Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100 · December 2016

This is troubling, and remember in Canada texting while driving carries a heavy fine;

Some 33 per cent of Canadians who participated in a recent poll conducted by the Canadian Automobile Association admit they have texted while stopped at a red light in the last month.

That's despite tough financial penalties for distracted driving across the country in addition to the loss of demerit points.
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Numbers are probably higher in the US, esp states like Florida, where penalty is very minor.

abacomike · December 2016

@roadburner:

I haven't gotten to the point where I would feel comfortable about going into the system settings and turning things on or off - I am at the point of learning to deal with all the default settings. Once I master those, I'll start tinkering with individualizing the settings that make the technology suit my needs, whatever those are and/or might be.

driver100 · December 2016

Mike, maybe you need to hire an IT person who can mange your electronics!

I got a call from a friendly young lady who was calling from our VW Passat dealer. Wanted to know how many miles were on the Passat as it was time for an oil change, or were we interested in trading. I explained the Passat was a great car and we liked the dealer, but we needed something larger so we traded in the Passat. She asked what we bought, so i said we fell in love with a 2014 Mercedes C250. She said she hoped we enjoy the new car.

I guess they are used to it, you win some, you lose some....all is fair in love and war, and buying and trading cars.

qbrozen · December 2016

oldfarmer50 said:

I found our 2013 Passat listed...finally. Trade in was $11200 and selling for $15500. Looks like a nice clean car! 2013 VW Passat
About a 28% mark up. Pretty close to the 30% I hear is standard. Probably with the $599 doc fee it comes right close. Your car didn't need any work did it?

Percentage doesn't work for cars. It is usually a flat $3k-$5k markup. If it was by percentage, 30% on a $60k Porsche, for example, would price it WAY above market.

nyccarguy · December 2016

Technical Question for those in the know: My Dad took his 2015 4WD Tahoe to Costco yesterday and had new tires installed. As he pulled out of the parking lot and drove up the road about a 1/4 mile, a bunch of messages on his dashboard started to pop up: Service Stabilitrak, ABS, Forward Collision Warning (when there was nobody in front of him), and his front and rear parking sensors don't work now. I have a feeling this has to do with the sensors in the wheels. They are assigned to a specific corner and the whole system goes nuts when the sensors aren't put back in a particular order. What do you guys think?

oldfarmer50 · December 2016

driver100 said:

stever said:

driver100 said:

stever said:

jmonroe said:
That is a little more than a buffer can handle but not too bad. Compared to the total of the van DIL#2 was driving that is not bad at all.

If nothing else, the kid should be given credit for hitting only one panel at least I don't see any other damage. Can't imagine not needing a new real axle and maybe even some more of that stuff.
jmonroe
Yeah, they had the body work done fast; a lot of the delay was waiting for a new axle and some other suspension parts. At the crash scene I assumed I'd be driving it home, until I looked at the rear wheel. The top was bent in to the fender liner.
I am too lazy to look back...what did they give you for it and what is KBB on it? I think they told me insurance
companies opt for a settlement...if damage is 60% of replacement. Since I don't know KBB, it would be interesting to know current value....your old one would probably be worth more as parts considering the labor that has gone into it.
What's KBB?

The real expert around here, @qbrozen, gave me a price of around $2,000 iirc, private party. TMV for Las Cruces is around $6,000 retail, $2,333 trade-in.

The estimate for the body work and suspension/axle repair is around $5,000. I have no idea why they didn't total it. My wife is glad they are fixing it, I didn't much care either way.
That really doesn't make much sense.....sounds like they could have given you $2500 and then sold it for parts. I should get a job with them....get a percentage of all I can save them.

KBB is Kelly Blue Book Value.....it seems to be the prices the dealers use, though their numbers were lower KBB than the numbers I found. I used excellent top condition though, which it was, they probably quote average prices.

I heard dealers use Black Book or Galves. Also NADA publishes something seperate for dealers that the public can't see.

I remember one trick that is used is to give you a KBB value from some far away zip code where your car isn't worth as much. Say value your Florida convertible in a NY zip code during winter.

oldfarmer50 · December 2016

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
I found our 2013 Passat listed...finally. Trade in was $11200 and selling for $15500. Looks like a nice clean car!

2013 VW Passat
About a 28% mark up. Pretty close to the 30% I hear is standard. Probably with the $599 doc fee it comes right close.

Your car didn't need any work did it?

@oldfarmer50, it's almost 2017 so it's time for you to change your calculator batteries.

My calculator says that is a little over a 38% profit without the $599 doc fee. When the doc fee is included the profit is almost 44%.

