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Comments
I just got back from eight days sightseeing in the Forester, fast highway runs interspersed with slow lazy days in the mountains. Average 25 mpg, good considering the rooftop carrier. As expensive as gas is here, I still paid an equivalent amount in highway tolls and another equal amount in a car ferry to cross into Hokkaido. God bless the American FREEway system.
Just reinforced all the good points of the Forester--loaded with stuff, comfortable cruising both at fast expressway speeds, or crawling up a dirt road as far away from civilization as we can get to let the dog out and roam free.
Even ended up sleeping in it two nights at rest stops to avoid getting stuck in the 30 mile traffic jams getting out of and then coming back into Tokyo.
Regards from Japan
James, the British 2.0 turbo is much the same hp as the US 2.5 normally aspirated--its the Japanese 2.0 turbo that you want! Graham, what does the Forester get in Australia, besides the envied dual range transmission?
Texsubaru, what is it about 626 owners becoming Forester fans? I think juice has or had a 626, and that was my previous car, too.
-Simon
My sweetheart's daughter has a 2 year old 626. With apologies to those out there who may own them, it's boring, "practical" to a fault, and a very cheap feeling car. The ride I had in the back seat demonstrated to me that the car's suspension was not up to the task of carrying 4 people on decent roads, and there wasn't enough sound insulation to let me hear the front seat conversation over the tire noise at anything over 35mph. Rumble rumble, thump thump.
My recent turbo rants made me forget one of the principal advantages of a turbo, namely altitude independence. Take a normally aspirated motor (including the human kind) up to 5,000 feet or more and it will be noticeably less powerful than at sea level; a turbo will simply boost manifold pressure to 8 or 12 or 15 psi and get on with it. If you live in mountainous territory this can be a major attribute. (Guess who may be moving to mountainous territory...)
Cheers,
WDB
I feel I should defend the 626. Perhaps you had the underpowered 4-banger, but the ES V6/5 speed is pretty nice. Pros include very quick acceleration, excellent value, and content (leather, 4 wheel discs w/ABS, moonroof, alloys, keyless were all standard).
On the other hand, it's geared high so it's loud, it understeers persistently, uses recommended premium fuel, and can't carry 1/4 of the cargo that fits in my Forester.
My wife drives it. Then again, she's asked me several times if we can swap vehicles (no thanks), so maybe I'm not defending the 626.
-juice
PS We're waiting for a turbo Legacy wagon to replace it, at least I am
I think that Mazda's cars are oriented towards sportier driving, and hence the natural progression from a Mazda to Subaru
I almost traded in the MX-6 towards the OB, but I'm happy I didn't
-juice
I was thinking of trying to bring my turbo Forester back to the US if I am transfered again, but it sounds like you will be getting your own versions by then. I would have had a lot of fun with unsuspecting Camaros/Mustangs/fill in the blank. And, as francophile points out, Donner Pass would be a hoot.
Dave
-ss-
I had a 1990 5-speed 2L 626 . . a fine car. Best possible price at the time (new, $11K). Drove it 120,000 in 8 years, no problems, light with wide stance so it handled well.
Then I wrecked it (jet lag, bad judgment, pulled out onto a highway and got t-boned . . . thank God everyone walked away).
Had to buy the first thing I could, which turned out to be a ridiculously over-powered 6-cyl, 4-liter Chevy s10 pickup (3 years old, very cheap to buy, sucks gas like I can't believe).
Not all that bad a choice actually, considering we have an acre of land and my wife is determined to landscape every square foot of it.
But now the truck is really dinged up and looking ratty from carrying rocks, manure, and God knows what else, and my wife (and my boss) both want me to drive something better for those days I have to transport clients.
I want: AWD for our occasional snowy days in central New Jersey, moderate power and handling, reasonable comfort for 4 or 5 people, good fuel economy, and moderate carrying capacity.
Realistically, is there anything to consider other than a Forester? (objective opinions here, please).
If you're going to be carrying around 4 or 5 passengers on a regular basis, you may want to look into a Legacy instead. The Forester is a great choice, but the rear seats will probably not seat 5 comfortably for long trips.
Legacys come in all trims from the economy-minded Brighton, the well equipped L, the sporty GT and the best selling Outback. The new 2000 models have been redesigned and look and drive great.
