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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    kyfdx said:

    I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

    You owe a big THANKS to the system of checks and balances :p
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,296
    So what was the official punch total/list for 2016?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,866
    need to count the late ballots to make sure. Breld may have sneaked in a Paceman punch at 11:45.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Probably heard all the muttering from the viewer's gallery.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,485
    edited January 2017
    kyfdx said:

    I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

    Isn't there a capability to override the veto?




    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Have to ask the Kitchen Cabinet.

    And that's what would have to be remodeled, lol.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,938
    kyfdx said:
    I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.
    For the money, it is likely I would have bought first and asked forgiveness later.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,866
    My motto has always been "it is easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission". And much more fun.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,330
    Alrighty, so I rented an X1 today from the BMW car share service here in Seattle (ReachNow) - figured a good long test drive was in order and it would be easier to do on our own than with a sales person. Cost us $15 for 45 minutes of driving, which isn't bad. We were also able to pull it into our very tight driveway and load it up with some stuff to see how it fared.

    Features wise, I'd call the X1s they have as part of the fleet mid-range. They come with the Premium Package, Luxury Package, Park Assist and Navigation for Business (smaller screen). The car we drove did not have the bigger HD infotainment screen, BLIS, or any of the other safety nannies, but it was equipped enough to give us a good sense for what it would be like. To get a 2016 leftover loaded up comparably to the Forester we drove, the MSRP would be right around $46k. Not cheap, to say the least.

    Aesthetically, this is a good looking car inside and out. The outside is very polished and clearly reflects BMWs current X line model design - in fact, parked right behind it on the street was a BMW X5 (not a part of the car share), and I could barely tell them apart aside from size. Inside, the interior is fairly basic but very effectively uses the space. My first impression when I got in the drivers seat is that it is very narrow inside, and I'm not a big guy by any stretch. I'm not sure if it was just poor placement of the arm rest on the drivers door, but I did not have nearly as much knee room as I would like. The infotainment system uses BMWs iDrive system, which I don't love or hate - I find it effective enough, if not a bit complicated. The interior had a lot of soft touch plastics, but also a lot more hard plastic than I expected in a $46k car, which I expect also contributed to the amount of rattling I heard (more on that below).

    I was the first to drive, and there is no other way to say this - it beats the snot out of the Forester XT for all around driving capability. Acceleration, cornering, steering is all absolutely phenomenal for a small SUV - it handles not unlike my GTI, if not a bit more refined and softer. BMW has done an excellent job with the 4 cylinder 28i engine. My opinion is that if nothing else counted, the X1 would win hands down. My wife on the other hand said it drove nicely but that she also liked how the Forester drove a lot too.

    There were a couple other disappointments as well. First, the cargo area although best-in-class is functionally considerably smaller than the other cars we've considered. I think it would be adequate, but not nearly as flexible. I believe the X1 has 27 cubic inches of cargo capacity with the rear seat up vs. the Forester's 34.4 cubic inches. However the Forester also has a larger hatch opening and more height to stack things, which makes a difference. Second, the X1 had 688 miles on it and was already rattling like crazy from the dash, the door panels and the rear hatch. That has been my #1 complaint about the Escape and does not bode well.

    I'm not taking it off the list just yet, but as far as my wife is concerned, she doesn't see the point.

    In order for this to work, we would need to find a leftover 2016 while they're still supporting them. Assuming we did (and could make arrangements for the Escape), it would be about $3500 upfront and $382/month including tax. Of that $3500, we'd get $2800 of it back at the end of the lease as they'd be multiple security deposits. A good deal given the price of the car, but still not cheap and requires a bit more legwork. Comparatively, the Forester would be about $340/month including tax with nothing except first month and tags due at signing.

    My wife's perspective is that it isn't worth the extra legwork, upfront money (even if it is returned at the end), and increased monthly payment.

    I'm trying not to be blinded by the driving dynamics, but it is difficult...
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i, 2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,081
    As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,330
    suydam said:

    As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.