If they discount the car to $14,000 like @driver100 thinks it will sell for, the total profit is now only a mere 30%.

Nice work if you can get it and in South Florida they get it. More proof that the real money is in used cars not new ones.

This is also proof that the dealership could have afforded giving @driver100 another 200 bucks for his Passat.

jmonroe

I just hit $11,200 + 28% on the calculator and got near driver100's price. I know I not a CPA like you but am I wrong?

imidazol97 · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
Technical Question for those in the know: My Dad took his 2015 4WD Tahoe to Costco yesterday and had new tires installed. As he pulled out of the parking lot and drove up the road about a 1/4 mile, a bunch of messages on his dashboard started to pop up: Service Stabilitrak, ABS, Forward Collision Warning (when there was nobody in front of him), and his front and rear parking sensors don't work now. I have a feeling this has to do with the sensors in the wheels. They are assigned to a specific corner and the whole system goes nuts when the sensors aren't put back in a particular order. What do you guys think?

I'd start with the wheel sensors being programmed to the BCM again. Because the Stabilitrak, ABS use the brakes, that depends on knowing the rotation speed of the wheels (actually the teeth on thesensors.

The Front and Rear parking sensors are things that I wouldn't think about be triggered by bad info from the wheel sensor rings. But I can see how the Forward Collision Warning would use the wheel speed info to determine how early to give warnings because it uses the speed of the vehicle. And the FCW preps the ABS system for the brakes for quick application even if it's not a newer GM version that does auto-braking at low speeds or higher.

Back to the tire store. Might call first. But I'll bet it's not the first of that platform vehicle they had this occur on. Worse case is they disconnected one of the sensors at the wheel or broke the wire inside the covering, even though the wire looks good on the outside.

If all those messages occurred as soon as he started the car, I would have suggested looking at the battery for a bad cell or low voltage. That can cause all kinds of strange warnings when the voltage drops even after the car has been running a while.

oldfarmer50 · December 2016

I actually just read one of the ads that appear on this page and I noticed some pretty generous offers on a couple of vehicles. Are dealers really getting aggressive to bring up sales numbers or is this just more fluff to get you in the door?

nyccarguy · December 2016

imidazol97 said:

nyccarguy said:
Technical Question for those in the know: My Dad took his 2015 4WD Tahoe to Costco yesterday and had new tires installed. As he pulled out of the parking lot and drove up the road about a 1/4 mile, a bunch of messages on his dashboard started to pop up: Service Stabilitrak, ABS, Forward Collision Warning (when there was nobody in front of him), and his front and rear parking sensors don't work now. I have a feeling this has to do with the sensors in the wheels. They are assigned to a specific corner and the whole system goes nuts when the sensors aren't put back in a particular order. What do you guys think?
I'd start with the wheel sensors being programmed to the BCM again. Because the Stabilitrak, ABS use the brakes, that depends on knowing the rotation speed of the wheels (actually the teeth on thesensors.

The Front and Rear parking sensors are things that I wouldn't think about be triggered by bad info from the wheel sensor rings. But I can see how the Forward Collision Warning would use the wheel speed info to determine how early to give warnings because it uses the speed of the vehicle. And the FCW preps the ABS system for the brakes for quick application even if it's not a newer GM version that does auto-braking at low speeds or higher.

Back to the tire store. Might call first. But I'll bet it's not the first of that platform vehicle they had this occur on. Worse case is they disconnected one of the sensors at the wheel or broke the wire inside the covering, even though the wire looks good on the outside.

If all those messages occurred as soon as he started the car, I would have suggested looking at the battery for a bad cell or low voltage. That can cause all kinds of strange warnings when the voltage drops even after the car has been running a while.

Thank-you. Costco opens at 10:00 AM. I'll give them a call in a few. Hopefully they'll be able to fix this without a trip to the dealer. Although, my Dad is due for an oil change soon and is covered under GM's Gold Extended Warranty.

qbrozen · December 2016

First thing I'd do is check that the correct size tires were installed and same brand and size and all corners.

henryn · December 2016

GM isn't going to fix it under warranty if Costco broke it. Your father could get caught in the middle of a nasty finger pointing exercise.

abacomike · December 2016

nyccarguy said:

imidazol97 said:

nyccarguy said:
Technical Question for those in the know: My Dad took his 2015 4WD Tahoe to Costco yesterday and had new tires installed. As he pulled out of the parking lot and drove up the road about a 1/4 mile, a bunch of messages on his dashboard started to pop up: Service Stabilitrak, ABS, Forward Collision Warning (when there was nobody in front of him), and his front and rear parking sensors don't work now. I have a feeling this has to do with the sensors in the wheels. They are assigned to a specific corner and the whole system goes nuts when the sensors aren't put back in a particular order. What do you guys think?
I'd start with the wheel sensors being programmed to the BCM again. Because the Stabilitrak, ABS use the brakes, that depends on knowing the rotation speed of the wheels (actually the teeth on thesensors.

