Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Michaell · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
Indeed it was. The later iterations were better (less worse). We also saw that engine in the stunning Eagle Premier as I recall.

Oh, wow. That I didn't remember.

What I remember about the Premier was that it didn't use a traditional turn signal stalk, but rather a rocker switch on the dashboard.

Why I remember such useless trivia like that is beyond me.

isellhondas · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:
The interior of the 262 is hilarious. Volvo went all-out with the wrinkly-leather look on those door panels. Getting that driver's seat upholstery more presentable might be a bit of a challenge. But it has a car phone from about 1985!

fintail said:
The 262C could be fun, so weird, and restoring one has to be difficult, has to be lots of unobtanium in one of those. Better to buy a nice survivor than repair a heap.

I am leery of the 122 with constantly shrinking price and fresh looking paint.

The S60 has new wiper blades, so the price might be OK.
The 262 is real turkey. Based on the 260 Sedan, it has the early, and much-dreaded PRV/V-6 engine. If you've ever worked on one, you won't do it a second time. If the 262C had been priced correctly (which it isn't), it would make for a nice small block V8 conversion.

Isn't that engine a Renault engine? I know some Peugeots used these and they were pure junk. A lot of Indy Shops refused to work on them. Our local Volvo store would wholesale the ones that got traded in even if they were pristine!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

God-awful engine, yes. A leaker, gutless, and very difficult access. Pricey parts, too.

Delorean originally wanted to use a rotary engine, then I think a Lotus turbo, (or was it Cologne V-6) in a mid-engine layout, and finally out of desperation, settled on that....that.....thing in the rear of the car.

On the bright side, they used the fuel-injected version of the PRV, which was somewhat better.

It was an odd duck, that engine--a V6 with a 90 degree head angle instead of the usual 60 degree on a V-6. I think eventually they re-engineered the crank pins.

qbrozen · November 2017

I'm surprised nobody commented on the p1800es.

stick, I really like that 122. Interior needs doing but the underside appears remarkably clean, and the IPD suspension bits give me some hope that maybe it was done right.

stickguy · November 2017

the 1800 must have been the first link. Was dead by the time I clicked on it.

yes, other than some questionable taste (seats for one) the 122 looks really clean. Still seems too cheap to me. but I would take it.

omarman · November 2017

Ocean blue 1973 Volvo P1800ES 2 door station wagon link was working when I clicked on it this morning. I didn't click on the link for the 80(!) pics, but on the seller's ad it looked good except for the "upgraded wheels."

From the U.S. Dept of Veterans Affairs blog:

"If you would like to carry on a conversation with a Veteran after thanking them, but aren’t familiar with what is okay to ask, you can try some of the following questions to get to know the Veteran better:

What did you do in the military?
How long did you serve?
What was your favorite moment in all your time in the service?
Did anyone else in your family serve?
Why did you choose the service branch that you did?"

stickguy · November 2017

pretty color. I always liked those. Goes back to when I was a kid and we had a Volvo. Used to go to the dealer in town with my Mom when it had to go in (so, often!) and remember sitting in those in the showroom.

fintail · November 2017

Funny, even when out of the country, cars.com keeps sending me interesting banner ads

tjc78 · November 2017

I kinda like that Benz. Not far from @stickguy and I. Maybe a field trip.. lol

fintail · November 2017

Money pit, but getting really hard to find a nice one. If only it was blue with a blue or cream/beige/brown interior.

stickguy · November 2017

would not touch that car unless there was an emotional attachment, and I was rich as Bill Gates.

fintail · November 2017

The bad one would be like an 01 S600 - these are probably like a Civic in comparison, you're just going to have electrical quirks, especially if the wiring harness hasn't been done.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

fintail said:
Funny, even when out of the country, cars.com keeps sending me interesting banner ads

Miles are good at least. If you could learn to do a number of things yourself on that car (stay away from the dealer at all costs), and could shop online for parts, and joined a Forum or two to get advice, and you were lucky, and if the electronics held together, and if gas wasn't too expensive where you live, you might offer $7500 for it.

Certainly a nice ride for the money!

Here in CALIF, it'll cost you .28 cents a mile to drive anywhere. Our new gas tax just kicked in Nov. 1.

Michaell · November 2017

fintail said:
Money pit, but getting really hard to find a nice one. If only it was blue with a blue or cream/beige/brown interior.

Is that 30K odometer reading because it spent a decent amount of time in the shop?

sda · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
God-awful engine, yes. A leaker, gutless, and very difficult access. Pricey parts, too.

