Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100 · October 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:
I drive 85 on I-75 because 80% of the people do it and I like to keep up, but, I think it is too fast for most people.
I suspect if drivers were polled, 95% would say their driving skills at higher speeds far above the limit set by the professionals for that road were much better than average.

True...80% of drivers think they have above average skills. Think about that!
Yeah, and to think, us guys in here have to share the ~~planet~~ roads, with the rest of them. :@

jmonroe
The guys in here are in the top 1% I am sure....not wealth....driving ability.

This morning I made a left turn on the green arrow onto a two lane busy road, and I had to get into the right lane to turn right in about 50 yards. So I go from the left turn int o the left lane like I taught my students to do for years, and signalled to go into the right lane but of course the guy in the black Camry behind me went directly into the right lane at full speed....fortunately I instinctively knew he would do that so I was able to move in front of him before he got too close....and then he swung back into the left lane to get around me on that side.....I am sure he thinks he is Stirling Moss but he doesn't have a clue about how to drive properly.
That's one of the most annoying lazy driver moves. Just plain stupid. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who still turns into the closest lane and then moves to the right.

And you had to do it in a school bus...that would be really annoying.

I have a turn like that back home and most people go directly into the right lane most of the time - I guess they know they will be turning right in a block or two. Unfortunately, I have to kind of go half and half so I can still go into the left and do a proper turn, but still block the right lane or they will block me from getting into it.
Don't get me started on school bus procedures. Since that was the rule we had to left turn into the closest lane. We were also required to drive in the right most lane so we had to get over. EVERY time some racer boy would be trying to pass on the right in my blind spot.

Did I mention that my blood pressure went down 30 points when I retired?

We still have a big shortage of school bus drivers up here if you ever want to go back to it. Minimum wages and no pay between morning and afternoon run.

driver100 · October 2017

stickguy said:
I just spent a couple hours yesterday reading all the manuals from the new car. A pretty simple model, and still a giant stack. pretty logical once you get the basics down. Just takes a little practice.

Stick, you read the manuals?????? That's the problem. Way too much information. Just look it up when you actually have a problem.

stickguy · October 2017

I failed mine the first time (yes, it still eats at me). The course included a T intersection toward the end. I had done fine up to this point (almost completed the course). So I pull up to the stop line, and stop. But, there was some dope double parked directly in front of me. The evaluater had said to make a left at the stop sign. So I sat there a minute, looked both ways, then made the left, requiring me to go into the oncoming lane briefly to get around the parked car. Yup. I failed for crossing the center line or some such. I guess I was supposed to just sit there indefinitely waiting for the parked car to move. Never occurred to me to ask the DMV guy what to do, and he made no effort to tell me to do something else (only other option besides sitting there was to turn right, and deviate from the defined course).

I passed fine the 2nd time. No double parked car, but I guarantee if there had been, I would have sat there all day before making that move again.

jmonroe · October 2017

stickguy said:
I can't believe that everyone doesn't do it. Especially these days. how the heck do you figure out all the stuff it does otherwise?

I also read the manuals for everything not just cars.

Of course I'm a little sensitive to this subject because I wrote more than a few manuals while working and was asked to review may more. My fellow employees knew I would read them and provide worthwhile comments not just comments about spelling and grammar. It got to be a pain but it was part of the job.

I had some fun when customers called and asked questions that were clearly explained in a manual. Usually something like, "who has time to read a manual? I knew you'd know the answer". A few times I asked them to go to the manual, gave them the page number, and said, "if you need more help, call back".

jmonroe

jmonroe · October 2017

stickguy said:
this time I spent about 3 minutes with the sales guy looking at the car. We had bought the week before, but it was a dealer trade, so he was just doing the delivery (mostly keeping me company waiting for the finance guy to free up). About the only thing he showed me I did not know about was a fold down cargo hook in the truck (can hang a bag from it that you don;t want rolling around.

He was actually from the mazda store next to the Hyundai place. Having the Sonata, with mostly the same controls/set up, I probably knew more about how everything worked than he did.

I guess I missed the official announcement that you finally got your new car.

Good luck with it and give us a first month ownership review.

Man, you guys that keep getting new cars are ticking me off. Bad enough with the members in here, then we have to see what brothers have bought. There otta be an Edmunds law about that stuff. :@

jmonroe

jipster · October 2017

jmonroe said:

of course the guy in the black Camry behind me went directly into the right lane at full speed....fortunately I instinctively knew he would do that so I was able to move in front of him before he got too close....and then he swung back into the left lane to get around me on that side.....I am sure he thinks he is Stirling Moss but he doesn't have a clue about how to drive properly.
In this state he would be charged with an improper turn because he didn't go into the closest lane first then signal a lane change. When my son took his driver training and then did ride alongs with the local police, I was reminded of a lot of things and that was one.
I have a story about this. I don't think this will be too long. When Son#1 was learning to drive, I taught him to make a left turn and stay in the far left lane if he was turning onto a road that had two lanes. We did this countless times as he was learning to drive and he was very good at it. In fact, he was pretty good at everything, almost a natural. The week end before I took him for his test, I took him to the testing track and we walk the course like a lot of folks did back then. I pointed out that when he made his final left turn to head back to the last stop sign to finish the course, he should use his left turn signal, turn into the far left lane, put on his right turn signal on after a few seconds then move over into the right lane and be sure to turn off his turn signal. His response was, "Dad, I've done that hundreds of times. I know what to do"! I also pointed out a sign that said, "Keep Right Except to Pass". His response to that was, "OK I see the sign. I know what to do". Well the DOPE didn't know what to do. He passed everything EXCEPT pulling over into the right lane after making the left turn and because of that he failed the test. The next week when I took him for a retry, as he pulled up in line he saw the examiner that failed him walk towards the car and he said, "this otta be good". I got out of the car and said, "it damn well better be good this time because you're not coming back again for a month, at least, if this doesn't work today". While he saw the examiner, the examiner did not see him until he was about to get into the car. The examiner then said, "whoa, I'm not allowed to test you again because I have already failed you". The examiner walks over to another examiner and my Son sees them talking. After about a minute the other examiner gets in the car, looks at his permit that has a FAILED stamp on it and says, "I understand that you are a pretty good driver but your reading/comprehension skills need improvement. Let's try this again. Let's go". Fortunately, he passed on his second try. BTW, I have a tale about when I took my driver's test. I'll tell that later. Don't worry, I passed the first time but there is an interesting story that happened at the very end of my

