Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97 · May 2017

bwia said:
imid, thanks for doing the research and thanks for sharing. I agree with the findings of the research but would never have guessed the dramatic repair costs today's cars. According to the attachment the report was released in 2007. Ten years later I wonder if the trend still holds.

Since you have distinguished yourself as the dean of automotive history here at Edmunds I/we bestow upon you the Doctor of Automotive History, honoris causa

I had searched different days for something to back up my memory. I just happened to use a different set of search words and found this article today.

imidazol97 · May 2017

driver100 said:
Imid....good research and does beg the question....is appearance more important than functionality?

I guess the overhang could have allowed for more room for hydraulic or spring loaded bumpers ???????

I recall some of the cars I had in that era had a shock absorber on each mount for the bumper. Impact compressed the hydraulic shock. Occasionally they didn't pop back out after impact without some help.

"...appearance ... functionality?" And the answer is yes.

roadburner · May 2017

imidazol97 said:
When discussing the extended front ends on some cars from the 80s era, I believed I recalled that the designs were judged based on the amount of damage in low speed collisions as a way to judge the efficacy of the bumper/ front end design. Others didn't recall that. But I found an article where a lot of discussion alludes to that being the case until a rewrite of the requirements. The article mentions the varying costs and goes into the problem is varying bumper heights making bumper design standards moot when a car hits a bumper on an SUV, e.g..

Select parts:

"Old versus new bumper tests: The Institute began conducting low-speed crash tests at 5 mph into a flat barrier in 1969. These tests led to the first federal bumper rules for cars, which required the bumpers to resist damage in impacts up to 5 mph. These requirements eventually were rolled back by the Reagan Administration in 1982. B

"Vintage Ford shows how: Bumpers used to do a better job of resisting damage in
minor impacts. Under federal requirements that were in effect until 1982, car
bumpers had to keep damage away from vehicle safety equipment and sheet metal
parts in collisions at speeds up to 5 mph. Even damage to the bumpers themselves
was limited. But since 1982 the test speed under the federal standard
has been cut in half. It’s now 2.5 mph, and unlimited damage is allowed to
vehicles’ bumper systems.
To demonstrate how this rollback has affected bumper performance, the Institute
got a 1981 Ford Escort, which met the old requirements, and put it through
ó PAGE 7 ó Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
a new battery of front and rear bumper tests. Comparison of this car’s performance
with those of new cars is dramatic.
For one thing, the bumpers on the Escort extend out from the car body to help
keep the headlights, grille, and sheet metal away from the energy of impacts.
Behind the bumper bar, the Escort has components that work like shock absorbers
to dissipate the energy of an impact before it can damage the car
body — and these components can absorb energy again in subsequent collisions,
while the crushable energy absorbers that are components of most modern car
bumpers can’t. They have to be replaced after each minor impact.
“The Escort aced the 3 mph corner tests with zero damage,” Lund says. “In
the full-front test at 6 mph, the $86 worth of damage was limited to the
bumper itself. There was more damage in the full-rear test but still only
$383. This is much lower than for the 17 new cars we tested. The best performer
among the new cars sustained 10 times as much damage as the Escort
in the same 4 tests.”

Note the constant reference to the actual cost of the repair due to damage in low speed impacts for various designs.

For those who made it here beyond 150 words, here's the full length article:
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/030107_bumper_crash_tests_report.pdf

Here's the Reader's Digest edition of what happened on the regulatory side. When the US ~~Reichsmarschall~~- Department of Transportation was intent on regulating everything(including the maximum speed shown on speedometers) a regulation was promulgated by NHTSA that required that bumpers be set at a specific height and that they prevent ANY damage to the vehicle in a 5 mph accident. That regulation was challenged in Federal Court and said Court ruled that while NHTSA could require that no safety related items(headlamps, turn signals, etc.) be damaged, but it did not have the authority to prohibit any cosmetic damage from occurring. In 1982 NHTSA reduced the impact requirement to 2.5 mph and rolled back the damage requirement. In addition to the court ruling, there was much discussion of how the massive 5 mpg battering rams impacted(no pun intended) safety in higher speed accidents, as well as to how the weight of the 5 mph bumpers affected fuel economy.

graphicguy · May 2017

So, as I settle in with my Q50, I've taken a couple of interstate road trips. Most recent to Louisville from the very NW 'burbs of Cincinnati (actually, in a totally different County). Seems I saved the company $600 by flying from Louiville to Milwaukee rather than CVG (Cincinnati International).