Delorean originally wanted to use a rotary engine, then I think a Lotus turbo, (or was it Cologne V-6) in a mid-engine layout, and finally out of desperation, settled on that....that.....thing in the rear of the car.

On the bright side, they used the fuel-injected version of the PRV, which was somewhat better.

It was an odd duck, that engine--a V6 with a 90 degree head angle instead of the usual 60 degree on a V-6. I think eventually they re-engineered the crank pins.

Dad worked for a Texas based company that had a contract with Elf Oil. We lived near Paris for a couple of years. He originally had a '75 Renault 16 TL Automatic and then was given the choice to upgrade to a Puegeot 604 or Renault 30. Both shared the then newly introduced PRV V6. I think it was around 135hp, about double of the Renault 16. I was hoping dad would get the Puegeot but he ended up with the Renault 30. It was a very nice car at the time and much nicer than the 16. Soon after dad got the 30 it leaked transmission fluid and it idled poorly. It was in the shop constantly and got poor gas mileage, though that was not a problem as his company paid for gas. It had multiple carbs, a single carb with 1 barrel for economy and an additional 2 barrel for power. It was complex and the local Renault shop was perplexed on how to fine tune it, which never happened. Mom's '71 Audi 100LS that they bought used was hardly an example of trouble free motoring but was Toyota like compared to the Renault.

ab348 · November 2017

The 604 was a much better-looking car than the Renault. Almost stately.

That oddly French carburetion setup was shown when Wheeler Dealers did an Alpine 310 a few years ago. They ditched it in favor of a modified intake manifold adapted to accept a Holley 4-bbl.

fintail · November 2017

If you're even remotely pondering a V12 car and have the slightest care about mpg, you need to start over

My worry on this one is the wiring harness - with those miles, I suspect it hasn't been done. There's 2-3K. A lot of the other stuff doesn't scare me too much, my indy mechanic has one of these, and says once he addressed some of the common electrical fail points, it has been reliable. No word on mileage though.

It'd be no doubt irritating for me to have something this old and complex as a daily driver, but in cars of the era, they turn my head. This was my dream car in 1992.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Miles are good at least. If you could learn to do a number of things yourself on that car (stay away from the dealer at all costs), and could shop online for parts, and joined a Forum or two to get advice, and you were lucky, and if the electronics held together, and if gas wasn't too expensive where you live, you might offer $7500 for it.

Certainly a nice ride for the money!

Here in CALIF, it'll cost you .28 cents a mile to drive anywhere. Our new gas tax just kicked in Nov. 1.

fintail · November 2017

Probably had a long term, maybe original owner, with shall we say "to hell with you money", who just didn't need to drive it. These were 120K in 1992 dollars, and I suspect many sold to rich people on a whim with V12 curiosity, and weren't used as commuters. Then it got old, maybe fell out of style, and sat around for a bit. I suspect it got a lot of those miles in its first decade, and hasn't been used much since. Get a PPI for sure.

Michaell said:

Is that 30K odometer reading because it spent a decent amount of time in the shop?

fintail · November 2017

Nice cars, the Audi was styled like a MB, and I see the 604 as a French MB. Both of them are nearly extinct in North America these days, but I recall seeing them now and then into the late 80s anyway.

sda said:

Dad worked for a Texas based company that had a contract with Elf Oil. We lived near Paris for a couple of years. He originally had a '75 Renault 16 TL Automatic and then was given the choice to upgrade to a Puegeot 604 or Renault 30. Both shared the then newly introduced PRV V6. I think it was around 135hp, about double of the Renault 16. I was hoping dad would get the Puegeot but he ended up with the Renault 30. It was a very nice car at the time and much nicer than the 16. Soon after dad got the 30 it leaked transmission fluid and it idled poorly. It was in the shop constantly and got poor gas mileage, though that was not a problem as his company paid for gas. It had multiple carbs, a single carb with 1 barrel for economy and an additional 2 barrel for power. It was complex and the local Renault shop was perplexed on how to fine tune it, which never happened. Mom's '71 Audi 100LS that they bought used was hardly an example of trouble free motoring but was Toyota like compared to the Renault.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

I owned a 100LS--it was a really nice car to drive and was reasonably reliable but then the automatic lost reverse gear. That pretty much totaled the car. It was a real boss in the snow in Colorado though, with studded tires, and a good freeway cruiser, too. Very comfy and roomy car. As I recall, they had overheating issues, although I never did.

qbrozen · November 2017

This has to be the cleanest 170k mile 164 in history.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/alfa_romeo/164ls/1992108.html

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

Those are really fun cars to drive and kudos to any human being who could keep one running that long. One factor might be that it wasn't the dreaded automatic (good for 30K, maybe); another is that the owner or owners lived near a competent Alfa mechanic, which makes a world of difference.