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah, I know the back seat is small from test drives. We've also got a Honda Odyssey minivan on order (talk about a vehicle that's hard to get) so I don't need the Forester for long trips with 5 people. Really, the longest I would need to drive 5 people is my in-laws to Sunday Mass or the office crowd to a lunch restaurant.
Mostly, I want a cheaper and more practical commute car than the truck, and some security for my wife in winter driving, and something that won't cause me to die young of terminal boredom (ignore the contradiction with "cheaper and more practical", above).
....but trying to be more objective, there are some car-based AWD alternatives on the market or coming soon that may suit you just as well, e.g. Passat 4motion, Audi quattro, Lexus RX300, Ford Excape/Mazda Tribute, Toyota Highlander and new Rav4. I suspect that some of these options will be too expensive, too fuel inefficient or maybe too new to trust.
You could try a post on the 'old' stationwagon or SUV boards where you might get a better mix of views. I think it is safe to say we here are all converts (do any of the Sube regulars still bother with the old boards - I've kind of stopped looking?)
JP
If the subwoofer is self-powered, or if you increase the power of the head-amp, that's another story. Then, theoretically, the subwoofer will take the bass energy and allow the other speakers to distribute the higher frequencies more cleanly.
So, IMO, a subwoofer without extra power will probably degrade the overall sound accuracy, whereas a subwoofer with self-power or with an increase in your head-amp power will enhance it.
If you go the powered subwoofer route, make sure the power level can be adjusted and matched properly to your main unit, and that the frequency responses of the various speakers overlap smoothly.
Hope this helps,
Randy
Dave: if you're motivated, you can get short throw shifter kit from several places. Here's one for $240:
http://www.autocaresubaru.com/STI.html
I'd give my wife's 626 a small edge in shift feel, but the clutch is so much heavier that I prefer the Forester overall (and yes my commute includes some bumper-to-bumper stuff). It the left knee that gets tired in the 626.
David: because of the farm and your budget, I'd stick with either the base Outback or the Forester L. Both have over 7" of clearance and are good values.
JP made some good suggestions, but only the Escape and RAV4 would fall in this price range, and of those two only the RAV4 should be as reliable as the Soob. Plus, Toyota nickel-and-dimes you for options, like a rear bumper!
-juice
As far as the manual transmission, I can't shift smoothly no matter how hard I try. My last car was an automatic but I had manuals before. It has become a challenge to see how smoothly I can shift everytime I change gears. I hope it wears in. At first I thought it was just me. I'm glad to hear it's not.
Thanks, JP
Yes: then get an alarm instead of just keyless, IMO. keyless is generally $150-200 installed, and for another $50 to $75 you could get a decent alarm.
No: you'll have to investigate further to find out if the factory p/l can be added and how much it will cost, or if aftermarket ones will work (est. $40-75 per door).
Hope this helps,
-Colin
-Brett
JP: All Foresters have power locks, so I imagine you just buy the unit and program it yourself. I don't think it's much work at all.
-juice
We had (well documented in previous posts) gearbox/clutch problems in our 98 GT that was eventually resolved by switching to the Forester. I have not heard of many complaints about the Forester's gearbox, but aren't they made on the same line and shipped assembled to Indiana to be dropped into the Legacy/OB engine bay? The only minor issue I have with the Forester is a slight reluctance to engage reverse, but I think this is freeing up with time. Otherwise it is pretty slick - as smooth as a new 5-speed should be. This is a really critical area as people buy standards because they enjoy changing the gears (!!!)
I'm trusting you juice and I'm going to fit the keyless kit myself because I haven't the time to wait around for a slot in the dealer's workshop (might save a few dollars on installation).
JP
JP, the 00 GT has is a little tough to engage in reverse too. I found that pushing the clutch WAY in (like up to the headlights if you know what I mean) helps, as well as putting it in 4th, then reverse. Don't know if reverse has synchro gears on it. Why 4th instead of 5th? Don't know, just felt natural. I'll try 5th sometime.
Some RS guys on i Club say replacing the OEM fluid w/Redline synthetic transmission fluid (I'm sure there are others) helps too. Search Google for: Redline transmission fluid and you'll find numerous opinions by non-Subaru enthusiasts.
..Mike
..Mike
My suggestion with the tranny is to use a lighter touch. Seriously, if you use less force it actually engages more easily. This is only the case with 1st and reverse.
-juice
-Colin
the reverse gear on the forester is fine, I guess I'm pretty fussy...
I have finally got a job as of next Monday, so my posting length/frequency may decline if I want to keep it. You guys have helped keep me sane over the last few months. Thanks.