The Front and Rear parking sensors are things that I wouldn't think about be triggered by bad info from the wheel sensor rings. But I can see how the Forward Collision Warning would use the wheel speed info to determine how early to give warnings because it uses the speed of the vehicle. And the FCW preps the ABS system for the brakes for quick application even if it's not a newer GM version that does auto-braking at low speeds or higher.

Back to the tire store. Might call first. But I'll bet it's not the first of that platform vehicle they had this occur on. Worse case is they disconnected one of the sensors at the wheel or broke the wire inside the covering, even though the wire looks good on the outside.

If all those messages occurred as soon as he started the car, I would have suggested looking at the battery for a bad cell or low voltage. That can cause all kinds of strange warnings when the voltage drops even after the car has been running a while.
Thank-you. Costco opens at 10:00 AM. I'll give them a call in a few. Hopefully they'll be able to fix this without a trip to the dealer. Although, my Dad is due for an oil change soon and is covered under GM's Gold Extended Warranty.

When your Dad picked up his vehicle at Costco and the warning and error messages started, he should have taken it right back to Costco - like immediately! Costco is supposed to drive vehicles they do work on to make sure everything is in order. Tire size, inflation, sensors in the wheels for the tire monitor to read, etc., could individually or in combination be causing the computer in the Tahoe to mumble and complain via messages. They may have even put the wheels on the Tahoe incorrectly - FR on the LR, LR on the LF, etc.

It is also quite possible that Costco will not be able to restore the settings. Then, the Tahoe has to be taken to a dealer that knows what to do. It is also plausible that since the dealer did not do the work, it will not be covered under warranty. That's how these dealers keep their fingers in the pockets of their customers - unfortunately.

jmonroe · December 2016

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
I found our 2013 Passat listed...finally. Trade in was $11200 and selling for $15500. Looks like a nice clean car!

2013 VW Passat
About a 28% mark up. Pretty close to the 30% I hear is standard. Probably with the $599 doc fee it comes right close.

Your car didn't need any work did it?

@oldfarmer50, it's almost 2017 so it's time for you to change your calculator batteries.

My calculator says that is a little over a 38% profit without the $599 doc fee. When the doc fee is included the profit is almost 44%.

If they discount the car to $14,000 like @driver100 thinks it will sell for, the total profit is now only a mere 30%.

Nice work if you can get it and in South Florida they get it. More proof that the real money is in used cars not new ones.

This is also proof that the dealership could have afforded giving @driver100 another 200 bucks for his Passat.

jmonroe
I just hit $11,200 + 28% on the calculator and got near driver100's price. I know I not a CPA like you but am I wrong?

Don't try to bump me up to the CPA class. My lowly sheepskin was in the technical field.

The numbers you got are about right for the $14,000 that @driver100 thought they would get for his old Passat.

My numbers are for the $15,500 that the dealer wanted to get for his Passat (per what @driver100 first posted).

jmonroe

sda · December 2016

nyccarguy said:

imidazol97 said:

nyccarguy said:
Technical Question for those in the know: My Dad took his 2015 4WD Tahoe to Costco yesterday and had new tires installed. As he pulled out of the parking lot and drove up the road about a 1/4 mile, a bunch of messages on his dashboard started to pop up: Service Stabilitrak, ABS, Forward Collision Warning (when there was nobody in front of him), and his front and rear parking sensors don't work now. I have a feeling this has to do with the sensors in the wheels. They are assigned to a specific corner and the whole system goes nuts when the sensors aren't put back in a particular order. What do you guys think?
I'd start with the wheel sensors being programmed to the BCM again. Because the Stabilitrak, ABS use the brakes, that depends on knowing the rotation speed of the wheels (actually the teeth on thesensors.

The Front and Rear parking sensors are things that I wouldn't think about be triggered by bad info from the wheel sensor rings. But I can see how the Forward Collision Warning would use the wheel speed info to determine how early to give warnings because it uses the speed of the vehicle. And the FCW preps the ABS system for the brakes for quick application even if it's not a newer GM version that does auto-braking at low speeds or higher.

Back to the tire store. Might call first. But I'll bet it's not the first of that platform vehicle they had this occur on. Worse case is they disconnected one of the sensors at the wheel or broke the wire inside the covering, even though the wire looks good on the outside.