Sounds familiar. My son #1 has had his drivers permit for a couple of months now. I've gone completely gray and bald in that time. :-( One would think with the number of driving and racing video games he's played, he would be pretty good. Not so. Almost took out our mailbox pulling out of the driveway for the first time. Next day going too fast on a right turn...almost took out a stop sign. He's gotten much better since then. Mailboxes are fairly safe now. I'm starting to grow a few hairs back.

But my son will be taking his driving test in a couple of months. If he continues with good grades we promised him the same deal we gave our daughter. That is keep good grades, and the summer before his senior year of high school, we would help him get a car in the $5k-$6k range. He's thinking 8 cylinder Mustangs. I'm thinking 4 cylinder Honda Civics. So the question for our panel of experts, which is a good middle ground car for that kind of money? Safe. Good visibility. Reliable. 4 cylinder. A bit sporty...maybe fool him with a do nothing spoiler. Looks fast but isnt. Coupes? Any suggestions or comments appreciated. I've started looking at cars, and brushing up on "The Jipst Method of Used Car Buying", as I've gotten a bit rusty these past few years., Still about 7 months away, but wanting to get some ideas. Thx.

oldfarmer50 · October 2017

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:
I drive 85 on I-75 because 80% of the people do it and I like to keep up, but, I think it is too fast for most people.
I suspect if drivers were polled, 95% would say their driving skills at higher speeds far above the limit set by the professionals for that road were much better than average.

True...80% of drivers think they have above average skills. Think about that!
Yeah, and to think, us guys in here have to share the ~~planet~~ roads, with the rest of them. :@

jmonroe
The guys in here are in the top 1% I am sure....not wealth....driving ability.

This morning I made a left turn on the green arrow onto a two lane busy road, and I had to get into the right lane to turn right in about 50 yards. So I go from the left turn int o the left lane like I taught my students to do for years, and signalled to go into the right lane but of course the guy in the black Camry behind me went directly into the right lane at full speed....fortunately I instinctively knew he would do that so I was able to move in front of him before he got too close....and then he swung back into the left lane to get around me on that side.....I am sure he thinks he is Stirling Moss but he doesn't have a clue about how to drive properly.
That's one of the most annoying lazy driver moves. Just plain stupid. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who still turns into the closest lane and then moves to the right.

And you had to do it in a school bus...that would be really annoying.

I have a turn like that back home and most people go directly into the right lane most of the time - I guess they know they will be turning right in a block or two. Unfortunately, I have to kind of go half and half so I can still go into the left and do a proper turn, but still block the right lane or they will block me from getting into it.
Don't get me started on school bus procedures. Since that was the rule we had to left turn into the closest lane. We were also required to drive in the right most lane so we had to get over. EVERY time some racer boy would be trying to pass on the right in my blind spot.

Did I mention that my blood pressure went down 30 points when I retired?
We still have a big shortage of school bus drivers up here if you ever want to go back to it. Minimum wages and no pay between morning and afternoon run.

I don't get that, if you have that kind of shortage why don't they raise the pay? In my area we were making about two and a half times minimum wage and they still were short. Of course since our local politicians decided to buy votes from the Micky D's workers with dramatic min. wage increases it will soon be comparable to flipping burgers. Can't imagine that will help the shortages.

oldfarmer50 · October 2017

jipster said:

jmonroe said:

of course the guy in the black Camry behind me went directly into the right lane at full speed....fortunately I instinctively knew he would do that so I was able to move in front of him before he got too close....and then he swung back into the left lane to get around me on that side.....I am sure he thinks he is Stirling Moss but he doesn't have a clue about how to drive properly.
In this state he would be charged with an improper turn because he didn't go into the closest lane first then signal a lane change. When my son took his driver training and then did ride alongs with the local police, I was reminded of a lot of things and that was one.

I have a story about this. I don't think this will be too long.

When Son#1 was learning to drive, I taught him to make a left turn and stay in the far left lane if he was turning onto a road that had two lanes. We did this countless times as he was learning to drive and he was very good at it. In fact, he was pretty good at everything, almost a natural.

The week end before I took him for his test, I took him to the testing track and we walk the course like a lot of folks did back then. I pointed out that when he made his final left turn to head back to the last stop sign to finish the course, he should use his left turn signal, turn into the far left lane, put on his right turn signal on after a few seconds then move over into the right lane and be sure to turn off his turn signal. His response was, "Dad, I've done that hundreds of times. I know what to do"! I also pointed out a sign that said, "Keep Right Except to Pass". His response to that was, "OK I see the sign. I know what to do".

