Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi eegs2k. What sort of price range are you looking in? The Audi allroad would fit this bill, is a great vehicle, and has a decent lease program on it right now. The same goes for the Acura MDX, Honda Pilot, Volvo V70, and a number of Subaru models.

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eegs2k · January 2005

I am trying to keep my payment around 300 or lower (if possible). I should've specified that in my other post.

lycanthris · January 2005

Can you give me lease info for the following:

MSRP is $27,200 figure selling price of $25,200 (maybe i can get less but i am sure i can get 2k off msrp)

i would like to know MF and residuals for 24mo/15k and 36mo/15k. Can you also figure an estimated payment for each term based on these numbers? Does Honda have any specials right now or are the MF's just standard?

Thanks so much.

kbrown · January 2005

Thanks Car Man,

The car is not used it's an New g35x 04 leftover. when I get the specifics I will repost..

sgsunny · January 2005

Well, Car_Man,

While it may not appear so...I have come much further along than YOU realize...YOU have been

so very helpful; a response from you that in-

cludes anything other than a shudder & possesses

comments like "..The payment that you were quoted

looks pretty good to me..." is music to my ears.

I haven't seen Acura or AHFC honor or acknowledge

much, cust loyalty (3rd Acura) or what I've been

told is an impeccable credit rating...is that a

regional thing?

Regardless..I've learned a great deal..and should

be getting the new TL on Thursday..

MANY THANKS, Car_man!!

(P.S....you should be proud..I walked up/out of

a deal in the middle of SIGNING, last week..b/c

it "smelled" soooo bad...& I did do better after-

all!!)

sgsunny · January 2005

Hi kyfdx...

A quick note of thanks..as you too have been very

helpful..(NOTE my recent postings)

Having walked out on a deal (in tears, I might

add) last week...I am feeling much better about

my new ACURA TL I'm getting this week.

rbarone · January 2005

thanks CarMan , and yes i would appreciate you working up a sample lease payment.do you need any info from me?

greene1 · January 2005

Hi Carman -

Could you please give me the residual and money factor for 2005 Audi A4 1.8T for a 36 month lease with 12k miles per year?

Thank you!

Nick

jbaer · January 2005

Car_man -

so I assume when I see these internet ads for Capital one auto loans for 4% APR on 36 month loans, that these rates are for purchasing a car and not leasing one?

Also do you have any experience with leasewizard.com or leasecompare.com? I'm not really sure if they would be helpful for me at this point considering that with all your help I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how leasing works. However I am curious if they offer any advantages in terms of getting good money factors? Jeff

dzuba · January 2005

With $1500 off MSRP - this is what my dealer came up with for a 36Month/15K per year lease: Cost of vehicle before TTL is $33110



"The lease for 36 months with 0 Down is $674. This is a true 0 down (1st payment is rolled in) with 35 remaining payments of $674.



With $1489.91 down (1st, security, license and doc fee) your payment is $616.52."

The residual is $19,727.70. The money factor is .003021.



Any thoughts or comparative leases out there - as these seems crazy to me. I could finance the entire vehicle and still have a payment less than either of these options.

satturngirl · January 2005

In a nutshell, we leased a 2004 Toyota Matrix for 5.5 years @ $344 a month roughly a year ago. Now our family is expanding again and we need a minivan. I'm thinking about trading in the lease for a used minivan (an older model) and transferring the negative equity to the new van. I'm thinking it's better to be upside down in something I'm purchasing than to be upside two more years from now when I can technically trade the vehicle in for a lease trade up. The car is worth 14000 and we owe 20000. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

qbrozen · January 2005

How long ago did you lease it? What is the residual? I'm just taking a stab here and guessing you've had it about a year now. Even then, you have 4.5 years of lease payments left for a total of $18,576, PLUS the residual, which I doubt is $1500. So where did that $20K number come from? Even if you got it really early in the model year, that would knock maybe $1200 or $1500 off that payment total, but a $3K residual still seems really odd to me. I think you are WAY further in the hole than you think you are.

