Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stever · January 2017

Invoice on a '17 Limited is ~6% back of MSRP.

$1,000 off of that ($27,196) would be almost 10% off MSRP ($30,070). My numbers include the $875 destination btw.

Looks like supply and demand have leveled - TMV is close to invoice. Don't think that was true a year ago.

Just looked at inventory in Ohio and theirs are J VINs.

28firefighter · January 2017

stickguy said:

not sure about Ford, but the VW dealer did say that if we needed the Jetta slightly longer, we could extend for a short time (a month or 2?) Not sure of how that works, but I think just make the same payment. Might take them up on that, depending on what the Princess is doing right after graduation. Hopefully working already, so if so and she needs the car for commuting, might be worth extending to give some more time for her to get a replacement (in her name, on her dime!). As to the X1, the one I drove was loaded. Including the sports seats. Gotta have those! which is going to be real tough on a left over. I don't recall any rattles, but it was a short drive. I did love the driving dynamics. and plenty big enough for me. I never drove an XT Forester. Not sure I even drove a base engine? Rode in them with my SIL when she test drove (ended up buying one, and likes it). I'm sure the extra HP is nice. Definitely more functional, having a squared off back end. 1K below invoice is good. I can get insider VIP exec pricing, and I think that is 2% below (so on a 30k car, about $600). Guess it pays to haggle first. I plan to look at them next year, and the new Imprezza.

I do not want the Escape any longer than necessary.

If it were my car, I think I would take the X1. But wife put the stroller and a few baby things we've gotten already and it was tight without removing the shelf in the back (which is what they have instead of a sliding cover).

stickguy · January 2017

oh, for sure, she makes the final call if it is her DD. I learned that lesson the hard way! And not like a Sube limited with the turbo is any kind of penalty box. I could live with one of them. Even better if you could get it with a stick shift!

Michaell · January 2017

I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions. Wasn't thrilled with the 2.5i + CVT; the turbo engine has to make it better in almost every way, except fuel economy.

You think you can get a local dealer to match the Heuberger pricing? You might be coming out here for your next car, just like @cdnpinhead is later this month.

@breld and I are the official Colorado welcoming committee.

stickguy · January 2017

the base motor is probably better at sea level. The Turbo (at least per the EPA) does take a major hit at mileage. Plus, requires premium (I have no desire to do that again). I think for me, a 2.5 is plenty spunky. Can even get a premium with a 6 speed stick, as long as you don't want any options, because you can't get them (it is mostly the eyesight stuff, though also I think the all season package).

28firefighter · January 2017

Michaell said:

I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions. Wasn't thrilled with the 2.5i + CVT; the turbo engine has to make it better in almost every way, except fuel economy. You think you can get a local dealer to match the Heuberger pricing? You might be coming out here for your next car, just like @cdnpinhead is later this month. @breld and I are the official Colorado welcoming committee.

We have at least 7 Subaru dealers in the Greater Seattle/Tacoma area, so I'm cautiously optimistic I can do it - or at least close enough to offset what my travel would be.

I really do want to make it to Colorado one of these days. Was last there 6 years ago for my BIL's wedding in Manitou Springs.

stever · January 2017

Michaell said:
I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions.

When it came time to trade in her '05 Forester last year, my sister "downsized" from another Subaru wagon to the "crossover".

Edmunds now calls it the Forester SUV and the Outback is an SUV now too. Back in '05 they were both called wagons.

sda · January 2017

28firefighter said:

Michaell said:

I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions. Wasn't thrilled with the 2.5i + CVT; the turbo engine has to make it better in almost every way, except fuel economy.

You think you can get a local dealer to match the Heuberger pricing? You might be coming out here for your next car, just like @cdnpinhead is later this month.

@breld and I are the official Colorado welcoming committee.

We have at least 7 Subaru dealers in the Greater Seattle/Tacoma area, so I'm cautiously optimistic I can do it - or at least close enough to offset what my travel would be.