Well the DOPE didn't know what to do. He passed everything EXCEPT pulling over into the right lane after making the left turn and because of that he failed the test.

The next week when I took him for a retry, as he pulled up in line he saw the examiner that failed him walk towards the car and he said, "this otta be good". I got out of the car and said, "it damn well better be good this time because you're not coming back again for a month, at least, if this doesn't work today".

While he saw the examiner, the examiner did not see him until he was about to get into the car. The examiner then said, "whoa, I'm not allowed to test you again because I have already failed you". The examiner walks over to another examiner and my Son sees them talking. After about a minute the other examiner gets in the car, looks at his permit that has a FAILED stamp on it and says, "I understand that you are a pretty good driver but your reading/comprehension skills need improvement. Let's try this again. Let's go".

Fortunately, he passed on his second try.

BTW, I have a tale about when I took my driver's test. I'll tell that later. Don't worry, I passed the first time but there is an interesting story that happened at the very end of my

Sounds familiar. My son #1 has had his drivers permit for a couple of months now. I've gone completely gray and bald in that time. :-( One would think with the number of driving and racing video games he's played, he would be pretty good. Not so. Almost took out our mailbox pulling out of the driveway for the first time. Next day going too fast on a right turn...almost took out a stop sign. He's gotten much better since then. Mailboxes are fairly safe now. I'm starting to grow a few hairs back.

But my son will be taking his driving test in a couple of months. If he continues with good grades we promised him the same deal we gave our daughter. That is keep good grades, and the summer before his senior year of high school, we would help him get a car in the $5k-$6k range. He's thinking 8 cylinder Mustangs. I'm thinking 4 cylinder Honda Civics. So the question for our panel of experts, which is a good middle ground car for that kind of money? Safe. Good visibility. Reliable. 4 cylinder. A bit sporty...maybe fool him with a do nothing spoiler. Looks fast but isnt. Coupes? Any suggestions or comments appreciated. I've started looking at cars, and brushing up on "The Jipst Method of Used Car Buying", as I've gotten a bit rusty these past few years., Still about 7 months away, but wanting to get some ideas. Thx.

You should fly me out and have me take over his driver's ed, my trainees have a 100% first time pass rate. That includes my son who crashed the car second time out.

stickguy · October 2017

Jip, only concern with a coupe is checking on the insurance to make sure it is not jacked up.

Based on your criteria, an Altima coupe could work. Civics are always nice, but pricey. Maybe a Mazda 3i?

imidazol97 · October 2017

jmonroe said:
Man, you guys that keep getting new cars are ticking me off. Bad enough with the members in here, then we have to see what brothers have bought. There otta be an Edmunds stuff. :@

Watching all the churn helps me sublimate my urges to go car shopping. I'm perfectly happy with my 14 Malibu with a rear seat with plenty of leg room, more than some of the peers that Main Stream auto media wouldn't have admitted. It's a great car, quiet, stable, sharp handling with the 18" wheels and Goodyear Eagle tyres. No visits to dealer for anything requiring repair other than a software update early on and questions about the stop-start operation (needs an "off" switch).

Lane wander warning, collision alert, blind spot warning in mirror on the appropriate side, rear cross traffic alert. It won't drive itself down the road like some newer models, but if I let go of the steering wheel it keeps going staight... LOL.

Has a normal height for seat making it easy to slide in and out, i.e., it's not lower making it more difficult to get in and out.

driver100 · October 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:
I drive 85 on I-75 because 80% of the people do it and I like to keep up, but, I think it is too fast for most people.
I suspect if drivers were polled, 95% would say their driving skills at higher speeds far above the limit set by the professionals for that road were much better than average.

True...80% of drivers think they have above average skills. Think about that!
Yeah, and to think, us guys in here have to share the ~~planet~~ roads, with the rest of them. :@

jmonroe
The guys in here are in the top 1% I am sure....not wealth....driving ability.

This morning I made a left turn on the green arrow onto a two lane busy road, and I had to get into the right lane to turn right in about 50 yards. So I go from the left turn int o the left lane like I taught my students to do for years, and signalled to go into the right lane but of course the guy in the black Camry behind me went directly into the right lane at full speed....fortunately I instinctively knew he would do that so I was able to move in front of him before he got too close....and then he swung back into the left lane to get around me on that side.....I am sure he thinks he is Stirling Moss but he doesn't have a clue about how to drive properly.
That's one of the most annoying lazy driver moves. Just plain stupid. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who still turns into the closest lane and then moves to the right.

And you had to do it in a school bus...that would be really annoying.

I have a turn like that back home and most people go directly into the right lane most of the time - I guess they know they will be turning right in a block or two. Unfortunately, I have to kind of go half and half so I can still go into the left and do a proper turn, but still block the right lane or they will block me from getting into it.
Don't get me started on school bus procedures. Since that was the rule we had to left turn into the closest lane. We were also required to drive in the right most lane so we had to get over. EVERY time some racer boy would be trying to pass on the right in my blind spot.

Did I mention that my blood pressure went down 30 points when I retired?
We still have a big shortage of school bus drivers up here if you ever want to go back to it. Minimum wages and no pay between morning and afternoon run.
I don't get that, if you have that kind of shortage why don't they raise the pay? In my area we were making about two and a half times minimum wage and they still were short. Of course since our local politicians decided to buy votes from the Micky D's workers with dramatic min. wage increases it will soon be comparable to flipping burgers. Can't imagine that will help the shortages.

