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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I've done considerable research in connection with my job on synthetics. There is absolutely no comparison between synthetic oil and conventionsl oil. Synthetics will pass by a factor of 3 and 4 the same tests which conventional pass by a 10% margin. People are just not informed how good syn is compared to conventional oil. I personally believe Mobile1 is superior to Amsioi (I am a former Amsoil Dealer) Mobile has published articles in SAE journals on their results. Amsoil, in my experience has not. The cost increase of using syn in a $20,000 is peanuts. In addition you can normally go to 10,00 mile change intervals. I change oil one a year and filter twice. By the way mobil1 filters are superior to others be cause they use fiberglass media vs paper. Unfortunately 'Joe Sixpack' doesn't understand why he should invest $4 instead of $1.50 in a qt or $10 in a filter. Remember there is a reason that all jet aircraft use synthetic instead of conventional oil. Its a 'no brainer'
  • evizeevize Member Posts: 33
    I just found this thread & lot' s of great info on synthetics.... but this has prompted a
    lot of questions.

    I've started using Mobil 1 in my '98 Regal GS. Am I using the best synthetic for my money
    or is there something better. What do the terms PAO & hydocracked mean??

    I see some of you prefer Amsoil..... why?? Want to learn more on this topic. Thanks in advance for any help.
  • wayn1wayn1 Member Posts: 69
    I'm shocked that you used to be an Amsoil dealer! What happened? You rather have Mobile 1 instead?
    If you would like to discuss this by e-mail, let me know.
  • jabildajabilda Member Posts: 47
    in my vehicles. I live near the Mobil Lube plant and was fortunate to have a friend performing contract work (to the buildings, not the product) at the lube plant. He was able to see one of the test engines they ran on Mobil1. Based on his observations, I do not use anything else in my vehicles. If th eother synthetics are as good as / surpass Mobil1, I'd use them. I'm not a mechanic, but have interest with vehicles / maintenance and have read-up on any articles about Synthetics and the comparisons to regular motor oil. The thing that comes to mind most is thermal breaksdown (heat temperature). The synthetics have it don't break down as quick. I think (and those of you more technical than I please correct me where I'm wrong), engine oil starts to break down quickly when the engine is 250 degrees and higher (obviously more quickly the hotter the engine). What synthetics do better is maintaining protestion at high heats which is particularly important for 4 cylinders. I've seen similar for motorcycle application especially since there are Harley owners whose engines are air cooled and need the protection more than a liquid cooled engine.

    VW has put out technical bulletins supporting the use of sythetics in their engines and Porche / Corvette, I believe/ now come with it from the factory.

    If you like to keep your vehicles, like I do, I'd switch to the synthetics. Using the regular oil is good if you stick to the 3,000 mile change (religiously). My money's with the synthetic!

    I've heard that the 2001 Civic calls for (manufacturer's standard) oil changes every 10,000 miles - anyone else hear this??
  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    compared to Mobil 1 is availability and price. I assume AMSOIL is priced above Mobil 1. (If someone has the price per quart, please post).

    Also, I never heard of AMSOIL until I came to this topic. I've owned numerous vehicles and always change my own oil and was wondering why I had never heard of such a good product.

    Regarding break down: reports are definitly out there that support Syn. oil as far as oil break down. The Syn. oils don't break down as conv. oil does. However, the break down point of conv. oil is high enough not to harm most engines. Conv. oils are perfectly fine for most engines if changed at 3k - 5k miles. I've owned vehicle with over 200,000 miles with conv. oil with not problems. I've just started using Syn. oil (Mobil 1) and I'll have to see what the results are. But 200,000 miles ain't bad. I don't think it'll get any better.

    Like I said before,,,,,,I switched to Syn. oil to save a little time and trouble.....(longer intervals between changes).