I really do want to make it to Colorado one of these days. Was last there 6 years ago for my BIL's wedding in Manitou Springs.

The BMW sounds like a great driving vehicle, rattles and squeaks, not so. Don't discount the need for room to carry around half your house to take care of baby needs! We went from my wife's Passat that she loved to a Honda Odyssey, which we were pleasantly surprised by how much we would enjoy it. That was some years ago before these attractive smaller SUV like became available.

nyccarguy · January 2017

You've heard me preach time & again how you DO NOT want the base 2.5i engine. My sister has a Turbo Forester. I drove it once and the turbo motor/CVT combination gives the car plenty of giddy-up. It's hard to compare anything to the BMW driving experience once you drive the BMW.

FWIW, we did just fine with a 2007 X3 with one child, then 2. You'll quickly realize the cargo shelf or tonneau cover will sit in the garage & rot. Kid stuff (especially the 1st one takes up A LOT of room). "Honey, I know we are just going for a short trip to the mall, but we NEED to bring the regular & the jogging stroller, plus the high chair, over packed diaper bag..."

BTW, I highly recommend the CITY MINI brand strollers. They are light, very sturdy, well constructed, & fold almost completely flat.

You might also want to look into aftermarket parts for the Forester. Maybe some WRX suspension bits will bolt on. I had the dealer install a 19 mm rear sway bar from the Outback on my Legacy which came with a 16 mm rear swamy bar. It makes a huge difference. The Turbo Forester is a nice package. It's not cheap, but you don't have to jump through hoops like you will to get it to fit in your budget like the X1.

qbrozen · January 2017

Soooo...why not an X3?

CPO would probably be cheaper than a new Forester.

kyfdx · January 2017

My wife would love a new car. You can buy her 2011 X3, with only 82K miles!

sda · January 2017

not sure about Ford, but the VW dealer did say that if we needed the Jetta slightly longer, we could extend for a short time (a month or 2?) Not sure of how that works, but I think just make the same payment. Might take them up on that, depending

Unless something has changed, Honda Finance will allow you to extend the lease. All you have to do is call them and they send you a form to fill out. It is easy.

28firefighter · January 2017

qbrozen said:

Soooo...why not an X3?

CPO would probably be cheaper than a new Forester.

We are going to lease and the X3 is about $200 more per month.

28firefighter · January 2017

nyccarguy said:

BTW, I highly recommend the CITY MINI brand strollers. They are light, very sturdy, well constructed, & fold almost completely flat..

That's exactly what we have! The City Mini GT.

stickguy · January 2017

leasing is a weird thing like that at times. You can get a nicer/higher priced car for a lower payment quite often.

28firefighter · January 2017

The X3 is fairly notorious for not leasing well. Combination of lower residuals and lower discounts. If we weren't leasing, the CPO world would be our oyster. But wife wants me to pay off the note on my GTI, so we can have one payment. I suggested that gave us more room in the budget and she quickly corrected my thinking.

Believe me, I've been pushing the BMW route any which way I can.

Michaell · January 2017

kyfdx said:
My wife would love a new car. You can buy her 2011 X3, with only 82K miles!

I thought the Range Rover was for her - why did she veto it?

suydam · January 2017

28firefighter said:
The X3 is fairly notorious for not leasing well. Combination of lower residuals and lower discounts. If we weren't leasing, the CPO world would be our oyster. But wife wants me to pay off the note on my GTI, so we can have one payment. I suggested that gave us more room in the budget and she quickly corrected my thinking.

Believe me, I've been pushing the BMW route any which way I can.

That's what we decided to do -- pay off the Encore and have one payment leasing the Volt.

stickguy · January 2017

I can't wait to get down to 1 or no payment again. This kid really needs to graduate and get out on her own.

just made the spring Junior year payment. That was a bad one, since she is doing term abroad. ouch.

sda · January 2017

stickguy said:
I can't wait to get down to 1 or no payment again. This kid really needs to graduate and get out on her own.

just made the spring Junior year payment. That was a bad one, since she is doing term abroad. ouch.

