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Subaru Crew - Meet The Members
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While I'm at it, anyone have any suggestions for sound deadening mods to a sport?
Mary
I've heard that you can spray the rubberised stoneguard stuff inside the wheelwells to reduce the noise levels. Also, adding full length door edge guards will lessen the gaps in between the doors, and help minimally in reducing wind noise there.
The large open cargo area of an SUV or station wago is succeptible to booming/echoing and amplification of the interior noises. Using the cargo area tonneau cover should help to marginally reduce noise levels even further. You can also use the Dynamat stuff (or maybe just a large old blanket) underneath the cargo tray to try and absorb even more sound.
Drew
I am more than ready to wave the truce flag and move on from ac discussions. I didn't realise that it would be such a hot topic (sorry, couldn't resist the bad pun).
I understand that alot of the tire noise comes from the 'slap' of the tire blocks as they hit the road. That is why knobby off-road truck tires make so much more noise than smoother car tires.
MikeF
Juice, I haven't looked at your nice new alloys yet, but I'm going to as I like to see cars with tasteful aftermarket alloys (as long as they're not garish chrome, low profile jobs that look like a black rubber band wrapped around a prop from an outboard motor). As far as prices, alloy wheels are like a pair of sneakers, where after about $60-75, you are essentially paying for exclusivity, advertising, high distribution costs, and celebrity endorsements. There may be some marginal differences between your wheels and the $200-300 ones, but for real-world use $75-100 is about all I'd want to lose when the wheel meets a pothole or curb. I had picked up a set of Subaru 15" alloys for $65 each from Tire Rack a few years back. The dealer wanted about $250 each, which is preposterous.
Kathy, I'm impressed by your willingness to install the tailgate bar; my wife and any of her friends couldn't change a flat tire to save their lives. Come to think of it, many of my male friends couldn't either. The first time my wife saw one of those tailgate bars on an OB wagon, we were driving in her Legacy Wagon. She had no idea why anyone would put that on a Subaru wagon, saying that even though she's a 5'3" weakling, she never had any problem closing her liftgate. I had to explain that to many, it's more about style than function, even though I personally think it makes the back of the car look like a Broilmaster gas grill.
I also like how you plan to find out how much it costs installed at the dealer so you can tell your husband how much you "saved". When I bought the alloy wheels when I took over her '92 Legacy, I tried that angle, but no matter what, she only focused on the $300 I "spent". I guess it's all about perspectives.
Last, regarding overall road noise, I'm off to U of Michigan next week for a three day course at the Chrysler Center called Product Sound Quality Engineering. I'm no engineer, but it's related to the work I do. Some (or most) of it will be going over my head, but I'll be happy to present any questions to the Ph.D.'s conducting the class, (two are from Ford, but I'll try to keep my smart-[non-permissible content removed] comments to myself).
But I don't need that $1,000 course to tell you that tires are a huge part of reducing NVH (noise/vibration/harshness. Yesterday, I had Michelin Pilot XGT's installed to replace my well-worn, out-of-balance, unevenly-worn Potenza RE 92's. It's as if I went from a Corolla to a Lexus LS400 in terms of quietness and smoothness. Of course I'm comparing old to new, but even Consumer Reports has noted huge differences in noise between different brands of new tires within the same class.
(Sorry for the long post!)
I think I need more sleep...
KenS: I'm trying to think of what cars come standard with a strut tower brace. It may have been an aftermarket conversion, but perhaps someone else can think of an OE application?
Skip: since you gave the OK, I'll "steal" the photos and post them on my site.
Kathy: way to go with the DIY (do-it-yourself) job. That's probably about an hour of labor at a dealer, or $65-80 or so.
Mary: I was going to comment on the tires, but looks like that's been covered pretty well already.
GTDriver: I actually did inquire about take-off wheels for Subaru. Problem is, they only had 15" alloys, and my biggest gripe was the 70 series tires, which meant 16" was a must. With what I ended up paying, I'm glad I kept shopping!
-juice
Did the new wheels/rubber change your turning circle?
