Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

That's insane, good to see you are on the road to recovery. It may have been rough, but I suspect the quality of treatment was better here than in many parts of the country.

I bet you are right about the cost too. I had an emergency back surgery a few years ago - short procedure, in-patient, and it cost as much as a decent car. They did a good job and I had no issues, but it is still insane, and the cost of your ordeal will show how deeply the system is broken.

28firefighter said:

Thank god for family, nurses and health insurance. I can't wait to see what the hospital bills my insurance company - we've placed bets and every single bet is that it's some degree over $1mm.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

FF, Really good to hear you are good to go and back with us. Thanks for the info too, always good to be reminded you have to fight for the best medical care and do your homework too.

Mike, great reviews, makes me want to give that Sport model a try. I just couldn't do it though......I have been pleased 100% with the name brands, I don't want the no-name product until it is truly been proven. I might save myself $20000, but I don't gamble, so I don't want to throw away $60000 either.

You're starting to sound like a snob, driver.  $56,000+ for a car is not "peanuts"!  Name brands are often worth the money - but so is the Genesis G80 3.3 Sport.

Nothing to do with being a snob. I will buy No name sandwich bags....I don't notice much difference. But, I won't buy No Name tissues (can I call them Kleenex) or toilet paper. Occasionally No Name products are better than the real thing.....but it usually isn't quite as good as the real product. I haven't found a No Name Root Beer as good as A&W or even Mr Muggs! Colas.......no comparison to "The Real Thing".

I just want a track record and a few key reviews that say the knock off is as good as or better than the original. I remember the first Genesis was supposed to be as good as a BMW for a lot less......since then, I haven't found anyone who would agree.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

FF, Really good to hear you are good to go and back with us. Thanks for the info too, always good to be reminded you have to fight for the best medical care and do your homework too.

Mike, great reviews, makes me want to give that Sport model a try. I just couldn't do it though......I have been pleased 100% with the name brands, I don't want the no-name product until it is truly been proven. I might save myself $20000, but I don't gamble, so I don't want to throw away $60000 either.

You're starting to sound like a snob, driver.  $56,000+ for a car is not "peanuts"!  Name brands are often worth the money - but so is the Genesis G80 3.3 Sport.

Nothing to do with being a snob. I will buy No name sandwich bags....I don't notice much difference. But, I won't buy No Name tissues (can I call them Kleenex) or toilet paper. Occasionally No Name products are better than the real thing.....but it usually isn't quite as good as the real product. I haven't found a No Name Root Beer as good as A&W or even Mr Muggs! Colas.......no comparison to "The Real Thing".

I just want a track record and a few key reviews that say the knock off is as good as or better than the original. I remember the first Genesis was supposed to be as good as a BMW for a lot less......since then, I haven't found anyone who would agree.

Since we've established that the reviews are highly dependent on the amount of payola given the reviewer, can you really believe what you read?

ab348

Hyundai allegedly was big in the payola game a few years ago, not so sure about now as times there are tougher. But it seems most mfrs do it to varying degrees. Recently Honda not only sent auto writers to Hawaii for a week for the intro of the new Odyssey, but also paid for their families to come along. That's pretty blatant.

driver100

When I read a review I just glean usable information from it. Reviews in the daily paper are usually favorable, because papers need the advertising bucks. If there is a real negative - seats are short, lack of power, clunky transmission, poor vision through rear window, etc then that is factual and I use that information.

I also find if I read 3 or 4 reviews then I look for common good and bad things mentioned. If they all say this car is the most comfortable I have driven in this class then that is usable information. If they all say the infotainment system is hard to use....then it probably is.

This started with me saying the G80 doesn't have a track record yet. I am a pretty loyal customer....for most things, I don't change products unless there is a very good reason. Once I have trust and I really like something, I find it hard to switch to a real unknown. Like I say, the first Genesis got rave reviews, then people realized it wasn't at the same level as the real thing. One day it will be, a Sonata is probably as good as an Accord these days, just not sure about the G80.

oldfarmer50

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy?

Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional $1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150.

Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?"

I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that.

So is this offer potentially dishonest?

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy? Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional $1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150. Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?" I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that. So is this offer potentially dishonest?

The $1k trade assist is from the manufacturer.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy?

Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional $1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150.

Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?"

I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that.

So is this offer potentially dishonest?

The $1k trade assist is from the manufacturer.