It's wonderful that you can do that for her!

laurasdada · January 2017

LF returned to BMW store for her state inspection. As promised, they had another gift for her, her choice of BMW clothing. Sales dude asked her not to go too nuts..she said she did. Got a puffy looking jacket. So, the sins of the sales/FI process netted her an extra year of Sirius, winter mats and a puffy BMW jacket.

I got a rock.

tifighter · January 2017

When you are getting serious about the Subaru option, Joe Spitz at Carter is the guy. There probably aren't many people in the US that sell more Subies.

28firefighter · January 2017

tifighter said:

When you are getting serious about the Subaru option, Joe Spitz at Carter is the guy. There probably aren't many people in the US that sell more Subies.

Thanks @tifighter! I'm already working with someone down in Ballard because I hadn't heard of that site before today, but I spent the better part of 2 hours going through the options and accessories today. There isn't a better resource out there for Subarus. The good news is, I have a deal someone else made with Carter in the last month so it should be pretty easy negotiating.

Just trying to get my hands on a Subaru ambassador coupon to sweeten the deal.

corvette · January 2017

As requested, here's the 2016 list:

2016 Punch List (total 45):
01/02/16 jpp5682 2016 VW Touareg Luxury w/Driver Assist (lease)
01/09/16 breld 2012 BMW X5 35d 30k
01/21/16 breld 2016 VW Jetta Sport (lease)
01/30/16 roadburner 2015 BMW M235i CPO xxk
03/03/16 au1994 2013 Mercedes E350 cabriolet 34k
03/07/16 breld 2012 MINI Cooper 20k
03/xx/16 nippononly 2016 Toyota Camry Hybrid
04/03/16 corvette 2012 Nissan Murano SL 53k
05/02/16 andres3 2016 Audi TTS
05/03/16 carnaught 2017 Audi A4 Premium Plus
05/17/16 graphicguy’s son 2016 VW GTI Track Pack
05/28/16 sb55 2014 BMW 535d X-drive
05/30/16 eriknorcal 2012 VW GTI DSG 52k
06/17/16 elias 2016 Chevrolet Sonic LT 1.4T
06/19/16 fintail 2016 Mercedes E250 Bluetec 4matic (lease)
06/27/16 tifighter 2016 Kia Soul EV (lease)
07/04/16 au1994 2013 BMW 335i convertible 23k
07/09/16 breld 2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI 26k
07/13/16 mjfloyd1 2016 Audi RS7
07/19/16 qbrozen 2014 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI 27k
07/19/16 kyfdx 2013 Audi A3 TDI Premium 97k
07/22/16 benjaminh 2016 Honda Accord EX
07/22/16 graphicguy 1998 Ford Mustang Cobra 28k
07/22/16 henryn 2013 VW Passat TDI SE 65k
07/25/16 breld 2015 Audi SQ5 7k
07/30/16 xwesx 2013 VW Passat TDI SEL Premium 43k
08/08/16 28firefighter 2013 Audi A3 TDI Premium Plus 47k
08/11/16 js06gv 2016 Kia Optima SX Technology (lease)
08/13/16 mjfloyd1 2013 VW Passat TDI SE 20k
08/15/16 greg128 2016 Chevrolet Malibu Premier (lease)
08/20/16 michaell 2016 VW Jetta SE (lease)
08/29/16 corvette 2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI 75k
09/05/16 andres3 2016 Kia Optima LX turbo 1.6 (lease)
09/14/16 carnaught 2016 Mercedes C300
09/20/16 akangl 2016 Ford Fusion SE
10/27/16 roadburner 2016 BMW i3 REX (lease assumption)
11/09/16 tjc78 2917 Hyundai Elantra SE tech package (lease)
11/20/16 stevedebi 2017 Subaru Outback
11/25/16 breld 2015 BMW 428xi CPO 12k
12/05/16 qbrozen 2012 Infiniti EX35 Journey AWD 23k
12/05/16 suydam 2017 Chevrolet Volt Premier
12/15/16 nipponly 2014 Mini Cooper 2-door 19k
12/15/16 abacomike 2017 BMW 740i
12/22/16 breld 2017 MINI Clubman S All4
12/28/16 laurasdada’s GF 2016 BMW 328xi CPO 7k

