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Comments
-mike
-juice
It'll also have a longer wheelbase. I expect the rear LSD will become available in more models, and maybe other features, like optional heated seats and bigger standard tires.
Just guessing, though.
But the turbos will be the real temptation.
I'm also figuring March.
-juice
You might also try a buying/leasing service; click on my profile for details on CarBargains (takes about a week to get a quote; I used them for buying). If you've "gotta have it now"
As Gus said, Patti isn't the CEO; she helps when she can. Sometimes she can help, sometimes she can't. She always gives it her best. She's very dedicated to the customers and she's very overworked. Edmunds.com is an adjunct to her day job at SoA.
The Internet is a very big place for just one Patti.
Cheers,
..Mike
..Mike
Plus, the Edmunds site shows the APR financing of 4.9%, 6.9% and 7.9% do apply to the VDC and in Colorado. It does not say whether delivery is required by the 01/02/01 cutoff though.
To me, it just seems like dealers often shoot themselves in the foot more than they don't.
Leif
I'm not interested in being "first on the block". If that were the case, I'd have ordered w/o driving one, I'd be willing to pay a lot more and / or would take one of the several units in the area that would work. We were underwhelmed with the responsiveness and build quality of the 2kOBLtd, so were waiting for the VDC (don't like the Bean googaw, ski ~20 days/year so would like the additional stability/traction, enjoy _good_ music reproduction, etc.) or save for an Audi (reliability???, room??). The VDC, for the most part, met or exceeded our expectations. However, we'll keep our cash and our 10+yr, 140+kmi vehicles rather than feel like we've been fleeced.
Simmered down ;-)
Theo
My friend was recently shopping for a Legacy GT Ltd. She was getting a lot of b.s. from a dealer in Brooklyn. She also ran into problems with the financing quotes. "If we have to order it and you don't receive it until Jan. You don't get the financing deal". She raised a little sand with the Sales Manager, got her deposit back and bought the GT from another dealer.
Glad you've simmered down. :-)
Dennis
Maybe someone here can recommend another dealer in CO near you. Doesn't John Elway own one?
I say get a price quote from www.fitzautomall.com and ask a different dealer to match it. They're in MD - so what? Tell them you're willing to buy and drive it back! There are also services that negotiate for you, are you a Costco or Credit Union member?
Also go to a credit union and get a pamphlet on car loan rates, and ask them to match that, too. If they know you have alternatives, they should work with you. 7 to 8% sounds fair.
The web is a powerful tool. Use it to your advantage to shop around for both VDC price and finance rates. Good luck.
-juice
In terms of the dealer bumping the price up...that is a bummer. We haven't begun to negotiate yet but I am hoping to get either car around $500-700 over invoice. I have checked prices on Edmunds (TMV), Greenlight.com, carsdirect.com and driveoff.com to get a good average and it seems I should be able to get this price without a problem. Not looking forward to the negotiation though!
Thanks to everyone for the feedback from prior posts, it has been invaluable.
Wendy
Wendy: try bidding via e-mail. You want $500 over with no processing or advertising fees, freight included. No baloney.
Worth a shot!
-juice
As Ash and I said (IIRC) in Future Models, a bigger RS4.. now you're talkin'. Man I wish Subaru would bring over the GT-B (turbocharged Legacy platform on a wagon body). That would be schweet.
Anyway, I hope you can find a good dealer or wait for long enough for a VDC. Please contribute often!
..Mike
..Mike
Mike(smi): The allroad is based on the A6, repairing the air suspension could be extra $$$. I don't mind the styling, tend toward Euro anyway. The 2002 A4 is supposed to be larger than the 2001, but like you, I think there's probably more value in the soobie (unless you want to put a price on the marquee).