    John
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #631

    I have to agree with you on the "testing" issue. To my knowledge, neither Amsoil and Redline subscribe to those "independent" recognized testing services as the more mainline synthetic and conventional oil manufacturers do ie Mobil One, Quaker State.

    My informal take on why say Amsoil and Redline cost more per quart is the "economy of size" issue and the smaller guys overall have more cost, which of course jacks up the per unit cost.
  • wayn1wayn1 Member Posts: 69
    The price of Amsoil is (what I sell it for) is $6.50qt for the reg. syn. The Series 2000 which is a 0W-30 weight and is the top of the line syn. sells for $8.50qt. The oil filters are made from the same material as the Mobile 1 filter.(Mobile copied Amsoil on their oil filters and the 0W-30 weight.)
    The only reason why I think Amsoil costs more is because that it can last up to 25,000 miles or one year whichever comes first. The oil filters last for 12,500 miles or six months.
    So if anyone has questions,sing out.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Amsoil recommends changing oil once a year, but replacing the oil filter every 6 months.

    I do not understand this. How to change filter without changing oil? Does it mean to put the just drained oil back, or what?

    Second, is it possible to perform the trick at quick lube, with the oil/filter you bring here? Or only at home?

    Probably, you can explain this.
  • bblahabblaha Member Posts: 329
    You apparently haven't done many oil changes. Gravity pulls oil down through the engine, where it collects into the oilpan. The filter is located higher than the oilpan. After the engine has been off for few minutes (and hence not being pumped out), all the oil has collected in the pan, below the filter. When you pull the filter off, the only oil lost is the few ounces still in the filter.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Thank you! I never changed oil.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I have nothing against Amsoil. I just got worn out by their promotions. And thats OK, I'm just not a salesman. I origionally became a dealer for tax purposes and to buy their products at a discount. Since I sold to my friends, I attempted to get information from Amsoil as to why their product was better than Mobil 1. I received inclusive, nebulous information. As I said Mobil publishes in the SAE, they have been in the syn business for 30 years and have tremendous resources. Many high performance cars come with a Mobil 1 fill. I couldn't charge my customers twice the amount of money for a product which was not proven to be better than Mobil 1. BTW Mobil also has tested their vehicles to 25,000 miles but does not wish to push this issue. Mainly because of a warranty conflict. I understand this. As far as Amsoil backing the 25,000 mile garantee with the auto manufacture's warranty. That's kind of a red herring because engine warranties usually run out at 30,000. Besides people who use Amsoil will change well ahead of this anyway and probably take good care of their car. Check my profile and email me. I'm still looking for solid proof and If you can convince me I'll go back. Have a good wone
  • mdecampsmdecamps Member Posts: 115
    Well, I've read all 642 responses finally. I recently started using Valvoline Synthetic in my 1998 Chevy S-10 with the 2.2L 4-cylinder. At my next oil change, I'm switching to the 5W30 Mobil 1 oil with the AC Delco Ultraguard filter. (I've researched and these filters seem far superior to everything else). In addition I'm going to expand my change intervals to 6,000. My next question would be, do any of you have experience running syn oil in small engines? (i.e. Briggs and Stratton, Tecumseh, Honda, etc.) I can't find a manufacturer that makes a syn in the straight 30W. These small air-cooled engines run hotter, therefore do not recommend a muli-weight oil such as 5W30 or 10W30. Has anyone used anything else or found a 30W? Any and all info. would be appreciated. Also, anyone use syn. gear lube in their differentials?
  • spectre3spectre3 Member Posts: 67
    in a 1980 f250 4x4,
    i ran mobi1 oil, synthetic atf in the transfer case, castrol 75w90 synthetic gear oil in front and rear differential, and the 4 speed manual transmission. also used valvoline semi-synthetic wheel bearing grease in the front hubs.

    i now have a 1995 f350 4x4 and it has the castrol synthetic 75w90 lube in the front differential.
    i will be changing my auto transmission fluid this spring to a synthetic if i can get away with it.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Briggs and Stratton now approves the use of 5w30 and 10w30 synthetic in their engines. See:
    http://www2.briggsandstratton.com/MainSite.asp?CategoryID=37&lrID=1&ParentID=7&MSCSSID=&MB=&EPAGE=/main/RealBriggs/WebSite/NA/EN/support_maintenance/maintenance/oil_type.mb&l=0
  • bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    hid the above post to keep the extra-long URL from messing up the screen.

