Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

driver100 said:
How about a new Dodge Demon? 840 horsepower, 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.
https://youtu.be/lc40DTp_eJc

You have to go through a lot of steps to get it to take off that fast!

I liked the front tire lift on takeoff.

abacomike · July 2017

driver100 said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:
When I bought the 2er the dealer appraised my MS3 and the sales advisor gave me an OTD number. I made a $500 lower counter offer, the SA took it to the SM and a couple of minutes later reappeared and said, "Congratulations, the car is yours!" Absolutely painless.
Sounds too fast....maybe you should have changed it at that point to $800 :@
We discussed this on the way up and figured I should say $600 and settle for $300 or $250. So, I said $600. He goes off to the tower and comes back pretty fast and says, "if I give you another $600 for your car will you buy the car right now"? Quickly I said, "YES". He says, "congratulations you just bought that car". He then gets up to get some paperwork and I look over at Son #1 and say, "I guess I left some money on the table". Son #1 has this funny look on his face and says, "yeah, but it couldn't have been much".

I don't think any buyer knows for sure how much money may be left on the table when they finally agree to a price. But how can you argue when the dealer agrees to your price?

jmonroe
But if you were willing to take only $250 more for your trade and the dealer
offered $600 more, then the dealer left $350 on the table. Sleep easy.
A great way to look at it - might even go into my book of "How to Rationalize Any Purchase".

I have been given prices way over what my target number was a few times. I have to say, I can't blame them for trying. Maybe some naive person walks in and thinks that is the actual price. But, once they know they aren't dealing with an amateur they better start getting more realistic pretty fast.

Question then for Mike....have you ever had a customer who paid full MSRP or bought a car...with a very small discount?

The only time I had customers who paid full MSRP or above MSRP was when a new model debuted and there was limited availability of the vehicle.

An example was when the 2003 (IIRC) Lexus SC430 came out. There was a waiting list of over 500 customers waiting for their car to come in. It was understood by the customer that the cost of their ordered vehicle would be MSRP+ dealer fees, taxes, registrations (they even had to sign an agreement when they ordered their car indicating they were fully aware that they would be paying MSRP). We could have charged over MSRP for those first hundred or so that trickled in, but dealership refused to charge more than MSRP.

The same was true when I was over at Infiniti. When the new 2005 or 2006 (again, IIRC) G35 Coupe came out. We were charging full MSRP for the first 6 or 7 months. That was a hot car and the pricing on the car was very reasonable compared to the Lexus SC430. The SC430 MSRP'd for about $65,000. The G35 Coupe MSRP'd for about $42,000 and as high as $50,000 depending upon model and equipment.

But I have had many customers who ended up paying MSRP because of leasing, not buying. On New Years Eve of the first year the SC430 came out, I had a customer walk in with his wife at about 4:00 PM in the afternoon. He wanted an SC430 in Beige with Beige seats. I remember that earlier that morning, a delivery truck came in with about 8 SC430's that were an additional allocation from the port for our dealership. I also remembered seeing a Beige one with Beige interior. I asked the GM of the dealership if that car was available and he said it was, at full MSRP. I walked the couple back to inventory and found the car. I MSRP'd for $67,500. He drove the car and both husband and wife fell in love with it. The man said he wanted to lese the car for 60 months. I came out with a lease price of $1035 per month. He asked if that was the best I could do. I went back to the manager and he said he cold lower it $15.00 a month. I gave the customer the lease price of $1020 per month with $1500 out of pocket. He agreed and I sold them the car.

About an hour later, I went back to the manager with all the paperwork, signatures and a check for $1500. He asked me if I had any idea how much my commission would be on the deal. I guessed about $1800, which was about the average commission. He said I as way off. He asked me to guess again. So I guessed $2500. He laughed at me - and told me it was more than twice that amount. He said my face turned red when he told me that. When I got my paycheck for that 2 week period, it showed $6200 because I had sold 39 cars that month which raised my commission percentage to 40%. I was totally shocked. But that is an example of how much a dealership can make selling a car as a leased vehicle. And remember, the customer would have paid almost anything to get his hands on an SC430 at the time.

I, personally, had no idea what the profit on that deal was going to be because I rarely leased those SC430's because of the high lease price per month. Most people just bought them. If I had known ahead of time, I probably would have told the customer to offer less - I really think that making that kind of money off a lease is heresy - just my opinion.

sda · July 2017

I have never paid MSRP though some have been close. For about 10 years I was a loyal repeat customer at a local VW dealership, had built a nice rapport and referred business to the same salesman. He was a no nonsense guy who had good knowledge of their product and knew I wasn't a person to waste his time. In '98 the B5(?) Passat V6 came out and they had one that I liked and it was a 5 speed. They wanted full sticker. I asked for a discount, they wouldn't budge. The salesman was miffed as well and knew I was serious about the purchase, but no deal. I bought a different car at another dealer instead. He did stay in touch and I bought another VW from him in 2000 and he retired soon after. I have not had that kind of rapport with a car salesman since.

jmonroe · July 2017

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:
When I bought the 2er the dealer appraised my MS3 and the sales advisor gave me an OTD number. I made a $500 lower counter offer, the SA took it to the SM and a couple of minutes later reappeared and said, "Congratulations, the car is yours!" Absolutely painless.
Sounds too fast....maybe you should have changed it at that point to $800 :@
We discussed this on the way up and figured I should say $600 and settle for $300 or $250. So, I said $600. He goes off to the tower and comes back pretty fast and says, "if I give you another $600 for your car will you buy the car right now"? Quickly I said, "YES". He says, "congratulations you just bought that car". He then gets up to get some paperwork and I look over at Son #1 and say, "I guess I left some money on the table". Son #1 has this funny look on his face and says, "yeah, but it couldn't have been much".

I don't think any buyer knows for sure how much money may be left on the table when they finally agree to a price. But how can you argue when the dealer agrees to your price?

jmonroe
But if you were willing to take only $250 more for your trade and the dealer
offered $600 more, then the dealer left $350 on the table. Sleep easy.
A great way to look at it - might even go into my book of "How to Rationalize Any Purchase".

I have been given prices way over what my target number was a few times. I have to say, I can't blame them for trying. Maybe some naive person walks in and thinks that is the actual price. But, once they know they aren't dealing with an amateur they better start getting more realistic pretty fast.

Question then for Mike....have you ever had a customer who paid full MSRP or bought a car...with a very small discount?
The only time I had customers who paid full MSRP or above MSRP was when a new model debuted and there was limited availability of the vehicle.

An example was when the 2003 (IIRC) Lexus SC430 came out. There was a waiting list of over 500 customers waiting for their car to come in. It was understood by the customer that the cost of their ordered vehicle would be MSRP+ dealer fees, taxes, registrations (they even had to sign an agreement when they ordered their car indicating they were fully aware that they would be paying MSRP). We could have charged over MSRP for those first hundred or so that trickled in, but dealership refused to charge more than MSRP.

