A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

kyfdx · October 2016

I think it helps if you pick a make that typically has a lot of problems.

The VW specialists must make a killing!

thecardoc3 · October 2016

It seems strange to read "Chubby" these days. I remember when he would be coming into the area and his marketers were trying to sell seats to his classes and they didn't understand why I wouldn't attend his training seminars. It made no sense for me to attend because the programs he was pushing were "You can't make money fixing broken cars, sell services" variety. The "guru's" like Chubby who pushed those trains of thought were telling shop owners that top techs were too expensive and the work we did was too risky/difficult to be profitable. On one hand they did have a point from a business owners perspective, however that kind of thinking could only lead us to where we are today and now you have This article from him.

stever · October 2016

"That math makes it so that we need a $130 labor rate right now."

Hm, now where have I seen that recently? Guess "Chubby" wants to make crooks out of all of you.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Yea that's what consumers are going to be thinking because of what they have been fed for as long as I can recall.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Saw this posted to the iATN, http://www.clickorlando.com/news/autopsies-mother-toddler-found-on-florida-turnpike-killed-after-hydrogen-sulfide-inhalation

I've lost sales because I wouldn't install a cheaper battery and while at times it bothered me I would not compromise my standards or the vehicle's as built requirements. Batteries that are mounted inside a car must be vented to the exterior. I have dealt with nonsense from outsiders who said all kinds of things when I wouldn't install a (cheaper) battery that did not have proper venting connections. That mother and daughter died from something that never should have happened.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

Somebody at Battery World is going to have a very bad day.

roadburner · October 2016

Sad; it reminds me of the joker who yanked the battery out of my friend's E83 X3 and broke off the fitting on the vent tube. Did he try to reconnect it? Are you kidding?

andres3 · October 2016

I've recently had work done adding a new AC system to my house done by an unlicensed guy that is a perfect advertisement for why not to use an unlicensed bum to do work.

Several of the things a real HVAC tech pointed out for correction on his report read "could potentially cause death." Doing things wrong can hurt or kill people. I wonder if the bums doing incompetent work on houses or cars ever think about that? Keep them awake at night?

stever · October 2016

They're judgment proof anyway; some criminal action could get their attention though. But why did you hire the bum in the first place?

andres3 · October 2016

stever said:
They're judgment proof anyway; some criminal action could get their attention though. But why did you hire the bum in the first place?

Turns out the guy has an application "pending" for a license to operate his 1-man HVAC business. If he finally manages to get licensed (doubtful), I wonder if I have any retroactive recourse?

He was recommended by my real estate agent. I'm sure it was a 3rd hand referral by the time it got to me. I'm going to tell him no more recommendation/referrals that are hearsay.

His main problem is he's a drug addict. A non-functioning one unfortunately, the addiction is impacting his work obviously. Sloppy and incompetent.

Goodman shouldn't be selling units to him; he was unlicensed... I'm going to hit up the manufacturer to make this right next. Their product seemingly stinks! I'm sure it'll be blamed on the installation, but again, they sold the unit to him; not me! This guy has probably cost me at least $400 in wasted AC electricity usage this Summer.

stever · October 2016

Probably gave the realtor a "deal" in exchange for some referrals.

stever · October 2016

"The industry is something that we need to get more young men and women involved in, because it's not the same occupation that I grew up in, where you were known as a mechanic or a grease monkey. Now, you're just sitting in a car's seat with a laptop figuring out what's wrong with these cars."

A Mechanic Faces the Age of the Self-Driving Car

PF_Flyer · October 2016

You still need to know which end of a wrench to hold, right?

thecardoc3 · October 2016

PF_Flyer said:
You still need to know which end of a wrench to hold, right?

Not if you buy better tools that let you use either end..

I know Joe. Its nice seeing people who really do know what working on cars today is really like being the ones that are getting to comment on it.

stever · October 2016

PF_Flyer said:
You still need to know which end of a wrench to hold, right?

Isn't that what the tat is for?

xwesx · October 2016

A good article, for sure. This quote is spot on:

"My business coach told me that I needed to decide if I wanted to work on the business or in the business. So I started hiring better staff, and I walked away from working on cars to start managing processes, procedures, and marketing. Today, I very seldom ever actually go out and work on a car. It'd have to be something that my staff is having difficulties with and seeking my guidance. My passion is fixing cars, but I had to learn to run a profitable business and do it the correct way."

guitarzan · October 2016

andres3 said:
His main problem is he's a drug addict. A non-functioning one unfortunately, the addiction is impacting his work obviously. Sloppy and incompetent.