    Your host, Bruce
  • wtdwtd Member Posts: 96
    fluids in my engine, differentials and transfer case on my 98 Ext-cab Z-71. I'll probably go with synthetic tranny fluid at the next change. I use all Mobil 1 products.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I used mobil 1 in my Techsuah (spelling) 4 1/2 hoursepower mower for several years (10w30). I started using it because it came new from KMart complete with a bearing knock. I didn't take it back because my old one died and I told my son to go get one and start mowing -so it was already used. Anyhow, the bearing knock was noticably reduced withthe Mobil and the mower still works fine. You can normally get away with using a lighter grade synthetic because of the enhanced lubricating properties. In my opinion Mobil 1 is the best. I am curious to learn where you got the information about the AC filter. I did some research in connection with my job and found that compressed fiberglass is the best (better than paper). Mobil 1 filters are manufactured in this manner. The efficiencies of the Mobil 1 filter also appear to be the best available. I am not criticising you. I'd be interested in seeing this information. Also, in my humble opinion I would not change oil until the oil turns from a dark gold color to black. This will vary from one vehicle to another. I think its a waste of money changing sooner. I change once a year generally, with a filter change at 6 months. Have a good one.
    Al
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #648
    The common practical answer is to: "Throw the baby out with the wash. We have objective data for conventional/synthetic oil, yet we still are not realistically being told how long to change use the filter. If you read between the lines for the more fastidious, a filter with synthetic oil needs to be changed about half the length of the oil. ie, if you go 15k between changes the filter can be changed @ 7.5k and 15k. So if 8 qts of synthetic oil is 4.42 a qt we are solving a 35.36 plus 3 buck filter 38.36 for the sins of a 3 buck filter, hence throwing the baby out with the wash.

    In fact we should just change the 3 buck filter and add back the lost oil due to filter change. Synthetic can go 3 to 5 X's the interval of very high quality conventional oil. The filter is really the weak chain in the link. So the most economic is to change the filter in between normal change intervals.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    It's one of the best filters available, if not the best, in the nationwide automotive chains like Pepboys.

    go to "Filters - oil"
    then "Ultraguard Gold".

    http://www.acdelco.com/parts/1100_set.htm
  • mdecampsmdecamps Member Posts: 115
    My info on AC Delco's Ultraguard Gold Filters was taken directly off their website (see response #650). I understand that this may be biased, but it seems far superior in every aspect. They use "100% synthetic wire backed media" for their filters. It filters at a rate of 98.5% at 8-10 microns in SPE (single pass efficiency). I haven't found any other companies that are bragging those numbers. If anyone knows of one, please send me the link.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    I also did not saw direct comparision in single-pass test. But Purolator advertise that its Pure One filters are the best with other test, and this test is more important:

    http://www.pureoil.com/testing.htm

    We already discussed this on a sister board today:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?&f=0&c=Maintenance&t=851&q=*

    Sorry for repeating.
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    I want to switch to Mobil 1 at 47000 miles.
    My mothers Ford Festiva is very very dependable but she's driving it a lot in the florida'a hot weather. I think she is putting a lot of strain on that little 1.3 (65hp) engine , hot conditions, a/c on most of the time, mostly stop and go driving.

    I think that Mobile 1 should be a lot better there than the conventional oil.
    Someone told me that before changing over to M1 I should remove the sludge or deposits that may be
    in the engine.
    How and where can I get it done, and how much can it cost?
    Thanks for advice.
  • spectre3spectre3 Member Posts: 67
    motor flush unnecessary, can be harmful.

    i use mobil 1 and mobil 1 oil filter every 5k.