The same was true when I was over at Infiniti. When the new 2005 or 2006 (again, IIRC) G35 Coupe came out. We were charging full MSRP for the first 6 or 7 months. That was a hot car and the pricing on the car was very reasonable compared to the Lexus SC430. The SC430 MSRP'd for about $65,000. The G35 Coupe MSRP'd for about $42,000 and as high as $50,000 depending upon model and equipment.

But I have had many customers who ended up paying MSRP because of leasing, not buying. On New Years Eve of the first year the SC430 came out, I had a customer walk in with his wife at about 4:00 PM in the afternoon. He wanted an SC430 in Beige with Beige seats. I remember that earlier that morning, a delivery truck came in with about 8 SC430's that were an additional allocation from the port for our dealership. I also remembered seeing a Beige one with Beige interior. I asked the GM of the dealership if that car was available and he said it was, at full MSRP. I walked the couple back to inventory and found the car. I MSRP'd for $67,500. He drove the car and both husband and wife fell in love with it. The man said he wanted to lese the car for 60 months. I came out with a lease price of $1035 per month. He asked if that was the best I could do. I went back to the manager and he said he cold lower it $15.00 a month. I gave the customer the lease price of $1020 per month with $1500 out of pocket. He agreed and I sold them the car.

About an hour later, I went back to the manager with all the paperwork, signatures and a check for $1500. He asked me if I had any idea how much my commission would be on the deal. I guessed about $1800, which was about the average commission. He said I as way off. He asked me to guess again. So I guessed $2500. He laughed at me - and told me it was more than twice that amount. He said my face turned red when he told me that. When I got my paycheck for that 2 week period, it showed $6200 because I had sold 39 cars that month which raised my commission percentage to 40%. I was totally shocked. But that is an example of how much a dealership can make selling a car as a leased vehicle. And remember, the customer would have paid almost anything to get his hands on an SC430 at the time.

I, personally, had no idea what the profit on that deal was going to be because I rarely leased those SC430's because of the high lease price per month. Most people just bought them. If I had known ahead of time, I probably would have told the customer to offer less - I really think that making that kind of money off a lease is heresy - just my opinion.

Thanks for confirming that not too many people, even those within a dealership, really know how much money is being made on a car sale. So, with that being the case, how can ANY off the street stiff, me included, think they know how to get the last dollar of profit? Be it OTD price or having the dealer give out his price first. There are way too many factors that someone buying does not have access to. Like new trunk money, new quota money, new inventory incentives and on and on. All we can do as buyers is do our research then give it our best guess and if the dealer hits our price, how can we be anything but satisfied ?

A little more about the '09 Genny that I bought from the dealer in the Akron area in '09. I told this back in SFTSFL days but omitted it in my post a little while back:

As I said, Son #1 and I had lots of time to discuss how I should try to get more for Mrs. j's '06 Sonata on the drive up to the dealership. We went through several scenarios but in the end we figured that since Mrs. j's Sonata was the virtual cream puff (just turned 13K miles on the drive to the dealership in March of '09) and they would not have to do much to the car, any dealer would kill to have it on their used car lot. So, knowing what we knew or thought we knew about the car biz, we reasoned that a lot of the money to me made on that deal would be from selling the '06 Sonata. I'm now more inclined to think there was more trunk money than we first thought. But that is just a guess on my part.

When I mentioned this in the SFTSFL post back in '09, @imidazol97 provided a link to the Ohio DMV so that I could track the sale of her car via entering the VIN, if I cared to do that. Since that would be interesting, I did it. About 10 days later I saw that they sold her car for around $2200 more than they paid me for it. Note that I said I SAW it about 10 days later, so given there has to be some time delay period with the dealer and the Ohio DMV entering their info, I have to think the car sold pretty damn fast (day or two) once it got to their lot.

Yes, it was that perfect of a car.

The dealer owns his car so he should tell me how much he wants for it. Just like I own the trade and I tell him how much I want for my car. In the end, when two reasonable people are involved, a sale is more likely than not.

I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that.

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1 · July 2017

Time for an iluvmysephia1 search for employment report. I had a 2nd interview, this one by Skype, with the Boss from Ogdensburg, NY, yesterday. Went very well. Had my first interview by conference phone call with the USAFA in Colorado Springs, CO. I'm working with recruiters for both of them. I don't have any way to guage how the Colorado Springs job might come out, but, if I had to guess, I think I'm either going to get an offer on the New York one, or, she's going to ask for another professional reference from me. Something like that. Mrs iluvmysephia1 knows my U.I. is running out, but isn't sure about upstate NY.

I'm getting used to the upstate NY idea. The St. Lawrence River accepts kayaks, so does nearby Black Lake. The Adirondack Mts. are very close and the place will just plain freeze for several months in the winter. So things are starting to get interesting here. Some snow tires for the Soul would probably make sense. Meanwhile I'm putting in app.'s wherever we would like to go nationwide, or, of course, in the KC Metro. Or even St. Joseph and Clinton, MO. Stay tuned. There is no doubt the slop they treat the roads with up there will rust the car out. So don't get too used to any one car and feel you must hang on to it, unless you can garage it and not drive it during the winter. Cars like the '68 Datsun 411 Bluebird, then!

jmonroe · July 2017

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Disaster averted....pretty much.

. He found a corroded trap under the sink that I had been meaning to get to and I pointed out a dripping outdoor faucet.

He said he could replace the faucet but tried tightening the nut first and that worked so he saved me some money. I let him do the sink since he now seemed trustworthy.
That's two pleasant experiences with this company so I guess they are now my go-to plumbers.
.
A good plumber, handyman, mechanic is worth his weight in gold. File his name in your address book under 1) his company name and his name if you like him, and may want to ask for him and 2) list him under P for Plumber. When you need him you will forget the name of the company, this way you can find it easily.

Good honest workers are hard to find, when you get one treat him well.
You are so right about that but some people can't appreciate that because they have always had it.

The guy that Mrs. j slept with last night is one of those guy. I keep telling her how good she has it but my words fall on deft ears. Even if I have to say so myself, I'm a pretty good pipe bender, wire twister, paint sloper on-er, deck builder, etc. However, all she has said for a few years is, "I don't know why you have all those tools in the garage you never use them any more". I remind her that when I bend a pipe it stays bent, when I twist a wire it stays twisted, when I slop on paint it stays slopped on, etc. etc.

Even when I cut the grass lately she has a comment like, "I remember when you did it faster and when you didn't stop halfway through cutting the back yard to sit down and rest. Let me explain that comment. The last few years I have learned to sit back every now and then to admire my work. Sipping on an ice tea while sitting on my deck is the way I have chosen to do it lately.

