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Subaru Crew - Future Models
bonnie_rick
Member Posts: 115
in Subaru
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I'll get this started with some spy shots of the Impreza due this fall here in the US:
http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~simon/2.5RS/edit/spy.html
The 2001 Forester is already out, so check out SoA's page for more info:
http://www.subaru.com/forester/index.html
Finally, I can't wait to read about (and later drive) the new Boxer 6 engine in the upcoming LL Bean Outback. The New York show is this month, so keep your eyes peeled for that URL.
Anyone have the URLs for the ST-X and Exiga concepts handy?
-juice
Though not for US consumption, see the
Impreza WRX S201 STi version. Listen to the beautiful sounds of the 300ps (221 kW) @ 6500rpm, 2.0l EJ20 motor. If you've got two speakers, you'll love the Doppler effect.
Mike
..Mike
http://www.subaru.com/calcon/index.html
Pretty neat.
-Colin
Autoweek just restated the usual stuff in next Monday's New Car Issue.
We'll get "220" hp in the new boxer 6, plus the new Impreza with the turbo (no date specified). They also said the ST-X is a maybe for MY2002.
-juice
I think this is a great idea I just hope that they don't just market it to the active gen-Xers a-la Xterra.
Just my opinion
Stephen
The 8.5" of clearance is a pretty good start for a stock vehicle, though I'm sure there will be mods for another 4" or so, plus tires.
-juice
If it is, it looks great! I believe that this may be a computer enhanced picture though.
Drew
Drew -- The Japanese text is cut off on the bottom, but it looks like it says "New Impreza at the end of August".
Bob
I think with the new IIHS crash test rating, this super-sticky OB would be the overall safest car you can buy in the U.S. for less than $35K. (Plus it'll last 10+ years and probably be a hoot to drive, too.)
Impreza in August? Bummer, I had heard June, so we may only get it in the fall.
I saw the Forester S w/Premium package for the first time in person, and as everyone says, the moonroof is HUUUUGE! you have no idea until you see it. It's twice as big as mine, and serves front and rear passengers.
Overall it looks considerably better than my original '98 L model, I have to admit. Anyone else think the optional grille looks like it belongs on an Infiniti?
-juice
I have not heard anything about another B-6. That would be a nice surprise though!
Juice- I don't think well see the new Impreza (here in the USA) until next winter. I'm guessing February, and as a 2002 model.
Bob
Speaking of looks: the Forester S/Premium in black is the hot ticket, as far as I'm concerned.
Bob
Maybe I am behind the times, but I just received this month's Design News magazine and on page 30, is a picture of Chevy's (to be introduced in 2001, according to the article) 'Convert-a-Truck' which looks like the same concept as the Subaru STX!!! It is called the Avalanche. Anyone heard of this? Who copied who?? It looks like the Chevy is bigger - it claims to have a bed extendable from 5'3" to 8 feet, capable of carrying a 4'x8' sheet of plywood.
http://www.manufacturing.net/magazine/dn/archives/current/new.html
unfortunately, no picture in this link.
The chevy link with neat stuff is:
http://www.chevrolet.com/avalanche/index_flash.htm
Personally I like Subaru's style better.
-Howard
Anyone know?
Stephen
Anyway, we just got the announcement this morning from our CEO and VP's,
The flat-6 is officially scheduled for production for the MY 2001 Outback Limited...which they say will include the stability control. Production will start this August.
Also, the LL Bean Outback is a definite go...it's to be the official car of LL Bean, the first corporate sponsorship for Subaru, and the first endorsement like this for LL Bean. They're really psyched about it here.
The ST-X is a stretched Legacy, BTW. Rumors are that if it's produced, it may be here as well. That'd make sense, since we do build the Legacy it's based on. But that's only a rumor.
I also wonder what extras the L.L Bean Outback will get over the standard Legacy. My guesses are special interior trim and probably some badging. It probably may also include some L.L Bean apparrel for the customer. The funny thing is that the L.L Bean model will be available for the Canadian market, and yet, I don't believe that we have any L.L. Bean stores here at all!
Drew
Dunno about the automanual. The Limited is available with a 5-spd manual right now, so hopefully they'll continue that with the six. That'd be better than an automanual anyway, IMHO.
The only thing they said the LL Bean model will have is a special appearance package. There might be more they're just not telling us, but I dunno.
Bob
Check out Edmund's review of the NY Auto Show. The new Toyota Highland — which looks like a Forester on steriods - will be a tough match for the Forester - as will the new RAV4. The Highlander is reportedly to be priced very close to the Forester. I also like the production version of the Acura MDX. GM has also introduced a new Bravada and several upgraded GMCs.
This morning the LL Bean B-6 Outback will be announced! It looks like a good year coming up!
Bob
They have a PDF that shows everything except fuel economy and MSRP.
It is a 3.0L H6 making 212HP@6000rpm and 210lb-ft@4400rpm. Unfortunately both the LLB and VDC models are real porkers... 3700lbs (versus 3500 for a regular Outback Limited Wagon). With that kind of weight to haul around, I think the performance gain over a much lighter '99 OBW with the 2.5L will be blunted.