Are you maybe thinking that you owe $20K because you have $20K in lease payments remaining? Because it doesn't work that way this early in the lease and it definitely doesn't work that way if you are trading it in for its current value. Its all your lease payments PLUS the residual at the end of the lease. I'm sure you already know this, but leasing for that long and on a car that inexpensive is a HUGE mistake.

rbru · January 2005

Car Man- A casual friend, Toyota salesman offered me a lease price of 470 mo. 2500 down (tax and fees inc.) for a 2005 Seqouia SR5, 4wd, 36-39 mos, 12k mi/yr. no leather, basic package, live in Long Island , Do you think this is in the ballpark of the going rates or should i shop around, Thank you

satturngirl · January 2005

According to Huntington National Bank that is our payoff amount. We have had the car almost a year; April will be a year exactly. Yes we are finding out the hard way that leasing the vehicle that long was a huge mistake. I'm not sure what the residual is, how can I find out? When I spoke to Huntington they told me that if we traded in the vehicle we would have to pay the difference between what the vehicle is worth vs. what we owe.

qbrozen · January 2005

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but I don't believe that makes sense. Since you bought it in April, then, by my math, you have like almost $20K just in payments ..... Maybe this is a goofy question, but are you SURE its a lease?? You can ask them what your residual is or you can look on your original contract. Maybe whoever you talked to at the bank screwed up and forgot to add in the residual?

kyfdx · January 2005

Don't forget negative equity rolled in from a previous car..

Our friend is looking to trade after just one year... I'm betting that has happened before...

regards,

kyfdx

qbrozen · January 2005

Oh, I'm SURE there is negative equity in that deal. The payments alone are more than the cost of a new Matrix, aren't they?

Man, 5.5 year lease and wanting to get out after just one year is a just a whole new level of "buried."

joe44 · January 2005

Car Man, yes it is me again.

I have the following deal on the table:

A lease on a 2005 Pilot EX w/leather and DVD would be $396.00 + tax per month.

This payment is based on:

- a selling price of $30,093.00 + fees

- $0.00 Cap Reduction.

- 36 months @ 15K per year.

- Current Money factor of .00164

- Residual of 58% or $19,798.00

Two Questions:

1. Are these the current money and residual factors you are showing for a Pilot EX-L with RES?

2. Would the factors be different for just the Leather and not RES included (know my price will be lower)?

thanks again-- also, can you throw me the 36 month/15k numbers for nissan pathfinders? THANKS

kyfdx · January 2005

joe44... give Car_man the MSRP.

cpeterson3 · January 2005

Hello.

Comments have been made that there's little room for a dealer to come off the required "program" down payment on a lease but how about a re-lease? A few manufacturers out there actively promote the re-leasing of their cars through their own finance arms like Jaguar.

To me, this is very attractive as it is always more affordable and the term is generally shorter.

But what about the down payment? Being a re-lease, do think I have more leverage in bringing that number down? (without of coarse inflating the monthly payment) thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

In that case, eegs2k, you may want to check out Subarus. While a number of its models are more expensive than they were in the past, you can still get a good AWD Subaru for a reasonable price.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi lycanthris. I would be more than happy to help you out. According to the latest informaiton that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 w/o navi through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 2 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00118 and 62%, respectively. The money factor for an otherwise identical 3 year lease of this car should be the same, but the residual value would fall to 53%. These money factors are indeed special, they are less than half of AHFC's standard money factors which aren't that bad to begin with. Using these numbers, an MSRP of $27,200, and a selling price of $25,200, I estimate that this car has a 2 year, 15,000 miles per, zero down, pre-tax lease payment of around $397 and an otherwise identical 3 year payment of around $347.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

No problem, kbrown. Talk to you then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

I am glad that you have learned so much from this forum, sgsunny. I do not believe that Acura is currently running an owner loyalty program, other than the waiver of its security deposit requirement for returning lessees. Make sure to stop back and let us know how you like your new car.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome, rbarone. In order for me to calculate a lease payment on this truck for you, I need you to tell me its full MSRP including destination, its selling price, how long you want the lease to be for, and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Here you go, Nick. If you were to lease a 2005 Audi A4 1.8T Cabriolet through Audi Financial Services right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00200 and 59%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You are correct, Jeff. The advertisements that you have seen from independent banks, like Capital One, advertising low interest rates, such as 4%, are for conventional loans. Their lease rates would most likely be different.