Now, if I could only learn how to cut my grass once a season, I'd be doing flip-flops on my deck and I wouldn't need any ice tea, either.

jmonroe

We make up for Mrs. J's shortcomings when it comes to the appreciation of jmonroe and his pipe-bending, wiring, deck-building and, most importantly, STORY-TELLING!

I will agree. I haven't heard about him waxing his Gennie lately though.....I think he waxed the red one a lot more.

Don't worry about my '15 Genny, I have given it two coats of wax since early May. I usually do Mts. j's Subie too but I put that off because it felt pretty good after it's first wash job this past Spring. So did my Genny but I waxed it anyway. RHIP, you know.

Fast forward to today when we were returning grandson #2 to his parents after his Only Kids Day that he weaseled into 2 days. It rained here today and as I'm getting into Mrs. j's Subie in Son #1's driveway, I noticed that it still beaded water very well. So, I might not even wax her car this season. Maybe I'll do it right before Winter since we use her car almost exclusively in the Winter.

Like I have said here before, the wax I use does not shine a car better than any other wax I have ever used but it is way ahead of the other waxes in longevity. Given the success I've had with that wax I have no plans to use any other wax. Zaino, Schmaino, I'm staying put.

It ain't broke, so I ain't fixing it.

jmonroe

jmonroe · July 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:
Time for an iluvmysephia1 search for employment report. I had a 2nd interview, this one by Skype, with the Boss from Ogdensburg, NY, yesterday. Went very well. Had my first interview by conference phone call with the USAFA in Colorado Springs, CO. I'm working with recruiters for both of them. I don't have any way to guage how the Colorado Springs job might come out, but, if I had to guess, I think I'm either going to get an offer on the New York one, or, she's going to ask for another professional reference from me. Something like that. Mrs iluvmysephia1 knows my U.I. is running out, but isn't sure about upstate NY.

I'm getting used to the upstate NY idea. The St. Lawrence River accepts kayaks, so does nearby Black Lake. The Adirondack Mts. are very close and the place will just plain freeze for several months in the winter. So things are starting to get interesting here. Some snow tires for the Soul would probably make sense. Meanwhile I'm putting in app.'s wherever we would like to go nationwide, or, of course, in the KC Metro. Or even St. Joseph and Clinton, MO. Stay tuned. There is no doubt the slop they treat the roads with up there will rust the car out. So don't get too used to any one car and feel you must hang on to it, unless you can garage it and not drive it during the winter. Cars like the '68 Datsun 411 Bluebird, then!

Good luck with your job search. You'll know when the right one comes along. Unless there is a big money difference you can be a little choosey.

If you go to the upstate NY place, you and @oldfarmer50 can do some tag-team posting. He might even find a hooptie Winter sled for you.

Again, good luck.

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1 · July 2017

Thanks, jmonroe. I was wondering where oldfarmer50 was at in NY state. I'm not one that freaks out during icy snowy driving, but I don't love it either. We'll see.

Colorado Springs has more rental houses available but they're more expensive.

ab348 · July 2017

Ventured out to the supermarket today and noticed that same (I assume) Hyundai Equus I saw a week or two back in the parking lot. Guy must live in the neighborhood. What jumped out at me as I was limping past it in the lot was the big "H" logo on the center of the trunklid, with the "EQUUS" lettering on the left end of the lid. The name lettering looked cheap, almost aftermarket, and the big Hyundai logo must have made these a bit of a hard sell given the price point. Not a good look.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:
When I bought the 2er the dealer appraised my MS3 and the sales advisor gave me an OTD number. I made a $500 lower counter offer, the SA took it to the SM and a couple of minutes later reappeared and said, "Congratulations, the car is yours!" Absolutely painless.
Sounds too fast....maybe you should have changed it at that point to $800 :@
We discussed this on the way up and figured I should say $600 and settle for $300 or $250. So, I said $600. He goes off to the tower and comes back pretty fast and says, "if I give you another $600 for your car will you buy the car right now"? Quickly I said, "YES". He says, "congratulations you just bought that car". He then gets up to get some paperwork and I look over at Son #1 and say, "I guess I left some money on the table". Son #1 has this funny look on his face and says, "yeah, but it couldn't have been much".

I don't think any buyer knows for sure how much money may be left on the table when they finally agree to a price. But how can you argue when the dealer agrees to your price?

jmonroe
But if you were willing to take only $250 more for your trade and the dealer
offered $600 more, then the dealer left $350 on the table. Sleep easy.
A great way to look at it - might even go into my book of "How to Rationalize Any Purchase".

I have been given prices way over what my target number was a few times. I have to say, I can't blame them for trying. Maybe some naive person walks in and thinks that is the actual price. But, once they know they aren't dealing with an amateur they better start getting more realistic pretty fast.

Question then for Mike....have you ever had a customer who paid full MSRP or bought a car...with a very small discount?
The only time I had customers who paid full MSRP or above MSRP was when a new model debuted and there was limited availability of the vehicle.

An example was when the 2003 (IIRC) Lexus SC430 came out. There was a waiting list of over 500 customers waiting for their car to come in. It was understood by the customer that the cost of their ordered vehicle would be MSRP+ dealer fees, taxes, registrations (they even had to sign an agreement when they ordered their car indicating they were fully aware that they would be paying MSRP). We could have charged over MSRP for those first hundred or so that trickled in, but dealership refused to charge more than MSRP.

The same was true when I was over at Infiniti. When the new 2005 or 2006 (again, IIRC) G35 Coupe came out. We were charging full MSRP for the first 6 or 7 months. That was a hot car and the pricing on the car was very reasonable compared to the Lexus SC430. The SC430 MSRP'd for about $65,000. The G35 Coupe MSRP'd for about $42,000 and as high as $50,000 depending upon model and equipment.

But I have had many customers who ended up paying MSRP because of leasing, not buying. On New Years Eve of the first year the SC430 came out, I had a customer walk in with his wife at about 4:00 PM in the afternoon. He wanted an SC430 in Beige with Beige seats. I remember that earlier that morning, a delivery truck came in with about 8 SC430's that were an additional allocation from the port for our dealership. I also remembered seeing a Beige one with Beige interior. I asked the GM of the dealership if that car was available and he said it was, at full MSRP. I walked the couple back to inventory and found the car. I MSRP'd for $67,500. He drove the car and both husband and wife fell in love with it. The man said he wanted to lese the car for 60 months. I came out with a lease price of $1035 per month. He asked if that was the best I could do. I went back to the manager and he said he cold lower it $15.00 a month. I gave the customer the lease price of $1020 per month with $1500 out of pocket. He agreed and I sold them the car.