    I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i, 2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen
  • kyfdxkyfdx Everywhere, USAPosts: 126,124

    kyfdx said:

    I was close.. the House and Senate advanced a bill to buy that '97 Range Rover. But, it was vetoed by the Executive Branch.

    Isn't there a capability to override the veto?




    I quit my job, two months ago. Might not be the best time for a floor debate. ;)

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 117,010

    suydam said:

    As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.

    I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
    If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision.

    And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,330
    Michaell said:

    suydam said:

    As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.

    I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
    If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision.

    And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.
    Interestingly enough, the dealers have said that not only do they have no problem ordering them, but can actually offer more competitive pricing on them. Without any negotiating, I've been getting offers of $1000 under invoice, which seems crazy.

    We have 5 payments left on the Escape and factory orders can take anywhere from 3-4 months to deliver, so I'm trying to figure out when we need to get this locked down.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i, 2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,389
    corvette said:

    I think you win, laurasdada. I'm helping nurse my GF after she had her gallbladder removed yesterday. It wasn't nearly as painless for her as nearly every other person we know who has had the same laproscopic surgery. Hope our next New Year's is better!

    Sorry, Vette. I hope she's doing ok, you had a decent NYE. I had my gall bladder removed laproscopically a few years ago, was on a plane for Vegas three days later!

    Nice NYE here, dinner on the canal in Sandwich, simple night of cards with the relatives (and, omg, desserts-o-rama!), midnight and sleep shortly thereafter.

    Hope everyone had a nice, safe NYE!

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 117,010

    Michaell said:

    suydam said:

    As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.

    I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
    If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision.

    And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.
    Interestingly enough, the dealers have said that not only do they have no problem ordering them, but can actually offer more competitive pricing on them. Without any negotiating, I've been getting offers of $1000 under invoice, which seems crazy.

    We have 5 payments left on the Escape and factory orders can take anywhere from 3-4 months to deliver, so I'm trying to figure out when we need to get this locked down.
    Are the Foresters built in Japan or Indiana?

    I couldn't get anywhere near invoice on our Outback 2 years ago.

    I'd wait about 6 weeks before placing the order - better to have the car there right when the lease on the Escape is done. Not sure that the dealer will want to sit on an ordered car for a few weeks (or longer), and you probably don't want to have any leftover charges on the Escape lease to roll over to the Forester.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,866
    not sure about Ford, but the VW dealer did say that if we needed the Jetta slightly longer, we could extend for a short time (a month or 2?) Not sure of how that works, but I think just make the same payment. Might take them up on that, depending on what the Princess is doing right after graduation. Hopefully working already, so if so and she needs the car for commuting, might be worth extending to give some more time for her to get a replacement (in her name, on her dime!).

    As to the X1, the one I drove was loaded. Including the sports seats. Gotta have those! which is going to be real tough on a left over. I don't recall any rattles, but it was a short drive. I did love the driving dynamics. and plenty big enough for me.

    I never drove an XT Forester. Not sure I even drove a base engine? Rode in them with my SIL when she test drove (ended up buying one, and likes it). I'm sure the extra HP is nice. Definitely more functional, having a squared off back end.