I am not personally familiar with leasewizard.com or leasecompare.com, but I personally doubt that they provide consumers with accurate information on what the actual lease programs from manufacturers' captive finance companies are like on vehicles. You would be better off saving your money and using the lease calculator that is available here at Edmunds.com and the information that you are able to get from this forum.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi dzuba. Let's work up a sample lease payment on a similar van to the one that you are considering and see what we come up with. The MSRP, including destination, of a 2005 Honda Odyssey EX w/ DVD and Nav is currently around $34,610. A selling price of $1,500 below this would be $33,110. Using these numbers, if you were to lease this van through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, zero security deposit, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $510. As you can see, this payment is much lower than the one that you were quoted, so something definitely is not right. Perhaps the dealer that you are working with is marking-up AHFC's lease program to add additional back-end profit to your deal. I used a money factor of .00260 and a residual value of 57% to arrive at this payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Greetings satturngirl. You leased a Toyota Matrix for five and a half years?!? I didn't even think that most banks would lease a vehicle for that long. I am sorry to say that it is probably going to be very expensive for you to get out of your lease this early. In order to do so, you need to purchase your leased vehicle from the bank that you are leasing it through, at what often turns out to be a higher price than it is worth on the open market, and either sell it on your own or trade it in. To make matters even worse, many banks require their lessees to make all, or at least a significant portion, of their remaining payments on leased vehicles that they want to get out of early. As you can see, it often is very expensive to get out of leased vehicles early. It is almost always in consumers' best interest to wait until they are as close as possible to the scheduled end of their lease to get a new vehicle. I am sorry that I don't have better news for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hello rbru. It is difficult for me to evaluate this lease without knowing this truck's full MSRP and selling price. If you provide me with these numbers, I will tell you exactly what I think of the price that you were quoted and will work a sample lease program on this model using Toyota's actual lease program that you can compare to the payment that you have already been quoted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi again joe44. The lease money factor and residual value that you were quoted for this truck are right on the money. That is always a good thing. It is difficult for me to comment on the selling price that you were quoted without knowing this truck's full MSRP, including destination charges. Not only will this number tell me what sort of a discount you are being given, it will also enable me to calculate a lease payment on this truck to compare to the one that you have been quoted. I believe that the Pilot's residual values are the same for the EX with leather and the EX with the rear entertainment system. If you add the navigation system, the residual would drop another point.

In order for me to give me an idea of what Nissan's lease program is currently like on the 2005 Pathfinder, I need you to tell me exactly which model you are interested in, i.e. and XE 2WD, a LE 4WD, etc...

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi cpeterson3. The down payments on leased vehicles are always negotiable. Consumers are free to lease whichever new or used vehicle they would like without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction. In fact, it is in your best interest not to put any money down when leasing. Eliminating the down payment from an advertised lease will however increase the monthly payment, unless you can negotiate an equivalent discount in the car or truck's selling price.

The problem with leasing used vehicles, or in this case releasing a vehicle that you have already leased once, is that the level of support that many manufacturers' provide on their used vehicle lease programs significantly lags the level of support that they provide on their new vehicle lease programs. This is because automakers derive a much larger benefit from supporting new vehicle leases, enabling them to sell more vehicles and keep their factories humming than they do from the slight boost in residual values used vehicle lease programs provide. I have seen cases where it was actually possible for a consumer to lease an equivalent brand new vehicle than it was for them to re-lease their current one. Manufacturers' exact used vehicle lease programs vary from company to company and even from month to month, so it is difficult for me to generalize about how much it would cost you to continue leasing your current vehicle after your original lease on it expires.

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leslietva3 · January 2005

I've been offered the following lease deal:

2005 Honda Pilot EX-Leather

MSRP - $32,120

Down Pmt - $2,645

Monthly Pmt - $400 per mo / 36 mo

Residual/Purchase Price $19,600

12,000 mi/year (.15 mi over)

I noticed that Joe44 got a "seemingly" better deal. Are lease/purchases negotiable?

suebeedux · January 2005

Thanks for the leasing numbers. What are considered reasonable leasing fees (acquistion, gap, etc.)? Can you give breakdown?

Also, how much should I be paying over invoice for this car (totally loaded with DVD, sticker $55,400)? The demand seems pretty low. I don't see any on the road.

Thanks

edmundophile · January 2005

Hi. in the past i used the edmunds method and got great prices on my cars, what i thought was acceptablly close to invoice. When i then told the salesman that i wanted to lease the car, he and the manager had a huge laugh as if i had wasted all their time. they then ask how much i want to pay! i never answer that question of course. So am i doing this the right way? i need to get a new lease next week. thank you.

edmundophile

edmundophile · January 2005

try costco online service for car purchase. they make deals with dealerships. each car type is different. in the past my lexus rx was 200 over invoice, no haggle. i love costco. unfortunately they don't do porche right now.

http://www.costcoauto.com/index.asp?

kyfdx · January 2005

My $0.02..