I believe the bus companies are locked into an agreement based on the current pay and would lose their shirts if they paid more. Right now the bus drivers have to pick up and unload about 18 extra students a day. Our provincial government is doing a similar thing....they have done such a terrible job wasting money and have had so many big scandals they are now buying votes - raising minimum wage from $11.40 an hour to $15 in two years. Business owners say they will have to cut staff, some borderline businesses will go under, and places like grocery stores and McD's will do more automation.

driver100 · October 2017

When I taught driving to students I was taught....even if you are turning onto a one lane street, you should end up close to the center line, and then move over into the center of the lane after a few feet. It is good form.

Also, when changing lanes, technically, the signal light should only go on once you are sure the lane you are going into is clear. Many people put their signal on and then start to look around or they signal and just move in.

These are very find points, but keep people from getting sloppy. The guy in the lane you are trying to get into shouldn't have to be scared you are just going to jump into his lane - that is what the signal light will do if it is put on if there is a car already there.

stickguy · October 2017

Driver, something that helps in this area is that some intersections (particularly ones that have confusing lane arrangements) have dotted lines painted through the intersection to define the lanes, to help avoid that type of wandering.. Also helps keep people from getting on the wrong side of the medians! A simple idea, cheap, yet very effective.

stickguy · October 2017

some random thoughts on recent purchasing experience. Went to quite a few dealers, and requested via website or Email quotes from a number of them. Varying levels of success, but in most cases, was able to get what I needed. A few have very efficient internet departments, which was nice to see. So you can shop "modern" if you want to. Very little actual need to negotiate in person, though a few dealers (salespeople) were upfront about getting a better deal worked out if you came in (probably!)

The deal I ended up going with worked just like you would want. Actually submitted for quotes through trucar. got a few back, one which was particularly strong, on the car I wanted. This was on Sunday night. By Monday morning, I had a couple emails and a phone call from the internet rep at the dealer. Went through my wants (color, which had to be located) but he confirmed the price (slightly variable based on accessories on the unit they finally located and brought in). Numbers were good, so agreed. Did need to go in to finalize paperwork and sign a buyers order so they could go get the car (and to nail down a specific unit), but that was just a matter of chatting with sales manager (well, a sales guy doing the legwork and copying, etc.) but the pricing was all as agreed to.

Picked out a car, signed the order, filled out credit app, and was done. Price never changed. Just had to go back when the car arrived, sign the finance forms, and take it away.

So basically no negotiation, all done electronically, with the key point (getting the price!) taken care of before even speaking to a person. Easy Peasy.

graphicguy · October 2017

@stickguy ....I use WAZE in rental cars, essentially because I’m in areas I am not familiar with. I use a phone holder mounted to the car vents with the iPhone’s screen and speaker.

Using my car, I use either the car’s NAV or Apple CarPlay on the NAV Screen and my stereo speakers. Apple Maps has become MUCH better than when it first came out.

abacomike · October 2017

stickguy said:

some random thoughts on recent purchasing experience. Went to quite a few dealers, and requested via website or Email quotes from a number of them. Varying levels of success, but in most cases, was able to get what I needed. A few have very efficient internet departments, which was nice to see. So you can shop "modern" if you want to. Very little actual need to negotiate in person, though a few dealers (salespeople) were upfront about getting a better deal worked out if you came in (probably!) The deal I ended up going with worked just like you would want. Actually submitted for quotes through trucar. got a few back, one which was particularly strong, on the car I wanted. This was on Sunday night. By Monday morning, I had a couple emails and a phone call from the internet rep at the dealer. Went through my wants (color, which had to be located) but he confirmed the price (slightly variable based on accessories on the unit they finally located and brought in). Numbers were good, so agreed. Did need to go in to finalize paperwork and sign a buyers order so they could go get the car (and to nail down a specific unit), but that was just a matter of chatting with sales manager (well, a sales guy doing the legwork and copying, etc.) but the pricing was all as agreed to. Picked out a car, signed the order, filled out credit app, and was done. Price never changed. Just had to go back when the car arrived, sign the finance forms, and take it away. So basically no negotiation, all done electronically, with the key point (getting the price!) taken care of before even speaking to a person. Easy Peasy.

Congrats, stick. Enjoy!

berri · October 2017

Interesting purchase experience Stick. I forget, did you have a trade in on this deal? Hope the new vehicle goes as smoothly as the sale transaction. Odds are it will.

oldfarmer50 · October 2017

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:
I can't believe that everyone doesn't do it. Especially these days. how the heck do you figure out all the stuff it does otherwise?
I also read the manuals for everything not just cars.

Of course I'm a little sensitive to this subject because I wrote more than a few manuals while working and was asked to review may more. My fellow employees knew I would read them and provide worthwhile comments not just comments about spelling and grammar. It got to be a pain but it was part of the job.

I had some fun when customers called and asked questions that were clearly explained in a manual. Usually something like, "who has time to read a manual? I knew you'd know the answer". A few times I asked them to go to the manual, gave them the page number, and said, "if you need more help, call back".

jmonroe

Don't underestimate the ability of people to misunderstand. I was listening to a radio discussion about deer/car collisions and the panel was having a laugh over someone who suggested moving the deer crossing signs to less busy highways.

stickguy · October 2017

no trade in, which always makes a deal much simpler, especially if trying to do via email or phone calls.

abacomike · October 2017

After several go-rounds with LM, I got fed up with their inability to answer my questions about my renewal premium and renewal coverages. So, I did decide to go with the Gecko! After all, $450.00 a year is still $450. That buys a lot of gasoline, that's for sure. So I let LM know I will not be renewing my auto insurance with their company on Nov. 30th.