-Colin
Maybe it's just my microcosm of society where people will buy a crappy lexus over an excellent ford, or an acura over an outstanding subaru...
-mike
FYI, I think Bob meant Boxer-6 by B-6.
Outback H6-3.0 models run on regular fuel, but 91 octane is recommended for maximum performance. Interesting.
variable intake manifold If I'm not mistaken, the 2.5l SOHC Phase II doesn't have a varilabe intake manifold. Nice improvement.
A mechanical valve in the rear muffler varies muffler volume to help enhance engine power in different speed ranges. Wow, never heard of such an animal! Increase back-pressure at low RPM with a simple valve -- simple, elegant solution.
Ok, now for my obligatory comments on the ergonomics:
8-way power driver's seats over the GT, OB, and OB Ltd 6-way.
both front seatbacks have convenient seatback pockets Graham, we're gaining on you Australians
And finally, the style of the new alloy wheels: I still prefer the GT's.
I notice the splash guards/mud flaps mold around the ground effects (below the rocker panel if that term is still correct) between the wheels. These weren't available on the GT when we ordered it; hopefully the 2001 OB ones will fit.
..Mike
..Mike
Variable exhaust valve-- Nissan Maxima has that.
I'm still miffed about the curb weight. That engine will be good in the STX if they produce it AND it's a few hundred pounds lighter.
-Colin
I am drooling over the specs! Does anyone know what MSRP is going to be?
http://www.autoshowny.com/press/prod_large/new2000subar_outback.jpg
..Mike
Well, I just went through all of the info. and all I can say that it's about time! :-) At least now Subaru wagons can be taken more seriously with that huge power boost. It's just like how the '01 Nissan Pathfinders are getting a lot of hoopla over the new 240hp 3.5L V6 Maxima derived engine.
I'm very impressed by the additional features of the 3.0 B6 but I'm curious as to why there's so much extra weight. Obviously part of it can be attributed to the larger engine block, but the rest of the features don't really weigh that much. I wonder if it is possible that the B6 Outbacks have additional sound dampening that contributed to the weight gain as well. It certainly is possible. The B6 engine also seems to be tuned more for greater torque at lower rpms versus high horse power. In any case, it is still competitive with the VW Passat's V6 or the Audi A4/A6's V6 engines. I'd like to see some performance numbers though.
I seem to recall that the McIntosh radio has been offered in Japanese Legacy/Lancaster models for a couple of years already. At least it's finally making its way over here now.
Finally, here's another reminder for everyone as to what stability control systems can do for you. Click here for the video clip. Microsoft Windows Media Player is needed to view this clip.
Drew
Actually, I'm not surprised about the 4ETS because most vehicles with stability control system have traction control. The traction control is just another component of stability management system. But, for it to be offered on a Subaru? Pretty impressive. I just hope that the MSRP of the vehicle is not equally as impressive (read high). My ML320 and E320 4-matic have similar systems and they're really effective, especially in the snow and on ice.
I want a VDC. Yes, the curb weight is hefty, and I expect some increased frictional power losses (by the way, does anyone understand the difference between the "Active AWD" (what is already on OB's and the LLB) and the "VTD" if both use an electronically controlled hydraulic transfer clutch? Is it just that VTD omits the LSD because it has selective-brake TCS? I thought the VTD involved torsen-type diffs all around, which would maybe account for some of the weight increase.)
Has anyone run the power-to weight ratio numbers against Audi, VW, Volvo wagons/sedans? Also, I predict a $32,500 sticker for the VDC. Getting all the goodies for nothing would be too good to be true.
It’s important to point out that the Subaru system relies first on VTD to provide corrective action for enhanced vehicle stability. The system invokes traction control only if the All-Wheel Drive does not restore traction and stability quickly enough.
In contrast, some all-wheel drive vehicles that also use traction control essentially use their all-wheel drive as a "backup." They first use traction control (typically braking the slipping wheel or wheels) before transferring power to the wheels with traction. Subaru has found that this method can actually impede traction and stability in some cases since it impedes momentum."
Hehe, I'm afraid that the "some AWD vehicles that also use traction control" includes the MB 4-matic system to a certain extent. But, it's not really as bad as it sounds. You don't notice anything at all usually. It's just that you don't get stuck as easily.
The 4-matic system does activate once there is a 3mph difference (in high range; 1.2mph in low range) between wheel speed. The differential is then tricked into thinking that there's resistance on the spinning wheel, hence most power is restored to the wheel with traction (i.e. non-spinning/slipping wheel).
My guess is that the 4-matic system it is set up this way because of its off-road use as well as snow/ice use (though not in the cars/wagons, obviously). Subarus obviously are not designed for too much off-roading, hence the system is biased towards on-road performance. I'd like more technical data on the Subie though, just for curiousity's sake.
"The new VTD automatic transmission uses an electronically controlled hydraulic transfer clutch that works with a planetary gear-type center differential to control power distribution between the front and rear wheels. Under most conditions the VTD system splits the power 45 percent front and 55 percent rear. The slight rear-wheel bias enhances the performance driving feel, and the VTD system can vary the power split as needed to respond to road conditions.