Anyway, on all highway, I'm getting around 28 MPG, which is 1 MPG better than the sticker says I should get. Could probably do better if I wasn't cruising at or near 80 MPH the whole way. While not it's forte, the Q50 is a nice cruiser on the interstate as well as a good handling sports sedan in town.

Buzzing around town with a little highway travel thrown in, I'm at 21-23 MPG depending on traffic and my heavy right foot.

Both figures are as good or better than the Caddy 2.0T 4 cyl in the CTS.

imidazol97 · May 2017

ab348 said:
The bumper stuff is interesting. While the battering-ram bumpers of the '70s needed to go away, it seems that where we got to is even worse than the pre-government-intervention 60s bumper style. A chrome bumper from that era with a rub strip would just work in parking lot situations. Today's body-color flexible bumper always get a mark or worse. They are considered sacrificial. D'oh.

My Cobalt spent two years in tight parking lots for apartment my son occupied. The rear body-colored bumper shows several abrasions from people bumping/scraping it. It also had a direct impact near middle that flexed bumper so much the black paint flaked. It's going to affect the sale value to some buyers when I sell it. The people bumping it never left notes, LOL.

roadburner · May 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
Of course, the king of that ideal is the Cimarron

I think Ford can do it OK now and then - MKZ isn't bad looking, and doesn't scream "Fusion".

driver100 said:

That is even worse....making a Fairmount into a T-Bird. Another case of false economizing when you take a lower model car and convert it into a luxury car....though Ford is the king at doing that thing....they even do it today.

I guess it is smart in that they can make a luxury car that sells for less than other models....but, the result is a luxury car...that isn't that luxurious under the surface.

I was looking for a Cougar when I found out the Mark VIII and T bird were all derivitave of the same MN12 platform.

I much prefer the previous generation Thunderbird and the Mark VII- though I will say that the MN12 Cougar is not nearly as hideous as its predecessor.

jwm40517 · May 2017

Imid, I saw a picture of a note left on a windshield after a parking lot bump. It said " The people watching me leave this note think I giving you my contact and insurance information, but I am not."

isellhondas · May 2017

driver100 said:

ab348 said:
The Leaf has been available up here for at least 4 years. Seldom see them though.
Terrible sales and big depreciation!

I know three people who have leased Leafs and they just love them. They got into them for very little money and the lease payments are very low. I was talking to an owner who said the battery packs have a 100,000 mile warranty but after that they are over 5000.00 to replace!

This means that if a leaf is, say, 12 years old with 140,000 miles on it it'll be effectively totaled when the battery pack finally dies! I think I would be very sure to dump mine before the 100K mark!

stickguy · May 2017

Craig, keep in mind that most pure electrics, by nature, are going to be lower miles. Not like you can hop in and do a long road trip! I could actually do just fine with one as a 2nd car, and probably would put 3k miles a year on it, at most. And I get majority of owners won't come close to breaking 10k

dino001 · May 2017

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:
The Leaf has been available up here for at least 4 years. Seldom see them though.
Terrible sales and big depreciation!
I know three people who have leased Leafs and they just love them. They got into them for very little money and the lease payments are very low. I was talking to an owner who said the battery packs have a 100,000 mile warranty but after that they are over 5000.00 to replace!

This means that if a leaf is, say, 12 years old with 140,000 miles on it it'll be effectively totaled when the battery pack finally dies! I think I would be very sure to dump mine before the 100K mark!