Theo
Thanks, mtnshopper
Other people have reported good results with this same dealer. Aguirreroy (Bob Roy) reported that King in Loveland ordered him a Forester for invoice and was the quickest to respond to his bidding request from area dealers. Some factors involved that changed the dealers response may have been the model requested. Since then, the market has changed and there is a _lot_ more inventory on all of the area dealers lots. I.e., there are now 38 VDC's in stock within 100 miles!
Ordering from a Wyoming or Maryland ( or KS or NM?) dealership and having a "Courtesy Delivery" to Heuberger might be worthwhile. Dellenbach in Ft. Collins said they would do a courtesy delivery for $250. That should give you some idea. Also, most (all?) Colorado dealerships charge a $225 advertising fee that is built into their invoice. WY dealers, for example, have a much lower adv. fee.
FWIW,
Theo
Happy Shopping, Becky
If it does turn out to be something I cannot get involved in, I'll let you know up front but I would hate to have you upset about something because I did not catch it.
Thanks and Happy New Year!
Patti
It sounds like you got the kind of crappy sales treatment that keeps people away from "normal" car dealers and sends them scrambling to the Saturn showroom where there is no hard-sell nonsense. Sorry to hear about it. However, you did the right thing by going in with information in hand. I agree with you that Edmunds is a fantastic resource. It also has calculators for figuring out the value of your used car, so you can pretty much go into a dealer and say, "here's how much I'm going to give you". That's what I do and the salesmen stop dorking around when I do that. They know the gig is up.
Anyway, you bought a fine vehicle. Unlike most SUV's, the Forester has a very low center of gravity due to its horizontally opposed "boxer" engine and compact AWD drivetrain. Your new Forester will drive and ride like a car, not a truck. The AWD will be handy under all conditions too, not just ice and snow (which you won't see much of in San Antonio!). The AWD in Subarus improves handling and control on dry, wet, dusty, muddy, and any other road surface. You name it, Subaru's AWD deals with it. If there is any downside compared to some other SUV's it is that the Forester will not go as far offroad due to its longish front and rear overhangs. We're talking serious offroading though, and the fact is that most SUV's will never go there anyway. Your Forester is based on the same chassis that has won 3 World Rally Championships, so if it looks anywhere near like a road, you've got a great vehicle for it!
Enjoy your new vehicle, and I hope to see you in the Subaru forums!
Happy New Year,
-wdb
-mike
Isuzu Forum Spokesman
Edmunds Isuzu Forum
IA Trooper Homepage
Seems like there was a discussion a couple of months ago about ordering a car with a hitch on it, but the new server software won't let me retrieve the whole discussion topic and won't let me search for the specific post where a keyword is located. Thus I can't find the discussion on hitches. So here's my question:
Is the OEM hitch Port- or Dealer-installed? The Subie web site, Edmunds, Carpoint, Intellichoice, ... say it's Port-installed. I'm real close to ordering a VDC, but one of the most likely dealers is claiming it's dealer installed and wants $400 for it!!!!! Sticker is $295 for it.
Seems like I remember someone having some trouble order a hitch, but wasn't sure what the resolution was. Anyone know? Was there a recall? has it all been clarified?
Thanks in advance,
Theo
So to answer, yes, it's a Port Option, and they shouldn't charge you much more than the $295 it's listed at.
-mike
Thanks,
Theo
Patti
Just to bring you up to date, when we ordered our 2001 OB Ltd a few months back, we were told that port-installed hitches were "temporarily" unavailable, apparently due to a quality control problem from the part vendor. The dealer offered the option of ordering an after market hitch for us and installing it, but this isn't something they normally do, and the price was higher than the $295 you've seen quoted for the port-installed hitch. The folks at SOA suggested that the dealer should be willing to install a hitch for the same price as the port-installed option, but I couldn't get the dealer to see it that way, so I ordered the car without the hitch.