    1K below invoice is good. I can get insider VIP exec pricing, and I think that is 2% below (so on a 30k car, about $600). Guess it pays to haggle first. I plan to look at them next year, and the new Imprezza.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,330
    Michaell said:
    As long as you don't hate the Forester's handling (I had a '99 and it drove very nicely if a bit underpowered) you'll probably like it fine. If there's any aspect you really dislike, however, it won't improve with time (same goes for rattles and squeaks). I thought I could deal with my Pontiac Vibe's basic functionality and just regard it as the practical car. I was wrong. Everything that bugged me about it got worse, not better. I am so much happier with the Encore -- a small functional vehicle that I actually enjoy driving.
    I definitely do not hate it! The X1 is just more refined, whereas the Forester feels a bit bigger and loose in the corners. Also as my wife so astutely pointed out, this is her car, not mine...
    If it's her car, it's ultimately her decision. And, despite the scarcity of the XT's, I think you'll be able to find one easier than a leftover 2016 X1 with the right mix of equipment you want. Inventory on any 2016 BMW is thinning quickly.
    Interestingly enough, the dealers have said that not only do they have no problem ordering them, but can actually offer more competitive pricing on them. Without any negotiating, I've been getting offers of $1000 under invoice, which seems crazy. We have 5 payments left on the Escape and factory orders can take anywhere from 3-4 months to deliver, so I'm trying to figure out when we need to get this locked down.
    Are the Foresters built in Japan or Indiana? I couldn't get anywhere near invoice on our Outback 2 years ago. I'd wait about 6 weeks before placing the order - better to have the car there right when the lease on the Escape is done. Not sure that the dealer will want to sit on an ordered car for a few weeks (or longer), and you probably don't want to have any leftover charges on the Escape lease to roll over to the Forester.
    Japan. 

    My understanding is that each dealer has to take a certain allotment of vehicles and are perfectly happy to factory order and know that car is going out the door immediately.  I could be wrong though. 

    I checked pricing from Heuberger Subaru in CO Springs to get a baseline idea of what high volume dealers are offering, and they offered me $1400 under invoice. Add back the $400 delivery and handling and you're at $1000 under invoice. 
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i, 2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited January 2017
    Invoice on a '17 Limited is ~6% back of MSRP.

    $1,000 off of that ($27,196) would be almost 10% off MSRP ($30,070). My numbers include the $875 destination btw.

    Looks like supply and demand have leveled - TMV is close to invoice. Don't think that was true a year ago.

    Just looked at inventory in Ohio and theirs are J VINs.
  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,330
    stickguy said:
    not sure about Ford, but the VW dealer did say that if we needed the Jetta slightly longer, we could extend for a short time (a month or 2?) Not sure of how that works, but I think just make the same payment. Might take them up on that, depending on what the Princess is doing right after graduation. Hopefully working already, so if so and she needs the car for commuting, might be worth extending to give some more time for her to get a replacement (in her name, on her dime!). As to the X1, the one I drove was loaded. Including the sports seats. Gotta have those! which is going to be real tough on a left over. I don't recall any rattles, but it was a short drive. I did love the driving dynamics. and plenty big enough for me. I never drove an XT Forester. Not sure I even drove a base engine? Rode in them with my SIL when she test drove (ended up buying one, and likes it). I'm sure the extra HP is nice. Definitely more functional, having a squared off back end. 1K below invoice is good. I can get insider VIP exec pricing, and I think that is 2% below (so on a 30k car, about $600). Guess it pays to haggle first. I plan to look at them next year, and the new Imprezza.
    I do not want the Escape any longer than necessary. 

    If it were my car, I think I would take the X1.  But wife put the stroller and a few baby things we've gotten already and it was tight without removing the shelf in the back (which is what they have instead of a sliding cover).
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i, 2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,866
    oh, for sure, she makes the final call if it is her DD. I learned that lesson the hard way! And not like a Sube limited with the turbo is any kind of penalty box. I could live with one of them. Even better if you could get it with a stick shift!

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 117,010
    I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions. Wasn't thrilled with the 2.5i + CVT; the turbo engine has to make it better in almost every way, except fuel economy.

    You think you can get a local dealer to match the Heuberger pricing? You might be coming out here for your next car, just like @cdnpinhead is later this month.

    @breld and I are the official Colorado welcoming committee.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2016 VW Jetta 1.4T SE / 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,866
    the base motor is probably better at sea level. The Turbo (at least per the EPA) does take a major hit at mileage. Plus, requires premium (I have no desire to do that again). I think for me, a 2.5 is plenty spunky. Can even get a premium with a 6 speed stick, as long as you don't want any options, because you can't get them (it is mostly the eyesight stuff, though also I think the all season package).

