Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    It's quiet and seems to last well, and I can get a 5W-40, which seems to work best in one of my vehicles. My Mechanic also recommends it. Says that He's seen very clean engines if this is used correctly and consistently.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I suspect Mobil will be losing a lot of their faithful customers with this latest move of theirs to jack the price of their syn up even higher. I'd like to see the bottom fall out of the entire synthetic market, forcing the prices down. I'd like to know what jackass (or jackasses) decided that syn is worth 5 times as much as dino. Why does the market still support these ridiculous prices? With the quality gap between dinos and syns closing, so should the price gap. While dinos continue to improve, the price stays about the same, yet syns have improved very little, and their prices continue to rise. Makes no $.00. I'll just snicker and jingle my change as I continue to use my $1 per quart oil.
  • jskhojskho Member Posts: 107
    It now meets API SL. I bought a case of SL 10W30 last week.
  • yooper53yooper53 Member Posts: 286
    I agree. Last walmart price I saw (recently) was $4.77 per. Its crazy. When I use my last syn, that's it. I will continue to use syn in my snowblower however. I mean it starts only in winter temps and goes to full throttle and only uses 26 oz. I believe.
    adc100...2.0L Pro No way to get the filter from the top. :o(
  • rocky5656rocky5656 Member Posts: 34
    I am trying the Maxlife in my 89 Camry V6 for the last two oil changes (current engine mileage is 313,000 km's.)

    Oil seepage from the valve cover seals has slowed to a crawl from leaving drops on the garage floor previously. Thought I would try this oil before changing the gaskets, back cover is a dog to get at.

    Seems to run a little quieter than with the Castrol I used to use, with a Moly boost for boundary lubrication. I'll still use the Moly, but will cut it back a smidge. Lots of power, passed some cars on highway this weekend at 160 kph no problem! (although this 24 valve 4 cam car always did breath nicely!)

    Surprisingly, fuel mileage has rebounded upwards back to younger engine days (about 35mpg at speeds of 110km/hour., engine rpm about 2500.)

    Seems to me to be worth the extra money so far.

    I've read from bobistheoilguy that SL oils are not as good as SJ, due to cutbacks on antifriction additives, for the new oils to meet some emision standards, or to help extend catalytic converter life. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Cheers, Rocky5656
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    That's the first time I've heard anything like that about the SL's. All I've been hearing is how much BETTER they are.

    I like the fact that Maxlife has an anitwear package built in. Valvoline emailed me the spec sheet on this stuff today. The numbers are pretty impressive.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    please go to the 'which major brand of gas is best' board and post what you pay for gas in your area.

    Thanks
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Like, 5 years ago.

    kinley "Report Your Local Gas Prices Here" Mar 29, 2001 10:24am
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    I've been too busy to browse that far back. I've been invaded here in NYC by the worst by-product of inbreeding, ATLANTA SPORTS FANS. LOL
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    You have no idea how good you've got it. When the Mets come to town all the locals panic while the New Yawkaz terrorize the populace. At least Southerners have a style and grace about them. Unless they're wearing camoflague and Dale Earnhardt hats.

    Enjoy the series,

    Bretfraz in Atlanta (really!)
  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    [quote] "I've read from bobistheoilguy that SL oils are not as good as SJ, due to cutbacks on antifriction additives, for the new oils to meet some emision standards, or to help extend catalytic converter life. Correct me if I'm wrong"[/quote]

    That is incorrect. I have never stated that the SL oils are less in the antiwear/friction additives. The last time antiwear additives were reduced was from the move from SH to SJ.

    The main difference in SJ to SL is the base stock quality improvements which makes in my opinion the SL a better quality lube.

    Where you might have gotten confused is where the new proposed GF-4 oils (next step up on the api scale), is planning on reducing the antiwear additives by 50% in comparision to the current SL version. This new GF-4 proposed has now been put on hold as they are having problems in making it backward compatible with the older oils and contrevsory is that manufactures are considering makeing their own specialize formulations as they are doing with their current transmissions.

    On my forums, I have all these articles posted so you may read them.

    bob
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    as I knew he thought SL the best oil to date, but he's done a much better job of sticking up for himself.


    Let me again tout his forum as a place where you can post very narrow topics on lubrication that would (rightly) be locked down on Edmunds. Good work Bob, your new venue is a huge improvement on the old one and you supply just the right amount of knowledgable moderating.


    http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

  • rocky5656rocky5656 Member Posts: 34
    Sorry, Bobistheoilguy, for the misinfo.
    Yours, Rocky5656
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    If buying lots of GF-3 version SL oil is smart, then I must be a genius! I have stockpiled quite a batch-- in fact, it is getting hard to find places in the garage...
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Something to think about. Most of the bottles of SL also say that they meet or exceed the previous ratings. Logic would dictate that the SL's therefore have to be at least as good as any of the oils meeting the previous ratings.