I ask because I owned an 85 Dodge Shelby Charger which came stock with a set of fat Goodyear gatorbacks. Great tires, they stuck so well you could practically climb walls with them, but the downside was they were so wide you needed a tugboat to parallel park. I don't remember but they added a hefty amount to the turning circle over a stock charger.
The compartment in the back of the armrest is about the right size for credit cards or one cassette tape, It won't even hold my Palm Pilot. So I don't know what Subaru intended it for, Maybe something the japanese carry in their cars?
gtdriver,
I think SOA should take note of your comment about the liftgate grab bar and team up with broilmaster, much as they are with Eddie Bauer for a limited edition. It would be easy, just replace the rear hidden cargo compartment with gas burners and grills and Viola! The commecials could have Paul Hogan cooking shrimp on the barbie and talking about how RAV4 owners only have half the grilling area. :-)
I just took home my new Forester, a 2001 silver S with premium package. It was very hard to get since 5-speeds seem to be in tight supply, especially for the S models. (I'll give a big plug to Charlie Yokum at Frederick Motors in Frederick MD for searching everywhere to get just the car I wanted, and going way out to West VA to pick it up.) Anyway, on my very first drive home I got a couple of (admittedly very small) chips in the hood from a piece of gravel. That first mark on the car is always a bummer! I've decided to get a hood deflector or small hood cover. I'm leaning towards the plastic hood deflector as I've had problems with vinyl hood protectors in the past, but I don't want to drill or make any permanent modifications to the exterior of my brand new car. Is the hood deflector a bolt-on piece? Are all of the attachment points on the inside of the hood? I asked the parts department at my dealer and they were not sure. I'm capable of doing a lot of work myself so I expect I can do it all easily, I just want to be able to remove the deflector later and not leave any marks if I decide I do not like it.
-Eric
1.where can one order cartop cargo carriers, the kind that look vaguely like kayaks (shows you how much I know about them.) Will two fit on the foot side by side? Are there better cargo carrier options?
2. I bought the regular Outback, but now want to add the commpass-equipped rear-view mirror. Does anyone happen to know if the dealer can do that -- or is it only an option that can be factory installed?
Thanks much -- Al
Do you suppose to use this moonroof only when you a not in motion?
As for noise in the discussion group, be it heaters or cruise control, I think it is a sign of the 'maturing' of the group. We get to know one another more and more and eventually we are going to find things about which we simply disagree - such is life. The rule I live by is to read my own message BEFORE I hit the 'Post' button; it's saved me from myself more than once. Highly recommended.
gtdriver's rantings on cruise control and sunglasses and car accidents reminded me of a George Carlin bit. It went something like this: Did you ever notice just how many totally loony people there are on the highway? There are those idiots who go flying past at extralegal speeds, endangering everyone around them with their antics, and there are the morons who plod along at a snail's pace holding everyone up. Come to think of it, since everyone who drives faster than me is an idiot, and everyone who drives slower than me is a moron, that means the highways are completely filled with idiots and morons!
I know there are days when it looks that way to me ;-)
Cheers,
WDB
How about an outback sport version called simply The Flamer
With what that Washington Post article was saying it would tie right in to SOA's "alternative lifestyle" ad campaign. It could even come with purple or rainbow paint schemes.
On a serious note, the sunroof(s) on the GT wagon actually work in concert, the front sunroof acts as a wind deflector for the rear and somewhere in the manual it recomends using the rear in the half open position to cut back wind noise.
Eric: the hood defelctor does not require bolts. You can order one cheap from a wholesaler like QSubaru, here is their web site. It's $48 bucks delivered.
Al: you have many options. Subaru sells a cargo basket and a hard shell case. The basket is cheap, but offers no weather protection. Follow the link above for those.
You can also go aftermarket. I've seen soft carriers at Target for $25, on sale this week actually. Not sure about the quality, though. I bought this Samsonite carrier for $50.
Finally, Sears sells a bunch of the hard shell cases for pretty good prices.
Happy shopping.
-juice
That plus you can get a wind deflector to help a bit more. QSubaru also carries those for $33.50.