You know, if that car ran as well as it says, and was near me, I'd probably buy it today. The engine noise is simply delicious.

texases · November 2017

That's a remarkable interior for a 22 year old car. But once again, a guy selling a car which has an engine to love can't spend 15 minutes cleaning it up and taking a good pic...

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

texases said:
That's a remarkable interior for a 22 year old car. But once again, a guy selling a car which has an engine to love can't spend 15 minutes cleaning it up and taking a good pic...

Alfa interiors are like Corvette interiors--you measure the wear factor in dog years. What this car really needs is some new carpeting.

qbrozen · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
Those are really fun cars to drive and kudos to any human being who could keep one running that long. One factor might be that it wasn't the dreaded automatic (good for 30K, maybe); another is that the owner or owners lived near a competent Alfa mechanic, which makes a world of difference.

You know, if that car ran as well as it says, and was near me, I'd probably buy it today. The engine noise is simply delicious.

I've driven one and always wanted one since. Query: does the 3.0 require valve shims like the 2.0? If so, I'm wondering when that was done last on this example.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

Yes I think it does. They are fussy to service--that's why you want access to a skilled Alfa guy. But they aren't brutally complex cars like that Mercedes 600 and they are way more fun. The "LS" is the hot rod version of the "L". You wouldn't believe how well it handles for an older FWD car.

fintail · November 2017

I'd still rather have a mint W140 V12. Heart of a Pagani.

texases · November 2017

fintail said:
I'd still rather have a mint W140 V12. Heart of a Pagani.

Isn't that kind of like saying the Avro Lancaster has the heart of a Spitfire?

fintail · November 2017

You can do a lot of fun exhaust tuning with that V12 though, it's a redeeming feature.

qbrozen · November 2017

A S-class and Alfa 164 are completely different classes of car made with completely different people in mind.

Since my commute is not done on an arrow-straight autobahn, I'd much rather have the Alfa.

omarman · November 2017

qbrozen said:
A S-class and Alfa 164 are completely different classes of car made with completely different people in mind.

And now for something completely different...

Name the car, country, and what kind of project is going on here?!

xwesx · November 2017

Probably more reliable that way... and just as fast!

stickguy · November 2017

a Lada in Poland?

omarman · November 2017

stickguy said:
a Lada in Poland?

Could be. Somebody else suggested it was a Lada in Russia. I don't know the origin but I'll go along with the xwesx explanation of this project being a reliability and speed upgrade!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

fintail said:
I'd still rather have a mint W140 V12. Heart of a Pagani.

But the body of Pavoratti.

fintail · November 2017

Well, the 164 isn't exactly Marilyn Monroe, itself

Mr_Shiftright said:

But the body of Pavoratti.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

Truuuueeee....but I wasn't extolling it for mere superficial physical beauty. You can call it "gawky" but not "porky".

fintail · November 2017

I look at the 140 as more brutal or severe. Big, hard angles, imposing.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

which 140 is that?

fintail · November 2017

Any of them. Slab sided, looks like a tank, classic Russian mafia staff car from back in the day.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

Oh the 90s S class.

fintail · November 2017

Yes, W140. I think the W220 that replaced it is a bit softer, and if you want iffy design, find the 00s era Maybach. And the W126 was timeless and elegant compared to them both. I think W126 is probably the pinnacle, mixing tech and design.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

Certainly a durable car for the most part.

andres3 · November 2017

so my '16 TTS car has become a project car due to its rarity.

Anyone know of a custom brake pad manufacturer (or at lease one that'll custom size one of their existing pad designs. 2X more expensive, or 5X?

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

I would think Brembo could fix you up.

qbrozen · November 2017

Try Centric, too. They were the only place I was able to get non-OEM for the wife's T&C. It took me calling them, but they hooked me up at a very reasonable price.

tjc78 · November 2017

Why did you need that? Were they fading or warping the rotors?

qbrozen · November 2017

me? yes, T&Cs of that generation had a habit of warping their rotors. Underengineered for such a heavy vehicle, I presume.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

If you're cooking weapons-grade Brembos, you are doing something wrong.

tjc78 · November 2017

qbrozen said:

me? yes, T&Cs of that generation had a habit of warping their rotors. Underengineered for such a heavy vehicle, I presume.

Not a surprise, our Enclave warped the rotors at around 25k miles too. Wife and I are probably a bit hard on it for its monster size.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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