    540 mile per week commute to work.

    my 2 cents, for what its worth.

    lee
  • bblahabblaha Member Posts: 329
    You can remove alot of sludge merely by dropping the pan.
  • mdecampsmdecamps Member Posts: 115
    I'm having this same discussion on the other forum (Oil a slippery subject). For discussion purposes, consider this: If a filter is better with single pass efficiency, then why wouldn't it filter the oil the same every subsequent time after that (multi-pass)? It just seems to me that these are measures of one in the same thing. I'm not trying to argue with you, merely learn.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    I also do not want to argue. Just put one advertisement against another, to demonstrate that not everything is clear yet.

    I am just a computer programmer, of a scientific kind. Never was in the oil filter business, and know nothing about the multi-pass vs. single-pass issue.

    But the common sense is the channels in filter are gradually clogged by the caught particles and sludge.

    The more narrow channels will be completely clogged fast. The wider ones for time being will be only partially clogged - and will catch smaller particles. About the same can happen with curved channels vs. straight ones.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I agree with spectre3. You should swithch-it's a no brainer. I would not flush. Run the Mobil until it starts turning from a dark honey color to black. You could then change filter and go longer, but probably best to go with another oil change. With each change the syn will stay cleaner longer. If the oil has been regularly changed and is not using oil currently the first change of Mobil 1 will stay cleaner longer. I currently change oil about every year and a filter change in between this interval. As I said, don't loose heart, if at first the oil turns dark quickly- the syn oil acts like a solvent. You are doing your mom a big favor.

    Al
  • mxylplik2mxylplik2 Member Posts: 19
    I drop my car off with the Mobil garage and ask them to change the oil with Mobil1 synthetic oil. Other than taking their word for it, how can I check myself that they in fact used synthetic oil versus using conventional oil (and telling me that they used synthetic)? Is there a certain smell, test, etc. that I can do? I would hate to pay for syn and get conventional oil. Thanks!
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    on your previous experience with the car and the oil you are using. I would be able to tell on my vehicles based on the length of time it takes to turn dark and the consumption. In a good engine the syn oil will stay lighter longer and use less oil. I don't think you can smell the difference but that's an interesting thought. You could buy a container of the weight Mobile 1 oil you are supposed to be getting. Put a drop on a mirror and check the color difference. Mobile 1 5-30 is lighter than most oils. If you have a hot plate capable of going to 350 degrees you can put a drop of the real Mobil 1 and your oil on. It will be obvious if one is not syn (I know this is carried away and potentially dangerous- I don't recommend it).
    It's a good question. Maybe the answer is : If you have some doubt maybe you need to look else where. I don't mean to sound like a know it all-I don't. Just trying to help.

    Al
  • spectre3spectre3 Member Posts: 67
    small world isn't it?

    i am a computer programmer of the banking kind...
  • spectre3spectre3 Member Posts: 67
    your engine will get cleaner with time, i have also have experienced this scenario.
    perhaps 5k mile oil changes are overkill in my case.... maybe i should take your advices and extend my intervals slowly..

    i do all my own changes so i know what i have in my crankcase.

    i can see how one would wonder if they are getting the "real stuff" if they are having their oil changed by someone.

    later,,
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I think you should extend. As I said before I know Mobil has tested their oils to 25,000 miles but are loath to tell people to do it. They have run a test of 4 identical GM 6 cyl vehicles. The test used Mobil 1. Each car was run 200, 000 miles, with two getting changed every 7500 miles and the other two every 15,000 with a filter change in between. The first 50,00 miles was a bix of city and highway and the last 150,000 was all highway. After they tore the engines down they found all running parts came up to factory specs for --- new ---- parts. Pretty amazing. That sold me on Mobil 1 and extended oil changes.