I paid $40 for an aftermarket model (Windflector), but then again my sunroof isn't OE so the Subaru deflector would not have fit (it fits the Outback, Legacy and Impreza though).
-juice
-mike
-juice
PS I'm still curious to measure the Forester's roof against yours. It'd be a world's largest moonroof comparo!
There's also a full shot of my Forester in the sunlight, and Skip's new, blue Forester that I stole. The photo, not the Forester.
-juice
As juice said, opening the rear windows by about an inch or two virtually eliminates this problem. A moonroof deflector helps significantly as well.
Drew
-mike
Again, I appreciate all the help, and when I finally do get it I'll let you know.
Still I'm not very enthusiastic about double moonroof. I want ME to see sky, and I want ME to get fresh air, not the back passengers
Juice: If you can easily compare, let us know how much louder your tires get with wear.
WBD: George Carlin is a funny man, thanks for the laughs. I always get going when I think of him ranting about people's "stuff".
bat1161: As I'm sure you know, all colors fade and I can't speak to the silver in particular, but I've heard that "since metallic colors reflect light more, they also reflect more into the paint itself and increase fading". Anyone want to confirm or deny this? My car is white and it's been on the road three years. I've just started taking the stickers, letters, pinstripes, etc. off and I can't see any signs of fading, but white is probably the best color to conceal shade variations.
Happy news: I didn't think I would like the fact that my 5Sp needs to be shifted into 4th at 40 and then into 5th at 45, but I've decided it's good because it helps keep me from speeding in the city. I wonder if this is intentional.
Mary
-Colin
bat: I haven't heard of paint fade being a problem.
strvt: what about the back seat passengers
I thought about getting a 2nd moonroof installed for the baby. Wouldn't that be hilarious? I'd have to remove the roof rails entirely, though.
Aftermarket wheels, eh? Ask the dealer for info on them for future reference. At a minimum, it'd be nice to know their offset. Or try the manufacturer.
-juice
I had an '86 metallic silver Volvo which looked absolutely like new after 14 years (just got rid of it). Don't know about Subaru paint.
Dave Chen
The brushguard that we have is black and titanium (not gold/bronze).
If your car is the sedona red with the titanium pearl, this brushguard is a perfect match with the colors of your car.
I'm still maintaining the ban on eating in the car, but I think she and my wife will rebel when we take the road-trip to Montana later this year (from Chicago). I will hold the line.
Finally, my wife this evening managed to close the garage door onto the rear bumper of our OB. I had backed it up a little to squeeze the lawn mower out, but I guess she didn't notice that, or me mowing. Thankfully, she was VERY lucky - the door cleared the rear window and lights and the puny screw-drive motor didn't exert enough force to damage anything - not even a scratch! Still, I shall use this incident to leverage as much from her as I can...
A very basic question. I am new to driving automatic. In terms of long-term wear, is it better to shift into neutral or stay in drive during a long stop?
Ross
Mary
Mary
Mary
Regarding eating in the car -- I highly recommend it, especially if you make it a big, juicy burger and you're wearing your best suit and tie.
And you're on the way to a wedding.
On the in-law side.
Lucky to still be co-habiting on this planet,
Randy
-mike
Just traded a '90 Legacy L wagon with 126K for a new Outback wagon and am loving the upgrade. Subarus just keep improving on a great product.
This is also a response to a posting to a Trooper owner who compared his to an Outback. I owned a 94 Trooper (the first year of this latest-and now outdated) redesign. I put 90,000 miles on it after three or so years and was totally disappointed with it. I got two flats going off-road in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. And those tires were about $150.00 a piece to replace. The 5 spd. tranny needed to be replaced (for $1,000.00!) at 89,000 miles. And the radiator got clogged at 70K and need to be pulled and replaced. The SUV drove well enough when it wasn't breaking down. I just got tired with averaging 18 mpg. and putting up with all the incredibly expensive repairs.
Subarus are just like their old ad line--inexpensive and built to stay that way. Inexpensive does NOT mean cheap, either. I love the styling and luxury of our new Outback and am looking forward to at least a decade of great fun with this one!
iscotts: Montana? Too bad the "no daytime speed limit" is a goner.
