Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

As you know, research on used cars can be more difficult, particularly on older cars. I've seen 100% spreads between KBB and Edmunds.

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

In the case of my 2 Series, at the time I bought it there were only 26 2014 and 2015 CPO M235is in the entire US. It's pretty easy to determine a decent price from that number of comps.
As for used cars in general, yes, more research is involved as opposed to new, but I've never considered it to be a major problem.

bwia

abacomike said:

If I could play golf as well as Jordan Spieth, I could die with a magnificent smile on my face.  What a phenom!  

Stick with a "sport" you can play well, like poker. Yesterday, in Las Vegas, a New Jersey man , Scott Blumstein, won this year's World Series of Poker Championship (no-limit Texas Hold 'em) taking home a cool $8.1 million.

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

pensfan83

Speaking of poker I just booked my reservation for my annual work related conference in Las Vegas at the end of September. My wife is accomonaying me as well and while the conference runs Sunday evening-Wednesday afternoon we're staying until Saturday. We're going to try to branch out from the strip and Fremont St this year.

ab348

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

graphicguy

pensfan83 said:

Speaking of poker I just booked my reservation for my annual work related conference in Las Vegas at the end of September. My wife is accomonaying me as well and while the conference runs Sunday evening-Wednesday afternoon we're staying until Saturday. We're going to try to branch out from the strip and Fremont St this year.

Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon, Grand Canyon.......

fintail

There's also "loaded" perceptions. I'll see an ad for a 3-5 year old MB, "loaded" or "all options". Yet in the pics I can see no distronic/driver's assist, no pano, no parktronic, no lighting package, basic interior and/or steering wheel etc. But it has power windows and locks, so it must be loaded!

oldfarmer50 said:

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

pensfan83

graphicguy said:

Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon, Grand Canyon......

All three sound like a plan to me and I have been wanting to do the Hoover Dam since my first trip here 6 years ago.

andres3

Re-posting from another Thread because I'm very happy to report a favorable review:

the VW Alltrack 1.8T performed admirably in a trip up and through the Big Bear Mountains in Southern CA. The car handles great, on both smooth pavement (rare for Caltrans), and on some minor off-roading excursions where we tested the Alltracks ruggedness a bit.

Heck, even a guy in a Jeep going the other direction waved at me in approval for taking the Alltrack where it belongs This was a road even regular 2WD compact cars could go, but highly unrecommended. There was a section where the road narrows into a one way section where you can see from above, and wait your turn. Well, two slow moving compact 2WD vehicles crawled their way through, while a Subaru and I waited and then finally proceeded about 4X faster though the same section of unpaved road.

I used the "off road" drive mode. Seemed to keep the brakes on more than anything when going from a standing start (hill assist-like),,but perhaps it makes it less FWD biased and more RWD engaged. Need further testing.

It was certainly far more comfortable on off-road undulations than my S4 was during my AZ off-road adventure. That one knocked some tooth fillings out.

On the way home, I took the curvy scenic route that goes up and down several times (Hwy 38), including a 8,443 summit climb (Onyx Pass), Averaged 32 MPG in an AWD vehicle with 3 people and lots of luggage inside it. That's 32 MPG with regular 87 Octane Costco CA unleaded gas. AC was on all the time too; I'm happy with that.

isellhondas

bwia said:

abacomike said:

If I could play golf as well as Jordan Spieth, I could die with a magnificent smile on my face.  What a phenom!  

Stick with a "sport" you can play well, like poker. Yesterday, in Las Vegas, a New Jersey man , Scott Blumstein, won this year's World Series of Poker Championship (no-limit Texas Hold 'em) taking home a cool $8.1 million.

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I have a theory about gambling. People shouldn't gamble if they are going to feel angry or unhappy if they lose and people shouldn't gamble money they can't afford to lose. We usually go on a cruise once a year and I'll visit the casino a couple of nights for an hour or so. If I lose 50.00 I'm fine with that. I once got into a "fight" with a slot machine, got stubborn and lost 100.00! That is a fight I didn't win!

driver100

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

We have been to a few casinos....I think mostly to remind ourselves of why we don't like casinos. It is depressing because you see some of the most pathetic people around....what kind of empty life do you have that you want to spend hours throwing coins into a slot (oh yeh, last time I went I bought a card and inserted that). I usually go, get a roll of quarters, try to get rid of them as fast as I can so I can get out into the fresh air.