Like Active All-Wheel Drive, VTD adjusts the front/rear power split, always helping to ensure that the wheels with the best traction receive the most power."
It's interesting that the power is now split 45%/55% as well. Subaru claims that a slight rear-bias adds to a more performance driving feeling (i.e. like a RWD car). This could be true to a certain extent. The 4-matic system in my car is also setup for rear-bias (38%/62%), for a more traditional MB RWD car feel.
No, there are no Torsen-type diffs at all. This would not only increase complexity and weight, but also cost. Torsen diffs are very effective (better than traction control), but only Audi (and now VW) uses it as a wide spread application in their Quattro/4-motion system. The whole point of going to 4 wheel traction control is to reduce weight, complexity, price, and frictional losses while giving up only some performance (vs. the Torsen-diffs, I mean). The VDC Outback will have three open differentials (no extra weight from the rear LSD). Rather than explain it all here again, I'm going to refer you to a message (below) that I posted in the M-class topic, regarding 4 wheel traction control systems.
"The Lexus fails the roller test (representing ice on the road) because when the front wheels slip on ice the unmanaged center differential allows all torque to get lost at the front wheels (path of least resistance) rather than making any torque available to the rear wheels. Your observation was correct: The ML has spinning rear wheels first before they start gripping. Reason is that the 4ETS system will need a speed difference of 3 mph between slipping and non slipping wheels first before it starts its traction management. Itis good to know that the speed difference in low range is only 1.2 mph before 4ETS steps in. So, if you have something difficult to drive use low range and take it easy on the gas.
All this is a good demonstration why the ML is the
best SUV since the invention of 4WD. No other 4WD offers you so much sophistication and safety for the money."
"Explanations about differentials and traction management systems sometimes include the term "transfer of torque". Torque is only present when there is resistance. Grab a broom stick with one hand and twist it. You are using power and the stick is turning. No torque present. Now grab wthe stick also with your other hand and stop the movement (resistance). Now there is torque present.
Translating this to vehicles: There is only torque when there is traction (resistance). As long as two wheels on one axle have about the same traction they both receive about the same amount of torque. Torque then creates forward movement. If one of the wheels encounters low traction (ice etc), there is less resistance than the torque available to that wheel, resulting in a spinning wheel. No more torque present at this moment. Since power always follows the path of least resistance, the differential will not make any power available to wheel with good traction.
There are a couple of ways out of this predicament.
1. Disabling the differential. This can be done
manually or automatically - called "differential
lock".
2. Hindering the differential to do it's work.
Done with friction plates or gears - called
"limited slip"
3. Fooling the differential. Done by creating
artificial traction (resistance) with automatic
brake action like 4ETS.
When 4ETS steps in to slow down a speeding wheel,
torque is not "transfered" to the wheel with
traction. Torque is created by artificial
traction (resistance) through brake action on one
wheel and good old true traction on the other
wheel. The differential is fooled this way to
"think" both wheels have traction again and then
it continues to deliver 50% of the power to each
wheel."
I hope that this explains your questions.
Drew
Regarding the price, note this in the press release:
Subaru Enters The "Entry Luxury" Segment
.. qualifies the new Outback H6-3.0 models for membership in the "entry luxury" segment, where competitors include the Audi A4 Avant Quattro 2.8, Volkswagen Passat 4Motion wagon, and Volvo V70 XC Cross Country.
I guess this mean the price will be in the low end of those competitors. The "Entry Luxury" Segment -- I just love that marketspeak! What a great way to convince hoi polloi that to keep up w/the Jonses, yet at the same time maintain individualuality, it's time to shell out more bucks! Brilliant marketing by SoA. Not saying I want to pay more than I have to but from a business perspective it's a stupendous marketing maneuver.
..Mike
..Mike
How does this apply to real life you ask? Well go to this page and view the 18% roller test. Or, for even more spectacular off-road footage with the 4ETS in action, go to this page and click on "Torsion Test". You'll be able to see the right rear wheel spin and the 4ETS kick in.
It's funny because I would've never thought of the Subaru brand name as being associated with luxury just a few years ago (well okay, maybe the SVX - Snow Vehicle Xtrodinare ). But, with all of this advanced technology, VDC, 4ETS, AWD, leather, etc. that is usually found on more expensive makes, I would expect nothing less than it being in the entry level luxury market now. Of course, the B6 wagons will probably have a price tag to match. I just hope that its not too high.
Hey, how about a Honda Insight or Toyota Prius for fuel efficiency? :-)
Drew
No, it's not like having limited slip differentials on both axles. It's like having locking differentials on both axles. Because limited slip differentials use friction plates and such to impede the differentials effectiveness (i.e. it doesn't transfer power as readily to the path with the least resistance), they are not as effective as locking differentials.
Manual transmissions and their corresponding AWD are simpler than the 4EAT. Again I think that's marketing, since a WRX 5spd handles much more torque than the new H6 produces... and surely the bellhousing on the engine is compatible with the existing transmissions.
-Colin