So they're advertizing trunk money? That's unusual isn't it?

Or is it just another name for a rebate?

I still see potential for monkey business on trade valuation.

dino001

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy?

Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional $1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150.

Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?"

I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that.

So is this offer potentially dishonest?

The $1k trade assist is from the manufacturer.

Used vehicle value is always in eye of beholder. The buyer will always try to pay less and the seller will always try to get more. $1000 "assist", wherever it comes from, doesn't change this dynamic. However, since it's coming from the manufacturer, one has to look at dealer's proposed pricing and figure out whether it reflects the value.

Many dealers will undervalue the trade at the first pencil no matter what kind of money is involved. It's just their normal practice. Others will try to extend an honest offer, again because it's their practice. And "undervaluing", "overvaluing", or "fair valuing" is also very subjective. Same car may honestly be worth more to one dealer and less to another. You put a mint condition Benz in front of a Kia dealer (or worse - the opposite) and they will be very cautious in valuing it. You put the same vehicle in front of the dealer of its own brand, or close competitor and they may have much more confidence in the pricing, resulting in a better offer. No shenanigans necessary, just business. Of course, there will always be some guys who would deliberately undervalue the trade just to see if you take it.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

So they're advertizing trunk money? That's unusual isn't it?

Or is it just another name for a rebate?

I still see potential for monkey business on trade valuation.

It is just another rebate. Obviously requiring a trade-in, though. There is always potential for monkey business with any rebate, regardless of what it is called.

ab348

Extra value on a trade is good because generally you are paying sales tax on the net amount of your purchase after deducting the value of the trade. Up here where the sales tax is 15% that extra thou would actually be worth $1150.

In 2009 when I was looking to trade in my '02 Intrigue most places I went to offered me $3K for it. The place I ended up going with offered me $4K without any cajoling. It made me feel like I was getting a better deal (their price offer on the new car was very good also).

tjc78

driver100 said:

When I read a review I just glean usable information from it. Reviews in the daily paper are usually favorable, because papers need the advertising bucks. If there is a real negative - seats are short, lack of power, clunky transmission, poor vision through rear window, etc then that is factual and I use that information. I also find if I read 3 or 4 reviews then I look for common good and bad things mentioned. If they all say this car is the most comfortable I have driven in this class then that is usable information. If they all say the infotainment system is hard to use....then it probably is. This started with me saying the G80 doesn't have a track record yet. I am a pretty loyal customer....for most things, I don't change products unless there is a very good reason. Once I have trust and I really like something, I find it hard to switch to a real unknown. Like I say, the first Genesis got rave reviews, then people realized it wasn't at the same level as the real thing. One day it will be, a Sonata is probably as good as an Accord these days, just not sure about the G80.

How doesn't the G80 have a track record yet?  The Hyundai Genesis (which is what the G80 is) has been around since 2009.  That is 8 model years.  Hyundai in general is now known as a reputable brand and really the only issue with them is resale value.  

pensfan83

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy?

Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional $1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150.

Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?"

I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that.

So is this offer potentially dishonest?

That was the same offer when I traded my Fusion in for the A4...never thought the $$$ came from from trunk money or any rebate, I was far less informed then than I am now. It helped they pulled in the used car manager of the nearby Ford dealer to appraise the car because he immediately wanted it for his used lot. As dino001 noted it definitely helped to get someone familiar with the product involved. I lucked out because the dealer group I was buying from owns that Ford dealer and other brands besides Audi.

oldfarmer50

B

tjc78 said:

driver100 said:

When I read a review I just glean usable information from it. Reviews in the daily paper are usually favorable, because papers need the advertising bucks. If there is a real negative - seats are short, lack of power, clunky transmission, poor vision through rear window, etc then that is factual and I use that information.

I also find if I read 3 or 4 reviews then I look for common good and bad things mentioned. If they all say this car is the most comfortable I have driven in this class then that is usable information. If they all say the infotainment system is hard to use....then it probably is.

This started with me saying the G80 doesn't have a track record yet. I am a pretty loyal customer....for most things, I don't change products unless there is a very good reason. Once I have trust and I really like something, I find it hard to switch to a real unknown. Like I say, the first Genesis got rave reviews, then people realized it wasn't at the same level as the real thing. One day it will be, a Sonata is probably as good as an Accord these days, just not sure about the G80.