We usually win because if I am up, usually about $10 or so, I will only bet half of my winnings, and I can tell everyone I won. The tendency is to win, get that euphoric feeling, and then throw your money back in until you lose it all....trying to get the feeling again.

Houdini, on a cruise ship, days at sea are so boring you may have to find something to do, like visit the casino. I agree, take an amount and consider it the price for a bit of entertainment..

One thing I love about Las Vegas is seeing the buildings (casinos). It is amazing what man can build and create (especially if there is a buck to be made). But, those buildings are spectacular......and I even like looking at the lobbies and all that, though in the old days you could see more free stuff, like lions etc.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

As you know, research on used cars can be more difficult, particularly on older cars. I've seen 100% spreads between KBB and Edmunds.

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

In the case of my 2 Series, at the time I bought it there were only 26 2014 and 2015 CPO M235is in the entire US. It's pretty easy to determine a decent price from that number of comps.
As for used cars in general, yes, more research is involved as opposed to new, but I've never considered it to be a major problem.

Boy, that's pretty precise data. Nationwide too. How did you find that out? I remember when I was considering buying the Eclipse it took a kind hearted Edmunds poster who gave me a link to trade sales data which showed a lot of surplus inventory and made my offer more confident.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said.

Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime.

I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel.

I'll never understand it.

Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data.

jmonroe

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

As you know, research on used cars can be more difficult, particularly on older cars. I've seen 100% spreads between KBB and Edmunds.

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

In the case of my 2 Series, at the time I bought it there were only 26 2014 and 2015 CPO M235is in the entire US. It's pretty easy to determine a decent price from that number of comps.
As for used cars in general, yes, more research is involved as opposed to new, but I've never considered it to be a major problem.

Boy, that's pretty precise data. Nationwide too. How did you find that out? I remember when I was considering buying the Eclipse it took a kind hearted Edmunds poster who gave me a link to trade sales data which showed a lot of surplus inventory and made my offer more confident.

While raising a family I bought my share of used cars and I didn't even have access to the info that we have today. Just looked at what the dealers had and what the private sellers wanted. Decided that all of the advertised prices were starting points so I threw a dart and got my number.

I remember a salesman, almost in a crying voice saying to me back in the '80's, "Mr. jmonroe, I have lowered my price 3 times already but you haven't upped your price even once". All I could say was, "and I'm not going to either". Long story short the SM comes in and uses the classic car sales line, "is this the guy that's trying to steal our car"? We had a little discussion, I didn't budge so he told his order taker to write up the sale. If my offer wasn't good enough he would have left me walk.

This was back in the day when I didn't know any better so I spent too much time buying that car. Although I haven't bought a used car for a while, I wouldn't spend more than 30 minutes today trying to convince a salesman I'm a serious buyer and if I didn't like his attitude I'd be gone before that.

jmonroe

laurasdada

I'm no expert, but I enjoy playing blackjack. It's a good game if you play the math/basic strategy and mange your money well. Doesn't put the odds in your favor, just a bit less than in the house's. I'm also a nickel and dime player, but I like to joke at the table that I'm playing with mortgage and tuition money. I'm 2-0 this year at Mohegan Sun, doubled and tripled my $ in my two trips playing blackjack. But, that will change...

The only true odds that I know of in a casino are the behind the line bets at craps. Craps, while it looks complex, is fairly simple, just be aware of the odds of all the bets; e.g. the "Field" looks good on the table, but it ain't. Slots and roulette are bad... Unless you are AbacoMike, he seems to always win!

Michaell

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

andres3

driver100 said:

How about a new Dodge Demon? 840 horsepower, 0 to 60 in 2.4 seconds.
https://youtu.be/lc40DTp_eJc

You have to go through a lot of steps to get it to take off that fast!