    Did I read that post right? The GF-4 is supposed to have LESS anitwear properties? OK, I'll bite. Why would anyone want to develop a new grade of oil that's inferior to what's already available? Makes about as much sense as a left handed, metric cresent wrench!
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    less wear or more mileage. CAFE standards tilting the scales for better mileage. Doesn't mean the oil is necessarily inferior, but addresses a different and conflicting priority.

    bretfraz, I can never enjoy Los Bravos beating the Mets. And besides, nobody is "from" Atlanta, people just live there!
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    is kinder to cat. converters. Manufacturers care more about paying for emissions related repairs than whether your car lasts 250K rather than 200.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Malachy72

    I doubt if we will have a choice. Normally, when oil is developed to a new standard, that's the only way it's available. Right now the standard rating is GF-3 or SL, and that's the only rating oil is available in. You can no longer buy SJ rated oil (unless you happen to find some that's been sitting around for a while), which considering the SL's, that's a good thing. If/when the GF-4 is developed, what are the chances GF-3/SL will still be available?

    What I'd like to know is who the he11 buys oil in the interest of prolonging the life of their cataletic converters? Hello, Mcfly, is anybody in there? Oil is the life blood of the engine, not the exhaust system! To he11 with the converters. If this is what the GF-4 is all about, I'll be the loudest supporter to keep the GF-3's available.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    we won't have a choice. And that's democracy.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Really, I thought that was socialism?
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    It's what you get when you vote for big government-- over regulation and stifling financial hardship.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    What does all this have to do with the industry deciding to develop an oil that's better for the cataletic converters than it is for the engines? The bottom line is that it makes no sense.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #4174

    Let's put it another way, if a manufacturer warrants an engine for 3 yrs/36,000 miles, andwarrants cat converters for 8 yrs/80,000 miles, which are they on the hook longer for?
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    the poles of converter longevity and engine longevity.

    SL oil is better for the engine than SJ, but SJ was worse than SH.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    What's more expensive to repair/replace, an engine or a cat? A cat is just an expensive muffler in the scheme of things, so why worry about extending their life?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #4177

    Which is the manufacturer's position EXACTLY !

    RE: 4175

    If you answer the question, perhaps it will be clearer?
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    They are not looking to reduce warranty claims on converters, the want to use smaller, cheaper converters. That's my theory anyway. If they know a GF-4 oil will not "pollute" the converter material as quickly, they can probably put a smaller brick in the converter and safely get it through the 80K emissions warranty.

    Save $10/car on the smaller brick and it adds up to some real money selling close to a million cars/year.

    Just another theory to ponder.

    Of course, these decisions are being made by the same folks who said, "just lower the tire pressure" instead of redesigning the suspension in the Explorer" for example ;)

    TB
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    So they save $10 a car on converters, then they lose that money because every hundredth car launches an engine because of the $hitty oil, and they have to replace it. Doesn't sound like very good business smarts to me.
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    I don't remember anyone saying anything about business smarts...maybe business cheaps though...
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    engine would fail during the warranty period. More bucks for dealer shops repairing/replacing engines.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    As someone who owns a vehicle that has had the catalytic converters replaced TWICE in the first 70,000 miles, I can appreciate the desire to make a more converter-friendly oil. I'm not saying it will be 'better' or more preferable overall vs. the SL oils, but I understand the thought process.

    tboner seems to have hit the nail on the head. The vehicle manufacturers don't want the converters to last longer; they simply want the converters to last the same amount of time but at a lower cost.

    My last catalytic converter replacement would have been a $1,400 repair had I not known about the 80,000 mile warranty.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    $1400-- That is so obscene that I can't fathom the depravity of it...
  • yooper53yooper53 Member Posts: 286
    Roger that!
  • rocky5656rocky5656 Member Posts: 34
    I am wondering then, would synthetic oils for engines also be updated along with the dino oil, when things move along to GF-4? (hey, I don't even know what GF-4 means :)).

    I'm just a mechanic that sees the junk that GM, Ford, and Chrysler allows people to buy as dependable transportation. The best lubricant in the world won't prevent these engines from launching "way" before they should.

    Was reading on the "Car Connection" how 1 columnist was lamenting how Toyota/Lexus is now selling more cars than Ford/Lincoln in North America. Well golly what do you expect when the last Ford you owned had everything wrong with it from sudden fuel injector failure, to the radio turning on and off when it felt like it, to the rear wiper going berserk after a car wash. to all the exhaust manifold studs breaking off by themselves, no rear heater fan at times, leaky rads, etc all before 80,000 miles.

    I will get to GM/Chrysler another time.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    There's a 'main' cat and 2 pre-cats, and replacing them with new units involves a LOT of labor. Fortunately it was covered under the 8yr/80k mile emissions warranty. I'm glad the car had low miles when I bought it...
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    I was browsing the Internet and found another forum about the move up to GL-4. The Feds have added a regulation that requires the emissions system, including the CAT Converter to be warranted completely up to 120,000 miles.