Subsequently, I ordered and installed a Hidden Hitch (from 1-800-HITCH-IT). The price was considerably less than the Subaru hitch (about $150 comes to mind, including the wiring), they pay the postage, and the whole package was at the house about 3 days after I called. The toughest part of installation was unbolting a few parts from the underside that the hitch needs to go "underneath", but the whole operation only took about 2 hours for me and a friend once we got going. The hitch bolts right on to the body, and you need a good torque wrench to tighten the bolts (they needed lots more tightening to get to spec than I would have given them "by feel").
The only other "trick" is that no one seemed to know where the electrical wiring harness for the trailer lighting was located in the vehicle. Turns out, it's on the passenger side accessible under the cargo space flooring. The Hidden Hitch documentation had it located behind the driver's side tail light access port.
One other nice thing about the Hidden Hitch is that... it's really quite hidden when not in use!
Hope this helps.
--Jay
Thanks for your responses!!!
A few months ago on the Subaru web site on the News page, there was a blurb about Subaru making a retrofit available to disable the passenger air bag. Is that now standard in the MY2001 vehicles, is the retrofit still being offered, or did they give up on that concept altogether?
Thanks in advance,
Theo
The Fitzgerald site lists all their current inventory, along with options, vin #, and their rock-bottom prices.
I can't speak to the Florida dealer, as to the buying experience, but our experience with the Rockville store was excellent.
http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/
Bob
There are some places that will refuse to install them due to liability concerns. We cannot require that a dealer put them in. The NHTSA site does have a list of places that will do installations.
If you need more info., give me a call and I'll see if I can isolate some sites where they are available. Of course, we cannot "okay" these devices because we haven't tested them out on our cars, but make sure that the company you select offers their own warranty/guarantee on it.
Hope your shopping is going well!
Cheers,
-wdb
-mike
The air bag switch demand info leads to another question: With the new second-generation air bags now in the MY 2001 OB's can a (60+lb, 4'4") child be seated safely in the front passenger seat w/o a switch? If so, then a switch would be pointless for us. The only reason we'd want it is for taking a car full (4) of kids when our son's class has a field trip.
Thanks again all (especially Patti!),
Theo
Thanks again Patti!
Theo
I am getting it from Schmidt Imports in Sterling, CO. They were easily the best price and Jack was very nice and and accommodating. They have not ordered a VDC before, so did not know much about it. But that is OK - I have all of you for education and information!!! BTW, John Elway West would not even talk for less than MSRP. Very abrupt: "They are selling for MSRP only."
Mtnshopper: if you want the details of my experience, drop me a line. Subaru is offering 3.9% for 24 months right now which is quite attractive, but it ends Feb. 28.
Thank you, Patti, for all of the info and encouragement!!!!
I'll post more later,
Theo
Dennis
I ordered a VDC back in Sept. from a dealer in S. PA. The options I picked were the mirror, the alarm and the air filtration (same as the Bean). Also the spoiler, gate bar, trailer hitch and diff. protector.
I was told the car would be in around Thanksgiving. The holidays came and went and no news, not even a phone call. I was getting ready to go through the hassle of comparison shopping the other dealers in the area. After reading some of the posts here I decided to contact the salesman (who is the owner of the dealership).
He said "I didn't forget about you." He said he has yet to get a VDC on his lot and that getting a VDC from the factory with options on it was like pulling teeth. He mentioned the trailer hitch in particular. I had seen only one VDC on the lot closest to us. I drove by again last night and it was gone. I know they are hard to get.
So, he said he would get the VDC in as soon as possible and put the options I chose on at the dealership. He said it would be there in another two to four weeks, five weeks tops, which would put my wait around 16 weeks or more. I'm still not sure if I should just wait or start the whole comparison shop thing again for new vehicle plus trade-in. I guess then I'll have to wait another 6 to 8 instead of 4 to 5 plus pay more money. This pisses me off!
Tom S.