Isn't that the same with an internal combustion engine? If one dies at 140k miles, it would be same cost. The only issue is probability of a total death of an engine (replacement) vs. a total death of a battery pack at 100K+ miles. I don't know the answer to that. I also think that calculus may change at some point, but only IF more electric cars are sold. At that point there may be enough salvage material to buy a used, or reconditioned battery pack, just like an engine. But this assumes increased sales and popularity of those. It's a classic chicken and egg problem.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2017

Fair analogy but not quite the same...the battery isn't the "engine" really...it drives the electric motor(s)...it's almost like an EV has two engines to worry about...

suydam · May 2017

People can always find something to worry about.

isellhondas · May 2017

A modern car with rare exceptions isn't going to need an entire engine replacement at 140,000 but if it did, it could also be worth less than the cost of repair. a battery pack on the other hand WILL fail at some point. On a Hybrid the owner could continue to drive the car without battery assistance. On a car such a Leaf that operates 100 % on battery power it would be a different story.

stickguy · May 2017

Plenty of transmissions can fail at that mileage, and easily cost in that price range to replace

imidazol97 · May 2017

I thought of @Andres3 on Sunday. No not another Neon sighting. LOL.

I was on my way to a monthly first Sunday afternoon of the month cruise in. First of the season at that location. I was driving on 3-lane I70 east in a 65 zone which many people think means the speed limit is 70. But the 70 speed limit increase is less than a mile ahead. An exit with a large gore area is ahead and there's a state patrol car sitting in the gore at the end of the concrete barrier. Rare for staties to sit in that kind of spot. Oh. It's a local for the city that has the last 2 or 3 miles of interstate up to that point. He's there shooting laser at everything heading his way.

The state patrol is supposed to visually determine that some car may be speeding and then aim and fire. At least that was my impression from some time in the past. Instead this guy is just hitting all 3 lanes coming at him back almost a mile where the mild downhill starts and people over run their intended speed along with thinking it's up to 70 for the limit. The chap has been hitting too many donut shops to finish off the stereotype. I guess he didn't want to have to sit back along the level part of their jurisdiction or patrol on the many main thoroughfares where people routinely speed above 35 within their jurisdiction. Those are locals. On the interstate they get speeders from out-of-state.

The Porsche in the left lane apparently was below Donut Boy's threshold for speed. He was definitely above 65 however. I'm not sure he even saw the car sitting in the gore area. There were lots of semis in the mix and they may have blocked Porsche's view.

driver100 · May 2017

stickguy said:
Plenty of transmissions can fail at that mileage, and easily cost in that price range to replace

Operative word is "can".

dino001 · May 2017

driver100 said:

stickguy said:
Plenty of transmissions can fail at that mileage, and easily cost in that price range to replace
Operative word is "can".

Same thing with batteries. They "can" be depleted, but don't have to. My understanding they are NOT designed for 100k, they are warranted for 100k. It's a big difference. Plenty of battery-powered devices that go much longer than expected - that's especially true for rechargeable batteries. Then, plenty of opposite examples, too - just like with engines, or transmissions. One big difference - electric motors often run "forever", as opposed to internal combustion engines.

I won't be buying electric car any time soon, but battery pack design life is not on top of my list of objections.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2017

I used to tell people that logically (says Spock) after 175,000 miles, a car should be free, since it's just about all used up--but I got so many dirty looks I stopped saying that.

imidazol97 · May 2017

I think 175 K mi is a good point to consider the typical car finished. It may have life left in it, but putting any money into it needs to be done consciously realizing that money could go toward a payment or purchase of a car with life left.

E.g., I just gave that advice to a friend wanting to buy a car for a new driver. I suggested buying an older car with lots of miles for a low price and considering it a consumable if any major repair is needed. I explained it was likely that an accident would occur putting damage on that beginner's car anyhow. Buying a pickup truck a few years old at a reasonable price with low miles (an oxymoron) just ain't gonna happen.

I watched the kids leaving our high school parking lot bang into each other for 2 years before my son starting driving our old Buick. The kids with nice, shiny cars generally had been told by their parents to remain stationary in the lot, and not leave until the parking lot had cleared of the kids driving everything else.

andres3 · May 2017

imidazol97 said:
I thought of @Andres3 on Sunday. No not another Neon sighting. LOL.