No stoplight antics for this car then; would take too long and you might be caught with your pants down.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MhbLqnruGao

jmonroe

Michaell said:

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

I've heard of people that play their "lucky number". I can't help myself so I ask is it really lucky? I've gotten a few responses like, "what do you mean"? I didn't think that was a hard question so I say, "have you won more than you have lost"? The honest ones say, "no, not really". Then I have others that have said, "I don't keep track". Based on that response I'd have to say some people can't even be honest about their "luck number".

So, Mr. Host, how has your "luck number" been treating you?

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

I've heard of people that play their "lucky number". I can't help myself so I ask is it really lucky? I've gotten a few responses like, "what do you mean"? I didn't think that was a hard question so I say, "have you won more than you have lost"? The honest ones say, "no, not really". Then I have others that have said, "I don't keep track". Based on that response I'd have to say some people can't even be honest about their "luck number".

So, Mr. Host, how has your "luck number" been treating you?

jmonroe

Pretty good.

I can think of a couple times where it's hit - once in Iowa, as previously mentioned, and once in Vegas.

Have I won more than I lost playing it? I dunno - I think it's pretty close to break even.

ab348

andres3 said:

No stoplight antics for this car then; would take too long and you might be caught with your pants down.

Supposedly the 2018 Mustang GT will have a "drag strip mode" that will get it 0-60 in under 4 seconds.

pensfan83

I'm not a big gambler either rather I've always looked at it as something to pass the time while waiting for something else, especially in LV while waiting for a table.

explorerx4

Speaking of those stop light grand prix's, this morning a Chevy Z71, counterpart to my FX4 wanted to put me to the test.
I'm kind of reluctant, due to just wanting get to work and the place this usually happens is only a mile from my house(nothing warmed up) and after 100 yards goes uphill.
Didn't do anything crazy, just went from brake to gas when the light turned green.
Got a little jump and when I heard his engine wind up I gave it some gas, just enough to stay ahead and then gave it some more and just walked away.
N/A 5.3 is no competition for the 3.5 ecoboost. The Chevy 6.2 would have been a big challenge.
There is a tendency to see the same vehicles most mornings, so I'm not sure if I want to leave for work earlier or later tomorrow.

qbrozen

jmonroe said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said. Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime. I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel. I'll never understand it. Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data. jmonroe

You have to look at it from an entertainment perspective. I don't understand the interest in playing golf, but I get that some people enjoy doing it. Playing cards is fun for lots of people, including me. Most of the time, I break even or get enough to pay for the buffet. So I had a good time for 4-6 hrs and it cost next to nothing. That is a far better deal for entertainment than a lot of other choices.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

No stoplight antics for this car then; would take too long and you might be caught with your pants down.

Supposedly the 2018 Mustang GT will have a "drag strip mode" that will get it 0-60 in under 4 seconds.

That sounds like "line lock" which the GT had since 2015. 4 seconds sounds a bit faster though. The 18 is suppose to have more hp to match the Camaro SS which might make it quicker. Ford is keeping the exact figures a secret last I heard.

Oh never mind, Ford just announced 460hp. That's getting seriously powerful.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a10351073/2018-ford-mustang-gt-horsepower-acceleration-specs/

fintail

Something to think about in Vegas - the "resort fees" have gone through the roof in the past couple years, and now often hit my daily gambling budget.

fordfool

jmonroe said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said.

Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime.

I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel.

I'll never understand it.

Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data.

jmonroe

I'd no sooner walk into a casino than sit down to a game I knew was fixed. To my mind,
they amount to the same thing.

The odds on craps are about 1.5% against assuming proper play; the odds on roulette are
5.26% against; the odds on blackjack are about 1% against (depending upon the house rules),
again assuming proper play. Blackjack takes some talent to learn. There are 200 possible
hands on which you can stand, hit, double-down, surrender, or split. So while perfect play
gives the house a 1% advantage, the house actually rakes in about 20% due to imperfect play.

Typically, slots are set for a "take" of about 10%, but rumor has it that end of the aisle
slots are "looser" so as to create more excitement to attract more players.

driver100

FF, Those odds seem OK, depending on the articles you read...if not right on, they could be right on or at least close.

Also keep this in mind: The more you gamble, the likelier you are to lose. An analysis of online gamblers found that those who bet the least also had the highest winning percentage. But even then, the numbers weren’t great. Seventeen percent of the lightest gamblers ended up in the black over a two-year period. Only 5.4% of the heaviest gamblers came out ahead.

