By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
-Colin
They didn't bring the Forester cut-out to the local auto show, so thanks for sharing them. That looks like a 2000 model, right?
-juice
Otherwise, the Escape and others are going to have a field day, at Subaru's expense.
Bob
One thing to note is that the Kia is not only much cheaper, but also sells 2WD versions.
Forester ought to get a longer wheelbase in 2003, as the new Impreza will now, and hopefully new engine options even before then.
One thing Subaru should be proud of is that they started the entire hybrid trend with the 95 Outback. It may not have been the first, but it did start the trend, and everyone else followed. Here is the first, by the way:
http://thejuiceman.homepage.com/more.html
-juice
I can tell you it's a BIG issue in my household. We need to replace my wife's old '91 Explorer. I've obviously been pushing for a Soob. My wife likes the Forester... except for the rear legroom, and is luke-warm about the Outback. I showed her a flyier on the new Toyota Highlander, and when she found out it was about the size of the RX300, she was about ready to sign on the dotted line. Then she found out it was a year away from being here.
At the NY Auto Show I was watching a number of people getting in and out of the Forester on display. A lot (I mean a lot) seemed to feel it was too tight. You could just tell by their body language. I even spoke to one guy who felt that way.
It's like buying clothes: no matter how much you may like the pants, if they're too tight, you buy something larger.
Bob
Most people like the lighter weight and spritely handling of the Forester and wouldn't want it to pork out like the new Legacy wagons.
-Colin
Bob -- I was suprised to see that KIA outsold the Forester by a small amount in 99. However, if you think about how Subaru focuses it's target markets, it may not be all that strange after all. I think those of us who live in those "target" markets get used to seeing quite a few Foresters on the road.
Yes, it would be nice if there were more legroom in the back, but I think it would trade off some the handling we've grown to love in our Foresters. I think Subaru is afraid that a larger Forester would cannibalize Outback sales. Who knows? Maybe in future models, well see a slight increase in wheelbase.
FYI, the wheels that they use not only custom made and have a stiffer sidewall, but it also has a "moose" inside that allows them to continue driving the vehicle even if the tire is completely flat (albeit at a lower speed). Emergency vehicles (Ambulances, etc.) also utilise similar technology. But, the rally drivers have to be careful when they're driving using only the moose because if they go too fast and for too long, the moose will not be able to take the heat buildup and it will explode. Not very fun to be moving along at 120 km/hr when the wheel explodes...
Yes, I believe that the Forester cut-out was a 2000 model. It had the Phase II engine, BTW.
Drew
You have to trade these things off. More legroom is great, but it comes at the expense of reduced off-pavement ability.
Chris
I don't think adding 3" or so, to the wheelbase, would upset the nimble handling of the Forester.
Bob
Bob
For 2003, another 2" of wheelbase and rear legroom may be worth the tradeoff, though what I'd really like to see is an Outback-based Forester Plus, with the H6 and 3 rows of seats, the third one a flip-and-fold type like the MPV.
Why? Because the Forester already seats 5. Stretching it won't add to its capacity, just perceived comfort. I want to be able to carry more people, so give me a 3rd row of seats, and then I'll be more willing to accept the higher weight, longer wheelbase, and loss in maneuverability.
-juice
PS Oh, and price it around $25-28k MSRP.
I wonder when they're going to upgrade the facility in Indiana or build a new plant here in the US to make all the Foresters and Imprezas domestically? For now I'm enjoying the higher build quality, but I would sure like lower prices.
-Colin
It's funny you mention that. The local Soob dealers around here have an abundance of US-made Outbacks. However, they have very few Foresters or Imprezas in stock, all of which come from Japan.
Bob
Let's put that GM capital infusion to work!
-juice
PS Uh, just keep their designers as far as possible, please!
-Colin
Thanks in advance.
Pat
Bob
Prices ought to hold steady or go up only slightly, since they went up for 2000. I'd guess $100-$300 or so.
-juice
Oh, and if anyone's wondering, the other flaw that bugged me was that the Legacy has only a tiny "pass-through" port to the trunk, while all its competitors (and, geez, even most of the Impreza's smaller sedan rivals, for that matter) have vastly more useful split folding rear seats.
Cheers,
WDB
Frank
Well, here's some consolation, my E320 also doesn't have a fold rear seat :=)
Drew
Also, the solution to the passthrough is...drum roll please...the WAGON! You double the utility for virtually nothing in cost.
I know, I know, Americans hate that body style. Europeans and South Americans love 'em.
-juice
Bob
Another indication related to building a facility to produce the H6 engine. Until this is accomplished (assuming my source is correct) all production will be for the automatic trans which accounts for more than 85-90 percent of sales.
Perhaps 2001 will see a GT wagon with a 5 speed H6. One can wish!
Don
Wow, the H6 in a Legacy Brighton and L? That would put it under $20k, and you'd have a real sleeper.
Makes sense, since the Imprezza should have the 2.5l as the base engine, and the Legacy ought to stand out from it.
-juice
Bob
Your comment regarding "bean counters" and the lack of 5 speed availabilty with the H6 makes sense. If the relatively small percentage of Subarus sold with 5 speeds AND the desire to get the H6 on the market, the additional profit which comes to SOA and local dealerships via automatic transmissions can't be overlooked! This may be somewhat cynical but probably has much truth to it.