If all those messages occurred as soon as he started the car, I would have suggested looking at the battery for a bad cell or low voltage. That can cause all kinds of strange warnings when the voltage drops even after the car has been running a while.
Thank-you. Costco opens at 10:00 AM. I'll give them a call in a few. Hopefully they'll be able to fix this without a trip to the dealer. Although, my Dad is due for an oil change soon and is covered under GM's Gold Extended Warranty.

There maybe a reset procedure that hasn't been done. Check the Owner's Manual, it is generally spelled out there.

abacomike · December 2016

On the way home from an early walk at the Mall, I did something I haven't done in years - I stopped off at the local Dunkin' Donuts Shop and had two plain old fashion donuts and a cup of coffee. After downing the donuts, I began to regret what I had done. Even though they are plain donuts, there is still sugar in those things - so I am going to take my blood sugar reading just before lunch to see how high it got. Shame on me - double shame on me - but...aah!

suydam · December 2016

It's not the sugars as much as the carbs. Two small plain donuts are probably fine now and then. Just watch your carb intake the rest of the day.

jmonroe · December 2016

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
I found our 2013 Passat listed...finally. Trade in was $11200 and selling for $15500. Looks like a nice clean car!

2013 VW Passat
About a 28% mark up. Pretty close to the 30% I hear is standard. Probably with the $599 doc fee it comes right close.

Your car didn't need any work did it?

@oldfarmer50, it's almost 2017 so it's time for you to change your calculator batteries.

My calculator says that is a little over a 38% profit without the $599 doc fee. When the doc fee is included the profit is almost 44%.

If they discount the car to $14,000 like @driver100 thinks it will sell for, the total profit is now only a mere 30%.

Nice work if you can get it and in South Florida they get it. More proof that the real money is in used cars not new ones.

This is also proof that the dealership could have afforded giving @driver100 another 200 bucks for his Passat.

jmonroe
I have to agree with Berri on this one. We traded in a car that suited our purposes for 4 years...it cost about $12k in depreciation or $3000 a year (depreciation). We couldn't have afforded a new Mercedes in 2012, but, finances are better now so we can pay the extra $14000 that the Mercedes cost. We are getting a much better car, and it is one year newer.

Since we do so few miles a year, tops will be about 5000 if we start flying to Florida each year, buying a CPO model with 12k miles on it was the way to go.

We are very happy, and if the dealer can make a nice profit good for them. I sure wouldn't have wanted to do the CL thing.

BTW....what would a fair profit be? Don't forget to include overhead and calculate what they might sell the Passat for.

And, I feel better negotiating for that extra $200, or maybe I would feel ripped off!

I'm sure you would agree with @berri since he agrees with you. No surprise there.

I'll never understand why car buyers think they have to allow the dealer to make a fair profit. That is the last thing on my mind when I am buying a car. The dealer has sold many cars and they know exactly how to make a profit, fair or otherwise. Like I have said before, "it's all I can do to stay on my side of the table. Playing both sides is a sure recipe for losing some of your money". So, maybe that is your problem. Stay on your own side of the table and maybe you would have gotten another $200 dollars for your Passat. It's at least worth a try. There is plenty of time to cave, like in a day or two.

I will admit that buying a used car is different than buying new because used cars are usually one of a kind most of the time. So that is where the caving comes into the process.

That's the way I have always done it and I'm not going to change until I find that my method is broken.

jmonroe

suydam · December 2016

I think it's just a matter of priorities. It's balancing what you can afford over how much time you need/want to spend grinding out every last dollar you can. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle,

jmonroe · December 2016

abacomike said:
On the way home from an early walk at the Mall, I did something I haven't done in years - I stopped off at the local Dunkin' Donuts Shop and had two plain old fashion donuts and a cup of coffee. After downing the donuts, I began to regret what I had done. Even though they are plain donuts, there is still sugar in those things - so I am going to take my blood sugar reading just before lunch to see how high it got. Shame on me - double shame on me - but...aah!

A fat pill every now and then is probably not going to hurt you.

How long did it take for you to lose that smile on your face?

FWIW, I like Dunkin fat pills more than Krispy Cream.

jmonroe

driver100 · December 2016

To walk off the calories in one donut...almost 300 calories, you have to walk for 60 minutes. I don't find the pleasure is worth the pain!

jmonroe · December 2016

suydam said:
I think it's just a matter of priorities. It's balancing what you can afford over how much time you need/want to spend grinding out every last dollar you can. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle,

I don't think that I am a grinder. I due my research, come up with a number and that pretty much has to be met.

