on the deal, I think, and we are enjoying a 2000 Taurus.
The transmission operates normally except for this one problem, the fluid level, color, and odor are good:
When I come to a complete stop then go to press the gas, the car acts as if it were in neutral for up to several seconds then kicks into gear, jumping forward (this feels like being rear ended). It only happens whith the gearshift in overdrive. With the gearshift in drive the transmission operates normally.
When we first noticed the problem, it only occured after the engine and transaxle warmed up to normal operating temperature. It happens all the time now.
I've taken it to an ex-Ford mechanic who said that the problem is common and that it is the transaxle control module that needs reprogrammed.
When I took it to a dealer to get that done, they said that the transaxle needs rebuilt or replaced. The first guy says they're full of it.
Has anyone ran into this?
As for my previous posting(#360)... I called Ford. I was told that if an individual has spent any amount of money to repair a head gasket prior to the release of their Mar 2000 ltr (program 00M09)then they were entitled to the $4K, that's right $4K, towards the purchase of a new Ford/Lincholn/Mercury product. The required paperwork to receive this certificate has to be filed by a dealer. I had the first headgasket replaced for free though it did cost me $100.00 for a rental car (provided by the dealer) and the ingnition module. Whether that qualifies for the certificate or not I don't know? I suppose the good news is that this 2nd head gasket will be replaced for free also. The mechanic stated that the first head gasket may not have been the quality upgraded version (a metal gasket vs paper). I 'll know in a couple of days. So what about these mercury villagers with the nissan motors and transmission? It sounds like the way to go if you want to keep a ford product (and use the $4k certificate). Any comments from Villager owners?
What & who can I contact to get some satisfaction?? I do have the documentation of my earlier complaints.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crewguy, it's my understanding that if you paid dollars towards the cost of the head gasket repair, then you are entitled to either a refund of those dollars or the $4K coupon. I hate to think that a dealership would have done anything underhanded...and would definitely 'call them' on it!! Obviously not just the repair receipt but also other docs (cancelled check, credit card statement) would prove that you indeed paid towards that repair :-)
Sharon
I am the owner of a 95 Ford Windstar LX that was a Christmas season headache. It is primarily my wires car and she was driving it when the engine overheated. She was in a "dead cell phone zone" and had to drive to a place to get a signal. Due to this extra driving the heads cracked and we had the repair made. Then we got the letter from Ford stating that the head gasket was defective and said that if repairs were made then the cost of those repairs would be reimbursed. Well, I submitted my receipt for the cost of the repairs to my Ford dealer a couple of months ago and haven't heard a thing. My question is this. Since my repair was for a cracked head (most likely caused by a failure in the head gasket)will Ford still cover the bill or are only repairs to repace a head gasket covered? Has anyone else got a check for a similar repair?
Thanks
Ron Peterson
Chelmsford, MA
Anyway, several past posts have been from WS owners who had engines replaced due to HG failures. If a new engine was not available within two weeks, they were offered about $6500 for the WS (a sort of "buyback") and $3K toward a new Ford.
How much was your repair? Straight HG repairs average about $1k. Two months is much too long to wait for reimbursement. I would get on the phone quickly with the dealer and call Ford's customer assistance number and let them know the dealer has had your receipt for two months.
Received a call from FORD they want to settle out of court for the full amount of the claim! It's too bad that I had to resort to filing a claim. At least it was very simple and inexpensive to file. (For info on filing look at chuck catanase "Windstar" site.) FORD should had done the right thing and reimbursed me for the cost of my engine to start of with. They lost a customer for life and still had to pay for repairs. Persistance works.
NO MORE FORDS FOR ME.
The response to me was a PHOTOCOPIED letter (unless Ford has decided to change their logo from Blue to Black), and an UNSIGNED letter from Thomas J. Fetters, Director, Customer Assistance Center. Also, the salutation was "Dear M&M Young". Kind of leads me to believe that the "case by case" handling needs a bit of work.
So, Monday morning on my way to work, I'll be stopping by the local courthouse to file my small claims case against Ford. Perhaps at the very least, Mr. Fetters will take the time to actually SIGN any letters to me in the future. I will post the results here.
Quality is job ______ (fill in the blank).
WE WERE NEVER TOLD OF A HEAD GASKET RECALL, NOR WERE WE AWARE OF ALL THE PROBLEMS THESE VEHICLES WERE HAVING. WE SHOULD HAVE DONE OUR HOMEWORK.
IN DECEMBER OF 99 WE TOOK A TRIP TO IDAHO FROM CALIFORNIA. ABOUT A 10 HOUR DRIVE. ABOUT 5 HOURS INTO OUR DRIVE THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON AND OUR VAN WAS SURGING. IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE , WE DECIDED TO JUST KEEP DRIVING UNTIL WE GOT TO A STATION. FINALLY IN IDAHO WE TOOK THE VAN TO A FORD DEALER AND WE WERE TOLD THE OXYGEN SENSORS WERE OUT. WE REPLACED THEM WITH $300 DOLLARS OF OUR VACATION MONEY, AND WERE ON OUR WAY. THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT WAS OFF AND WE THOUGHT WE WERE COOL.
JUST TWO DAYS AGO WE WERE ON OUR WAY OUT FOR A COMPANY PICNIC AND WHEN MY HUSBAND STARTED THE VAN IT MADE A VERY WIERD NOISE AND WHITE SMOKE AND WATER BEGAN TO POUR FROM THE EXHAUST PIPE. HE FIGURED HEAD GASKET AND SHUT THE CAR OFF. WE HAD TO BORROW A FRIENDS 4-RUNNER TO GET TO WHERE WE WERE GOING.
YESTERDAY WE BEGAN CALLING A ROUND AND FOUND OUT ABOUT THE RECALL, THE MILEAGE LIMIT OF 100,000 ( WE'RE AT 110,000 GO FIGURE ) AND NOBODY WANTS TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FOR US. WE WERE NEVER NOTIFIED OF ANY RECALLS AND IF THE FORD DEALER THAT "FIXED" THE OXYGEN SENSORS WOULD HAVE CLUED US IN ON THE PROBLEMS RELATED TO THE SENSORS AND THE HEAD GASKETS AND THE #4 PLUG, WE COULD HAVE HAD THIS DONE UNDER WARRANTY AND BEEN DONE WITH IT.
WE CURRENTLY STILL OWE ON THE VAN. ABOUT 10,000 AT THAT. WE HAD A DEALER OFFER US 2500 FOR TRADE IN. KISS MY ____ !!!!!! I DO DAYCARE OUT OF MY HOME, AND HAVE TWO KIDS AND NOW AM WITHOUT A VEHICLE FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG. CAN SOMEONE GIVE US SOME ADVICE ON GETTING THE REPAIRS PAID FOR AND BEING DONE WITH THIS MESS.