How doesn't the G80 have a track record yet?  The Hyundai Genesis (which is what the G80 is) has been around since 2009.  That is 8 model years.  Hyundai in general is now known as a reputable brand and really the only issue with them is resale value.  


You'd never know Hyundai had poor resale value from the asking prices I see. There have been base model 10 year old Accents asking high $5k with 50k miles that I know MSRPed at $9999 when new. Only a Miata or Vette retains that kind of value.

Of course the owner could be delusional.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/cto/d/hyundai-accent-miles-in/6236111019.html

Mr_Shiftright

KBB thinks it's worth $4000 full retail. Very low mileage cars are always hard to price because there are so few comparables.

You reach a point in used cars where ANYTHING clean and decent reaches a basement price that will never go lower. Right now, I estimate that's about $2500 to $3000 for anything that's shiny and runs well regardless of make or mileage. So if you add extra low mileage into the equation, which many buyers perceive as a value-added item, then a $4000 price for this car does make sense. At $5800, it would have to be sold by a "buy here pay here" type of dealer on the wrong side of the tracks.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy?

Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional $1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150.

Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?"

I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that.

So is this offer potentially dishonest?

The $1k trade assist is from the manufacturer.

So they're advertizing trunk money? That's unusual isn't it?

Or is it just another name for a rebate?

I still see potential for monkey business on trade valuation.

There will always be "monkey business on trade valuation" because it is still the car biz we are talking about. Couple that with the info that the buyer has today about the price of new cars, thereby helping them on that side of the deal, I can't see the trade game changing any time soon.

Go back and look at the tale I told a few days ago about Mrs. j's '06 Sonata that was traded for my '09 Genny. If you think your trade is worth more than the dealer does, hold to your price. If you are thrown out of a few showrooms with that price you'll have to reevaluate your sources.

And yes, you will probably always leave some money on the table.

jmonroe

andres3

28firefighter said:

pensfan83 said:

@28firefighter - very glad to hear you pulled through what sounds like one of the most awful experiences and it's great to hear you are improving everyday and getting back to being able to spend time with your family. Best of luck on your path to full recovery.

Thanks, @pensfan83. Very happy and grateful to be home.

So have you asked the wife yet if she was serious about the "Porsche" comment when you were seriously ill?

andres3

driver100 said:

FF, Really good to hear you are good to go and back with us. Thanks for the info too, always good to be reminded you have to fight for the best medical care and do your homework too.

Mike, great reviews, makes me want to give that Sport model a try. I just couldn't do it though......I have been pleased 100% with the name brands, I don't want the no-name product until it is truly been proven. I might save myself $20000, but I don't gamble, so I don't want to throw away $60000 either.

Agreed, I mean, do you really want to have to pull out your spreadsheets and argue them in front of a Warranty Claim Administrator hell-bent on denying your engine repair claim?

driver100

tjc78 said:

driver100 said:

When I read a review I just glean usable information from it. Reviews in the daily paper are usually favorable, because papers need the advertising bucks. If there is a real negative - seats are short, lack of power, clunky transmission, poor vision through rear window, etc then that is factual and I use that information.

I also find if I read 3 or 4 reviews then I look for common good and bad things mentioned. If they all say this car is the most comfortable I have driven in this class then that is usable information. If they all say the infotainment system is hard to use....then it probably is.

This started with me saying the G80 doesn't have a track record yet. I am a pretty loyal customer....for most things, I don't change products unless there is a very good reason. Once I have trust and I really like something, I find it hard to switch to a real unknown. Like I say, the first Genesis got rave reviews, then people realized it wasn't at the same level as the real thing. One day it will be, a Sonata is probably as good as an Accord these days, just not sure about the G80.

How doesn't the G80 have a track record yet?  The Hyundai Genesis (which is what the G80 is) has been around since 2009.  That is 8 model years.  Hyundai in general is now known as a reputable brand and really the only issue with them is resale value.  


That is the big problem....resale value. So it costs $20000 less to buy, but it will probably be worth $25000 less than a BMW/Audi/MBwhen you go to trade it in. That is part of the track record....and is an unknown. I think used Sonatas hold their value pretty well these days...because they have proven themselves to be on a par with Honda and Toyota....Genesis is not there yet.

andres3

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

The only negative I could come up with for the G80 3.3 Turbo Sport was that it was too harsh a ride for an old fogy like me. I know I would be in pain after about 2 hours of driving up to see my brother in Ponte Vedra.