One of our regional utility companies is outright starving for new workers. The biggest problem? Few are passing the drug test. This problem is widespread unfortunately.

This man might have a one man business because no one in their right mind would bring him onboard. If he skates by and gets certified, he is going to be a human wrecking ball and leave a lifetime of destruction behind him. As long as these losers show up and "make an attempt" to fix the complaints, it becomes more difficult to sue and get any money back. That is how some of these contractors survive, lest you ask the ubiquitous question, "How on earth do these people stay in business?"

Given his role, hopefully, like you pointed out, he does not kill anyone.

kyfdx · October 2016

xwesx said:
A good article, for sure. This quote is spot on:

"My business coach told me that I needed to decide if I wanted to work on the business or in the business. So I started hiring better staff, and I walked away from working on cars to start managing processes, procedures, and marketing. Today, I very seldom ever actually go out and work on a car. It'd have to be something that my staff is having difficulties with and seeking my guidance. My passion is fixing cars, but I had to learn to run a profitable business and do it the correct way."

You could apply this to any business, not just the car business.

Having a skill or a passion for something doesn't automatically make you good at business. Some people make better employees.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

What you are talking about here with that HVAC guy parallels one of the biggest problems that we have been struggling with in the auto repair trade. At this point you have a situation where the demands of the work outclassed his skill level and it was exposed. But what happens when he manages to be successful with less demanding work and he does it at a cost that a properly educated and equipped provider simply cannot? Why he is a hero of course and the real expert is shamed for not meeting his price.

How much do you think the advancing pace of technology has affected the HVAC guys cost of doing business in the last five years? Ten years?? Twenty???

Compare that to what a shop/technician like myself who has done everything that I could manage to over that same time frame. All while the pressure for the consumer to get to save money which means somehow I'm supposed to do that and have the lowest possible price as compared to someone who wasn't investing anything to keep up with technology. If you considered yourself knowledgeable in regards to automobile service and repair and you didn't know what it was really costing someone like myself to try and do what we have been doing for our customers.........Now maybe you can see why I was motivated to start pushing back against some of the archaic perspectives that were on constant display in these forums.

stever · October 2016

thecardoc3 said:
How much do you think the advancing pace of technology has affected the HVAC guys cost of doing business in the last five years? Ten years?? Twenty???

I know a guy who just had his gas valve replaced on his 20 year old furnace. The old "part" was four separate brass components screwed to each other. The new gizmo is a little block that replaces those four functions. The part probably costs less overall and the labor is less.

I bet that's happening with every industry

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

I have no problem with a man recognizing his level of competency and sticking to that level. A framing carpenter isn't a finish carpenter and he knows it. As long as he sticks to what he knows and does that very well--what's the problem? It's when they get in over their heads that creates the problem.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

You just described the Peter Principle How does someone know their limits if they never try and grow?

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

Well that's the point. They don't try to grow. They are content where they are and don't aspire to anything higher. If the technology they are working with DEMANDS that they learn more, then they either jump in to higher learning, or they just avoid that type of technology.

Michaell · October 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
Well that's the point. They don't try to grow. They are content where they are and don't aspire to anything higher. If the technology they are working with DEMANDS that they learn more, then they either jump in to higher learning, or they just avoid that type of technology.

I'll agree with that. When I graduated college in the 80's and started working in the computer industry, all the coding was with procedural languages. I learned one, and it kept me employed for almost 20 years - support, consulting and education related job functions.

Then, the technology shifted to "object oriented programming" - and I couldn't keep up. Fortunately, I was blessed with great managers who understood my situation and worked with me to change my career direction. I moved into more of a 'business' role doing data analysis and planning. I've been doing that for the last 10 years, and am very happy with the work I'm doing.

andres3 · October 2016

thecardoc3 said:
What you are talking about here with that HVAC guy parallels one of the biggest problems that we have been struggling with in the auto repair trade. At this point you have a situation where the demands of the work outclassed his skill level and it was exposed. But what happens when he manages to be successful with less demanding work and he does it at a cost that a properly educated and equipped provider simply cannot? Why he is a hero of course and the real expert is shamed for not meeting his price.

How much do you think the advancing pace of technology has affected the HVAC guys cost of doing business in the last five years? Ten years?? Twenty???