“[T]he average person doesn’t understand the math” of the multiplier effect, Jim Kilby, who has written books on casino management, told the Wall Street Journal. “Casino games are nibbling machines, and the more nibbles you have, the bigger your losses.”

Since your odds of winning are less than the casinos, I think if you start off by winning, keep half, then leave, you will be one of the few who actually come out ahead.

sda

fintail said:

Bureaucracy is not really different in the US, positions where one is effectively untouchable in many roles after a certain time, and departments just do what they can to keep budgets intact, with insane pension systems that give a ROI unattainable for any normal investor, where you can retire at 55-60 with 80% of your highest income and COLAs guaranteed for life. It can't last forever.

Taxes aren't the evil, it's all about what you receive for taxes. My counterpart in developed Europe may pay a bit more in taxes, but receives more benefit for each unit of tax paid. A couple of ER visits in the past few years brought that home for me.

I think the scope and size of the praetorian sector is the key difference between Canada and the US, along with healthcare (the funds from fund the other depending on where one lives). It's a significant economic impact in the US, and many base their identity around it. Otherwise, for example,Vancouver is awfully like Seattle in demographics and attitudes (at least Vancouver had the stones to enact a pittance tax on black money real estate speculators, Seattle needs one too), and some Canadian areas away from urban cores (at least in my experience in BC) aren't that much different from their American counterparts - the "redneck" identity is alive and well. I think the same might be true say for ON vs NY.

It doesn't matter where you live (any country) has 'rednecks'.

fintail

Indeed, and some are a lot less willing to admit it than others.

sda said:

It doesn't matter where you live (any country) has 'rednecks'.

jmonroe

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

I've heard of people that play their "lucky number". I can't help myself so I ask is it really lucky? I've gotten a few responses like, "what do you mean"? I didn't think that was a hard question so I say, "have you won more than you have lost"? The honest ones say, "no, not really". Then I have others that have said, "I don't keep track". Based on that response I'd have to say some people can't even be honest about their "luck number".

So, Mr. Host, how has your "luck number" been treating you?

jmonroe

Pretty good.

I can think of a couple times where it's hit - once in Iowa, as previously mentioned, and once in Vegas.

Have I won more than I lost playing it? I dunno - I think it's pretty close to break even.

Some thing tells me that if you played your "lucky number" backwards you'd have the same success.

jmonroe

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

As you know, research on used cars can be more difficult, particularly on older cars. I've seen 100% spreads between KBB and Edmunds.

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

In the case of my 2 Series, at the time I bought it there were only 26 2014 and 2015 CPO M235is in the entire US. It's pretty easy to determine a decent price from that number of comps.
As for used cars in general, yes, more research is involved as opposed to new, but I've never considered it to be a major problem.

Boy, that's pretty precise data. Nationwide too. How did you find that out? I remember when I was considering buying the Eclipse it took a kind hearted Edmunds poster who gave me a link to trade sales data which showed a lot of surplus inventory and made my offer more confident.

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

houdini1
We have talked a lot about the strategy for buying a new car, but I can't recall a strategy for buying a used car.

That alone is a good question. A little different than a new car because we don't know what the dealer paid for the used car. So guys, how do you handle one shot pricing on a used car?

I think a one or two year old CPO used car is kind of the honey spot of buying a car. Big chunk of depreciation gone, but still lots of good miles left.

As you know, I love our 2014 CPO 2014 C250 with about 16000 miles on it. It would be a shame to pay $36k instead of $25k for a car that will probably go about 5000 miles a year.

I handle used cars the same way as new. I research values and determine the maximum I'm willing to pay.

As you know, research on used cars can be more difficult, particularly on older cars. I've seen 100% spreads between KBB and Edmunds.

Then there's condition perceptions. Frequently I see cars listed as excellent condition that have multiple problems. Yesterday I was looking at a private party ad for a 2002 Nissan Maxima with low miles. Seller said excellent except for needing an exhaust (potential cost $1000+), AC "charge" (another potential $1000) and having the air bag light on (just a modual costs $500).

Oh yeah, there was rust too.