Didn't this Hyundai have adjustable suspension settings? It's supposed to be a premium Hyundai model.

Yes, imid, both did.  Sport, normal and economy settings.  I had the G80 3.3 Sport setting on "normal".  Can you imagine what my derrière would feel like if I had the car in sport mode?  Wait, don't answer that! 

Take another test-drive in Economy mode. Seems if they are doing it right, it'll soften the suspension a little. If they are really doing it right, they would have copied Audi and allow a "individual" custom mode where you can select sport settings for things such as steering, transmission, engine, exhaust, but comfort for suspension settings.

Even in the VW I can select sport steering (heavier feel) with everything else in normal mode.

driver100

About this $1000 more for your trade in on a Ford F-150......not good if you are trading in a 1 or 2 year old vehicle, but great if you are trading in a 15 year old vehicle. I don't like those kind of programs...it is one I will never win at. Then the guy with the $300 rusted out truck will tow his truck in and get $1300 for it.

I'd say it isn't a bargain. They are starting to reduce prices because the 2018s will be out soon. $1000 can be padded anywhere...........it wouldn't make me rush out to buy. If I was buying I would go in heavily armed with a print out of what my trade in is worth.

andres3

ab348 said:

Hyundai allegedly was big in the payola game a few years ago, not so sure about now as times there are tougher. But it seems most mfrs do it to varying degrees. Recently Honda not only sent auto writers to Hawaii for a week for the intro of the new Odyssey, but also paid for their families to come along. That's pretty blatant.

That would probably make me write about how Honda profit margins are way too high, and they can afford to lower the price of their cars 5% if they can afford lavish family getaways to Hawaii.

andres3

ab348 said:

Extra value on a trade is good because generally you are paying sales tax on the net amount of your purchase after deducting the value of the trade. Up here where the sales tax is 15% that extra thou would actually be worth $1150.

In 2009 when I was looking to trade in my '02 Intrigue most places I went to offered me $3K for it. The place I ended up going with offered me $4K without any cajoling. It made me feel like I was getting a better deal (their price offer on the new car was very good also).

On the other end of the spectrum you have California where the trade-in doesn't change your sales tax amount on the new car. Therefore, it would be better if they sold you the $60K car for $30K and paid you a penny for the 30K value trade-in. I never asked them to go that far, maybe I should have.

28firefighter

Ah yes - the Porsche comment. She was serious. After all of the hospital bills are paid and things quiet back down, I am allowed to buy a Porsche. We have not discussed parameters, but I imagine it will be an older used variety. I also expect it will require me to flip the GTI into a 4-door practical something or other.

@tifighter has me thinking heavily about a Porsche 996...

ab348

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum.

They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need.

The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

isellhondas

Slot machines as I understand it have to pay back 90% at least in Nevada. Doesn't sound too bad but those are really lousy odds compared to Blackjack where the casino has around a 1% edge IF and it's a big IF the player is doing everything perfectly. I think I'm a pretty good Blackjack player but they are usually better. Craps is a sucker game when people bet the field or on numbers. The dealers are quick to tell you "Bet the Horn" yeah, right. I think slots on Tribal Casinos and Cruise Ships don't have to play by the same rules.

The last time I was in Las Vegas it was impossible to find less then a 10.00 minimum bet Blackjack table with many on the strip starting at 20.00! To me, that takes the fun out of it. I remember when they had 2.00 tables complete with free drinks! Not anymore! Vegas has learned how to CHARGE! The inexpensive and excellent buffets are no more either!

abacomike

driver100 said:

driver100 said:

When I read a review I just glean usable information from it. Reviews in the daily paper are usually favorable, because papers need the advertising bucks. If there is a real negative - seats are short, lack of power, clunky transmission, poor vision through rear window, etc then that is factual and I use that information. I also find if I read 3 or 4 reviews then I look for common good and bad things mentioned. If they all say this car is the most comfortable I have driven in this class then that is usable information. If they all say the infotainment system is hard to use....then it probably is. This started with me saying the G80 doesn't have a track record yet. I am a pretty loyal customer....for most things, I don't change products unless there is a very good reason. Once I have trust and I really like something, I find it hard to switch to a real unknown. Like I say, the first Genesis got rave reviews, then people realized it wasn't at the same level as the real thing. One day it will be, a Sonata is probably as good as an Accord these days, just not sure about the G80.