Compare that to what a shop/technician like myself who has done everything that I could manage to over that same time frame. All while the pressure for the consumer to get to save money which means somehow I'm supposed to do that and have the lowest possible price as compared to someone who wasn't investing anything to keep up with technology. If you considered yourself knowledgeable in regards to automobile service and repair and you didn't know what it was really costing someone like myself to try and do what we have been doing for our customers.........Now maybe you can see why I was motivated to start pushing back against some of the archaic perspectives that were on constant display in these forums.

Good points.

I do however, feel there is some strong collusion and greediness going on in the Mechanical/HVAC industry, at least in Southern CA. I got 3 quotes from 3 "big guys", typical well known residential HVAC companies that are in bed with the different big box stores like Lowes, Home Depot, Costco. The 3 quotes were all insanely high, and all insanely packed very close together; no doubt greedy collusion going on.

My guy was less than half. That's too big of a gap. The true number that's fair for everyone is probably somewhere in the middle; that range being $6K-14K. I'd have gladly paid a few thousand more to have avoided the problems I'm having. It's easy for me to say I should have just paid the 14,000 now, but in all honesty, I know that is overpaying no matter how professional they are.

The other problem is given the internet age, no one is really allowed to make a lot of money on parts anymore. There are only a few industries left that are so secretive and protected that it is hard to know what the parts cost, and HVAC/AC units might be one of them. Tires fit in that category 25 years ago.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Anyone here want a job? http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/trd/5815111200.html

thecardoc3 · October 2016

What no takers? Here let me highlight some of the better points.

DO CALL ME IF YOU WANT TO BE TREATED THE FOLLOWING WAY:
1.Get paid daily, every day without a boss giving you excuses as to why they can't manage their money properly. With respect. Give respect and you will get respect. Give respect, get respect.
DON'T BRING YOUR KIDS, PROSTITUTE OR DOG TO THE JOB SITE. Unprofessional.

It's unfathomable I have to write an ad like this, but these are the problems some owners face with respect to keeping skilled labor. My teenage daughter can't believe it ether.

2.Get treated well. I typically will treat anyone that does contract work for me with lunch, Monster Energy drinks or Redbulls. I appreciate your hard work on my cars. FYI--I know MOPAR cars also, but would rather use my mind during the day running a business, attorneys or business owners that need problems solved. Most importantly, so I can make a living, feed my family and have enough money left over to pay "the mechanic and enjoy my hobby."

Come on now, don't let such a fantastic life changing opportunity pass you by! TIC

stever · October 2016

I met a guy in Santa Monica last year in some fancy classic car and asked him about it. Turned out he worked full time for some rich guy and ran his private garage and was always driving some classic halfway across the country to some show or other. He seemed pretty happy with his work situation, but he wasn't pulling 10 to 15 hours a week either.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Unbelievable....http://www.torontosun.com/2016/10/12/garage-owner-partly-liable-for-car-thief-injury-top-court

Michaell · October 2016

thecardoc3 said:
Unbelievable....http://www.torontosun.com/2016/10/12/garage-owner-partly-liable-for-car-thief-injury-top-court

What? That the business owner didn't take appropriate measures to secure the vehicles, especially when the police has warned the town about the problem?

Actions have consequences ...

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Michaell said:
What? That the business owner didn't take appropriate measures to secure the vehicles, especially when the police has warned the town about the problem?

Actions have consequences ...

Really? The appeals court upheld the jury’s ruling that Rankin was 37% liable for damages while the drunk young driver was 23% liable, and his mom — who supplied them with beer — was 30% liable. The passenger was 10% liable for joyriding with an impaired, unlicensed and inexperienced driver.

Do you think he is going to collect a dime from the other parties assessed part of the blame? Why isn't the adult (his mom) who provided kids alcohol the one who is the most at fault? For that matter, why wouldn't the kids who stole the car be more responsible for their own actions?

Vehicles not be totally secured isn't a good practice, but what will correcting that do for a consumer who might need after hours drop offs and pick-ups? I'll bet there is more than one consumer who has complained on this very forum about some shop that didn't allow them to pick up their car 24/7.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

Why are you surprised? Seems to me it's a variation of the "attractive nuisance doctrine" applied to the law of torts in the USA.

Michaell · October 2016

thecardoc3 said:

Michaell said:
What? That the business owner didn't take appropriate measures to secure the vehicles, especially when the police has warned the town about the problem?