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 5,330
    Michaell said:
    I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions. Wasn't thrilled with the 2.5i + CVT; the turbo engine has to make it better in almost every way, except fuel economy. You think you can get a local dealer to match the Heuberger pricing? You might be coming out here for your next car, just like @cdnpinhead is later this month. @breld and I are the official Colorado welcoming committee.
    We have at least 7 Subaru dealers in the Greater Seattle/Tacoma area, so I'm cautiously optimistic I can do it - or at least close enough to offset what my travel would be. 

    I really do want to make it to Colorado one of these days. Was last there 6 years ago for my BIL's wedding in Manitou Springs. 
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2016 BMW X1 xDrive28i, 2002 Saab 9-3 Viggen
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited January 2017
    Michaell said:

    I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions.

    When it came time to trade in her '05 Forester last year, my sister "downsized" from another Subaru wagon to the "crossover".

    Edmunds now calls it the Forester SUV and the Outback is an SUV now too. Back in '05 they were both called wagons.
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,803


    Michaell said:

    I was amazed at how big the Forester felt when I had one as a loaner, despite the exterior dimensions. Wasn't thrilled with the 2.5i + CVT; the turbo engine has to make it better in almost every way, except fuel economy.

    You think you can get a local dealer to match the Heuberger pricing? You might be coming out here for your next car, just like @cdnpinhead is later this month.

    @breld and I are the official Colorado welcoming committee.

    We have at least 7 Subaru dealers in the Greater Seattle/Tacoma area, so I'm cautiously optimistic I can do it - or at least close enough to offset what my travel would be. 

    I really do want to make it to Colorado one of these days. Was last there 6 years ago for my BIL's wedding in Manitou Springs. 

    The BMW sounds like a great driving vehicle, rattles and squeaks, not so. Don't discount the need for room to carry around half your house to take care of baby needs! We went from my wife's Passat that she loved to a Honda Odyssey, which we were pleasantly surprised by how much we would enjoy it. That was some years ago before these attractive smaller SUV like became available.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,296
    You've heard me preach time & again how you DO NOT want the base 2.5i engine. My sister has a Turbo Forester. I drove it once and the turbo motor/CVT combination gives the car plenty of giddy-up. It's hard to compare anything to the BMW driving experience once you drive the BMW.

    FWIW, we did just fine with a 2007 X3 with one child, then 2. You'll quickly realize the cargo shelf or tonneau cover will sit in the garage & rot. Kid stuff (especially the 1st one takes up A LOT of room). "Honey, I know we are just going for a short trip to the mall, but we NEED to bring the regular & the jogging stroller, plus the high chair, over packed diaper bag..."

    BTW, I highly recommend the CITY MINI brand strollers. They are light, very sturdy, well constructed, & fold almost completely flat.

    You might also want to look into aftermarket parts for the Forester. Maybe some WRX suspension bits will bolt on. I had the dealer install a 19 mm rear sway bar from the Outback on my Legacy which came with a 16 mm rear swamy bar. It makes a huge difference. The Turbo Forester is a nice package. It's not cheap, but you don't have to jump through hoops like you will to get it to fit in your budget like the X1.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2015 Infiniti Q40 AWD, 2017 Honda Pilot Touring AWD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,938
    edited January 2017
    Soooo...why not an X3?

    CPO would probably be cheaper than a new Forester.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Everywhere, USAPosts: 126,124
    My wife would love a new car. You can buy her 2011 X3, with only 82K miles! B)

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,803
    not sure about Ford, but the VW dealer did say that if we needed the Jetta slightly longer, we could extend for a short time (a month or 2?) Not sure of how that works, but I think just make the same payment. Might take them up on that, depending

    Unless something has changed, Honda Finance will allow you to extend the lease. All you have to do is call them and they send you a form to fill out. It is easy.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

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