In the case of my 2 Series, at the time I bought it there were only 26 2014 and 2015 CPO M235is in the entire US. It's pretty easy to determine a decent price from that number of comps.
As for used cars in general, yes, more research is involved as opposed to new, but I've never considered it to be a major problem.

Boy, that's pretty precise data. Nationwide too. How did you find that out? I remember when I was considering buying the Eclipse it took a kind hearted Edmunds poster who gave me a link to trade sales data which showed a lot of surplus inventory and made my offer more confident.

I checked Autotrader, Cars.com, and BMW NA's CPO search. Pretty easy to do if you search specific years and confine the search to CPO cars.

jmonroe

qbrozen said:

jmonroe said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said.

Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime.

I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel.

I'll never understand it.

Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data.

jmonroe

You have to look at it from an entertainment perspective. I don't understand the interest in playing golf, but I get that some people enjoy doing it. Playing cards is fun for lots of people, including me. Most of the time, I break even or get enough to pay for the buffet. So I had a good time for 4-6 hrs and it cost next to nothing. That is a far better deal for entertainment than a lot of other choices.

If you can convince yourself that having a better than even chance of losing your money is entertainment, then by all means have some entertainment. For you it appears it ain't so risky.

Me, I'd rather go wash my hands again before getting to the buffet.

jmonroe

jmonroe

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said.

Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime.

I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel.

I'll never understand it.

Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data.

jmonroe

I'd no sooner walk into a casino than sit down to a game I knew was fixed. To my mind,
they amount to the same thing.

The odds on craps are about 1.5% against assuming proper play; the odds on roulette are
5.26% against; the odds on blackjack are about 1% against (depending upon the house rules),
again assuming proper play. Blackjack takes some talent to learn. There are 200 possible
hands on which you can stand, hit, double-down, surrender, or split. So while perfect play
gives the house a 1% advantage, the house actually rakes in about 20% due to imperfect play.

Typically, slots are set for a "take" of about 10%, but rumor has it that end of the aisle
slots are "looser" so as to create more excitement to attract more players.

You and I must be the two most boring people in here.

I thought I heard right about blackjack being the most favorable odds but if I screwed up it would be worse than 20% more like 100%.

I can't help but smile when I hear the old phrase, "I'm playing with house money". Not me; once I had that money it no longer belongs to the house, it belongs to me. So, the way I look at it, I'm always playing with my money.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

I've heard of people that play their "lucky number". I can't help myself so I ask is it really lucky? I've gotten a few responses like, "what do you mean"? I didn't think that was a hard question so I say, "have you won more than you have lost"? The honest ones say, "no, not really". Then I have others that have said, "I don't keep track". Based on that response I'd have to say some people can't even be honest about their "luck number".

So, Mr. Host, how has your "luck number" been treating you?

jmonroe

Pretty good.

I can think of a couple times where it's hit - once in Iowa, as previously mentioned, and once in Vegas.

Have I won more than I lost playing it? I dunno - I think it's pretty close to break even.

Some thing tells me that if you played your "lucky number" backwards you'd have the same success.

jmonroe

My lucky number is a palindrome, so you are 100% correct.

Michaell

And, I'd rather play golf than gamble. Even though it's far longer of a time commitment, I enjoy the aesthetics of the course design, the history, the scenery and being outside.

jmonroe

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

I've heard of people that play their "lucky number". I can't help myself so I ask is it really lucky? I've gotten a few responses like, "what do you mean"? I didn't think that was a hard question so I say, "have you won more than you have lost"? The honest ones say, "no, not really". Then I have others that have said, "I don't keep track". Based on that response I'd have to say some people can't even be honest about their "luck number".

So, Mr. Host, how has your "luck number" been treating you?

jmonroe

Pretty good.

I can think of a couple times where it's hit - once in Iowa, as previously mentioned, and once in Vegas.

Have I won more than I lost playing it? I dunno - I think it's pretty close to break even.

Some thing tells me that if you played your "lucky number" backwards you'd have the same success.

jmonroe

My lucky number is a palindrome, so you are 100% correct.