Sandman6472 · January 2017

In the end, it'll come down to what the wife wants as it is her vehicle. Learned the hard way here also so all I can say is, "happy wife...happy life"! Both are great choices but think later on, you'll be happier having the extra room. We had three little ones within 3.5 years and there was sooooo much stuff to cart around, but the wife wouldn't drive anything bigger than a sedan. It was a tight squeeze but things fit in the Olds Cutlass we had during that period. Great vehicle for our needs but best of all, it was a gift from her folks who also covered the insurance. Lucky to have married and only child who had the best folks in the world, treated me better than my own but that's another story...lol!
Better to have more space than needed than not having quite enough.

The Sandman

Sandman6472 · January 2017

Heard from our son tonight, wedding will be October 15th in Chicago. Will be renting a vehicle and driving up since the wife will not fly. Thinking a minivan would work since the others will be flying up and we'll need the extra seating. Our oldest also announced her marriage plans at Thanksgiving so we'll need room for three more, think a minivan would work best for us. Hopefully my Hertz discount plus Gold Membership will net me a good deal. And since we'll be taking a couple weeks off, driving will work nicely.

The Sandman

Michaell · January 2017

sandman_6472 said:
Heard from our son tonight, wedding will be October 15th in Chicago. Will be renting a vehicle and driving up since the wife will not fly. Thinking a minivan would work since the others will be flying up and we'll need the extra seating. Our oldest also announced her marriage plans at Thanksgiving so we'll need room for three more, think a minivan would work best for us. Hopefully my Hertz discount plus Gold Membership will net me a good deal. And since we'll be taking a couple weeks off, driving will work nicely.

The Sandman

Is the oldest getting married in Florida, or some other location?

My sister is attending a wedding this fall in Virginia (she lives in So Cal) - she will be flying out.

tifighter · January 2017

Looking at that list, TDIgate really bumped things up a notch. Me thinks we'll be down in 17, unless we get some new members.

nippononly · January 2017

breld said:

xwesx said:
Wow; that's a really snazzy looking car, @breld! A world apart from its predecessor. But, is that an automatic transmission? Kinda hokey that they dress it up like a manual. Is her current Mini a manual or auto? I think a manual, on a car like that, would be icing on the cake! I'd never want to pull into the driveway....
A manual would be fun, but I think my wife is ready to give it up given the kind of commute we have.

We'll likely pick up a "fun" car with a manual to satisfy that urge. In fact, I wouldn't mind a current gen base MINI for that purpose. Or a WRX...or GTI...or Civic Si...or.....

I can say that the current-gen base Mini with a manual has reminded me how rewarding a real driver's car can be...and I have found myself unintentionally racing WRXs on numerous occasions now - I manage to keep pace up to about 85 mph, as they recover from their surprise, then they zoom past. ;-)

I will echo everyone else's congratulations on the new Clubman, and especially on the blue interior. Like so many others, I also am sick of black and gray interiors.

tifighter · January 2017

28firefighter said:

Thanks @tifighter! I'm already working with someone down in Ballard because I hadn't heard of that site before today, but I spent the better part of 2 hours going through the options and accessories today. There isn't a better resource out there for Subarus. The good news is, I have a deal someone else made with Carter in the last month so it should be pretty easy negotiating.

Just trying to get my hands on a Subaru ambassador coupon to sweeten the deal.