Many years ago a salesman told me that he had lowered his price 3 times but I did not increase my price even once. I told him, "you're right. Do you want to sell me the car or not". He wanted to sell the car at my price so that's the way it happened. And I'm sure he made a FAIR profit.

This car buying thing ain't as hard as most people make it out to be.

jmonroe

driver100 · December 2016

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
I found our 2013 Passat listed...finally. Trade in was $11200 and selling for $15500. Looks like a nice clean car!

2013 VW Passat
About a 28% mark up. Pretty close to the 30% I hear is standard. Probably with the $599 doc fee it comes right close.

Your car didn't need any work did it?

@oldfarmer50, it's almost 2017 so it's time for you to change your calculator batteries.

My calculator says that is a little over a 38% profit without the $599 doc fee. When the doc fee is included the profit is almost 44%.

If they discount the car to $14,000 like @driver100 thinks it will sell for, the total profit is now only a mere 30%.

Nice work if you can get it and in South Florida they get it. More proof that the real money is in used cars not new ones.

This is also proof that the dealership could have afforded giving @driver100 another 200 bucks for his Passat.

jmonroe
I have to agree with Berri on this one. We traded in a car that suited our purposes for 4 years...it cost about $12k in depreciation or $3000 a year (depreciation). We couldn't have afforded a new Mercedes in 2012, but, finances are better now so we can pay the extra $14000 that the Mercedes cost. We are getting a much better car, and it is one year newer.

Since we do so few miles a year, tops will be about 5000 if we start flying to Florida each year, buying a CPO model with 12k miles on it was the way to go.

We are very happy, and if the dealer can make a nice profit good for them. I sure wouldn't have wanted to do the CL thing.

BTW....what would a fair profit be? Don't forget to include overhead and calculate what they might sell the Passat for.

And, I feel better negotiating for that extra $200, or maybe I would feel ripped off!
I'm sure you would agree with @berri since he agrees with you. No surprise there.

I'll never understand why car buyers think they have to allow the dealer to make a fair profit. That is the last thing on my mind when I am buying a car. The dealer has sold many cars and they know exactly how to make a profit, fair or otherwise. Like I have said before, "it's all I can do to stay on my side of the table. Playing both sides is a sure recipe for losing some of your money". So, maybe that is your problem. Stay on your own side of the table and maybe you would have gotten another $200 dollars for your Passat. It's at least worth a try. There is plenty of time to cave, like in a day or two.

I will admit that buying a used car is different than buying new because used cars are usually one of a kind most of the time. So that is where the caving comes into the process.

That's the way I have always done it and I'm not going to change until I find that my method is broken.

jmonroe

JMonroe, I agree with Berri because I disagree with you!

If we don't let a business make a profit they won't be there for you in the future. I'm not saying excess profit, just a fair profit.

Book value for the Passat was around $11k. I saw 2014 Mercedes that weren't as nice listed for up to $3000 more. We were prepared to pay the full price in order to get the car we wanted, and if it works out we will want this car for a long time...which may save even more money over time.

I will agree with you a new car is different, margins are lower, and you can shop around. Play your games with new cars, and with used cars you don't care whether you get it or not.

suydam · December 2016

Re: donuts. When you are on a low carb, low sugar donut, fat is not the issue. And a plain donut is hardly a fat bomb anyway.

driver100 · December 2016

JMonroe, another thing is you have more bargaining room with some makes than with others. Hyundai wants to move cars, so they will cave easier.

Some makes don't allow much room for bargaining techniques. I have found with the last few cars I have bought from, they know people are fairly knowledgeable these days. If they realize you aren't a newbie, they try to give you a pretty good price from the start, they don't want to be seen as untrustworthy. In fact, the Audi salesman we bought the A4 gave me my prices right off....he said, we are in a high income area with lots of business people, we have to be realistic.

Mercedes and BMW dealers don't cave too easily.

driver100 · December 2016

suydam said:
Re: donuts. When you are on a low carb, low sugar donut, fat is not the issue. And a plain donut is hardly a fat bomb anyway.

Nobody got skinny eating them!

imidazol97 · December 2016

sda said:

nyccarguy said:

Thank-you. Costco opens at 10:00 AM. I'll give them a call in a few. Hopefully they'll be able to fix this without a trip to the dealer. Although, my Dad is due for an oil change soon and is covered under GM's Gold Extended Warranty.
There maybe a reset procedure that hasn't been done. Check the Owner's Manual, it is generally spelled out there.