    Al
  • jbadamsjbadams Member Posts: 63
    I disagree with the above that syn oil does not turn as dark as fast... and that Mobil 1 is lighter in color to other oils. Valvoline SynTec is lighter in color than Mobil 1 oil out of the bottle.

    I use Mobil 1 in my 2k Maxima, and have since 1k miles... and it turns dark in about 1500 miles.

    I think the only way to tell if your mechanic used Mobil 1 is to hand it to him and watch him put it in.
  • bblahabblaha Member Posts: 329
    jbadams: Ditto that. Its probably not the ONLY way, but it certainly is the most practical way.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Ok, I know I have asked a lot of questions about synthetic oil on this board and I had just about decided to switch on my new car with the first oil change. Here is the question however. I have talked to three different friends of mine that have Dodge trucks. All three are V-8's and one is an older 440. All three have a problem with oil pressure after they switched to synthetic. The 318 shows proper pressure as long as you are driving but drops to next to nothing at a stop light or sign. The 360 has to be at highway speed, in rush hour traffic it reads closer to 0 than normal. The 440 doesn't like it at all. Unless the truck is running down the freeway you can hear the lifters. I don't know of other trucks that do this because none of my Chevy friends use synthetic oil. And the ford owners haven't shared any stories with me. Except the power Stroke diesel guy who said he wasn't allowed to use synthetic because Ford wouldn't honor his extended warranty. I haven't heard any of these complaints from people with the smaller higher revving engines so I was wondering if it was a problem or what with these trucks? Any feed back will be greatly appreciated.
  • oilcan2oilcan2 Member Posts: 120
    I have heard of this oil pressure problem,I think
    it depends alot on what type of oil pressure gauge
    is used and where the pressure is taken from.as
    for the noisey lifters here is my thinking,I have
    been reading and commenting mainly on the syn oil
    posts for the past year or so,I am a amsoil dealer
    and user.The trend I have seen is when someone
    describes his dino oil they will say,I use
    valvoline 10w30,but when they talk about syn,they
    only state mobil one or amsoil, it sounds like
    mobil one and amsoil only have one oil whereas
    both companies have many different weights.I
    tried mobil one in a ford 351w in 1978 (10w30)
    and had to remove it due to noisey lifters,at that
    time they only had one weight oil.maybe the 440
    guy should try a 20w50 oil.I think the smaller
    engines probably have smaller clearences and do
    not have hyd lifters.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Thanks, I think you might be correct. I have heard that one of the men I was talking about had to change his sending unit and that cleared up the problem on the 360. The 440 is gun shy.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Do you any of you know anything about Pennzoil's new full synthetic oil? I used to use Pennzoil's Performax, mainly because I've always used Pennzoil, and secondly, its cost was more than a buck less per quart than the other full synthetics. Since they've come out with their new synthetic, priced higher than even Mobile 1, I've boycotted Pennzoil by switching to Mobile 1. Pennzoil could have easily priced their new syntheic at the same price, or close to the same price as their Performax was priced at. Until I see proof that this new Pennzoil is actually worth the price, I'm sticking with Mobile 1.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I buy a lot of my automotive supplies at Walmart, as long as I can get the name brand products I need. I've noticed that their generic store brand called "Tech" now makes a full synthetic motor oil. It's priced at more than $1.25 per quart less than any of the name brand synthetic motor oils. If I understand correctly, aren't these generic brand products made by some brand name company and then just purchased and packaged by Tech? If so, wouldn't a person be better off by using this generic oil and just changing your oil a little more frequently, lets say changing your oil at 5k or 6k, instead of 7.5k?
  • doublewingdoublewing Member Posts: 16
    It was another sub zero (F) morning here in Northern IL, which reminds me of the main reason I like synthetic. oil: Extreme Cold Flowability.

    I bought a quart of Quaker State full synthetic a few months back, and I put it in my freezer overnight. Then I improvised a test based on how fast an air bubble rose through the cold oil. I was not particularly impressed.