I bought a Forester from Joe almost 10 years ago. He does most of his deals via email or phone. He expected that you knew what you wanted (which is why the site is extensive). In exchange for knowing that and not taking a bunch of his time, he gets straight to the point on his lowest price with no games. Easy deal for an educated buyer; in and out quickly. I really appreciated his setup, and would go to him again if I were ever looking at another Subaru.

suydam · January 2017

There's a lot more variety on that list than I thought.

nippononly · January 2017

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:
the X1 was really, really nice. definitely quick enough too. But I really can't see it fitting into that budget. Definitely not if you want the nice safety goodies like BLIS.

I have zero interest in a power liftgate. Really don't like the way they work, and just seems like something else to break. I also never wanted power doors on the minivan either though. Maybe I am just too old school for modern day cars?

keyless entry/go, now that is a must. Once you have that, you can't go back.
My wife's 2011 X3 is a first year model. We bought it used, in 2013. So, get this: It has keyless start, but not keyless entry. :@ You have to pull out the fob, to click the button to get in the vehicle, but once you do that, it will start with just the push button.

Really, I'm not kidding.

So that's where Mini got that! I was so surprised that the Mini requires me to use the clicker to get in but will then start with the press of a button. That seems kind of half-assed. My Toyota has proximity open and push-button go, which is the way I like it and I will agree with another poster, once you have had that you can't go back...anything less is an annoyance.

Sandman6472 · January 2017

At first didn't want push button start but after driving so many vehicles at work that have it, really wish I had it! A shame that VW didn't put all the extras in the 2015 model that they added for 2016. Did complain about this but it fell on deaf ears at VW. Why come out with a brand new modl but wait a year to put the latest tech into it? Makes zero sense to me and feel that all consumers who purchased a 2015 have been short changed! Since I like the car so much, plan on keeping it longer than I thought I would but now very sorry I didn't lease because I'd turn in my current vehicle at lease end and either get a Tiguan or another Golf.

The Sandman

Sandman6472 · January 2017

The oldest's wedding will be a South Florida affair and hopefully small just like her brothers. We have almost no family and those that are still with us are pretty old so traveling would be an issue. My siblings have all passed as well as all our parents. They haven't told us what their plans are but my kid knows that we live on a limited budget and have never been big spenders, we owe nothing except the monthly overhead. So I know they will agree to a very small but very nice party after the ceremony. We've always taught the kids fiscal responsibility and to never waste money and they all also live their lives that way. We never go into debt, except when we bought the current house, and pay things off monthly always or we don't purchase. We live way below our means but live a very nice life.
One can have a very classy and beautiful wedding without spending mucho bucks. I know between her and my wife, the wedding will be beautiful!

The Sandman

Sandman6472 · January 2017

Saw a new 2017 Encore on the road yesterday in a light color and it looked beautiful, a real looker! I know I could be very happy driving one as my d d, especially since they updated the interior beautifully. From pics I've seen, the infotainment center is now nicely integrated into the dash with the screen not so high up. I particularly like the new front and rear treatments and the best thing is they kept the smallish size, a must have for me. It will definitely be on my short list the next time I look for a vehicle. Buick really did a fantastic job with this new model!

The Sandman

graphicguy · January 2017

Corvette....thanks for compiling the list. Looks fairy exhaustive to me.

suydam · January 2017

Re push button start. It's funny how you get used to certain features. My Accord had it, the Encore doesn't. I really love the feature and was very disappointed that the Encore only had keyless entry. Then we sold the Accord and I got used to using the key fob again on the Encore and it became second nature again. Now we have the Volt, which has push button start. At first I kept getting the key fob out without thinking about it. So I had to get used to push button start again. I really like it especially when it's raining or I'm carrying a lot of things. Fortunately most cars have it now as standard.

qbrozen · January 2017

BTW, C&D just did a comparo of the Volt vs the Prius Prime. The Volt absolutely crushed it. Not even close. Something like a 34-point difference.

stickguy · January 2017

Got me interested in the Volt.

