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Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II



  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hugo: it could be a symptom of a different problem, not necessarily related to the engine. Just some possibilities:

    * low tire pressue
    * improper alignement, tire balance, or out of round tires
    * wrong tire size (are yours stock?)
    * brakes or parking brake sticking
    * faulty spark plug wires
    * you drive like THE CAT!

    I'd consider a 30k or 60k service, even if it's early. You can eliminate a lot of variables that way.

    I know it's not easy, but persist with your dealer (or find a better one) and give Patti a call to assist and perhaps offer ideas.

    Driving style certainly is the biggest factor. My best is nearly 30mpg, but my worst was 20.7, almost a 50% variation.

  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    I know that you have posted on Subaru boards for some years now (notably the vmag forum). I can't offer too much technical advice, but I'm sure you know that gas mileage is probably one of the most popular topics. There are just so many variables that determine m.p.g. (brand, regional formulations, altitude, driving style, and other things that juice mentioned). Personally, I tried about 6 different major brands of fuel before I found one to my liking.

    Being "in the club" doesn't have an affect on treatment by SoA. I received excellent customer service from Tom Salvino after I experienced about 26,000 miles of clutch and dealer problems. My case was opened before I started reading or posting on this forum. Things were resolved after I met with the District Service rep. and calmly expressed my problems.
    Like paisan suggested, maybe post more info so others can offer advice. I was able to gather information from the "i-club" and vmag to help in my dealing with the District rep. and SoA.
    Negative posts definately won't help.

    Good luck,
  • hciaffahciaffa Posts: 454
    Service has been sone to the forester,we have tried every major brand and octane of gas, tires are inflated to 4% over the door tag, they are balanced and in great condition, we drive normal no jack rabbit starts and highway speed limits are kept even when driving at 55 the mileage averaged at 18mpg highway. Juice I am as anal as they come to servicing my autos everything you mention was done, including changing all fluids to synthetic.
    Dennis: Grant you negative post won't help but it allows us to take our frustrations out especially when drop $24,000 for a car and would like a little help.
    Paisan: yes many auto manufacturers gi=ve there customers the same treatment but I really didn't expect Subaru to fall into the same catagory.
  • thecatthecat Posts: 535
    Okay, I've been very busy this week and haven't had time to do any posting .. but I've been reading !

    Juice, I just have one question. Which of us has a car in the body shop? Ahh .. let's see .. OH .. that would be YOU !!!

    Man, you gotta stay on your toes around here or people pick on you. One lap around the track .. or maybe that was 10 or 15 .. whatever, at Warp 6 and you think I drive that way all the time. Well, I don't. Only in other people's cars :)
    Guess now would be a bad time to ask to borrow the Miata for a Sunday drive .. huh?

    Loosh .. what's the story on the Rex? I've decided to lay low until about June and see how the supply is. Local dealer doesn't even want to talk about MSRP much less invoice + . Let the dust settle and we'll see what happens.

    HAPPY VALENTINES DAY TO ALL .. I assume Q and Lana will be enjoying lobster somewhere this evening.
    - hutch
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I dunno Hutch, Juice had some prize words for my driving as well... Perhaps it is Juice who doesn't know how to drive ;)

  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497

    There's also a current thread on the i-club about bad mileage.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Got me, Hutch!

    At least it wasn't my fault. Anyone else feel like they're driving around, surrounded by people that must've gotten their license over the phone?

    The Miata's passenger side door doesn't even open, so you could drive it but it would be alone!

    It's raining, though, so Lana will be taken to dinner by her main competitor for my attention - Sandy.

    Don't forget the flowers, guys.

  • miksmimiksmi Silver Spring, Maryland, USAPosts: 1,246
  • pattim3pattim3 Posts: 533
    I'm sorry you are not happy with our handling of your situation. One of the concerns we had when we started working with Edmunds was how to handle a situation when we could not satify a customer. It was a risk I felt okay with taking so, this is a bit of a challenge. I do not think that this forum is the appropriate place to "argue" about what was said or suggested. Our commitment to our customer's has nothing to do with who know's someone at Subaru. It has to do with trying to find resolution. I think if you read some of the other posted suggestions you will see some things that are similar to what Tom suggested. Our goal is to always try and offer good service, but sometimes we cannot because factors that do not involve the manufacturer get involved. Out of respect for each of you as customer's, I will not post "the other side" of issues. I hope you all understand.


  • 2ndwnd2ndwnd Posts: 145
    Hi gang, its been a little while I guess, been busy with other things. I'm still happily driving my 2000 Legacy L Wagon. Its appropriate that some of the recent discussion is concerning gas mileage, as that's what I came back to talk about. My news is on the positive side though.
    I just got back from a road trip from St. Louis to Savannah, 830 miles each way. Just me and my gear, didn't have to use A/C this time of year even in Georgia, so... For the first time ever I made it 400 miles on one tank! When I saw I was getting close, I started looking at the upcomming exits on my Triptik to make sure I had plenty of gas station options. I got lucky, there were three exits in a row with gas right near my 400 mile mark, so I pressed on. I pulled off the highway when the trip meter read 399 and had to drive past the Citgo half a mile and then back to officially pass the barrier. When I pulled up to the pump it read 400.6 and the needle had just started to touch the E line. I'm sure I could have gone quite a bit further. So anyway I filled up and then on that tank I was able to get 32 MPG, my best ever, and first time I hit the 30 mark.
    Otherwise, the Sube did fine, the drive was enjoyable, and the job in Savannah went pretty well too.
    The only thing that has changed since I was last here in respect to the car, is that it has developed some wind noise around the drivers window. Cycling the glass down and back up seems to get rid of most of it. I guess it has something to do with how the glass seats into the rubber when you close the door, as opposed to when it slides up into it when it already is closed. Nothing too traumatic, just a little annoying. Anyway, nice to see you all again, I'll try to stop by on a more regular basis.