I was on my way to a monthly first Sunday afternoon of the month cruise in. First of the season at that location. I was driving on 3-lane I70 east in a 65 zone which many people think means the speed limit is 70. But the 70 speed limit increase is less than a mile ahead. An exit with a large gore area is ahead and there's a state patrol car sitting in the gore at the end of the concrete barrier. Rare for staties to sit in that kind of spot. Oh. It's a local for the city that has the last 2 or 3 miles of interstate up to that point. He's there shooting laser at everything heading his way.

The state patrol is supposed to visually determine that some car may be speeding and then aim and fire. At least that was my impression from some time in the past. Instead this guy is just hitting all 3 lanes coming at him back almost a mile where the mild downhill starts and people over run their intended speed along with thinking it's up to 70 for the limit. The chap has been hitting too many donut shops to finish off the stereotype. I guess he didn't want to have to sit back along the level part of their jurisdiction or patrol on the many main thoroughfares where people routinely speed above 35 within their jurisdiction. Those are locals. On the interstate they get speeders from out-of-state.

The Porsche in the left lane apparently was below Donut Boy's threshold for speed. He was definitely above 65 however. I'm not sure he even saw the car sitting in the gore area. There were lots of semis in the mix and they may have blocked Porsche's view.

in CA there is a standing unwritten rule of 10 MPH of leeway on the speed limit, and generally, 15 MPH is the threshold to get a ticket. They know the speed limit is under posted, we know the speed limit is under posted, and we all just chuckle, and everyone is happy unless you do more than 14 MPH over the two black numbers on an aluminum sign.

There are numerous studies that show the people that automatically drive 10 over the speed limit don't do that typically if the speed limit goes up high enough that it actually reflects a reasonable high limit.

If they set limits at 100 MPH in some zones, some people here have cars that might have trouble cruising at 110 MPH for instance. People develop the "I'll drive 10 over rule" when they see that the vast majority of speed limits are set too low. First came the low speed limits, then came the drivers who routinely observe them +/- 10. Not the other way around.

I can point out a couple roads where it's not hard to find people doing 10 below the speed limit routinely. The speed limit is more appropriately set there.

andres3 · May 2017

jwm40517 said:
Imid, I saw a picture of a note left on a windshield after a parking lot bump. It said " The people watching me leave this note think I giving you my contact and insurance information, but I am not."

Was it turned into the FBI for fingerprint and handwriting and ink analysis? They should have cut out text from a magazine to form their sentences.

ab348 · May 2017

isellhondas said:
I was talking to an owner who said the battery packs have a 100,000 mile warranty but after that they are over 5000.00 to replace!

This means that if a leaf is, say, 12 years old with 140,000 miles on it it'll be effectively totaled when the battery pack finally dies! I think I would be very sure to dump mine before the 100K mark!

Resale on used hybrids and electrics is depressed for that reason.

fintail · May 2017

I can get 2011-12 Leafs for 5-6K now. At 12 years old they will be worth maybe double scrap value.

isellhondas said:

This means that if a leaf is, say, 12 years old with 140,000 miles on it it'll be effectively totaled when the battery pack finally dies! I think I would be very sure to dump mine before the 100K mark!

fintail · May 2017

I generally do 5-8 over no matter the road. Maybe less if I can't, maybe more if in a convoy. If you are no more than 10 over, local authorities seem to be fine with it.

Plenty of people here do 10 under all the time, due the classic timid pensive Seattle driving style. "Speed kills" really worked on these people.

andres3 said:

I can point out a couple roads where it's not hard to find people doing 10 below the speed limit routinely. The speed limit is more appropriately set there.

Michaell · May 2017

On my last road trip (I-25 and I-40) I had the adaptive cruise set at 5 over on the outbound trip and 10 over on the return trip.

Will be taking I-25 on a trip at the end of the month and will likely try 10 over both there and back.

Not much in the way of traffic south of Pueblo.

venture · May 2017

fintail said:
I generally do 5-8 over no matter the road. Maybe less if I can't, maybe more if in a convoy. If you are no more than 10 over, local authorities seem to be fine with it.

Plenty of people here do 10 under all the time, due the classic timid pensive Seattle driving style. "Speed kills" really worked on these people.

andres3 said:

I can point out a couple roads where it's not hard to find people doing 10 below the speed limit routinely. The speed limit is more appropriately set there.