Ross: haven't heard of any tranny durability issues, so leaving it in Park should be fine.
Mary: what's odd is that I had a retailer check if American Racing rims would fit on my Forester, and they said it would not. We've just entered...the Twilight Zone.
That's 4.7 square feet for the SMALLER moonroof. Holy Cow! Mine is 15"x30", a puny 3.1 square feet. A-HA! Mine tilts, though!
BTW, the Trooper had an update since '94, I forget exactly what year though. They *tend* to be reliable, but of course YMMV.
-juice
Silver Paint: I think clearcoat finishes have drastically reduced the amount of fade that used to occur. Silver may contain more "metal" especially since silver is usually "metallic" as well; this could account for more oxidizing of the paint from UV. One thing for sure is silver is the hardest color to get a good match on a repainted panel.
American Racing are pretty basic alloys, as far as I've seen, although they make some higher end stuff, too. My friend had them on an Accord that he bought new from a dealer. It had the plastic wheel covers on the lot, and part of his negotiation was that the dealer swap the wheels for alloys. The dealer put American Racing alloys on the car instead of the Honda alloys my friend expected to get (is anyone shocked by this?). He didn't complain too much because it was a lease and he knew he'd never buy the car. Mary: My advice is to keep them waxed well, especially prior to winter if you live in an area where salt is used; they tend to oxidize and pit after a few years.
Iscotts: Glad your bumper wasn't damaged by the overhead door. More importantly, make sure your 21 month year old baby never gets hurt by the door. Do this test: put a full roll of paper towels where the door will close and then close it. It should compress the roll somewhat, but then reverse without pinning the roll or squeezing it too severely. If it doesn't, you need to adjust the reversing mechanism. Don't underestimate the strength of that "wimpy screw-drive motor". A 1/2 horsepower motor can exert a lot of force. Since you mentioned "screw-drive" I'm assuming it's a Genie. You can also install an infra-red beam as an extra reversing safety feature if it doesn't already have one. This won't work with your car unless the wheels are in its line of sight, but it will most likely help with kids and pets.
Ross, the shifting in and out of Drive would likely cause more wear than leaving it alone.
Glenman, not to be a Devil's advocate (or Trooper's advocate), but a tranny needing a repair at 89,000 miles in a vehicle used off road shouldn't be considered short-lived. The radiator fluid clog was either a case of too-infrequent maintenance, contamination, or use of some second-rate slop that some shops pawn off as coolant/antifreeze. As far as condemning a vehicle's reliability based on number of flats: you are joking, right?
It's always a crap shoot no matter what car you get, my dealer has a 2000 or 2001 forester with a bad tranny, bad radiator, bad main seal, and it only has like 2500 miles on it.
Also $1000 is cheap for a transmission, FWD/AWD trannies are closer to $2000.
-mike
Drew
The other noise that is somewhat similar is the sound of the straight-cut planetary gear transmissions. That makes the whirring noise when they accelerate.
-Colin
It's built using Apple WebObjects which is an internet application server that can generate web-pages dynamically. It's running on a G4 w/Mac OS X Server 1.2
Ash
They do look like pretty basic alloys and the retailer that I brought it to agreed.
About them fitting, well they're on the car, whether the offset is right or not I wish I could say for sure but the tires are stock and they're not rubbing or anything. The americanracing.com site lists wheels for forester and forester s.
Do I really have to wax my wheels as well--uugh, hope I get around to all this.
Mary
-mike
Seeing as that's the only auto I've ever owned (5sp MX6, and OB right now) - it'll probably be my last.
ash
Not difficult although .. you do have to take
one muffler hanger backet loose and also disconnect a cannister that covers one bolt hole.
No cutting or anything w/ the factory hitch.
Recommend a helper or a small jack to lift the
hitch into place. I'm not a mechanic so I'm
sure you would have no problems ..
Good luck
Larry H
And baby is too small to be able to understand
Other auto owners say that at WOT the Subaru automatic is actually pretty smart about where and how firmly it shifts.
-Colin
(5spd RS, but had lots of GM 'glides & TH400s in drag cars)