How doesn't the G80 have a track record yet?  The Hyundai Genesis (which is what the G80 is) has been around since 2009.  That is 8 model years.  Hyundai in general is now known as a reputable brand and really the only issue with them is resale value.  

That is the big problem....resale value. So it costs $20000 less to buy, but it will probably be worth $25000 less than a BMW/Audi/MBwhen you go to trade it in. That is part of the track record....and is an unknown. I think used Sonatas hold their value pretty well these days...because they have proven themselves to be on a par with Honda and Toyota....Genesis is not there yet.

That's why you lease cars like that.  With good MF's and manufacturer support for residuals, they can be a steal, but I'd refrain from purchasing because of the lower trade value.

ab348

The depreciation on most luxury cars is breathtaking of course. I looked up 2016 Hyundai Equus numbers today. There are still some new ones on dealer lots with MSRPs of $62K-$69K, no idea what they might actually be asking. You can find used ones with 40K-some miles for low $30K prices, even ones without that many miles are mostly mid-$30s.

andres3

ab348 said:

The depreciation on most luxury cars is breathtaking of course. I looked up 2016 Hyundai Equus numbers today. There are still some new ones on dealer lots with MSRPs of $62K-$69K, no idea what they might actually be asking. You can find used ones with 40K-some miles for low $30K prices, even ones without that many miles are mostly mid-$30s.

New car prices are mostly for the brand loyal fan-boys of that brand.

The used car market corrects for the fan boy markup on all cars.

abacomike

abacomike

They had the above Bentley displayed at the main mall entrance at Saks Fifth Avenue.  They have magic markers to patrons to place signatures and well-wishes to an ad campaign.  I don't think I'd want my car treated like that. 

explorerx4

I'm assuming there is a wrap on the car which is why they don't want anyone to sign the mirror.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l0HWyLl67c8

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

I'm assuming there is a wrap on the car which is why they don't want anyone to sign the mirror.

Let's hope - but I did not see a wrap.  

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum.

They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need.

The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires.

Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles?

I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

tbirdmarco

https://www.cars.com/articles/these-are-the-11-best-used-car-bargains-study-1420696109119/?aff=marketaw&emc=marketaw

explorerx4

@marcothecarguy1986,
Interesting list. I'm assuming the depreciation is from MSRP.

oldfarmer50

Marcothecarguy1986 said:

https://www.cars.com/articles/these-are-the-11-best-used-car-bargains-study-1420696109119/?aff=marketaw&emc=marketaw

So assuming you don't get stuck with GG's lemon an off lease CTS might be a bargain.

driver100

abacomike said:

explorerx4 said:

I'm assuming there is a wrap on the car which is why they don't want anyone to sign the mirror.

Let's hope - but I did not see a wrap.  

Our tour guide in Germany said the taxis there, which are always pale yellow, have wrap on them. If it is true, you can't tell it from paint.

maybe it is a washable marker though! Probably comes off easily if it is on the paint. Nice looking car though....so simple yet so elegant.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum.

They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need.

The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires.

Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles?

I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

Same reason the suspension mounts on the Dodge Caravan at my previous employer were super shot and super clunky at 85,000 miles. 99 cent parts sold for thousands of dollars (well, OK, talking about the vehicles sale price including all parts, not just the suspension mounts).

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum. They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need. The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires. Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles? I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

Remind me the year of the Sable?

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum.

They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need.

The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires.

Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles?

I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

Remind me the year of the Sable?

2005. Parts are cheap. 25 bucks each online but I'm told the book says it's a 3 hour job.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum.

They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need.

The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires.

Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles?

I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

Same reason the suspension mounts on the Dodge Caravan at my previous employer were super shot and super clunky at 85,000 miles. 99 cent parts sold for thousands of dollars (well, OK, talking about the vehicles sale price including all parts, not just the suspension mounts).

The control arm bushings on my wife's Chrysler were shot at 35k (very disappointing)

The 2008 Chrysler vans at school were still going strong at 150k miles but they had a fleet of mechanics working on them.

fordfool

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Am I being too cynical or is this fishy?

Just saw a commercial for local Ford dealers where they are offering " an additional
$1000 on top of your trade" for the purchase of a F-150.

Now to me it seems it would be near irresistible for the dealer to not try to undervalue
your trade in such a transaction using the excuse "well, we're giving you an extra
thousand out of the goodness of out hearts. Why are you being difficult?"