I don't know how many times I looked at accident data for a portion of road and the cause of many accidents was listed as excess speed. I knew that wasn't the case, but most state troopers I talked to about the data admitted that when they are at a loss to explain why an accident happened they use speed.

Engineers and designers involved with roadway design know that generally speed doesn't kill - differentials in speed is what kills.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2017

Not much of anything south of Pueblo.

venture · May 2017

For the Chic-Fil-A fans.

I was at Chic-Fil-A for lunch. The bill came to $15.04. I gave the girl a twenty and before I could hand her the 4 pennies, she punched it into her cash register.

As Michaell has said - Chaos ensued.

imidazol97 · May 2017

venture said:
For the Chic-Fil-A fans.

I was at Chic-Fil-A for lunch. The bill came to $15.04. I gave the girl a twenty and before I could hand her the 4 pennies, she punched it into her cash register.

As Michaell has said - Chaos ensued.

It's easy to get some of the cashiers confused. I do a special order on a #1 sandwich that is grilled and no marinade. Many of them insist that needs to be ordered as a #5 which is the grilled sandwich. It starts with a different patty that has been marinaded from the commissary and remarinated at the store. The #1 patty is plain until they dip it in breading shortly before cooking. I even had the marketing manager for one area store punch it in wrong. Then when she herself delivered it to the table and it was done wrong, she blamed ME. Only my wife gets to blame me for mistakes I didn't make. LOL

dino001 · May 2017

venture said:
For the Chic-Fil-A fans.

I was at Chic-Fil-A for lunch. The bill came to $15.04. I gave the girl a twenty and before I could hand her the 4 pennies, she punched it into her cash register.

As Michaell has said - Chaos ensued.

What's up with that? So if you hand those four pennies later they can't give you back 5 bucks, or are they simply illiterates and can't count on their own? I had same experience once at Dunkin Donuts - the fellow said it was too late and handed me bunch of coins.

Does this mean the register actually tracks the denominations and you better had it all exactly it says? Doesn't exactly make sense to me, as they'd break larger bills for you and don't punch in those.

I suspect those people at the register are "trained" by their superiors not to do anything that requires simple addition or subtraction outside of the register.

andres3 · May 2017

venture said:

fintail said:
I generally do 5-8 over no matter the road. Maybe less if I can't, maybe more if in a convoy. If you are no more than 10 over, local authorities seem to be fine with it.

Plenty of people here do 10 under all the time, due the classic timid pensive Seattle driving style. "Speed kills" really worked on these people.

andres3 said:

I can point out a couple roads where it's not hard to find people doing 10 below the speed limit routinely. The speed limit is more appropriately set there.

I don't know how many times I looked at accident data for a portion of road and the cause of many accidents was listed as excess speed. I knew that wasn't the case, but most state troopers I talked to about the data admitted that when they are at a loss to explain why an accident happened they use speed.

Engineers and designers involved with roadway design know that generally speed doesn't kill - differentials in speed is what kills.

Speeding gets blamed no matter what on roads where limits are under-posted. On those types of roads, generally everyone drives lawlessly, so whenever there is an accident, odds are they were speeding! LOL.

Also, if a driver rear-ends a semi-truck going 70 MPH, the blood alcohol tests could come back as 0.24, the black box data could reveal the brake pedal wasn't touched the last 300 seconds of data before the crash, and they would still blame speeding as the cause of the wreck if the speed limit was 65 MPH.

bwia · May 2017

graphicguy said:

So, as I settle in with my Q50, I've taken a couple of interstate road trips. Most recent to Louisville from the very NW 'burbs of Cincinnati (actually, in a totally different County). Seems I saved the company $600 by flying from Louiville to Milwaukee rather than CVG (Cincinnati International).

Anyway, on all highway, I'm getting around 28 MPG, which is 1 MPG better than the sticker says I should get. Could probably do better if I wasn't cruising at or near 80 MPH the whole way. While not it's forte, the Q50 is a nice cruiser on the interstate as well as a good handling sports sedan in town.