About an hour later, I went back to the manager with all the paperwork, signatures and a check for $1500. He asked me if I had any idea how much my commission would be on the deal. I guessed about $1800, which was about the average commission. He said I as way off. He asked me to guess again. So I guessed $2500. He laughed at me - and told me it was more than twice that amount. He said my face turned red when he told me that. When I got my paycheck for that 2 week period, it showed $6200 because I had sold 39 cars that month which raised my commission percentage to 40%. I was totally shocked. But that is an example of how much a dealership can make selling a car as a leased vehicle. And remember, the customer would have paid almost anything to get his hands on an SC430 at the time.

I, personally, had no idea what the profit on that deal was going to be because I rarely leased those SC430's because of the high lease price per month. Most people just bought them. If I had known ahead of time, I probably would have told the customer to offer less - I really think that making that kind of money off a lease is heresy - just my opinion.

What kind of dope leases a car for 60 months for $62,700 when he could buy it for $67,500? Did he think it would be worth less than $4800 after 5 years?

explorerx4 · July 2017

@iluv,
Once you land somewhere, you will figure out what to adjust.
If you end up in NY, make sure you have a passport.
You can take some nice side trips to Canada.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:
Time for an iluvmysephia1 search for employment report. I had a 2nd interview, this one by Skype, with the Boss from Ogdensburg, NY, yesterday. Went very well. Had my first interview by conference phone call with the USAFA in Colorado Springs, CO. I'm working with recruiters for both of them. I don't have any way to guage how the Colorado Springs job might come out, but, if I had to guess, I think I'm either going to get an offer on the New York one, or, she's going to ask for another professional reference from me. Something like that. Mrs iluvmysephia1 knows my U.I. is running out, but isn't sure about upstate NY.

I'm getting used to the upstate NY idea. The St. Lawrence River accepts kayaks, so does nearby Black Lake. The Adirondack Mts. are very close and the place will just plain freeze for several months in the winter. So things are starting to get interesting here. Some snow tires for the Soul would probably make sense. Meanwhile I'm putting in app.'s wherever we would like to go nationwide, or, of course, in the KC Metro. Or even St. Joseph and Clinton, MO. Stay tuned. There is no doubt the slop they treat the roads with up there will rust the car out. So don't get too used to any one car and feel you must hang on to it, unless you can garage it and not drive it during the winter. Cars like the '68 Datsun 411 Bluebird, then!

Ogdensburg is about halfway between driver100 and myself and is pretty far out there. Great if you like rural life and outdoor activities. You'll want to stay out of the Adirondacks during black fly season. You're dead on about the salt killing your car so you might want to buy a cheap winter hooptie to sacrifice. Get it before you move because everything around here is a rust bucket. Also be sure you figure in the taxes before you take a job. Depending on the property tax bill you might need a 30% higher salary to break even with lower taxed states.

NY is beautiful especially in the summer but the 2 million people who have left in the last 15 years must know something.

explorerx4 · July 2017

I guess someone bought the judge on this one.
Fintail is going to say 'Just another day in the neighborhood'.

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/07/21/driver-who-crashed-at-157-mph-dodges-jail.html

iluvmysephia1 · July 2017

oldfarmer50, we would be looking to rent a house in that area, either Ogdensburg, Canton or as far as Potsdam, so no worries about the 30% higher salary necessity. I am liking the rural thing as well as the pretty countryside. Also, going to Ottawa or the home of my third favorite band, The Tragically Hip, in Kingston, Ontario.

And the Boss said they all get the enhanced license to cross in to Canada. Is that what you have?

imidazol97 · July 2017

I got some smear lines of auto was from around the gas filler where gasoline had splattered on the polish onto my windows when I wiped the paint with the same towel I used to wipe the windows. It left light lines that show the rain being repelled from those areas.

The type of wax was Mothers Spray Wax that I had put on a couple of months earlier when my son flew out of town. Wax before that was a normal Mothers Brazilian Carnauba wax. I am sure gasoline plattered onto the wax hours earlier, then a rain, then the streaking from the towel left on the windows.

What's a good way to get rid of the polish streaks. I tried dish detergent water and Invisible Glass cleaner.

driver100 · July 2017

Mike, Thanks for the post about MSRP. I didn't think most people were that astute, and a few would pay full price for anything.

Oldfarmer, the guy may have paid out the cost of the car on the lease but the interest would have amounted to a pretty good amount in those days too.

JMonroe, Glad to hear you are still waxing your cars on schedule

Iluv....this is an important concept that I have thought through very carefully. You can live in a lot of places, it is the activities you do and the friends you have that make your place of residence work, If you aren't happy in a fairly decent location you won't be somewhere else. As long as you can do the things you enjoy, you will be happy.

Enhanced license could be a Nexus card. You apply, they interview you, check your background, and if you seem to be a good citizen with no problems you can get a NEXUS card which really speeds you through the border.

jmonroe · July 2017

imidazol97 said:
I got some smear lines of auto was from around the gas filler where gasoline had splattered on the polish onto my windows when I wiped the paint with the same towel I used to wipe the windows. It left light lines that show the rain being repelled from those areas.

The type of wax was Mothers Spray Wax that I had put on a couple of months earlier when my son flew out of town. Wax before that was a normal Mothers Brazilian Carnauba wax. I am sure gasoline plattered onto the wax hours earlier, then a rain, then the streaking from the towel left on the windows.

What's a good way to get rid of the polish streaks. I tried dish detergent water and Invisible Glass cleaner.

I have always had success with plain ole rubbing alcohol.

For security purposes please leave your CC number at the bottom of your next post.