You are doing it correctly.. Unfortunately, when you bring up a lease, some salespeople see that as "another bite of the apple", and a chance to do away with your hard-won negotiation...

Just tell them that you want a lease figured on your negotiated selling price and using the base money factor and residual... And, that you want to see the numbers.. If they aren't willing to do that, find another dealer..

regards,

kyfdx

greene1 · January 2005

Thanks for the earlier quote Carman. Just need info for one more: 2005 Audi A4 1.8T SE for 12k miles and at 36/39/42/48 -- just trying to look where I can extend the lease months without a lower residual.

Thanks!!!

lycanthris · January 2005

I have actually managed to get an offer accepted for this car for $23,900. How much should this affect the monthly payments?

Thanks

bisedogg · January 2005

Could you please provide me with the January money factor and residual numbers for a 325i for 24 and 36 months with 12k per year? Thanks!

joe44 · January 2005

Here are the details on the two lease quotes I have received from a dealer in Georgia.

Pilot EX-L

MSRP 32,635 includes destination

- $28,753 Selling Price

- $0.00 Cap Reduction

- 36 months @ 15K per year

- Current money factor of .00164

- Residual value of 58% or $18,928.30

for a payment of $379 plus tax per month

Pilot EX-L with RES (DVD)

MSRP 34135 includes destination

- a selling price of $30,093.00 + fees

- $0.00 Cap Reduction.

- 36 months @ 15K per year.

- Current Money factor of .00164

- Residual of 58% or $19,798.00

A lease on a 2005 Pilot EX w/leather and DVD would be $396.00 + tax per month

Both of these offers sound great to me. Car Man, should I pull the trigger in your opinion?

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi leslietva3. The selling prices of leased vehicles absolutely are negotiable, just as if you were financing or paying cash for the vehicle that you are interested in. Do some research here on Edmunds.com, by looking in discussions like this one: "Honda Pilot: Prices Paid & Buying Experience", and figure out approximately how much money you should pay for this truck. Once you know the full MSRP and selling price of the truck that you are interested in, stop back here and I will be more than happy to work up a lease payment on it for you using Honda's actual lease program. This will give you an idea of what your payment should be like. Armed with this information, you should be able to get a much better deal on the Pilot that you want than if you had just walked into a dealer off of the street without doing any research first.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome, suebeedux. At lease signing for this truck, you will have to pay its first month's payment, a security deposit that is equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $50 increment, and Infiniti Financial Services' acquisition fee of $550 (it is higher than this in a couple of states). I believe, but am not absolutely positive, that IFS includes gap insurance in its leases at no additional charge. I am not personally all that familiar with how much the QX56 is selling for in your area, but you may be able to get an idea by visiting the following discussion: "Infiniti QX56: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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leslietva3 · January 2005

Thank you Car Man... I will follow your advise and get back with you. I appreciate your help! LeslieTVA3

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi edmundophile. While you do not necessarily have to hide the fact that you want to lease your new vehicle, it is definitely a good idea to negotiate its selling price first. Dealers love to talk payment rather than selling price with consumers because they can play with the numbers to maximize their profit. Just make sure to do some research to find out if there are any cash incentives available on the model that you are interested in when it is leased and take this cash into account during your negotiations.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

No problem, leslietva3. Make sure to let me know if you have any other questions.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're very welcome, greene1. If you were to lease a 2005 Audi A4 1.8T SE sedan without quattro through AFS for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00050 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for otherwise identical 39 and 48 month leases of this car should be .00070 / 54% and .00235 / 47%. I have not seen its 42 month lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Lycanthris, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 Sedan without navigation with an MSRP of $27,200 and a selling price of $23,900 through AHFC right now, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $342 for 2 years and $309 for 3 years, both with 15,000 miles per.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Here you go, bisedogg. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 BMW 325i through BMW Financial Services right now for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00225 and 68%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 3 year lease of this car should be .00225 and 58%. The reason why these money factors are so much higher this month than they were last is BMW replaced some of the lease money factor support that it was providing on this model with $2,500 dealer cash. Make sure to take this money cash into account when negotiating the capitalized cost of the 325i that you want.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hello joe44. The selling prices and lease money factors that were used to calculate these lease payments look great to me. I just played with some numbers though and came up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payments of around $352 for the first truck and $368 for the second. Since both of the quotes that you were given are also before tax, you should find out what sort of fees are being added in to cause such a difference.

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