    My personal view on that issue is that they should set up a separate standard for the time being, and not make the oils backwards compatible, or wait until the issue is thoroughly tested.

    One reason they listed was that they didn't want 2 different kinds of oil -- but wait they already have that, it's called high mileage oil.
  • opera_house_wkopera_house_wk Member Posts: 326
    The Fed wants it so that some bozo doesn't put "old standard" oil into a new car and they can't change the fill hole like they did with gas tanks. Remember that most states do not have emissions testing and those that have it do not have it in every county. That being the case, the feds want to control what goes into the car. Think of all the older cars that burn a quart every 3K and what that is doing to the cat converters.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    that's got a ton more ZDDP than any oil. Haven't used the stuff on anything but old beaters in the past fifteen years, but if only GF4 oil is available, I might just start.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Great find! Can you give us the path to that discussion? I favor the added warranty on that troublesome batch of emissions equipage.

    I used STP recently as part of an oil change on my 40K Pathfinder. It sure is mechanically quieter. I did it only to increase the antiwear character of the engine lube.
  • smily1smily1 Member Posts: 104
    What STP are you talking about? I sure would like to have oil with zinc and moly. Does Maxlife have the best antiwear additive package for dino? I currently use Mobil 1 for my newer cars and dont plan to change until I run out of the tri-syn, then I will reassess.

    Q-Are the manufacturers putting "For High Miles" on the front of the label to discourage new car owners from using it even though its better for the motor (bad for cat)?

    Has anyone tested the new mobil 1 supersyn?

    What synthetic oil, sj, sl...should I look for that would have a good additive package (zinc and moly...)?

    Sorry for so many questions. I have been following this thread for some time now but get lost sometimes.

    Thanks.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ....would develop an oil based on what the auto industry wants. They just build the cars, the consumers are the ones who have to pay to purchase and maintain them. Oil should be developed based on what WE want. It sounds to me like the auto industry is too stinkin' cheap to get off their dead a$$es and design cataletic converters that will last while using the type of oil that's BEST FOR YOUR ENGINE! Developing an oil with more priority on the converters than the engine is completely asinine! Sounds like we need to ban together and boycott this bullcrap!
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I'm talking about STP Oil Treatment. It has ZDDP in it, which is a good antiwear chemical. The now-discontinued Oil Extender has ZDDP and Moly. I'm not familiar with Maxlife. What is it? Is that the Valvoline high mile oil, or some such?
    I presume the "for high miles" designation to be an attempt to justify elevated pricing.
    There are a number of people who post here that seem to think Mobil 1 is something special. I'll bet one of them will address your question on that product.
    You questioned about which product has a good, or perhaps the best, additive package. That is tough! Adding STP or other products indicates that the manufacturers are not pleasing us with the additive packages, eh? I personally would say that Redline Oil has as good a package as exists at this time, but the cost of the oil is quite high. SL is the best oil available at present (petroleum base) and that is partly due to the homogeneity afforded by hydrocracking. The non-chemists in this thread will tell you that the homogeneity produced by synthesis is better, and they ignore that the end product is the same. See? There are no answers. That is why we share opinions and take up positions...etc. >:o]
  • smily1smily1 Member Posts: 104
    I was referring to the Valvolene Maxlife.

    I tend to believe the PAO based stock is better than the hydrocracked but if there isnt a good antiwear package then its all just trash.

    I think I will look into the STP.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Doesn't it pi$$ anyone else off in here that the oil companies are allowing the auto makers tell them what type of oil to produce? It does me!
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    As long as there is STP/CD2/Bar's seal sweller and tequila we can pretty much make what we need.
    Even if they only make 0 wt oils, we can just add some 90 wt here, some sticky goo there, some cleany goo over there and a slug of ol'sweller ...finish off with a couple of hits off the cactus squeezins for r'selves,,,modify the recipe just a tad towards better and like grandma says
    "y'all come get her, she's done!!!"
    As much as we all keep up with things on these posts here we will start learning anything fast enough, motors can only take so much and we all know not to buy anything new until it has had a couple years to be road tested by other folks right?
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    not the oil companies nor the auto manufacturers that puts these machinations in motion. That's why there is no whining about it here. This is what the populace wants the "BIG GOVERNMENT" to do for them! Ain't that so, fleetwood?
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I guess that means GF-5 will be in development soon after the GF-4 is released. Some genius will figure out that the current standard of oils aren't as "door hinge friendly" as they need to be.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I'm still lookin' for my lost shaker of salt, zr2rando!
    Damn straight, malachy72!
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    This topic sure has died out! It used to be the most active one in here. Has anyone done an analysis on any of the SL dinos yet? I don't have enough miles on my oil yet to do an analysis, but as soon as I do, I plan to do one.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    is because so many people have moved over to the Bobistheoilguy forum.
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