If I can find out more details from my sources, I'll let you know.
Don
-Colin
Frank made a good point, though. The fleet is supposed to average 27.5 mpg, right? 20.7 for trucks, but that doesn't apply here. I wonder exactly how CAFE calculates average MPG, do they use highway numbers?
For example, I'd guess we as a group average roughly 22-25 mpg, not 27.5. Throw in the H6 and that would drop very slightly (it's a weighted average).
Look at trucks, too! XTerras get 16mpg. Edmunds' long-termer got 12 mpg on one tank! How does Nissan meet the 20.7mpg CAFE standard?
The feds must be smoking something.
-juice
I can't recall the last time I saw a Brighton -- anywhere. I know it's listed in the brochure, but I have not seen one on a dealer's lot in over a year.
Keeping the Legacy "L" runs counter to going up market, but I suppose there are still a few (and I mean a few) people who buy them. Every dealer I've been to might have one (or two) sitting on the lot (as opposed to well over a dozen or so Outbacks, and four or five GTs).
The only "L" model that sells well is the Forester "L" -- and it sells very well. I think a lot of people who might originally be interested in a Legacy "L" model end up in a Forester "L", as a purchase. They both appeal to a similar type of buyer. However, the Forester has a bit more "style" appeal.
Bob
You're right though, there's one Brigthon, one L, two GT's, and about three dozen Outbacks. Foresters seem to be the opposite. One Premium (being sold as I get there), one S model, and a dozen Ls.
I think there's room (and the buyers) for Subaru to move upmarket but keep their "inexpensive and built to stay that way" core.
-juice
final designs is a result group effort.
Dan Ellis former manager of Subaru California
Design Studio according to Drive provided the
inspiration for the 2000 MY Outback.And with
FHI,Pininfarina and Ital Design along a few
other Italian Designers a new style appears.
I'll say Subaru is moving up market a bit.
As to "Inexpensive and built to stay that way
I'm somewhat concerned for there are now higher
Technology than ever built-in to these cars.
Unlike 10 years ago when there was'nt a whole lot
that could go wrong with a Subie. Yet I think
the benefits of the new Technology is worth
every cent. I just hope Subaru keep things
under control as to affordability.
Later Ya'll
As for what is sitting in dealer stock, could it be that those are the ones that are left after the others sell? Also, given the fact that the mechanicals are essentially identical, if I were going to buy a Legacy sedan with the express intention of hopping it up I'd buy the L. If I'm going to pull off the springs/shocks/brakes/wheels/tires and replace them, why start with the more expensive pieces.
Cheers,
WDB
By the way, my understanding is that Subaru no longer offers the "postal" model. So what you may be referring to are older model Legacys. I'd be curious as to what the product mix of new Legacys are at the more rural dealerships. While they may not reflect the tastes of the more urban counterparts, I'd still bet that they are moving (a bit more slowly perhaps) more in that same direction.
Finally, this move up market is not something that is done overnight. Over the past few years Subaru has been slowly, but deliberately, changing (upgrading) their product mix. This is true across the board, but especially noticeable in the Impreza lineup.
Bob
The Legacy L with the 5 speed is lighter than the other Legacy/Outback models, and at only 200 lbs more than the Forester (and with a lower center of gravity) has a light and sprightly feel in driving. It is quite well equipped, and there are no features I want that are missing. I am unlikely to be in the car market soon, but Subaru could price themselves out of my consideration in the future, particularly if Honda or Toyota get back into the wagon business.
Legacys of that era were available with "air suspension" which, from what I've read, is expensive to fix. I think the common wisdom is to replace the air suspension with (IIRC) struts.
I agree, I like this great new technology but hope it ends up being reliable over the long term (I'm not a Luddite).
And Soren (hiker6), I also hope the L isn't dropped. It's just what I was looking for in 91; right features at the right price. Whetted my appetite for Subarus. This time around I wanted the L, my wife the GT. Glad we got the GT as it's such fun on the twisties. Model variety to fit various wants and budgets is a good thing.
..Mike
..Mike
If anything I'd wager that the newer Subies are more reliable than those of yore. As for the gadgetry, a lot of it is solid state electronics and/or taken from a laundry list of other consumer goods; IOW it's like a PC - it either breaks within the first 15 minutes or it works flawlessly for years on end and, not much in between. Cheer up, people! If anything, Subarus are getting better - not worse.
IMHO,
WDB
hand knowledge in this regard. Can't say I've
had that kind of experience since I'm
not a mechanic.
But,there was a time when I could drive a car,(into the ground that is) until father time showed me the errors of my ways. Its a wonder my "89" 4x4 wagon rolls considering all the use I've got out of it. And I understand that there are wear items on any car that's just plain old needs replacement. I expect that kind of repair.
My MY00OB should last longer than the olders
models, and I expect it to. I'm holding Subaru to
it since this is the Legend.
If Subaru were to offer something like that, but with the H-4, and offer the GT with only the H-6, that would, I think, address the concerns of those who think Subaru is moving upscale too quickly, or too drasticly. It would also separate the GT from the L, from a performance standpoint.
Bob