I can't imagine the average buyer being able to counter that.

So is this offer potentially dishonest?

The $1k trade assist is from the manufacturer.

So they're advertizing trunk money? That's unusual isn't it?

Or is it just another name for a rebate?

I still see potential for monkey business on trade valuation.



I suspect that regardless of the type of help that the dealer receives from the manufacturer,
either "trunk money" (unknown to the buyer) or a rebate (known to the buyer), that the
dealer tries to keep as much as possible for himself.

If a dealer is over-offering for your trade, he's almost certainly over-asking for his car.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum.

They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need.

The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires.

Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles?

I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

How old is the Sable? Over time, the grease in the ball joints can dry up, so mileage isn't the only determinant.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Had the ATS in for its regular service today, no issues but one niggle. The Cadillac service plan is a good one, you don't pay for most things for the first 4 years and you get loaner/rental car transportation if you want. I always go for that just for the experience of driving different vehicles for a day in return for a few bucks worth of gas. Today I got a new GMC Acadia, which I ended up liking except for the size and posted about in the Rental Car Experience forum. They called this afternoon to say it was ready and when I picked it up the service writer said that even though my OE wiper blades were good, they replaced them with new blades. When the nicely detailed ATS was brought around, I saw it had those clunky universal-fit AC-Delco blades mounted, which I hate compared to the nicely integrated OE blades made by Denso that came on it. Fortunately they put those in the trunk so I can swap them back on. I think this is a case of them knowing Cadillac would pay for replacement blades so they did it without any real need. The only other bad thing was that when I was leaving, the sales guy who tried to pull the fast one with recording a sale to me of a new ATS saw my driving away, which probably means another annoying call tomorrow.

Don't feel bad. I just picked up my son's Sable at my trusted indie shop after an oil change and found out it needed ball joints. Luckily on that car it's under $400. Bad news the alignment was so screwed that he needs new tires. Any idea how ball joints go bad in 57k miles? I now have visions of the 91 yo lady previous owner driving to church on the rail road tracks.

Remind me the year of the Sable?

2005. Parts are cheap. 25 bucks each online but I'm told the book says it's a 3 hour job.

Shifty beat me to it. 12 yrs, while not terribly old, is enough.

Mr_Shiftright

Ball joints are kind of a pain in the neck as a DIY. The job is very simple in terms of skill level but the execution can be very annoying. Next time I do them, (if I do), it'll be only with air tools. Some ball joints are riveted and need to be chiseled out. And some axle shafts can freeze in the hubs. And you'll still need to have the car aligned afterwards. Then there's the "while I'm in there" question. You have the brake caliper off, you have the axle out (most likely), or exposed, so you're thinkin' brake pads and axle boots and maybe rotors and........

tifighter

28firefighter said:

Ah yes - the Porsche comment. She was serious. After all of the hospital bills are paid and things quiet back down, I am allowed to buy a Porsche. We have not discussed parameters, but I imagine it will be an older used variety. I also expect it will require me to flip the GTI into a 4-door practical something or other.

@tifighter has me thinking heavily about a Porsche 996...

Uh oh. I don't know if I can take the pressure of introducing someone to 996 roulette. Besides myself, of course.

Looks like the one I was considering sold. I'm disappointed and relieved at the same time.

venture

Finally caught up. Baseball field grounds keeping keeps me busy during the summer...

Stopped at my local Honda dealer to look at the Civic Hatchback Sport Touring. I commented to the greenpea that my wife will have to look at it since it is smaller than my Fusion. He said, "It isn't much smaller."

We got around to engine power and I commented that I wasn't extremely happy that it only has 180 HP. He said, "That's enough. It's a small car."

That made my brain hurt a little so I left.

Where's snakeweasel?

iluvmysephia1

Wow, venture. All of us Edmunds regulars will spend hours of our time catching up on posts after life happens to us. Interesting thing about how we think - we must think we're gonna miss something. Or something.

Right now, at 3:55AM, it is thunder and lightening and raining several species of cats and dogs. There is is a flash flood warning until 8:30AM in Jackson County. When we look out our living room windows at the street we live on the water is rushing down the street hard. 

A large local hospital had me in for a job interview yesterday in a KC burb on the Kansas side of KC. I would love to work in this hospital's Sleep Lab. Boss is nice and needs PRN help now, but it could turn into a full time opportunity. She's planning for growth in the department.