    I chose Mobil1 0W-30 for my winter fill. BTW, Mobil publishes tech. specs. on their products on at Mobil1.com, and I haven't found that from any other manufacturer.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I understand your thoughts of getting an oil which you feel is better than a conventional oil but probably not as good as Mobil 1. Not sure this is a good choice for $1.25 per quart. To me the Tech brand is an unknown quantity. I'd go with Havoline or Castrol conventional oil changed at recommended intervals. Like I keep saying Synthetic is not for everyone. But knowing what I know about syn I'm not everyone.

    Later
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Does the Tech brand meet the European ACEA A1/B1- 98 tests? If so its probably an OK oil. I don't think any conventional oils can meet this test. I could be wrong though.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    If I can't get a "warm fuzzy" about the Tech brand, or any other generic brand as far as that goes, I'll probably keep using Mobile 1. At least with Mobile 1 I know I'm getting a proven product.
  • cajndavecajndave Member Posts: 12
    If you take mostly short trips I would change the oil every 3thousand miles. Regardless of what type of oil you use short trips dosen't allow the oil to burn off all the moisture/condensation in the oil. This will just mulitply over time and not help longevity of your engine. Mineral based oils are fine for non high performance/non high dollar cars.
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    It is more likely that GM and Mobil signed a joint marketing agreement that gives GM free oil in return for Mobil's ability to tout that the Corvette comes "factory filled" with Mobil 1.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    While I am pro synthetic under the proper conditions, the only reason that GM recommends Mobil 1 in the vette is that most of their customers are inclined to use synthetic and they can get a price advantage by 'endorsing' Mobil 1. You are very gullible if you think that performance and quality are the primary considerations to GM.
  • bnormannbnormann Member Posts: 335
    GM is famous for pushing its suppliers for price advantage. Now, Porsche also fills the 911 with it and I think they are less likely to "follow the $$".

    OTOH, it DOES make sense to use consistent lubrication materials during the lifecycle of the engine and "Mobil 1" has to be one of the most readily available products.

    Bruce
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    Based on a rough estimate, GM probably goes through around 150,000 gallons of oil a year filling up corvettes. That is $642,000 at Wal-mart prices. If by buying bulk and 'endorsing' Mobil 1, they can get it at half or less of retail price, they have saved $3-400,000. That makes someone a nice bonus. There ae many great synthetic oils on the market. By making a good brand name the initial oil in a market more noted to go to synthetics, Mobil 1 is poised to stay the oil of choice for these vehicles. Look at the demographics for the typical high-end sports car buyer. A vette is not a car for the practical. A friend of mine has one. The tires last only 15k miles and cost $400 each. These are people who will take the thing to the dealer every 3000 miles and pay full price for the synthetics. The dealers get to buy the Mobil 1 by the barrel and save even more money. There are people who think about these little details to add to the profit line. If it was not for these details, GM would put a generic synthetic or dino oil into the engines from the factory and then recommend an oil change at 500-3000 miles with an approved synthetic oil. From the aspect of Mobil 1, they get an almost guaranteed 30+ quarts sold for every quart they deliver to the vette factory.
  • cookie22cookie22 Member Posts: 73
    In the new Jan. /Feb. magazine "Modern Maturity on page 60 , there is an article you should read. I don't know if it will put to rest some of the things discuss on this forum or not but it is interesting. It's about Automobiles.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    On the other hand changing your car every few years is the perfect reason to use synthetics in an extended interval say 15,000 miles on up.

    BOTTOM LINE: CHEAPER.

    You use less product over the life of the vehicle, go to the quickie lube less (or if you do it yourself, less times with the oil dripping down your hand and arms), save the time of more "unnecessary" oil changes. And if what you are feeling is correct, (which it is not) why do you care about dirtier oil?... especially when you will change vehicles in a few yrs?
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