You're cheating yourself. You have no fall-back when you do stuff like that.

jmonroe

Michaell

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

jmonroe said:

Michaell said:

My gambling experience has been limited. Been to Vegas a number of times, but rarely gamble. Took a class on how to play craps once, but even at that slow of a pace, I couldn't understand it. Wife may play $20 in a slot machine, but our trips there are for seeing shows, eating good food, and relaxing.

Tried blackjack at a casino in Atlantic City once - lost $40 in 10 minutes. Never again.

I will play roulette every now and again. Pretty relaxed pace, and the odds make sense to me, even though I know they aren't in my favor. I'll always play my lucky number straight up, then do some other bets (black/red, odd/even, columns or rows) to lessen the pain.

If the lucky number hits (35-1!), I'll usually cash in. Did that on a riverboat in Dubuque, IA, once.

I've heard of people that play their "lucky number". I can't help myself so I ask is it really lucky? I've gotten a few responses like, "what do you mean"? I didn't think that was a hard question so I say, "have you won more than you have lost"? The honest ones say, "no, not really". Then I have others that have said, "I don't keep track". Based on that response I'd have to say some people can't even be honest about their "luck number".

So, Mr. Host, how has your "luck number" been treating you?

jmonroe

Pretty good.

I can think of a couple times where it's hit - once in Iowa, as previously mentioned, and once in Vegas.

Have I won more than I lost playing it? I dunno - I think it's pretty close to break even.

Some thing tells me that if you played your "lucky number" backwards you'd have the same success.

jmonroe

My lucky number is a palindrome, so you are 100% correct.

You're cheating yourself. You have no fall-back when you do stuff like that.

jmonroe

It's been at least 10 years since I've place any bet at a casino.

I'm not cheating myself.

jmonroe

fordfool said:

jmonroe said:

ab348 said:

bwia said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said.

Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime.

I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel.

I'll never understand it.

Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data.

jmonroe

I'd no sooner walk into a casino than sit down to a game I knew was fixed. To my mind,
they amount to the same thing.

The odds on craps are about 1.5% against assuming proper play; the odds on roulette are
5.26% against; the odds on blackjack are about 1% against (depending upon the house rules),
again assuming proper play. Blackjack takes some talent to learn. There are 200 possible
hands on which you can stand, hit, double-down, surrender, or split. So while perfect play
gives the house a 1% advantage, the house actually rakes in about 20% due to imperfect play.

Typically, slots are set for a "take" of about 10%, but rumor has it that end of the aisle
slots are "looser" so as to create more excitement to attract more players.

You and I must be the two most boring people in here.

I thought I heard right about blackjack being the most favorable odds for the player but that bit about if you screw-up the house odds go up to 20% doesn't apply to me, when I lose it's a 100% loss.

I have to smile at the old phrase, "I'm playing with house money". I don't look at it like that. Once that money is in my pocket, it no longer belongs to the house, it belongs to me. So, I'd always be playing with my money.

jmonroe

andres3

Black Jack can be cruel, but it can also be rewarding. I've several times enjoyed playing at tables 1-on-1 with a dealer in a double deck table. This way you can play a ton of hands very quickly, and if things go right, you can win a lot of money in just a few minutes betting only $5-$15/hand. Of course, it can go the other way too; often times Blackjack is a streaky game.

When the momentum is on your side, you just want to play a lot of hands before they do something to stop the momentum; like changing dealers and killing a card.

driver100

Michaell said:

And, I'd rather play golf than gamble. Even though it's far longer of a time commitment, I enjoy the aesthetics of the course design, the history, the scenery and being outside.

I'd rather play tennis, anticipating my opponents shot, the geometry of the court and path of the ball, the strategy, being outside, the trees and the blue sky.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

fintail said:

Bureaucracy is not really different in the US, positions where one is effectively untouchable in many roles after a certain time, and departments just do what they can to keep budgets intact, with insane pension systems that give a ROI unattainable for any normal investor, where you can retire at 55-60 with 80% of your highest income and COLAs guaranteed for life. It can't last forever.

Taxes aren't the evil, it's all about what you receive for taxes. My counterpart in developed Europe may pay a bit more in taxes, but receives more benefit for each unit of tax paid. A couple of ER visits in the past few years brought that home for me.