The reset procedure uses a scanner that reads each tire pressure monitor inside the tire and nudges it to send a signal to the car's computer (wireless). I have one of the simple ones. It can also write the data from one sensor to another, or a new replacement. The home scanner method is put the car in learn mode (press lock and unlock buttons on keyfod for 5 seconds or so til horn beeps). Then the left front park light turns on indicating to set that pressure sender with your scanner. Horn beep. Then RF. Then RR. Then LR. Double horn beep and car is all set. The more professional scanners store all four transmitters data and then write it to the new tire at the location. Then the car computer never knew anything moved. The same code number is sending data and it's on the LF, e.g..

And it could be tire is not the same size as the others and rolls a different distance/revolution, confusing the computer for the ABS and other systems.

imidazol97 · December 2016

abacomike said:
... so I am going to take my blood sugar reading just before lunch to see how high it got. Shame on me - double shame on me - but...aah!

One time won't kill you. It's the repetition that becomes a problem. When I last saw my doctor for checkup, he reminded me he wants me to lose weight. He told me how much walking it took to burn off even 8 jellybeans. You just have to avoid the excesses as a general pattern. Just change your daily habits and say, "No."

nyccarguy · December 2016

qbrozen said:
First thing I'd do is check that the correct size tires were installed and same brand and size and all corners.

Done. Check. Check.

jmonroe · December 2016

OK, since we are talking about car sales and Fair profits let me throw this out since it is now relevant.

As I mentioned a few days ago, Son #2 is looking for a new (actually used) replacement for the Kia van that his wife was driving when it was totaled a little more than a week ago when a pickup slid into her.

He goes to a Honda dealer and drives an Odyssey. He said it was nice and it was in the running but it was a little more than he wanted to spend and he let the salesman know that. The salesman says, "it's a Honda (typical response from a Honda salesmen) so it holds its value but I'll lower the price $150 to get this deal done". My Son tells him it's still too high and he is going to continue shopping.

The salesman called him late yesterday afternoon and said, "I'd like to get this deal done, so I'll take $300 off the price of the van". Son #2 said, "is that $300 on top of the $150 you offered the other day"? My Son said he could almost hear the salesman choking and the salesman said, "NO, $300 total". My Son told him he's still looking.

Does this mean they are going to see who flinches first? My Son says another $150 will probably get the deal done on this Odyssey but he's not convinced that he even wants it now that he has seen other vehicles. His wife is now leaning towards an Explorer.

TO BE CONTINUED.

jmonroe

nyccarguy · December 2016

Drove my Dad's truck back to Costco. The guy remembers pulling the truck in the bay and swears the ABS light was on. He checked the tires, reset the sensors, and plugged his computer into the OBD II. Lights still on.

Off to the dealer. Dad needs an oil change anyway. Service advisor comes out and asks what the problem is. I tell him I got an email from On Star telling me to bring the truck in for Stabilitrak Service & ABS. I also tell him about the parking sensors. The bad news. They can't even look at the car today, but given the severity of the 2 lights thAt are on and the fact that it's supposed to snow tomorrow, he offers me a loaner car. I politely decline telling him that Dad travels back & forth with a large dog whom I don't want to shed on their loaner. They tell me to bring it in 1st thing Friday AM.

jmonroe · December 2016

driver100 said:
JMonroe, another thing is you have more bargaining room with some makes than with others. Hyundai wants to move cars, so they will cave easier.

Some makes don't allow much room for bargaining techniques. I have found with the last few cars I have bought from, they know people are fairly knowledgeable these days. If they realize you aren't a newbie, they try to give you a pretty good price from the start, they don't want to be seen as untrustworthy. In fact, the Audi salesman we bought the A4 gave me my prices right off....he said, we are in a high income area with lots of business people, we have to be realistic.

Mercedes and BMW dealers don't cave too easily.

I haven't purchased throwaways all my life. Just started doing that a few years ago.

I used to purchase keepers like GM car years ago until they went down hill. Therefore, my method is not based only on my recent purchases and both of my Sons use my method too and they have never and probably never will purchase a throwaway.

If all it takes to get what you want is a couple hundred bucks then do it. But I'd have to use my method first before giving away any of my money.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

driver100 said:

suydam said:
Re: donuts. When you are on a low carb, low sugar donut, fat is not the issue. And a plain donut is hardly a fat bomb anyway.
Nobody got skinny eating them!

If you only ate two donuts every day, you'd probably lose weight.

Of course, Mike hasn't told us how many donuts he REALLY ate.

jpp75 · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
Drove my Dad's truck back to Costco. The guy remembers pulling the truck in the bay and swears the ABS light was on. He checked the tires, reset the sensors, and plugged his computer into the OBD II. Lights still on.