From what I was able to glean from many conversations I had over the phone with their people, the major reason for the increase in premium was due to the $2100 claim I had for the windshield replacement - stone hit drivers side of windshield so it had to be replaced - the heads-up display and radar sensors coupled with the rain sensing devices, was the major reason for the costly windshield. They claim that because it was such a large claim, they raised my rates even though I have no accidents or tickets. I also lost my accident-free rates because of the comprehensive claim. That's nasty - it was a claim against my comprehensive coverage - not a collision claim. So, they get you coming and going.

The Gecko also provided me with better coverages (towing and labor and higher reimbursements for rental cars). I am well aware that after 6 months, it is quite possible my rates will once again go up as they did the last time I was with the Gecko, but at least I did not allow an insurance company to take advantage of me. What LM did was most unfortunate.

Thanks to all for your input on insurance info - I took your advice and it paid off. Much obliged.

abacomike · October 2017

That tropical storm finally passed through us yesterday and last night. We are still having some residual rain storms, but the worst is over. We had 4.5 inches of rain from that storm. I am storm weary - this year has been a rough one. I sincerely hope that was the last of the storms for this hurricane season. Enough is enough!

stickguy · October 2017

we are getting the remnants of that storm system today up in Jersey and NYC I think. Lot of rain this morning, and really heavy now out at the shore. Thankfully a bit of a lull inland where I am for now.

driver100 · October 2017

stickguy said:
Driver, something that helps in this area is that some intersections (particularly ones that have confusing lane arrangements) have dotted lines painted through the intersection to define the lanes, to help avoid that type of wandering.. Also helps keep people from getting on the wrong side of the medians! A simple idea, cheap, yet very effective.

Stick.....I like those dotted lines, and these days they are almost necessary as many people don't know what arc they should be turning in. These days you need all the help you can get.

driver100 · October 2017

I have a friend who doesn't buy a new used car very often...he drives them for a long time. He found a friend who was buying a Honda Odyssey and had a Toyota Venza that he was trading in. He bought the Venza and loves it.

Now he is trying to sell his 97 Avalon that has 160000 miles on it. Only wants $1000. What do you think the chances are someone will buy it.

Hey, oldfarmer.....what do you think?

(not the car...it is pretty solid but not in as good shape)

.

isellhondas · October 2017

My stepdad was a Driver's License Examiner for over 30 years in California. How he managed to do this is beyond me. He was never in an accident but he had several close calls and on several occasions he had to grab the steering wheel.

I had the bejessus scared out of me on several test drives AND these people had already passed their Driver's License Exam! People with International Driver's Licenses were the worst! On at least three occasions I had the people driving pull over and I drove back to the store. I once pulled up the parking brake to stop a crazy driver.

Then there were the ones who had some "unique" ways of "testing" a car such as jerking the steering wheel violently back and forth or making tight circles in a parking lot!

People new to the country could be downright terrifying to the point I wouldn't let them on the freeway.

Test drives were probably the worst thing about the job and even now I don't like riding as a passenger in a car.

suydam · October 2017

abacomike said:

After several go-rounds with LM, I got fed up with their inability to answer my questions about my renewal premium and renewal coverages. So, I did decide to go with the Gecko! After all, $450.00 a year is still $450. That buys a lot of gasoline, that's for sure. So I let LM know I will not be renewing my auto insurance with their company on Nov. 30th. From what I was able to glean from many conversations I had over the phone with their people, the major reason for the increase in premium was due to the $2100 claim I had for the windshield replacement - stone hit drivers side of windshield so it had to be replaced - the heads-up display and radar sensors coupled with the rain sensing devices, was the major reason for the costly windshield. They claim that because it was such a large claim, they raised my rates even though I have no accidents or tickets. I also lost my accident-free rates because of the comprehensive claim. That's nasty - it was a claim against my comprehensive coverage - not a collision claim. So, they get you coming and going. The Gecko also provided me with better coverages (towing and labor and higher reimbursements for rental cars). I am well aware that after 6 months, it is quite possible my rates will once again go up as they did the last time I was with the Gecko, but at least I did not allow an insurance company to take advantage of me. What LM did was most unfortunate. Thanks to all for your input on insurance info - I took your advice and it paid off. Much obliged.

It sucks but any claim raises your rates.

suydam · October 2017

@isellhondas I think it will sell quickly. That’s a great first driver car. Low insurance and if something happens — as it usually will — you’re not out too much.

oldfarmer50 · October 2017

driver100 said:
I have a friend who doesn't buy a new used car very often...he drives them for a long time. He found a friend who was buying a Honda Odyssey and had a Toyota Venza that he was trading in. He bought the Venza and loves it.

Now he is trying to sell his 97 Avalon that has 160000 miles on it. Only wants $1000. What do you think the chances are someone will buy it.

Hey, oldfarmer.....what do you think?

(not the car...it is pretty solid but not in as good shape)

.

160k even for a Toyota is a bit much for me but I guess that's what a thousand buys these days. Now, the next time you know somebody selling one with 50k mikes let me know.