And MT compared the Bolt vs Tesla. I think the bolt won. Even had better range.

suydam · January 2017

I've had the Volt a month now. The only time I use gas is on trips out of town. In December that was just once so I've used 3 gallons of gas so far. It's also a great driving car. Since we are retired we don't have daily commutes. We charge it 2-3 times a week.

ab348 · January 2017

nippononly said:

So that's where Mini got that! I was so surprised that the Mini requires me to use the clicker to get in but will then start with the press of a button. That seems kind of half-assed. My Toyota has proximity open and push-button go, which is the way I like it and I will agree with another poster, once you have had that you can't go back...anything less is an annoyance.

My 2014 ATS is like that. Use the fob button to unlock the door or trunk but once inside it can stay in your pocket and you get pushbutton start/stop. In 2014 you had to go up a model level to get full keyless I think. I believe that changed the next model year.

Sandman6472 · January 2017

Will need to give the Volt and Bolt a look before I purchase my next vehicle. For my commute, the electric motor could work since it's a 58 mile round trip right now. Unfortunately, there are hardly any charging stations here in South Florida so would need to do from our garage nightly. Luckily I only work every other day, 3 days per week. Really do like the new Cruze and these both seem like similar vehicles.
Also, really really like the new Encore. GM is finally making a few vehicles I might actually buy! Our last domestic GM was back in 1985, an Olds Cutlass.

The Sandman

suydam · January 2017

Unless you count the Pontiac Vibe, which I bought because it's REALLY a Toyota, these are the first GM vehicles we've ever owned. They do seem to be on the cutting edge right now.

tjc78 · January 2017

I vowed never to own a GM after the disaster my 1998 Olds 88 was but I came back and have been perfectly happy with my 2012 LaCrosse and it's replacement 2015 Enclave.

andres3 · January 2017

breld said:
@andres3 - I think you shoukd be the one getting the Alltrack!

I sat in one yesterday when I met up with @Michaell for lunch (he was getting service done in his Jetta). It is a nice overall package, with some attractive interior accents unique to the alltrack. And of course, the DSG is a nice addition if you prefer it, which I know you do.

I thought the All-Track was getting a boring 6-speed slushbox, or a manual option (my wife won't take that). Still, not having DSG isn't a deal-breaker if the 6-speed is a good performing unit. Now you got me wanting to go to the VW dealer during my lunch break....

breld · January 2017

andres3 said:

breld said:
@andres3 - I think you shoukd be the one getting the Alltrack!

I sat in one yesterday when I met up with @Michaell for lunch (he was getting service done in his Jetta). It is a nice overall package, with some attractive interior accents unique to the alltrack. And of course, the DSG is a nice addition if you prefer it, which I know you do.
I thought the All-Track was getting a boring 6-speed slushbox, or a manual option (my wife won't take that). Still, not having DSG isn't a deal-breaker if the 6-speed is a good performing unit. Now you got me wanting to go to the VW dealer during my lunch break....

We anxiously await your report back.

andres3 · January 2017

tjc78 said:
I vowed never to own a GM after the disaster my 1998 Olds 88 was but I came back and have been perfectly happy with my 2012 LaCrosse and it's replacement 2015 Enclave.

Your ban only lasted about a dozen years at most; not very long at all. Either you forget fast, or forgive quickly.

I would consider owning a Pontiac Vibe or Geo Prism to be the equivalent of having owned a Toyota.

stickguy · January 2017

the only car I ever had that could qualify as ban worthy was the Voyager. But at this point, it is the current state of FC and their products that keeps me from considering them.

stever · January 2017

It's Volvos for me. 35 odd years now.

ab348 · January 2017

andres3 said:

I would consider owning a Pontiac Vibe or Geo Prism to be the equivalent of having owned a Toyota.

I would consider it to be the equivalent of being put into jail.

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