Buzzing around town with a little highway travel thrown in, I'm at 21-23 MPG depending on traffic and my heavy right foot.

Both figures are as good or better than the Caddy 2.0T 4 cyl in the CTS.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying your new Q50 and with good gas milage to booot. Don't see many of them around here but the Maxima is commonplace.

explorerx4 · May 2017

A pretty funny thing happened today while I was in the garage with one of the doors open.
Some kid driving a battery powered little pickup truck drove up the driveway and was checking out my truck.
His mother kept trying to get him to come back to the sidewalk and after a couple of minutes he did.
The little truck did have a blue oval on the back.
I just stayed in the garage and enjoyed the moment.

tbirdmarco · May 2017

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eWyU4VMcGNI

oldfarmer50 · May 2017

isellhondas said:
A modern car with rare exceptions isn't going to need an entire engine replacement at 140,000 but if it did, it could also be worth less than the cost of repair. a battery pack on the other hand WILL fail at some point. On a Hybrid the owner could continue to drive the car without battery assistance. On a car such a Leaf that operates 100 % on battery power it would be a different story.

You have to wonder why, if the engine can go 200k miles, why they don't make the rest of the car parts to last that long? At least the domestics seem to nickle and dime you to death. Is that by design?

driver100 · May 2017

fintail said:
I can get 2011-12 Leafs for 5-6K now. At 12 years old they will be worth maybe double scrap value.

isellhondas said:

This means that if a leaf is, say, 12 years old with 140,000 miles on it it'll be effectively totaled when the battery pack finally dies! I think I would be very sure to dump mine before the 100K mark!

Some guy at tennis wants to buy a used Tesla. He says they are really cheap because he heard the Tesla will need a new battery in a few years.....and it will cost about $20000!

driver100 · May 2017

Michaell said:
On my last road trip (I-25 and I-40) I had the adaptive cruise set at 5 over on the outbound trip and 10 over on the return trip.

Will be taking I-25 on a trip at the end of the month and will likely try 10 over both there and back.

Not much in the way of traffic south of Pueblo.

Try 12 over....just to test! Then keep going up by 2 to see what the threshold is.

venture · May 2017

dino001 said:

venture said:
For the Chic-Fil-A fans.

I was at Chic-Fil-A for lunch. The bill came to $15.04. I gave the girl a twenty and before I could hand her the 4 pennies, she punched it into her cash register.

As Michaell has said - Chaos ensued.
What's up with that? So if you hand those four pennies later they can't give you back 5 bucks, or are they simply illiterates and can't count on their own? I had same experience once at Dunkin Donuts - the fellow said it was too late and handed me bunch of coins.

Does this mean the register actually tracks the denominations and you better had it all exactly it says? Doesn't exactly make sense to me, as they'd break larger bills for you and don't punch in those.

I suspect those people at the register are "trained" by their superiors not to do anything that requires simple addition or subtraction outside of the register.

It was worse than I expected. After having a seriously confused look come over her face, she handed me a 5 and a 10 dollar bill. I gave her back the 10 and she just accepted it.

venture · May 2017

imidazol97 said:

venture said:
For the Chic-Fil-A fans.

I was at Chic-Fil-A for lunch. The bill came to $15.04. I gave the girl a twenty and before I could hand her the 4 pennies, she punched it into her cash register.

As Michaell has said - Chaos ensued.
It's easy to get some of the cashiers confused. I do a special order on a #1 sandwich that is grilled and no marinade. Many of them insist that needs to be ordered as a #5 which is the grilled sandwich. It starts with a different patty that has been marinaded from the commissary and remarinated at the store. The #1 patty is plain until they dip it in breading shortly before cooking. I even had the marketing manager for one area store punch it in wrong. Then when she herself delivered it to the table and it was done wrong, she blamed ME. Only my wife gets to blame me for mistakes I didn't make. LOL

I feel your pain.

Same Chic-Fil-A on a Saturday morning. I ordered the number 2 (I think it is) which consists of a bacon or sausage, egg and cheese biscuit, hash browns of some sort, and a small coffee.