jmonroe

abacomike · July 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

When I bought the 2er the dealer appraised my MS3 and the sales advisor gave me an OTD number. I made a $500 lower counter offer, the SA took it to the SM and a couple of minutes later reappeared and said, "Congratulations, the car is yours!" Absolutely painless.
Sounds too fast....maybe you should have changed it at that point to $800 :@
We discussed this on the way up and figured I should say $600 and settle for $300 or $250. So, I said $600. He goes off to the tower and comes back pretty fast and says, "if I give you another $600 for your car will you buy the car right now"? Quickly I said, "YES". He says, "congratulations you just bought that car". He then gets up to get some paperwork and I look over at Son #1 and say, "I guess I left some money on the table". Son #1 has this funny look on his face and says, "yeah, but it couldn't have been much". I don't think any buyer knows for sure how much money may be left on the table when they finally agree to a price. But how can you argue when the dealer agrees to your price? jmonroe
But if you were willing to take only $250 more for your trade and the dealer offered $600 more, then the dealer left $350 on the table. Sleep easy.
A great way to look at it - might even go into my book of "How to Rationalize Any Purchase". I have been given prices way over what my target number was a few times. I have to say, I can't blame them for trying. Maybe some naive person walks in and thinks that is the actual price. But, once they know they aren't dealing with an amateur they better start getting more realistic pretty fast. Question then for Mike....have you ever had a customer who paid full MSRP or bought a car...with a very small discount?
The only time I had customers who paid full MSRP or above MSRP was when a new model debuted and there was limited availability of the vehicle. An example was when the 2003 (IIRC) Lexus SC430 came out. There was a waiting list of over 500 customers waiting for their car to come in. It was understood by the customer that the cost of their ordered vehicle would be MSRP+ dealer fees, taxes, registrations (they even had to sign an agreement when they ordered their car indicating they were fully aware that they would be paying MSRP). We could have charged over MSRP for those first hundred or so that trickled in, but dealership refused to charge more than MSRP. The same was true when I was over at Infiniti. When the new 2005 or 2006 (again, IIRC) G35 Coupe came out. We were charging full MSRP for the first 6 or 7 months. That was a hot car and the pricing on the car was very reasonable compared to the Lexus SC430. The SC430 MSRP'd for about $65,000. The G35 Coupe MSRP'd for about $42,000 and as high as $50,000 depending upon model and equipment. But I have had many customers who ended up paying MSRP because of leasing, not buying. On New Years Eve of the first year the SC430 came out, I had a customer walk in with his wife at about 4:00 PM in the afternoon. He wanted an SC430 in Beige with Beige seats. I remember that earlier that morning, a delivery truck came in with about 8 SC430's that were an additional allocation from the port for our dealership. I also remembered seeing a Beige one with Beige interior. I asked the GM of the dealership if that car was available and he said it was, at full MSRP. I walked the couple back to inventory and found the car. I MSRP'd for $67,500. He drove the car and both husband and wife fell in love with it. The man said he wanted to lese the car for 60 months. I came out with a lease price of $1035 per month. He asked if that was the best I could do. I went back to the manager and he said he cold lower it $15.00 a month. I gave the customer the lease price of $1020 per month with $1500 out of pocket. He agreed and I sold them the car. About an hour later, I went back to the manager with all the paperwork, signatures and a check for $1500. He asked me if I had any idea how much my commission would be on the deal. I guessed about $1800, which was about the average commission. He said I as way off. He asked me to guess again. So I guessed $2500. He laughed at me - and told me it was more than twice that amount. He said my face turned red when he told me that. When I got my paycheck for that 2 week period, it showed $6200 because I had sold 39 cars that month which raised my commission percentage to 40%. I was totally shocked. But that is an example of how much a dealership can make selling a car as a leased vehicle. And remember, the customer would have paid almost anything to get his hands on an SC430 at the time. I, personally, had no idea what the profit on that deal was going to be because I rarely leased those SC430's because of the high lease price per month. Most people just bought them. If I had known ahead of time, I probably would have told the customer to offer less - I really think that making that kind of money off a lease is heresy - just my opinion.
What kind of dope leases a car for 60 months for $62,700 when he could buy it for $67,500? Did he think it would be worth less than $4800 after 5 years?

Don't forget money factor interest!!!

fordfool · July 2017

bwia said:
I was wondering what the biological effect on the human body would be at such high acceleration (0 - 60 in 2.4 seconds) but a human withstand up to 83 g's albeit for a very short time.

Googling "rocket sleds" that the air force used to test acceleration effects of jet takeoff and ejection seats reveals that test pilots would pull upwards of 45 g's so that a 180 pound man would "weigh" about 4 tons. Those sleds would reach 200-300 mph in 2 or 3 seconds. The sleds were on rails with about 4 J2 rockets strapped to the back.

A top-fuel dragster pulls "only" 5.5 g's accelerating from 0 to 100 mph in under 1 second.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:
oldfarmer50, we would be looking to rent a house in that area, either Ogdensburg, Canton or as far as Potsdam, so no worries about the 30% higher salary necessity. I am liking the rural thing as well as the pretty countryside. Also, going to Ottawa or the home of my third favorite band, The Tragically Hip, in Kingston, Ontario.

And the Boss said they all get the enhanced license to cross in to Canada. Is that what you have?

You'd be an easy drive to Canada through Johnstown. That area is rural but pretty flat IIRC from my days on the road. The mountains would be south of you.

Don't have the enhanced license but I may consider it when I have to decide what to do with my CDL at renewal next year. I'm about 150 miles from the border...200 from Montreal.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

imidazol97 said:
I got some smear lines of auto was from around the gas filler where gasoline had splattered on the polish onto my windows when I wiped the paint with the same towel I used to wipe the windows. It left light lines that show the rain being repelled from those areas.

The type of wax was Mothers Spray Wax that I had put on a couple of months earlier when my son flew out of town. Wax before that was a normal Mothers Brazilian Carnauba wax. I am sure gasoline plattered onto the wax hours earlier, then a rain, then the streaking from the towel left on the windows.

What's a good way to get rid of the polish streaks. I tried dish detergent water and Invisible Glass cleaner.

Use newspaper instead of paper towels. It works to get streaks off glass like nothing I've seen.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:
When I bought the 2er the dealer appraised my MS3 and the sales advisor gave me an OTD number. I made a $500 lower counter offer, the SA took it to the SM and a couple of minutes later reappeared and said, "Congratulations, the car is yours!" Absolutely painless.
Sounds too fast....maybe you should have changed it at that point to $800 :@
We discussed this on the way up and figured I should say $600 and settle for $300 or $250. So, I said $600. He goes off to the tower and comes back pretty fast and says, "if I give you another $600 for your car will you buy the car right now"? Quickly I said, "YES". He says, "congratulations you just bought that car". He then gets up to get some paperwork and I look over at Son #1 and say, "I guess I left some money on the table". Son #1 has this funny look on his face and says, "yeah, but it couldn't have been much".

I don't think any buyer knows for sure how much money may be left on the table when they finally agree to a price. But how can you argue when the dealer agrees to your price?

jmonroe
But if you were willing to take only $250 more for your trade and the dealer
offered $600 more, then the dealer left $350 on the table. Sleep easy.
A great way to look at it - might even go into my book of "How to Rationalize Any Purchase".

I have been given prices way over what my target number was a few times. I have to say, I can't blame them for trying. Maybe some naive person walks in and thinks that is the actual price. But, once they know they aren't dealing with an amateur they better start getting more realistic pretty fast.

Question then for Mike....have you ever had a customer who paid full MSRP or bought a car...with a very small discount?
The only time I had customers who paid full MSRP or above MSRP was when a new model debuted and there was limited availability of the vehicle.