I did find a car for Jipster's kid.

driver100 · October 2017

Here is U.S. News and World report top 10 cars for young people....including Buick Verano. I think it is an OK list, maybe some additions and deletions.
10 Best Cars for Young Drivers

Some cars that come to mind are; Civic, Focus, Mazda 3, Cruze, Scion, Corolla, most Kia's and Hyundais, Honda Fit. How about a 97 Avalon?

suydam · October 2017

Big, old, and slow is best for inexperienced drivers!

snakeweasel · October 2017

suydam said:l.p.

To be even handed can I add LET’S GO DODGERS!!

I am rooting for the Astros as they never won a World Series.

snakeweasel · October 2017

driver100 said:

CR ratings might not be entirely accurate, but, their finding do mean something...they don't take the facts out of thin air. Here is a brief breakdown of some findings; Newly Recommended Models With Improved Reliability Audi A3, Chrysler Pacifica, Ford F-150, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Ram 1500, Volkswagen Golf Alltrack, Volkswagen Passat. No-Longer-Recommended Models With Declining Reliability Acura MDX, Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac CT6, Cadillac XTS, Chevrolet Camaro, Chevrolet Corvette, Chevrolet Cruze, Chevrolet Equinox, Chrysler 300, GMC Acadia, Hyundai Tucson, Mazda CX-9, Mazda MX-5 Miata, Mercedes-Benz GLC, Nissan Maxima, Porsche Cayenne, Subaru Impreza. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am looking for a more complete list. Of course, top picks for reliability.....Toyota! Consumer Reports

The problem with CR is self reporting bias. As an example someone may report based of their preconceived perceptions that may not reflect reality.

driver100 · October 2017

That happens in every survey, review and news story for that matter....almost everything in fact. If you buy a particular car you probably have a favorable bias for that car, that is why you bought it. But, if you buy it, and have major problems, or don't like something about it....that could be valuable information.

In short, trust no one, but try to figure out what does make sense from the information.

fintail · October 2017

One of my roommates when I was in school was a foreign student. I'll just say it took more than one attempt for him to pass his test - but he did it. I also remember going on test drives with him. I recall a close call in a Camry that had the salesman turning pale. He ended up getting an Accord (he wanted a green car, and Honda had a green that he liked) - he was a little afraid of it, and asked me to drive it back from the dealer for him (!?). He eventually warmed up to it, and I saw him a few years later, the car was still intact.

I work with a lot of first generation people, the highway seems to be the common theme in what they like least about driving here. That amuses me, as I prefer it, and compared to the highway where they are from, ours are paradise.

isellhondas said:
My stepdad was a Driver's License Examiner for over 30 years in California. How he managed to do this is beyond me. He was never in an accident but he had several close calls and on several occasions he had to grab the steering wheel.

I had the bejessus scared out of me on several test drives AND these people had already passed their Driver's License Exam! People with International Driver's Licenses were the worst! On at least three occasions I had the people driving pull over and I drove back to the store. I once pulled up the parking brake to stop a crazy driver.

Then there were the ones who had some "unique" ways of "testing" a car such as jerking the steering wheel violently back and forth or making tight circles in a parking lot!

People new to the country could be downright terrifying to the point I wouldn't let them on the freeway.

Test drives were probably the worst thing about the job and even now I don't like riding as a passenger in a car.

fintail · October 2017

There will be increased automation no matter minimum wage, as the automation is cheaper than any legit minimum wage, even the regressive one in the US. IMO, automation is a red herring when the pros and cons of minimum wages issues are discussed. This lag will just increase pressure for a guaranteed minimum income, as minimum wage already significantly lags what it was (adjusted) in the late 60s when the middle class was still strong and some lucky ones were getting started - and those basic CPI/inflation numbers don't adequately touch subjects like housing, education, and medical costs.

driver100 said:

Business owners say they will have to cut staff, some borderline businesses will go under, and places like grocery stores and McD's will do more automation.

berri · October 2017

I dunno - if you survey dealer service departments instead, they sometimes play around with data for billing purposes (not unlike what physician offices have to do).

PF_Flyer · October 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

PF_Flyer said:
Pic doesn't quite get it across (phones are NOT cameras ), but I really liked this root beer color on a Subaru next to me in traffic yesterday

Can't really tell from that pic but I've seen some of those root beer metallic paints that I liked even though my mind told me I shouldn't

Is this the color?

Close. It was a little bit lighter. But I know what you mean. A BROWN car? I like a BROWN car?

driver100 · October 2017

fintail said:
There will be increased automation no matter minimum wage, as the automation is cheaper than any legit minimum wage, even the regressive one in the US. IMO, automation is a red herring when the pros and cons of minimum wages issues are discussed. This lag will just increase pressure for a guaranteed minimum income, as minimum wage already significantly lags what it was (adjusted) in the late 60s when the middle class was still strong and some lucky ones were getting started - and those basic CPI/inflation numbers don't adequately touch subjects like housing, education, and medical costs.

driver100 said:

Business owners say they will have to cut staff, some borderline businesses will go under, and places like grocery stores and McD's will do more automation.