You should have had your VDC early last November. Your "sold order" (w/deposit) should have taken precedence and been delivered to you before any of the area dealers got any in stock for their inventory. I believe that Subaru has a policy of giving priority to "Sold orders" over inventory orders. 6-8 weeks is the standard quote. One wrinkle is that in October there was a ship hold on hitches. That has since been cleared up and they are starting to move (look back about 10 posts at Patti's post). Other than the gate bar, mine has all of the options you mentioned. Before ordering, my dealer checked with the regional Soob rep that he could order it all. "you may have to install the cargo net and hitch" was the only thing the rep told him. Based on Patti's info, only the cargo net (tough ;-) will be installed by the dealer.
Here in Colorado, we had (at last check) about 38 VDCs in stock at dealerships w/in 100 miles of where I live. Either your dealer is uninformed (lazy) or he's pulling your leg. If you left a check with him, I'd go get it and take your business somewhere else. BTW, through comparison (or bid) shopping, you should be able to pay much less than MSRP for an order. Clear back in Sep. they should have given you a huge break to order sight-unseen. It costs extremely little for them to execute that kind of sale and they get the "earn & turn" credit for it, to say nothing of holdback. There seems to be a big resistance among Soob dealers to order w/hitch. They seem to be afraid of having to sell one off their lot if the buyer backs out of the order.
My $.02+,
Theo
Jay's post above tells you the importance of a good torque wrench. I also installed a hitch, and found the bolts were way, way overtightened to begin with.
So my experience was the opposite of his, i.e. I used far less strength than I thought was required to torque the bolts for the hitch properly.
Bottom line: get a good torque wrench with a long handle.
-juice
reliability; excellent customer satisfaction; all-wheel drive from most experienced manufacturer, along with a viscous limited slip rear differential; highest HP & torque 4-cylinder engine; best-of-class crash rating; best-rated handling and ride; larger cargo space; and 60 month/60,000 mile major components warranty. Key features that were also important to us but pretty much comparable to its competition were the 4-wheel ABS & disc brakes, side impact door beams, side airbags (except the RAV-4), moonroof (except for the CR-V, which doesn't offer one and can't have one installed -- Honda says they have to remove a roof beam, which would negatively affect the structure of the car body) and leather interior, gas mileage, price, heated seats, ability to use regular gas, a full-size spare, heated power mirrors, loaner cars for overnight service while under warranty and door-to-door shuttle service thereafter . Although I have to admit even the little things -- like the de-icing front wiper, integrated window antenna, multiple storage compartments, a rubber cargo area tray, subfloor storage, a dimming rear view mirro with electronic compass, and the easiest-to-open rear door (especially when compared to the CR-V) -- were advantages over the competition as well. I never would have bought the Ford Escape or Mazda Tribute -- neither companies have good reliability records overall, and these products are in their first year of production. The President of Mazda happens to be an old friend of mine, so I knew if I wanted the Tribute I could get a great deal. It
wouldn't have been worth it.
I'll also tell you we considered a few wagons -- with the Subaru Outback and Volkswagen Passat coming out on top. Here, my wife and I simply preferred the SUV-style over the Outback wagon. And while the Passat wagon is a highly-rated vehicle, to get what we got with the Forester would have meant spending an additional $4,000 to get all-wheel drive, forcing us into the 6-cylinder model with much poorer gas mileage and a requirement to use much more expensive premium gas. All in all, I can't get over the outstanding combination the Subaru Forester offers in terms of reliability, safety, features and value.
With all this, I still had just a bit of hesitation before making the final buying decision because neither my wife or I had ever owned a Subaru. This is where Al Rowe, our salesman, came in. His professionalism, knowledge and straightforwardness in dealing with both of us made the difference. In sales myself -- 20 years with IBM as a salesman, sales manager and now sales executive -- I've learned a thing or two about salesmanship and the right way to earn a customer's business. Al Rowe represented Subaru very well. We expect this to be just the start of a long-term, positive relationship with Subaru of Morristown, New Jersey as we need to service our Forester along the way -- and look for our next car!
Frank P.
Bob