I think the scope and size of the praetorian sector is the key difference between Canada and the US, along with healthcare (the funds from fund the other depending on where one lives). It's a significant economic impact in the US, and many base their identity around it. Otherwise, for example,Vancouver is awfully like Seattle in demographics and attitudes (at least Vancouver had the stones to enact a pittance tax on black money real estate speculators, Seattle needs one too), and some Canadian areas away from urban cores (at least in my experience in BC) aren't that much different from their American counterparts - the "redneck" identity is alive and well. I think the same might be true say for ON vs NY.

It doesn't matter where you live (any country) has 'rednecks'.

Hey, easy on the slurs against farmers. The true Rednecks.

qbrozen

jmonroe said:

jmonroe said:

Some people enjoy gambling but I just can't get into it. I went to a casino once, at Foxwoods, but wasn't curious enough to approach the gaming tables or slot machines. Instead, I had a nice steak dinner and did some people watching.

I'm the same way. It may be a case of having a bad example to go on, but we have a smallish casino here and I find the place depressing. I have never been one for card games or the like either, so I guess it is just something I never got. Unfortunately in ours even the food is poor.

I have NEVER been to a casino and gambled. I've walked through a couple but never stopped to play. I doubt that I ever will unless I have at least a 50/50 chance of winning and since those places ain't going to change the odds, I feel safe about what I just said. Being as cheap as I am, I won't even throw down a dime unless I have an even chance at getting the dime that belongs to the house. I can't understand why anyone would even try, even with a dime. I think Vegas is more than happy to do business with people you say, "I have $400 to play and as soon as it's gone I quit". Then next year they say the same thing and then the years after that. Multiply this by millions of people, not to mention the millions of BIG losers, and pretty soon, up goes another high rise casino/hotel. I'll never understand it. Anyone in here know what the odds are in Vegas today, say for the slots and blackjack. I've heard you have better odds at blackjack than the slots but maybe I have old data. jmonroe

You have to look at it from an entertainment perspective. I don't understand the interest in playing golf, but I get that some people enjoy doing it. Playing cards is fun for lots of people, including me. Most of the time, I break even or get enough to pay for the buffet. So I had a good time for 4-6 hrs and it cost next to nothing. That is a far better deal for entertainment than a lot of other choices.

If you can convince yourself that having a better than even chance of losing your money is entertainment, then by all means have some entertainment. For you it appears it ain't so risky. Me, I'd rather go wash my hands again before getting to the buffet. jmonroe

I'm guaranteed 100% to lose my money with other forms of entertainment. One does not have to "convince oneself" what is entertaining. No need to belittle what others find enjoyable. You are better than that.

pensfan83

Michaell said:

And, I'd rather play golf than gamble. Even though it's far longer of a time commitment, I enjoy the aesthetics of the course design, the history, the scenery and being outside.

Gambling is almost safer for me. Give me $500, put me in a casino and I'm guaranteed to walk out with at least half of that money because I'll tire of losing it. Give me the same amount of money and put me in a pro shop and I'll walk out with empty pockets.

driver100

QB I'm guaranteed 100% to lose my money with other forms of entertainment. One does not have to "convince oneself" what is entertaining. No need to belittle what others find enjoyable. You are better than that

.

To be fair, I don't think JMonroe was criticizing anyone for choosing gambling as a form of entertainment;

>If you can convince yourself that having a better than even chance of losing your money is entertainment, then by all means have some entertainment. For you it appears it ain't so risky. Me, I'd rather go wash my hands again before getting to the buffet.

jmonroe

I don't feel I lose any money by playing tennis or pickleball....the value to me physically and mentally is worth more than what I pay to play. Golf can be pretty expensive, but people love to play and it adds to their well being. Gambling can have entertainment value as well, I am not so sure it has a positive effect on the body or mind.....not always, but quite often, quite the opposite. Reading a good book is probably a much cheaper form of entertainment (especially a library book) and it is probably much better from a mental well being perspective.

driver100

pensfan83 said:

Michaell said:

And, I'd rather play golf than gamble. Even though it's far longer of a time commitment, I enjoy the aesthetics of the course design, the history, the scenery and being outside.