Actions have consequences ...
Really? The appeals court upheld the jury’s ruling that Rankin was 37% liable for damages while the drunk young driver was 23% liable, and his mom — who supplied them with beer — was 30% liable. The passenger was 10% liable for joyriding with an impaired, unlicensed and inexperienced driver.

Do you think he is going to collect a dime from the other parties assessed part of the blame? Why isn't the adult (his mom) who provided kids alcohol the one who is the most at fault? For that matter, why wouldn't the kids who stole the car be more responsible for their own actions?

Vehicles not be totally secured isn't a good practice, but what will correcting that do for a consumer who might need after hours drop offs and pick-ups? I'll bet there is more than one consumer who has complained on this very forum about some shop that didn't allow them to pick up their car 24/7.

Just want to make sure I understand what you're upset about:

is it:

1. That the repair shop was assessed any liability, or
2. That the percentage of liability was too high, in your opinion

qbrozen · October 2016

I disagree with their being any liability. Where do we now draw the line? What if the same exact thing happened but the kid bought the car from someone before going and getting drunk and crashing it? Is the seller now liable? This case would indicate to me the seller is. Maybe Toyota is then liable, too, no? It is, at the very least, ludicrous that the perpetrator is someone less to blame than the "accomplices."

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

The shop left keys in a car in an unsecured area. Similar to not fencing your swimming pool and a kid wandering in and drowning.

Apparently, from the story at any rate, this shop owner has been extremely careless about this in the past as well.

I'm sure if the car had been broken into and the perp much older, the outcome would have been different.

qbrozen · October 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

The shop left keys in a car in an unsecured area. Similar to not fencing your swimming pool and a kid wandering in and drowning. Apparently, from the story at any rate, this shop owner has been extremely careless about this in the past as well. I'm sure if the car had been broken into and the perp much older, the outcome would have been different.

I disagree with that comparison. A teenager making a decision can't be compared to a toddler having an accident.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Michaell said:

Just want to make sure I understand what you're upset about:

Upset isn't the right word, disgusted would be more accurate.

Michaell said:

1. That the repair shop was assessed any liability, or
2. That the percentage of liability was too high, in your opinion

Clearly the liability is too high and the repercussions of that are going to have to be paid by the consumer. Oh, wait, you probably thought that the cost of this was only going to fall on that shop, right? A business must pass the costs of doing business onto its customers. The expense of this incident is no different, except for the variable of how prepared the shop is to weather this storm. Many insurance companies hide clauses in their contracts to try and wiggle out of responsibility and it may be a surprise for a lot of people to learn but if your keys are in your car and it gets stolen then your insurance company is quite probably off the hook.

So where might this leave the shop in question? Bankruptcy is the most likely solution if their insurance isn't going to cover them. If their insurance does cover this they also have to deal with the likelihood that their insurance will likely drop them and now be forced to change companies which will cause a huge increase in their expenses that once again must be passed on to their customers.

It's true that had the shop secured the cars correctly (and we don't know the exact circumstances here but after hours access for their customers isn't ruled out) they MIGHT not be a part of this story. I subscribe to the perception that most incidents aren't a single event but a series of events that had multiple chances to be thwarted. aka https:// The Swiss Cheese Model The shop was only the last slice of cheese and their hole just happened to line up with a number of very large holes in all of the other slices. For them to get the biggest share of the "blame" is doing nothing more but victimizing the shop more than those teens did.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The shop left keys in a car in an unsecured area. Similar to not fencing your swimming pool and a kid wandering in and drowning.

Apparently, from the story at any rate, this shop owner has been extremely careless about this in the past as well.

I'm sure if the car had been broken into and the perp much older, the outcome would have been different.

I disagree with that comparison. A teenager making a decision can't be compared to a toddler having an accident.

Become a substitute teacher in a middle school for a week and you *might* change your mind.

Besides, this is a Canadian case. We don't know how a U.S. court would rule.

andres3 · October 2016

Michaell said:

thecardoc3 said:
Unbelievable....http://www.torontosun.com/2016/10/12/garage-owner-partly-liable-for-car-thief-injury-top-court
What? That the business owner didn't take appropriate measures to secure the vehicles, especially when the police has warned the town about the problem?

Actions have consequences ...

I'm not seeing it that way. If anyone should be blamed other than the perpetrators of the crime, it should be the Crime enforcers; namely the Police and Prosecutors that do a horrible job at preventing car theft in the first place.