An example was when the 2003 (IIRC) Lexus SC430 came out. There was a waiting list of over 500 customers waiting for their car to come in. It was understood by the customer that the cost of their ordered vehicle would be MSRP+ dealer fees, taxes, registrations (they even had to sign an agreement when they ordered their car indicating they were fully aware that they would be paying MSRP). We could have charged over MSRP for those first hundred or so that trickled in, but dealership refused to charge more than MSRP.

The same was true when I was over at Infiniti. When the new 2005 or 2006 (again, IIRC) G35 Coupe came out. We were charging full MSRP for the first 6 or 7 months. That was a hot car and the pricing on the car was very reasonable compared to the Lexus SC430. The SC430 MSRP'd for about $65,000. The G35 Coupe MSRP'd for about $42,000 and as high as $50,000 depending upon model and equipment.

But I have had many customers who ended up paying MSRP because of leasing, not buying. On New Years Eve of the first year the SC430 came out, I had a customer walk in with his wife at about 4:00 PM in the afternoon. He wanted an SC430 in Beige with Beige seats. I remember that earlier that morning, a delivery truck came in with about 8 SC430's that were an additional allocation from the port for our dealership. I also remembered seeing a Beige one with Beige interior. I asked the GM of the dealership if that car was available and he said it was, at full MSRP. I walked the couple back to inventory and found the car. I MSRP'd for $67,500. He drove the car and both husband and wife fell in love with it. The man said he wanted to lese the car for 60 months. I came out with a lease price of $1035 per month. He asked if that was the best I could do. I went back to the manager and he said he cold lower it $15.00 a month. I gave the customer the lease price of $1020 per month with $1500 out of pocket. He agreed and I sold them the car.

About an hour later, I went back to the manager with all the paperwork, signatures and a check for $1500. He asked me if I had any idea how much my commission would be on the deal. I guessed about $1800, which was about the average commission. He said I as way off. He asked me to guess again. So I guessed $2500. He laughed at me - and told me it was more than twice that amount. He said my face turned red when he told me that. When I got my paycheck for that 2 week period, it showed $6200 because I had sold 39 cars that month which raised my commission percentage to 40%. I was totally shocked. But that is an example of how much a dealership can make selling a car as a leased vehicle. And remember, the customer would have paid almost anything to get his hands on an SC430 at the time.

I, personally, had no idea what the profit on that deal was going to be because I rarely leased those SC430's because of the high lease price per month. Most people just bought them. If I had known ahead of time, I probably would have told the customer to offer less - I really think that making that kind of money off a lease is heresy - just my opinion.
What kind of dope leases a car for 60 months for $62,700 when he could buy it for $67,500? Did he think it would be worth less than $4800 after 5 years?

Don't forget money factor interest!!!

Talk about baby seals getting clubbed.

iluvmysephia1 · July 2017

IIRC she said it was an enhanced license, though I have been wrong before.

driver100 - I think that that's a fair enough outlook about the location one is at. And I have thought out what the Mrs. and I would need to have a decent life there and it's available there. It turns in to a positive thinking kinda thing.

thebean · July 2017

imidazol97 said:

I got some smear lines of auto was from around the gas filler where gasoline had splattered on the polish onto my windows when I wiped the paint with the same towel I used to wipe the windows. It left light lines that show the rain being repelled from those areas. The type of wax was Mothers Spray Wax that I had put on a couple of months earlier when my son flew out of town. Wax before that was a normal Mothers Brazilian Carnauba wax. I am sure gasoline plattered onto the wax hours earlier, then a rain, then the streaking from the towel left on the windows. What's a good way to get rid of the polish streaks. I tried dish detergent water and Invisible Glass cleaner.

I have had luck with Mr. Clean Magic Eraser cleaning stuff from glass. I have used it on both house windows and car windows that had streaks from calcium and other stuff. The wife keeps these things around for all types of cleaning mishaps.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

Amazing how our activites on the net are tracked. I used the Edmunds appraisal tool to value a car on the Tampa craigslist and now the ads on this page have switched to car dealers from Florida.

Big brother is watching.

tjc78 · July 2017

Adjust the privacy settings in your browser to the next highest settti g. Maybe disable third party cookies?

bwia · July 2017

Just read this provocative opinion piece, Why Canada is able to do things better. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/opinion-why-canada-is-able-to-do-things-better/ar-BBEB4JF?li=BBnbfcN

In short, the writer posits that America's ills can be solved by raising taxes.

Enjoy!

imidazol97 · July 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
Amazing how our activites on the net are tracked. I used the Edmunds appraisal tool to value a car on the Tampa craigslist and now the ads on this page have switched to car dealers from Florida.

Big brother is watching.

I use at least two programs to scan and remove various cookies and records that the sites use to glean info about where you've been on the web. Cleanup! and CCleaner, both free. I occasionally use a couple of others to do deeper scans. This is along with running spybotsd and malwarebytes occasionally.

One thing I found that helped is to log out of facebook when done. It wants to stay active in the background collecting info. I still believe it lurks anyhow, knowing the attitude of the big social media folks about our right to privacy--we ain't got none. If I could, I"d completely delete facebook which isn't easy to do from what I can tell.

ab348 · July 2017

An odd article in some ways, like the reference to the "state of Ontario" - we call them provinces here. There are some Canadians who think we don't pay enough taxes, actually. They tend to think that more govt is better, and want govt to inject itself into other areas of life or do more with what they already are involved with. I am not of that view, but think it comes down to a matter of degree. I would agree with him that from what I see, US taxes are too low to sustain many of the things govt should be doing. But swing too far the other way and you end up like Canada, with essentially a welfare state that those who have done well for themselves pay for, and which is never enough for those on the receiving end. The other thing to remember is that Canada's military is totally unlike that of the US, with very different roles on the world stage.

The thing common to both countries is the inefficiency and waste whenever govt does something, which is in my view the biggest problem with having all of our public services. Having spent most of my working life in govt here I saw it first-hand. It just eats money. That is by design and is what bureaucracy does. In trying to ensure nobody gets too much influence on the public purse, the oversight and approval levels mean that decisions take forever and get watered-down or otherwise moved away from the original intent. Services, be they public or private, need to have at least some focus on the client/customer, with measurable outcomes and consequences for not meeting expectations, and govt simply does that very poorly. You can't fire people in the public service here regardless of how bad a job they do, you just move them around until they retire. No single person is ever responsible for something that goes wrong in that environment.

The final thing on this is that the two national cultures are quite different as we each come from different origins - the USA with a revolution, while Canada was far more sedate in its creation. Even today this shapes how people think and how much they trust govt to do things. Don't overlook that.

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Amazing how our activites on the net are tracked. I used the Edmunds appraisal tool to value a car on the Tampa craigslist and now the ads on this page have switched to car dealers from Florida.