JP
juice, I'll be your co-pilot. Molson Canadian from the source isn't the parc (hint: reverse it) that we get south of the border. Or at least that's what I remember from a trip to Cold Lake in the 80's.
So JP, If I may so inquire, what'll you be doing? No prob if it's none of my business. Please lurk if that's all the time you've got. We've enjoyed your contributions, so post at least once a month so we know you're still there.
..Mike
..Mike
JP: congrats, man. I know it's stressful to start a new job, so good luck. Keep in touch if you can, hopefully you won't be overworked!
-juice
Hey Mike, thanks for thinking of me. when is the next Riot Squad Autocross? I might be able to make one. Duh, I suppose I should a) look at their site, and b) keep this stuff on the Events board....
JP
..Mike
..Mike
First thing I would do is buy some waterfront property, probably on the Chesapeake Bay, and build a HUGE garage, with an attached house.
Next order of the day is to fill that HUGE garage.
Certainly several Soobs are in the cards: An Outback H-6 VDC, a Forester S/Premium, an upcoming Impreza WRX wagon, an upcoming ST-X, and finally a Legacy GT.
Beyond that, my other vehicular toys would include:
A Honda S2000, an Acura NSX, a Mercedes SLK 320, a Mercedes ML 430, a BMW X5, an Audi A6 4.2, an Audi S4, a (new upcoming) Volvo V70 Cross Country, a Ford F-350 SRW Crew Cab, a Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, an upcoming Chevy Avalanche, a Honda ST1100 motorcycle, a Honda Rancher ATV, and finally... A Mercedes Unimog!
The wife and kids can get what they want too. I'm telling ya', it's going to be one HUGE garage!
Oh yeah, since I'm going to be on the water, I'll need a few boats and jet skis too. I may have to add an extra (water) wing to that HUGE garage.
Bob
How could I have forgotten those two!?!?
Bob
Denice
I think for me, for main, reliable, and kind of fun transportation, the H-6 VDC and the Forester S/Premium would be in the running (with the proviso that a Turbo would automatically take pride of place!)
And for toys?
'64 Jaguar XKE (I almost bought one of these back in '72 for $1200 CDN -- unfortunately I was overly pragmatic and was worried about the upkeep expenses, and ended up with a Beetle: what a dweeb!)
'73 Norton 850 Commando (best motorcycle I've ever owned; wish I had kept it)
And either a Porsche Boxster or an Audi TT Quattro for more reliable summer fun (given that the Jag and the Norton will be needing repairs half the time).
And a '66 VW Microbus, with a rainbow sticker and burning incense, to remind me of vision quests to Death Valley...
Cheers.
Randy
Sounds like my kind of Garage.
Speaking of Garages, a few of my neighbors have
their garage decked out from floor to the ceiling.
The floors shine to the max. And the lighting
is well thought out. All kinds decals and cabinets with cubies for what not. Tv and Refig.
Ceiling Fans and heaters for those cold days.
I admire folks with decor garages.
Soon I'll reclaim mine.
Later Ya'll
Of course, I love driving a brand new vehicle. But I won't really be able to say my new Sube is as great a vehicle until I get to over 200,000 miles trouble-free.
Thank your for the replies about any other options. Some of these I knew about, and rejected for pretty much the reasons given.
I might consider the Toyota Highlander, but I don't want to pay 30-35K MSRP (probably plus a premium, too), and I don't think I want to wait 6 - 9 months for it to come out. If I did go that route, I would pretty much be gambling on Toyota's overall reputation for quality holding up in a new model. That used to be a safe gamble, but if you read the complaints about the Sienna, it doesn't look so safe.
The other options are just out of line price-wise. We test-drove the Lexus R300, and there's nothing not to like about it . . . except that for their price, I can buy a Forester Premium S and still have enough left over for a year or two of college for my kids. I liked it, but not THAT much.
Anyway, I think I'm moving over to the "Subaru dealerships" board, and start negotiating for price.
For all those glorious garage descriptions . . . guys, when I win the lottery, that's the garage that my pool-cleaning staff will have.
Anyway, I figured out why they made it so high in the first place. The top of the knob is the same height as the arm rest. If the top of the knob was lower, when you shifted from 1st to 2nd, and 3rd to 4th, your elbow would tend to bump into the front of the armrest. So I'll leave it the way it is at least for now. I'm getting more used to it each day anyway. Maybe I'll just keep my eyes open for a fatter knob to put on the end of it. At least it shifts better than my 84 Turismo did :^#)
Dave
Okay, what is the most anyone here has on their Forester? How many miles per year are you averaging?