If the Police did their jobs competently and allocated resources responsibly, auto theft would not be a rampant problem. They should be sued by the kids for allowing them to behave irresponsibly without suffering any major consequences. Car theft is taken far too lightly by the justice system in the US.

Of course, I don't see why anyone other than the people that stole the car should be blamed. It is already illegal to steal the car. Yes, enforce the laws we already have!

As to insurance not paying a claim because the keys were used to start the car, I'd say nothing would surprise me when it comes to claims being denied by an insurance company. Sounds like just another bogus excuse to never pay a claim.

Would be interesting to see all the reasons given to deny a claim in the last 10 years by a typical insurance company.

andres3 · October 2016

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The shop left keys in a car in an unsecured area. Similar to not fencing your swimming pool and a kid wandering in and drowning.

Apparently, from the story at any rate, this shop owner has been extremely careless about this in the past as well.

I'm sure if the car had been broken into and the perp much older, the outcome would have been different.

I disagree with that comparison. A teenager making a decision can't be compared to a toddler having an accident.

Not to mention it is a slippery slope. I mean how does a toddler get from one house to another, into a back yard, and then into a pool without the caretaker noticing? It is called Parental supervision.

I think I just read about a case recently where apparently because the fence was defeat-able they want to hold the home owner responsible anyway. I'm not sure but I think they were able to climb the fence to get into the pool area.

Pretty soon we'll need a Donald Trump-like wall around every pool.

xwesx · October 2016

I call BS on anyone other than the perp and, if alcohol was directly supplied by a parent, that individual being held liable in any way. Theft is theft; it matters not whether the keys were in the car - the perp still made the choice to steal it.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

Well if you walk into a courtroom expecting a) "common sense" and b) "justice", well--- good look with that.

Courts are about maneuvers and workin' the system. That's why some lawyers make a lot of money.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

Besides, this is a Canadian case. We don't know how a U.S. court would rule.

This about sums up how a US court would decide

andres3 · October 2016

All depends which judge you get and what stick riles up their behind. I wouldn't want this judge to preside over my speeding ticket trials:

http://nypost.com/2016/10/18/judge-slams-driver-in-fatal-accident-for-worshiping-speed/

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

55 mph is a pretty good clip on a Manhattan street. Also, this was a hit and run, so yeah, the judge is going to jump on him with both feet. AND rush hour traffic, too. AND after leaving the scene, he crashed into a fire hydrant. Have no idea about priors, but one has to wonder.

Other than that........

The official charge was criminally negligent homicide initially but I guess got reduced to manslaughter. Maybe some kind of plea?

andres3 · October 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
55 mph is a pretty good clip on a Manhattan street. Also, this was a hit and run, so yeah, the judge is going to jump on him with both feet. AND rush hour traffic, too. AND after leaving the scene, he crashed into a fire hydrant. Have no idea about priors, but one has to wonder.

Other than that........

The official charge was criminally negligent homicide initially but I guess got reduced to manslaughter. Maybe some kind of plea?

If he hit and ran that changes my tune at least 180 degrees and frankly he's getting off way too easy.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

A case study was posted n the iATN about a repair on a Chevrolet Volt by James A. There was one very notable statement that he made that puts servicing electric cars, and hybrids into perspective. He had to diagnose and repair a failure that was causing the Volt to not charge. In the middle of his post he wrote " Because of this, the precharge transistor is likely damaged as well. Keep in mind that when testing this unit, it is always live and fatal voltage is present at all times so care and PPE equipment are necessities. "

You don't get a second chance if you get this wrong, at 360v DC there is nothing that can be done to save you if you make a mistake.

roadburner · October 2016

As always, the Law of Natural Selection will sort things out.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2016

I suppose that it is inevitable that some DIY-er will blow the top of his head off---but then, people are, sadly, crushed when their $5 jackstands give way.

Cars are dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. You can get hit with an errant fan blade, your tie or sleeve can get caught in a spinning belt, you can be burned, scalded, blinded, crushed, mangled, diced, sliced and chopped.

thecardoc3 · October 2016

The majority of the hybrid and electric vehicles employ service disconnects that put an open circuit in the middle of the battery pack. While high voltage is still present in the cells, the likelihood of completing a circuit is very remote. The operation being discussed with the Volt reveals that is not the case and the danger is very real to anyone servicing the system.

A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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