Big brother is watching.
I use at least two programs to scan and remove various cookies and records that the sites use to glean info about where you've been on the web. Cleanup! and CCleaner, both free. I occasionally use a couple of others to do deeper scans. This is along with running spybotsd and malwarebytes occasionally.

One thing I found that helped is to log out of facebook when done. It wants to stay active in the background collecting info. I still believe it lurks anyhow, knowing the attitude of the big social media folks about our right to privacy--we ain't got none. If I could, I"d completely delete facebook which isn't easy to do from what I can tell.

What's Facebook?

Actually every once in awhile I just delete all cookies and web data. Seems to clear things up. The only problem is that my financial web site asks me to prove who I am before I can look at my account.

fintail · July 2017

Bureaucracy is not really different in the US, positions where one is effectively untouchable in many roles after a certain time, and departments just do what they can to keep budgets intact, with insane pension systems that give a ROI unattainable for any normal investor, where you can retire at 55-60 with 80% of your highest income and COLAs guaranteed for life. It can't last forever.

Taxes aren't the evil, it's all about what you receive for taxes. My counterpart in developed Europe may pay a bit more in taxes, but receives more benefit for each unit of tax paid. A couple of ER visits in the past few years brought that home for me.

I think the scope and size of the praetorian sector is the key difference between Canada and the US, along with healthcare (the funds from fund the other depending on where one lives). It's a significant economic impact in the US, and many base their identity around it. Otherwise, for example,Vancouver is awfully like Seattle in demographics and attitudes (at least Vancouver had the stones to enact a pittance tax on black money real estate speculators, Seattle needs one too), and some Canadian areas away from urban cores (at least in my experience in BC) aren't that much different from their American counterparts - the "redneck" identity is alive and well. I think the same might be true say for ON vs NY.

houdini1 · July 2017

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Amazing how our activites on the net are tracked. I used the Edmunds appraisal tool to value a car on the Tampa craigslist and now the ads on this page have switched to car dealers from Florida.

Big brother is watching.
I use at least two programs to scan and remove various cookies and records that the sites use to glean info about where you've been on the web. Cleanup! and CCleaner, both free. I occasionally use a couple of others to do deeper scans. This is along with running spybotsd and malwarebytes occasionally.

One thing I found that helped is to log out of facebook when done. It wants to stay active in the background collecting info. I still believe it lurks anyhow, knowing the attitude of the big social media folks about our right to privacy--we ain't got none. If I could, I"d completely delete facebook which isn't easy to do from what I can tell.

Imid, thanks for that tip to log out of FB. I get tired of getting texts about someone I don't know posting a new picture !

driver100 · July 2017

Ab and Fin....great well thought out comments.
I think both countries need a government department that just looks at trimming waste. We once had an ultra conservative gov't in Ontario that really cut back on money given to the provinces in various fields....one being healthcare. The provinces weren't happy, but they found ways to cut the waste. Make budgets that trim 10% and see if cuts in wasteful spending can be made.

The other big factor is one ab mentioned, how our countries got started. Since the US started with a revolution, guns are all important in defending yourself against a rogue gov't. I understand that and it does make sense in many ways. We evolved, so we assume our gov't will be looking out for us....it probably will, but I don't know.

driver100 · July 2017

Classic case of government overspending in Toronto:

People were falling down a slope in a park.
City said stairs would cost $65000 to $150000 to install.
Man buys wood and builds stairs for $550!

City says they aren't safe...........city could be sued if someone was injured.
Very Conservative mayor got involved, got it reviewed, stairs were built and installed for $10000!

And that my friends happens all the time.

Toronto Star

abacomike · July 2017

If I could play golf as well as Jordan Spieth, I could die with a magnificent smile on my face. What a phenom!

houdini1 · July 2017

abacomike said:
If I could play golf as well as Jordan Spieth, I could die with a magnificent smile on my face. What a phenom!

X 2.

houdini1 · July 2017

We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car. My last 3 cars have been used cars. I love the Lexus LS, but I don't love the $85 to $95,000 new MSRP. I try to find a car I want, 1 or 2 years old, around 10,000 miles, figure out a fair price, check the car fax. etc., but before I show much interest in that particular car, I take my current car in for an oil change or tire rotation, etc. While chatting with my friendly Lexus technician, I say, oh, by the way, would you check this serial # (of the car I am interested in) and print out the service history for me? No matter which Lexus dealer you are at, they have the complete service history on almost any Lexus, no matter where it was sold. Just give them the serial #. No one has ever refused, and seem happy to do it. The report shows every time the car visited a Lexus dealer, what it was in for, parts supplied, etc. Very detailed. It is many times more valuable than a carfax, and things show up there that you will never see on a carfax.

I don't know if other make dealers have this info available or if they will share it with you, but it is certainly worth a try.

iluvmysephia1 · July 2017

Adjust the privacy settings in your browser to the next highest settting. Maybe disable third party cookies?

If we get too low of a setting, the browser won't be able to "remember" and fill in pre-fills for us and things like that. But I think that, if you're worried about Big Brother watching you on your computer, then yes, turn up the settings to cut down on cookie tracking.

After all this talk about cookies, I am hungry for a cookie. I'll leave my cookie setting the same. And as soon as I can get some more Seattle Seahawk football on my TV, the better. If I go to upstate NY, I don't know why I'd not sign up for NFL Sunday Ticket again this year. Let's play football, gentlemen.

iluvmysephia1 · July 2017

Actually got to test my elementary diagnostic skills this morning here in KC. Our son wanted ta head out to get us some breakfast and wanted to take his '02 Buick Park Avenue, which has sat for 3-4 days at least. He turned it over and it wouldn't start. I asked him how often this happens.

"Never, Dad."

"Give it a minute and let's give it another shot," was my answer.

He tried it again and nothing. It wasn't getting far enough along with getting the starter involved.

"How is your battery?"

"Never had a problem."

Well, he's only had this Buick for a month or 5 weeks. I started thinking low battery. I don't have a tester but I do have jumper cables. I put them on and he connected his end to the Buick, I started up the Kia and told him to wait just a minute and try firing it up.

"Vroom" the large white sedan whooshed back ta life. How nice and satisfying - to get his Buick up and going again.

jmonroe · July 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:
Actually got to test my elementary diagnostic skills this morning here in KC. Our son wanted ta head out to get us some breakfast and wanted to take his '02 Buick Park Avenue, which has sat for 3-4 days at least. He turned it over and it wouldn't start. I asked him how often this happens.

"Never, Dad."

"Give it a minute and let's give it another shot," was my answer.

He tried it again and nothing. It wasn't getting far enough along with getting the starter involved.

"How is your battery?"

"Never had a problem."

Well, he's only had this Buick for a month or 5 weeks. I started thinking low battery. I don't have a tester but I do have jumper cables. I put them on and he connected his end to the Buick, I started up the Kia and told him to wait just a minute and try firing it up.