Off to the dealer. Dad needs an oil change anyway. Service advisor comes out and asks what the problem is. I tell him I got an email from On Star telling me to bring the truck in for Stabilitrak Service & ABS. I also tell him about the parking sensors. The bad news. They can't even look at the car today, but given the severity of the 2 lights thAt are on and the fact that it's supposed to snow tomorrow, he offers me a loaner car. I politely decline telling him that Dad travels back & forth with a large dog whom I don't want to shed on their loaner. They tell me to bring it in 1st thing Friday AM.

I would expect that they would have documented the ABS light was on when they took it in to avoid these kinds of scenarios.

oldfarmer50 · December 2016

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
I found our 2013 Passat listed...finally. Trade in was $11200 and selling for $15500. Looks like a nice clean car!

2013 VW Passat
About a 28% mark up. Pretty close to the 30% I hear is standard. Probably with the $599 doc fee it comes right close.

Your car didn't need any work did it?

Percentage doesn't work for cars. It is usually a flat $3k-$5k markup. If it was by percentage, 30% on a $60k Porsche, for example, would price it WAY above market.

Q:

What do you figure the mark up is on this?

http://www.manginochevy.com/VehicleDetails/used-2012-Ford-Mustang-GT_Premium-Amsterdam-NY/2868485363

My friend wants to go look at it Saturday.

abacomike · December 2016

Regarding donuts, I have no plans to repeat my transgression (going to Dunkin' Donuts to buy those heavenly old fashioned plain donuts) anytime soon. I just needed a "fix" of something, and donuts seemed the least habit-forming "fix" I could find.

@driver100 said:

JMonroe, another thing is you have more bargaining room with some makes than with others. Hyundai wants to move cars, so they will cave easier.

Some makes don't allow much room for bargaining techniques. I have found with the last few cars I have bought from, they know people are fairly knowledgeable these days. If they realize you aren't a newbie, they try to give you a pretty good price from the start, they don't want to be seen as untrustworthy. In fact, the Audi salesman we bought the A4 gave me my prices right off....he said, we are in a high income area with lots of business people, we have to be realistic.

Mercedes and BMW dealers don't cave too easily.

From my experiences with Mercedes and BMW, they are actually no different than Chevy, Dodge, Hyundai, Toyota - or for that matter, any other dealer of high production vehicles. If a customer goes in to buy a BMW or Mercedes (regular production vehicle - not a limited, higher priced vehicle), there is no reason why an invoice or invoice+ a few hundred dollars cannot be had. If you do your research like most of us regularly do here at Edmunds Forums, you know approximate invoice, incentives, wholesale value for your trade (if you have one), and availability based upon dealer inventory checks/visits. I just go in with an out the door price and I usually walk out with a new car - eventually. You just have to work at it.

As for giving the dealership a "fair profit" on the car you purchase, that's rubbish, IMHO. The dealer is not interested in each vehicle sale being a "fair profit" or a "huge profit" maker - they are interested in the "average gross profit" of the cars sold in a given month. Some sales are "losers" for a dealer, some are low profit, some are medium profit, and then there are those "bangers" that are huge profit makers.

I chose to be the customer who gives the dealer a loser deal or a break-even deal. They always have their hold back and CSI incentives from the manufacturer. I can't remember when I heard about a dealership closing its doors because they were losing too much money and not making a fair profit.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

Dealers usually go out of business either because the factory Yanks the franchise or the product stinks.e.g. some GM dealers in 2008, Saab dealers, Daewoo, Pontiac etc

driver100 · December 2016

I have a Mercedes dealer 2 miles from me - where I bought the E400s and GLK, or I can drive 20 miles to another dealer or 30 to 40 miles more to check 2 other dealers. All the dealers say their highest discount is 4% off the price of a new car....some won't even give a discount. BMW and Audi are similar.

I could drive around to all these dealers and hope they are having a slow month and have to deep discount to move a car, but, that rarely works...all these dealerships are selling cars these days.

Someone may offer more for the trade-in, but, that is fairly cut and dried unless a dealer has a buyer in mind. It seems to be the really successful dealerships have found what works these days...one's like AutoNation, give a fair price and don't give in TOO MUCH. From my experience, they would rather lose a sale than give in to a skinny deal and devalue their business.

JMonroes son has a few things working for him, if he wants a Honda they are plentiful, he wasn't that tied to the car to begin with, he has time on his side, plus more. Some of us just want to get a car we like and get on with our lives.

driver100 · December 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
Dealers usually go out of business either because the factory Yanks the franchise or the product stinks.e.g. some GM dealers in 2008, Saab dealers, Daewoo, Pontiac etc

Lots of dealers go out of business just because they don't compete very well. You forget about them and they quietly close their doors, but I know GM, Ford and Chrysler dealers closed even during the heyday years!