In terms of oil changes, I tried to stay with every 3000 miles, but since I did so much mileage, that came up awfully quickly, and sometimes I didn't get to change it until more like about 4000 miles. I was pretty good about changing the oil. But as the car got older, it started to burn a little oil, and I was TERRIBLE at checking to be sure it had enough oil. There were a number of times that I had to add 3 quarts at once. Somehow, my great little Mazda managed to hang in there happily, even through that abuse.
On my Outback, I'm currently planning to change the oil about every 3500 to 4000 miles, which is still much more often than Subaru says it needs. What do people think about how often to change the oil?
The manufacturers usually tell you to change it every 6000 miles(Subaru 7500), unless you drive it under severe conditions in which case it's usually every 3000 miles(Subaru 3750.3 or some weird number!). Of course the lube places say everyone should change it every 3000 miles, more money for them that way. So...
I change the oil and oil filter in my vehicles every 4000 miles. I'm almost never off by more than 500 miles. I've done this with my last several rides, and never have had any engine troubles. I put about 120k on my Shadow, and 130k on the Voyager before I sold them.
I also use Slick 50. Any comments on that? I think it helps. I've already bought some to put in my Legacy at 4000 miles.
Dave
In other words, most people's normal everyday driving counts as "severe". Perhaps it would be better if the manufacturers said things like "under normal conditions, change the oil every 3 months or 3000 miles; extend it to 6000 (7500, whatever) only if you drive under ideal conditions."
Chris
The more sensible bits of me suggest:
Range Rover Series I V8 2 door Manual (Prettiest 4wd car design ever)
Ferrari Dino 246 in red
Mazda 1800 (about 1968 model, possibly Pinin Farina)
VW Golf GTi 1990 2 door in red (why didn't I buy out the lease? I must have been nuts)
Mercedes Sports (late 60's pagoda roof model)
Steyr Daimler Puch Haflinger (incredible tiny 4wd with extraordinary ability. Seriously possible to lift it out of trouble. I am not kidding! Four strong men could lift it but it could climb vertically if anyone could figure out how to make tyres that could stick that well)http://4wd.sofcom.com/Steyr/Haflinger.html
Pinzgauer (same as above but large, 4wd and 6wd and incredibly able)http://www.4wdonline.com/Steyr/Pinzgauer.html
Subaru Outback current model (have to be practical somewhere)
Something innocuous to drive to the bank without attracting attention.
For the boat, I guess I would like something like a classic wooden Chris Craft and a really nice wooden sloop. Nothing in plastic. I will pass on the motorbike.
How about a plane to match the Outback. A Republican Sea-Bee would do nicely, air and water and sort of land. Looks silly but practical.
And the garage. If it's anything like mine there is no hope of the place being tidy so why worry. Garages are meant to hold junk, not be monuments to the anally retentive.
Cheers
Graham
I think the reason that 3,000 miles is in our national psyche is that it used to be every 3,000 miles in the 50's and now that it isn't anymore somehow the auto-lube places don't feel that it is in their best interests to advise people to come only half the time that they used to.
I have a quick all time classic Oil change story from my Dad. When I was growing up we had a '63 Plymouth. My Dad didn't believe in maintenance back then and only changed the oil once at 40,000 miles! Well by the time I started to drive I got to borrow that car some (It had over 100,000 miles). One day the Oil Pressure light came on. Naturally I told my Dad. He told me that the light was broken and to ignore it. It got so annoying that I then put a piece of tape over the light. About a year later (another 20,000 or so miles) the engine siezed up. ((Motto eventually it does catch up with you.. but the car did have close to 140,000 miles with one oil change and low oil pressure for over a year)
My wife drives a '95 Impreza which now has 55,000 miles. We have had nothing break. (We have done Oil + Filter and a Subaru 30k maintenance). I mean nothing, no knobs broke, no "funny noises that cost $10 to fix", absolutely nothing. I have ownen a number of cars and this seems unusual to me (I have a '97 Legacy which I can't say the same... this car is in the nothing of importance category I replaced a spark plug wire because of a check engine light).
Anyway what is the record for cars with absolutely nothing wrong with them.. not even a piece of trim that you had to pop back on....
Frank