"Vroom" the large white sedan whooshed back ta life. How nice and satisfying - to get his Buick up and going again.

It never hurts every now and then to show the kids that Dads come in handy when help is needed.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

houdini1 said:
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car. My last 3 cars have been used cars. I love the Lexus LS, but I don't love the $85 to $95,000 new MSRP. I try to find a car I want, 1 or 2 years old, around 10,000 miles, figure out a fair price, check the car fax. etc., but before I show much interest in that particular car, I take my current car in for an oil change or tire rotation, etc. While chatting with my friendly Lexus technician, I say, oh, by the way, would you check this serial # (of the car I am interested in) and print out the service history for me? No matter which Lexus dealer you are at, they have the complete service history on almost any Lexus, no matter where it was sold. Just give them the serial #. No one has ever refused, and seem happy to do it. The report shows every time the car visited a Lexus dealer, what it was in for, parts supplied, etc. Very detailed. It is many times more valuable than a carfax, and things show up there that you will never see on a carfax.

I don't know if other make dealers have this info available or if they will share it with you, but it is certainly worth a try.

Whenever I've sold a car I first gather any repair and maintaince records I can. Any honest seller should be willing to do the same.

Of course my cars tend to be one to two decades old. On a one or two year old car I would only be worried about accident history.

What info did the dealer provide on a 10,000 mile car? Did you see anything that would make you decide against buying?

tjc78 · July 2017

On a forum I frequent there was a Ford tech that would quite often run service history on a particular car. Very good thing to do on a late model used car.

ab348 · July 2017

driver100 said:
Ab and Fin....great well thought out comments.
I think both countries need a government department that just looks at trimming waste. We once had an ultra conservative gov't in Ontario that really cut back on money given to the provinces in various fields....one being healthcare. The provinces weren't happy, but they found ways to cut the waste. Make budgets that trim 10% and see if cuts in wasteful spending can be made.

The other big factor is one ab mentioned, how our countries got started. Since the US started with a revolution, guns are all important in defending yourself against a rogue gov't. I understand that and it does make sense in many ways. We evolved, so we assume our gov't will be looking out for us....it probably will, but I don't know.

The problem with an agency looking for waste is that it might run headlong into the powerful entrenched interests within the bureaucracy unless it had such broad powers that itself might become dangerous for the survival of the sitting govt. I have two firsthand examples.

A former boss of mine eventually became Deputy Minister (think CEO) of the province's community service dept, the agency that administers welfare programs. They never have enough money to meet the demands for their programs, and as a Chartered Accountant and a sharp financial guy he seemed a good fit. After he was there for a while, they announced they were closing a number of homes for single mothers and their kids. These clients were increasingly getting what they needed from other types of programs, the homes themselves had very low occupancy numbers and needed big renovations and upgrades if they were to continue, so it seemed a no-brainer.

Well! The OUTRAGE in the press was immediate and loud. How could they do this to these poor people, what about the children, etc etc. It was a firestorm. The government quickly backed down but my guy was made the fall guy. He was quickly shuffled off to a gulag agency where he was allowed to do very little until he retired a couple of years later.

The second example was one of my own. For a few years I worked in the Finance Dept of the provincial govt here in a group that was designed to do exactly what you described. We had no trouble finding lots of examples of waste. One I was involved with centered on fleet management. Each department that had any number of vehicles did their own fleet management. I even saw one example where two govt garages were side by side, each duplicating what the other did, with a fence between them to keep them separate. Just absurd. But when we presented all of our findings on this and other similar examples, the Deputy Ministers we were presenting to just sat there stone-faced. They knew that making such changes would get the union riled up, people in rural communities would lose good govt jobs, the press would be negative, and their own scope and departmental budgets would be reduced. Needless to say, nothing changed.

driver100 · July 2017

houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

roadburner · July 2017

driver100 said:
houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

fintail · July 2017

It will, but only after it looks after itself first. The hypocritical nanny state will be hard to derail - look at Australia and the UK.

Just as in the US, I have a bad feeling dumbed-down populism and excessive deregulation will be hard to contain. Of course, so many of those looking to deconstruct can connect their meal ticket to public sector largesse.

driver100 said:
Ab and Fin....great well thought out comments. We evolved, so we assume our gov't will be looking out for us....it probably will, but I don't know.

explorerx4 · July 2017

I know there are not too many sports fans here and not sure how many believe in karma.
Probably just coincidence.

Went for a walk today and noticed to 20+ year old Civic in a neighbor's driveway seemed to have a leak.
It didn't seem like they were around(didn't see their van), so I took a look under the car and was actively leaking some kind of fluid.

On the way back home, the leak seemed to have slowed, so I thought 'great', then realized if they didn't come back for a few days, they would have no idea something was leaking.

I decided to leave them a message and put a plastic bowl under the car to catch whatever was leaking out.
Just after I walked by the house, the garage door opened.
I waited for someone to come out, but nobody did, so I went up the driveway and told my neighbor the car had a leak.
He thanked me for letting him know and I went home.

Now, about the sports part.
A few years ago, I went to my dream college football game, ND vs USC.
About an hour after talking to my neighbor, my wife got a call that she had won a charity raffle for that very game next October.
Includes 2 tickets, a generous amount of money for transportation(or whatever you want) and 2 nights in a hotel.
Hotel rooms are at least $300 a night on football weekend.

driver100 · July 2017

Ab, that is another thought I have had. It is the nature of democratic governments to have waste. I still think cutbacks can be made. We had a Premiere, Mike Harris who slashed spending, everyone hated him and he lost the next election, but he balanced the books for the last time the books were balanced. He slashed budgets....and a lot of waste was eliminated.

Roadburner
I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

Research is good, but when it comes to used cars they are all a little different. Variables include mileage, condition, color, options etc. It is hard to tell what the dealer actually paid for the car. I agree, do homework - find prices, but it isn't an exact science. I would have liked to pay less for the C250....but, there was only one and I really wanted it.

Fin It will, but only after it looks after itself first. The hypocritical nanny state will be hard to derail - look at Australia and the UK

I get concerned when I see a country like Venezuela doing reasonably well, price of oil drops, and people are rioting in the streets.

Explorer About an hour after talking to my neighbor, my wife got a call that she had won a charity raffle for that very game next October.

Do you think you wouldn't have won the tickets, if you hadn't reported the leaking car?

oldfarmer50 · July 2017

roadburner said:

driver100 said:
houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.
I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

As you know, research on used cars can be more difficult, particularly on older cars. I've seen 100% spreads between KBB and Edmunds.

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

dino001 · July 2017

Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

I guess we get that when everybody gets a trophy at sports and 75 percent correct answers gets you a descriptive grade saying something like "excellent effort".

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