Gambling is almost safer for me. Give me $500, put me in a casino and I'm guaranteed to walk out with at least half of that money because I'll tire of losing it. Give me the same amount of money and put me in a pro shop and I'll walk out with empty pockets.

At least if you go to the pro shop you got something to show for your $500!

ab348

One of the things I hated about the casino here (up until the time they banned it) was the tobacco smoke in there, it was thick. Gambling and smoking seemed inextricably linked. I don't know what it's like now in Vegas or in the Indian reservation casinos and if those are still smoker-friendly.

graphicguy

driver100 said:

pensfan83 said:

Michaell said:

And, I'd rather play golf than gamble. Even though it's far longer of a time commitment, I enjoy the aesthetics of the course design, the history, the scenery and being outside.

Gambling is almost safer for me. Give me $500, put me in a casino and I'm guaranteed to walk out with at least half of that money because I'll tire of losing it. Give me the same amount of money and put me in a pro shop and I'll walk out with empty pockets.

At least if you go to the pro shop you got something to show for your $500!

I will come away with something from the Pro Shop....a Driver that won't improve my game. A dozen balls that I will eventually lose in the water or in the woods. Maybe a putter which will still allow me to 3 (sometimes 4) putt.

Casinos.....either you like them, or you don't. I know the people who enjoy casinos are usually avid lottery players, too. I don't care one way or there other. But, there's no way I could sit at slots for hours on end as I see some people do. Blackjack? 3 Card Poker? Craps? Rightfully or wrongfully, I kind of feel like I have some control over my own outcome. None of the table games make for a winning outcome most times, though.

If you can tolerate the losing to feed the excitement of winning, an hour here, an hour there is entertaining for me. More than that? I know whatever I put into my pocket will come back out of it if I stay there long enough.

Got on a winning streak at 3 card poker some years ago while in Vegas at a convention. For two hours, I bet I only lost less than 6-7 times. My rule was if I lost 3 hands in a row, I'd walk away. That finally happened but not before I pocketed over $7K. The casino comped me a dinner and an extra night's stay. I took them up on it, but didn't play another hand.

Another time, I did the same on the craps table. Played for 3 hours. I gave my (then) wife some of the chips, and cashed in some, to avoid the obvious penalties by cashing in something near $11K.

But, this is over 25 years of casino play. Some years, I didn't play at all, either. Usually, I walk in and win or lose $250 at a time (mostly lose). All-in-all, I'm thinking I'm even....even considering the big wins.

It's only fun if you don't risk a lot, though.

pensfan83

@graphicguy and @driver100 so true about golf, but that's part of why we all play the game right? I have been playing since I was 16 years old and have never carded a game lower than 80, usually it's around 85-86. I'm content with that and simply try not to embarrass myself with a wayward drive or four putt. I'm thrilled if I string together 3-4 good holes over an entire round. But it's fun to play with a foursome and I find it cathartic to play a solitary round when I need to relax.

graphicguy

pensfan83 said:

@graphicguy and @driver100 so true about golf, but that's part of why we all play the game right? I have been playing since I was 16 years old and have never carded a game lower than 80, usually it's around 85-86. I'm content with that and simply try not to embarrass myself with a wayward drive or four putt. I'm thrilled if I string together 3-4 good holes over an entire round. But it's fun to play with a foursome and I find it cathartic to play a solitary round when I need to relax.

Same here. I'm not even remotely good. But, if I can get up and down 18 shooting in the 80s, that means I haven't really embarrassed myself. Courses are beautiful for the most part. It's an opportunity to have a little fun with my preferred 4 some.

Played solitary a few times. There's a course within 5 minutes of my home. After 6, I can go there and knock off 9 holes and get my head clear....work on my swing.

Travel schedule keeps me mostly off the course, however.

driver100

ab348 said:

One of the things I hated about the casino here (up until the time they banned it) was the tobacco smoke in there, it was thick. Gambling and smoking seemed inextricably linked. I don't know what it's like now in Vegas or in the Indian reservation casinos and if those are still smoker-friendly.

Some casinos allow smoking, and some don't! Just a guess, but the two habits - gambling and smoking do seem to go together. Maybe people who are susceptible to addictive habits take up these pastimes.

Ab, how are you feeling today?