Few people rely on a minimum wage job for a long term. It is hopefully a temporary job or a secondary job to go on to something that does pay a livable wage. Raising the minimum wage unrealistically will cause business to get by with fewer workers, and there will be fewer jobs.
We always paid our staff more than the minimum wage, except in the very early stages, when we had no idea if we would make it or not. It sounds great, pay people more........but, it isn't as simple as it sounds.
I do agree automation will happen no matter what, but, raising the minimum wage by 30% in two years like they are doing in Ontario Canada, is a real hardship for businesses. If you are doing it do it over 4 or 5 years, and then do it adjusted for inflation....not a big catch up.

houdini1 · October 2017

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe said:
Man, you guys that keep getting new cars are ticking me off. Bad enough with the members in here, then we have to see what brothers have bought. There otta be an Edmunds stuff. :@
Watching all the churn helps me sublimate my urges to go car shopping. I'm perfectly happy with my 14 Malibu with a rear seat with plenty of leg room, more than some of the peers that Main Stream auto media wouldn't have admitted. It's a great car, quiet, stable, sharp handling with the 18" wheels and Goodyear Eagle tyres. No visits to dealer for anything requiring repair other than a software update early on and questions about the stop-start operation (needs an "off" switch).

Lane wander warning, collision alert, blind spot warning in mirror on the appropriate side, rear cross traffic alert. It won't drive itself down the road like some newer models, but if I let go of the steering wheel it keeps going staight... LOL.

Has a normal height for seat making it easy to slide in and out, i.e., it's not lower making it more difficult to get in and out.

With that kind of talk I predict a new car in your future soon !!

suydam · October 2017

driver100 said:
That happens in every survey, review and news story for that matter....almost everything in fact. If you buy a particular car you probably have a favorable bias for that car, that is why you bought it. But, if you buy it, and have major problems, or don't like something about it....that could be valuable information.

In short, trust no one, but try to figure out what does make sense from the information.

The key to having more validity than others is to have a very large sample size, as CR does.
Also, the auto survey is bundled in with other surveys like air conditioners and appliances. You have to fill them all out. Cuts down on vendetta reporting as it’s more work!

houdini1 · October 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:
I can't believe that everyone doesn't do it. Especially these days. how the heck do you figure out all the stuff it does otherwise?
I also read the manuals for everything not just cars.

Of course I'm a little sensitive to this subject because I wrote more than a few manuals while working and was asked to review may more. My fellow employees knew I would read them and provide worthwhile comments not just comments about spelling and grammar. It got to be a pain but it was part of the job.

I had some fun when customers called and asked questions that were clearly explained in a manual. Usually something like, "who has time to read a manual? I knew you'd know the answer". A few times I asked them to go to the manual, gave them the page number, and said, "if you need more help, call back".

jmonroe
Don't underestimate the ability of people to misunderstand. I was listening to a radio discussion about deer/car collisions and the panel was having a laugh over someone who suggested moving the deer crossing signs to less busy highways.

For a minute there I thought you were going to use President Bush's word: Misunderestimate.

ab348 · October 2017

Interesting instance of left-lane blocking today.

I went up to Nova Scotia wine country today in the Annapolis Valley, a little bit more than an hour outside of where I live. A long stretch of the highway is fairly new and among the best you'll find here - dual carriageways separated by a wide median, with long, mostly straight and flat sections without much development alongside. It is much more like a rural US interstate than most of our main highways here. The result of all this is that it is one of the roads where cars go faster than most of our other highways here.

Traffic was fairly heavy but moving well. I had cruise set on 120 km/h (just over 70 mph) and was passing some while others were sometimes passing me. In my mirrors I noticed a black Mustang in the left lane coming up on me. As he pulled alongside I could see it was a GT and he blew past with a loud and fairly obnoxious exhaust note.

He stayed in the left lane and I could hear the engine even when he got some distance ahead despite all my windows being closed. I saw him coming up on a car in the left lane and his brake lights came on. There was a long line of cars in the right lane so he had nowhere to go. I was now catching up and could see that the car ahead of him was a Corolla. This driver was not concerned at all, probably figuring they were already going faster than the limit and so why be pushed by this guy? It was hilarious but must have been aggravating for Mr. GT. The engine would rev, then slow, rev, then slow. Finally after more than 5 minutes the Corolla finally decided to move right and the Mustang barked and vanished immediately. I can only imagine the dialog inside the GT, if they could hear each other over the engine sound.

driver100 · October 2017

That happens a lot in many variations....are you sure it was a Corolla and not a Prius? Prius owners feel they are allowed more latitude, since they are doing so much more to save the planet.

suydam · October 2017

No judgments there.

fintail · October 2017

I think that might be looking through 1969-colored glasses, or relying on those who make minimum wage + 50 cents not being counted. As we've evolved into a service-based economy, I have no doubt jobs +10% or so are a bigger factor than in the past. Who defines what is unrealistic? I've seen plenty of holes poked in the fewer workers claim, too.

IMO, minimum wage should have been forced to keep up with CPI or inflation indices, and started at the point at what was probably the zenith of the working/middle class, the late 60s. As it is now, the wages are significantly less than most points in the past (not to mention other first world nations), yet many cost of living factors are significantly more. This isn't going to end well.

driver100 said:

Few people rely on a minimum wage job for a long term. It is hopefully a temporary job or a secondary job to go on to something that does pay a livable wage. Raising the minimum wage unrealistically will cause business to get by with fewer workers, and there will be fewer jobs.
We always paid our staff more than the minimum wage, except in the very early stages, when we had no idea if we would make it or not. It sounds great, pay people more........but, it isn't as simple as it sounds.
I do agree automation will happen no matter what, but, raising the minimum wage by 30% in two years like they are doing in Ontario Canada, is a real hardship for businesses. If you are doing it do it over 4 or 5 years, and then do it adjusted for inflation....not a big catch up.

imidazol97 · October 2017

suydam said:
The key to having more validity than others is to have a very large sample size, as CR does.