When i bought my 92 Cavalier I went to a Pontiac dealer and test drove a Sunbird. The dealer was having a 72 hour unbelievable sale going on. The owner took me for a test drive....the guy was sweating bullets the whole time and it wasn't a hot day, and my driving is pretty good. Their price wasn't that great, and they went bankrupt a few days after the big sale...that's when I knew why he was sweating.

berri · December 2016

I think maybe luxury brands promote more through lease deals than sales discounts?

nyccarguy · December 2016

So one of the problems my Dad's Tahoe has mysteriously developed is the front & rear parking sensors don't work anymore. Where would a good place to put that error message be?

28firefighter · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
So one of the problems my Dad's Tahoe has mysteriously developed is the front & rear parking sensors don't work anymore. Where would a good place to put that error message be?

Was that before or after you backed into something?

abacomike · December 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

suydam said:
Re: donuts. When you are on a low carb, low sugar donut, fat is not the issue. And a plain donut is hardly a fat bomb anyway.
Nobody got skinny eating them!
If you only ate two donuts every day, you'd probably lose weight.

Of course, Mike hasn't told us how many donuts he REALLY ate.

TWO! I only ate two! Promise - couldn't eat any more than 2 if I tried - my appetite is failing me.

abacomike · December 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
Dealers usually go out of business either because the factory Yanks the franchise or the product stinks.e.g. some GM dealers in 2008, Saab dealers, Daewoo, Pontiac etc

Exactly! You hit the nail right on the head, Shifty.

abacomike · December 2016

driver100 said:
I have a Mercedes dealer 2 miles from me - where I bought the E400s and GLK, or I can drive 20 miles to another dealer or 30 to 40 miles more to check 2 other dealers. All the dealers say their highest discount is 4% off the price of a new car....some won't even give a discount. BMW and Audi are similar.

I could drive around to all these dealers and hope they are having a slow month and have to deep discount to move a car, but, that rarely works...all these dealerships are selling cars these days.

Someone may offer more for the trade-in, but, that is fairly cut and dried unless a dealer has a buyer in mind. It seems to be the really successful dealerships have found what works these days...one's like AutoNation, give a fair price and don't give in TOO MUCH. From my experience, they would rather lose a sale than give in to a skinny deal and devalue their business.

JMonroes son has a few things working for him, if he wants a Honda they are plentiful, he wasn't that tied to the car to begin with, he has time on his side, plus more. Some of us just want to get a car we like and get on with our lives.

Driver, you have to understand that you are buying most of your cars in a totally different market - a Canadian Market, to be exact. So you are probably at the mercy of the dealerships because cars are sold for a minimum profit - at least that is what I extrapolated from your buying experiences up in the Land Where The Cold and Snow Comes From! When you buy your cars down here in the Land That Receives All The Cold and Snow From The Land Where the Cold and Snow Comes From, you are in a market that is used to "dealing" for price. I am sure if you really wanted to, you could get a car for a lot less than you normally pay for them - but I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't really want to be bothered with heavy "...I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down..." type of negotiating. Am I right?

driver100 · December 2016

You are right on both counts. Canadians are more reserved and don't do as much of the splashy selling.....no Billy Fuccillo's for example...there is a really annoying one playing on the radio now where everyone is shouting the whole time. That would really turn people off in the frozen tundra.

Not much use in me driving all over to try and save a few $100s. Even the dealer the insurance company wanted me to go to would have only saved about $200, and that was a dealer that was in with the insurance company.

Used cars there is probably more flexibility, and I would fight for what seems to be a fair price, but I would rather pay more for a car I am going to love, than get a good deal just because I need a car.

driver100 · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
So one of the problems my Dad's Tahoe has mysteriously developed is the front & rear parking sensors don't work anymore. Where would a good place to put that error message be?

Watch out! You are turning into a black car.

explorerx4 · December 2016

The issue with the Tahoe could be due to a wheel speed sensor.

stever · December 2016

Got the van back. Nice not having a console taking up a lot of room - there's a small one in the van but it takes up no knee room. Repair looks fine to my amateur eye, but the one new rim sticks out like an unsalted pretzel in a bag of kosher ones. Maybe I can get a before and after shot in here.

abacomike · December 2016

stever said:

Got the van back. Nice not having a console taking up a lot of room - there's a small one in the van but it takes up no knee room. Repair looks fine to my amateur eye, but the one new rim sticks out like an unsalted pretzel in a bag of kosher ones.

Looks like they did a nice job, Stever.

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