I said, "Number 2 with sausage and cream in the coffee". She proceeded to ask me if I only wanted sausage in the biscuit and if I wanted a small, medium, or large coffee. A few minutes later when that was all straightened out she asked for my name for the order. I said, "I'm the only one here"!

ab348 · May 2017

I'm not much of a McDonald's person but I do like to have breakfast there occasionally. The automated order kiosks they have recently introduced here are a great advance from my point of view in that I don't have to deal with any of their counter staff except the one who hands me my order. I pick what I want off the screen, pay with a CC and am done.

oldfarmer50 · May 2017

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
Of course, the king of that ideal is the Cimarron

I think Ford can do it OK now and then - MKZ isn't bad looking, and doesn't scream "Fusion".

driver100 said:

That is even worse....making a Fairmount into a T-Bird. Another case of false economizing when you take a lower model car and convert it into a luxury car....though Ford is the king at doing that thing....they even do it today.

I guess it is smart in that they can make a luxury car that sells for less than other models....but, the result is a luxury car...that isn't that luxurious under the surface.

I was looking for a Cougar when I found out the Mark VIII and T bird were all derivitave of the same MN12 platform.

I much prefer the previous generation Thunderbird and the Mark VII- though I will say that the MN12 Cougar is not nearly as hideous as its predecessor.

I should get a commission for finding these:

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6124191332.html

I shouldn't get started. It's too tempting.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6106935299.html

explorerx4 · May 2017

@oldfarmer,
Ad is a little shaky, but could be a great find.

oldfarmer50 · May 2017

ab348 said:
I'm not much of a McDonald's person but I do like to have breakfast there occasionally. The automated order kiosks they have recently introduced here are a great advance from my point of view in that I don't have to deal with any of their counter staff except the one who hands me my order. I pick what I want off the screen, pay with a CC and am done.

Just like "the man" to replace the workers of the world as they were getting their $15/hr.

stickguy · May 2017

it does look OK, but the sitting for 10 years part makes me nervous. Modern cars are not likely to handle that well.

Michaell · May 2017

driver100 said:

Michaell said:
On my last road trip (I-25 and I-40) I had the adaptive cruise set at 5 over on the outbound trip and 10 over on the return trip.

Will be taking I-25 on a trip at the end of the month and will likely try 10 over both there and back.

Not much in the way of traffic south of Pueblo.
Try 12 over....just to test! Then keep going up by 2 to see what the threshold is.

Once we get into NM I might try that. I've got to cross Raton Pass first - the highway is pretty twisty and the speed limit drops to 65-70.

dino001 · May 2017

ab348 said:
I'm not much of a McDonald's person but I do like to have breakfast there occasionally. The automated order kiosks they have recently introduced here are a great advance from my point of view in that I don't have to deal with any of their counter staff except the one who hands me my order. I pick what I want off the screen, pay with a CC and am done.

It's kind of funny and sad. As consummers, we like the kiosks (I know I do) in place on people, who unfortunately can't add up two-digit numbers, or comprehend a longer sentence. Then we elect a president that promises us he will stop exactly that trend and give work to all peoplee, regardless how unqualified they might be. I'm exaggerating, of course, for the retethoric, but there is a real dilemma - there will always be enough work for well qualified, but those unqualified, or just slightly qualified are and will be pushed out. What do we do with them, I really don't know.

fintail · May 2017

Guaranteed minimum income - as population increases at a much faster rate than decent job creation, it is a virtual certainty.

fordfool · May 2017

graphicguy said:
Seems I saved the company $600 by flying from Louiville to Milwaukee ...

Louisville? Isn't that the flight on which the friendly people at United Airlines
"help" the passenger off of the plane.

cdnpinhead · May 2017

"Number 2 with sausage and cream in the coffee.

It's a wonder you didn't get sausage in the coffee along with the cream.

driver100 · May 2017

oldfarmer.....I wonder about those odometers. Didn't they make them so the numbers would always line up evenly......unless tampered with.

Also, sitting for 10 years is worse than driving for 10 years. Those interior pictures look pretty dark....wouldn't you take better pictures than that if you were showing the interior?

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