The validity comes from having the proper questions to determine what the survey is thinking it measures. Some people question the validity because of the inability of the questions, as used, to discriminate between minor problems such as having trouble with some bluetooth phone types pairing to the electronics and problems such as a transmission shifting roughly because it's a double clutch type.

The reliability of a question set comes from having a large number of people responding if and only if those people are random, geographically and demographically. CR's questionnaire is not randomized at all. The first problem is it's only made available to their subscribers, who do not represent a random type of person, not at all.

CR does not release their democraphics for their car surveys nor do they release the sample sizes for each brand and model. Hmmmmmm.

The industry data on warranty claims work would give a better representation of reliability. I believe some folks are able to access that kind of info. However, it's backward looking only--it does not predict what the newly minted Accord or modified camry will have as their record in the next 3 years for the '18 models. It only tells what the last year and before had as a warranty claims record.

driver100 · October 2017

fintail said:
I think that might be looking through 1969-colored glasses, or relying on those who make minimum wage + 50 cents not being counted. As we've evolved into a service-based economy, I have no doubt jobs +10% or so are a bigger factor than in the past. Who defines what is unrealistic? I've seen plenty of holes poked in the fewer workers claim, too.

IMO, minimum wage should have been forced to keep up with CPI or inflation indices, and started at the point at what was probably the zenith of the working/middle class, the late 60s. As it is now, the wages are significantly less than most points in the past (not to mention other first world nations), yet many cost of living factors are significantly more. This isn't going to end well.

driver100 said:

Few people rely on a minimum wage job for a long term. It is hopefully a temporary job or a secondary job to go on to something that does pay a livable wage. Raising the minimum wage unrealistically will cause business to get by with fewer workers, and there will be fewer jobs.
We always paid our staff more than the minimum wage, except in the very early stages, when we had no idea if we would make it or not. It sounds great, pay people more........but, it isn't as simple as it sounds.
I do agree automation will happen no matter what, but, raising the minimum wage by 30% in two years like they are doing in Ontario Canada, is a real hardship for businesses. If you are doing it do it over 4 or 5 years, and then do it adjusted for inflation....not a big catch up.

If minimum wage was tied to inflation index that would be fair. However, conservatives like to limit minimum wages to grow business (the theory goes), liberals like to raise minimum wage to gain votes.

Minimum wage should go up with the price index, but, few businesses can absorb a 30% increase in minimum wages over 2 years as we are seeing in Ontario Canada. Some day cares have calculated that will increase their expenses by about 45% because wages are a large part of their expenses.

No one knows how it will work out in the end, but, few small businesses can easily absorb such an increase, and small business has to be handled gently, as that is the real hope for jobs going forward.

I do repeat, a minimum wage job...and I have had them,,,,,should be a stepping stone to something better. And, maybe a job is only worth, what someone would pay to have it done....minimum wages are necessary, but, pretty arbitrary. A lot of jobs aren't worth $15 an hour...that will be the new minimum.

ab348 · October 2017

driver100 said:
A lot of jobs aren't worth $15 an hour...that will be the new minimum.

Those discussions are happening here too. What's interesting are the leaders of both public and private sector unions saying that if it happens, they will be demanding similar increases for their members across the board to keep the gap between their members and the minimum wage crowd the same as it now is.

snakeweasel · October 2017

fintail said:l.p.

Yep, I think it is 50cc or 30mph. I don't disagree with it, but I find it sadly amusing that more dangerous vehicles require nothing but fogging a mirror/getting a license from our newly privatized testing system.
I think anything over 50cc requires an endorsement here in WA.

I do believe that there is a horsepower limit too, IIRC it's 2 hp.

oldfarmer50 · October 2017

driver100 said:

fintail said:
There will be increased automation no matter minimum wage, as the automation is cheaper than any legit minimum wage, even the regressive one in the US. IMO, automation is a red herring when the pros and cons of minimum wages issues are discussed. This lag will just increase pressure for a guaranteed minimum income, as minimum wage already significantly lags what it was (adjusted) in the late 60s when the middle class was still strong and some lucky ones were getting started - and those basic CPI/inflation numbers don't adequately touch subjects like housing, education, and medical costs.

driver100 said:

Business owners say they will have to cut staff, some borderline businesses will go under, and places like grocery stores and McD's will do more automation.

Few people rely on a minimum wage job for a long term. It is hopefully a temporary job or a secondary job to go on to something that does pay a livable wage. Raising the minimum wage unrealistically will cause business to get by with fewer workers, and there will be fewer jobs.
We always paid our staff more than the minimum wage, except in the very early stages, when we had no idea if we would make it or not. It sounds great, pay people more........but, it isn't as simple as it sounds.
I do agree automation will happen no matter what, but, raising the minimum wage by 30% in two years like they are doing in Ontario Canada, is a real hardship for businesses. If you are doing it do it over 4 or 5 years, and then do it adjusted for inflation....not a big catch up.

I think there was a west coast tech company that waspraised in the media for offering everyone $75k a year as this was what the owner felt was "fair". I can't recall exactly what happened but the experiment was a failure.

Minimum in NY is 9.70 right now, slightly more if you work in a sector favored by the ruling party. When I depended on wages I could never support a family on that so I developed marketable skills that boosted my income. That seems to be a solution that is never considered by some.

I might, just might consider working for that rate in something I enjoy like driving cars but my dedication would be equal to the pay.

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