    Dave B

    P.S. - One of my co-workers who flew to Savannah and rode around town with me a few times plans to talk to her husband about trading in his Malibu for a Subaru Wagon. She loved mine.
  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984

    duck breast, actually, with asparagus risotto. started off with kir royales, then into a 1985 Vieux Telegraphe Chateauneuf du Pape. Watched "Who is Killing the great Chefs of europe." Back to the kir royales for chocolate covered strawberries etc.

    sux about the mileage. did SoA take care of your tranny????


    go ninja on their a$$. Got any lawyer friends? Letterhead does wonders...

    And the poll still blows. 1972 Dadge Dart? Do they REALLY think Ray Moliozzi has nothing better to do than surf this place?
  • grahampetersgrahampeters AustraliaPosts: 1,785

    I thought that was an extremely intelligent post. If you work in a customer service environment, it is inevitable that some of those customer's aspirations are beyond reasonable levels. Conveying to those customers the message of what is reasonable is a very difficult task, particularly when the customer seeks to personalize their dis-satisfaction by blaming someone at the supplier.

    I work in the insurance industry where, contrary to most people's perceptions, the objective is a satisfied customer. No, it is not my job to cut the size of a claim, but to make sure that the right amount is paid, ensuring the customer is put back in the situation they were in before the incident. Of course, they must have bought enough insurance and covered the particular perils, but I am more likely to be criticized for underpaying than overpaying a claim. The vast majority of people are honest and reasonable, putting forward realistic expectations of how their claim should be handled. If an aspect is capable of multiple views, they, quite reasonably, will put forward the perspective which is best for them. Most times, they are correct but there may be areas where I take a different view and we may have to negotiate over some points. Almost always, an amicable compromise is reached to everyone's satisfaction.

    However, some people have entirely unrealistic ambitions, expecting, say, that their old battered furniture which has suffered a slight extra scratch, should be instantly replaced with new items of higher quality. For some of these people, an insurance claim is sort of like winning the lottery. Dealing with such customers is never easy as there is no way that they will ever be satisfied, but their concerns must be examined for merit.

    I am impressed at the way in which SoA has addressed the concerns of customers on this web site. It has been clear that there is no undue favouritism flowing from the fact that these customers are posting on Edmunds. After all, why should this site be any more persuasive than a bunch of folks discussing cars over a beer?

    This clearly reflects an overall Subaru corporate philosophy, which I have also been able to see displayed here in Australia and in the UK when I lived there. Subary clearly make a good product and are prepared to fix it if there is something wrong. After my prior experience with Mercedes, this is refreshing.

    As a purchaser of Subaru products, I expect warranty claims to be treated fairly but do not wish any customer's excessive aspirations for warranty claims treated softly. This would increase the warranty costs for Subaru which, in turn, would be passed on as an increased purchase price.

    I guess, most readers of this site will recognize the balance of your approach and congratulate you for it.


  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Posts: 1,676
    Thank you for your comments. One thing that I love about this board is that it allows people to express their feelings, both positive and negative and it allows us (as a manufacturer) to maintain a good understanding of customer wants and expectations. I want to be able to continue to participate so I thought it necessary to comment. Considering our recent fire situation, I can relate to your job. Some of my neighbor's were very difficult with their insurance carriers. Our experience has been favorable because, I think, we weren't asking for anything not covered by our policy.

    Have a wonderful day.

  • I have to weigh in concerning the posts about Subaru support. From everything I've read and heard, you won't get better support from other companies than you are already getting. Living in Canada, I have dealt with my dealer and SOC on several warranty items and have been very happy with the service received.

    Hugo, I really hope you get your problem resolved as these are great cars to own and fun to drive. Best of luck.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    2ndwnd: welcome back. You beat me to it - I've only hit 399. Didn't think about driving around the block!

    Made me think of something else that may improve mileage - remove all the excess weight. If you carry a bunch of stuff and weigh her down, it could affect mileage.

    Also check the idle speed and throttle assembly. My Miata's throttle cable was too tight when all the slack was taken up (gee, wonder who did that!) and I lost almost 3 mpg on that alone!

    Ever the romantic, Loosh. The wife got 1/2 dozen sweetheart roses, tickets to go see Spalding Gray (humorist on the subject of, what else, raising kids) in April, plus we watched "Save the Last Dance" and had a quick bite at, uh, Le Hamburgei du Hamletee.

    Graham: sorry to break it to you, but we ARE a bunch of folks talking over a beer! ;-)

  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Patti- I just wanted to reaffirm how much we appreciate your presence on this board. I'm convinced that you and SOA make an extremely conscientious effort to satisfy every customer. I know for a fact that your presence here has influenced several individuals to purchase a Subaru.

    Hugo- I can understand your frustration with your poor gas mileage and if I was in your shoes I'd be unhappy also. However, do you honestly think there's a manufacturer out there who would treat you any better? If you really do, take your future business to them.

    Due to all the variables involved beyond the manufacturer's control, none of them is going to allow themselves to be pinned down to a specific minimum acceptable gas mileage figure for a given model. Poor gas mileage is one of those problems that can be virtually impossible to diagnosis. Maybe you could let someone at the dealership drive your vehicle for an entire tank? That would at least eliminate your driving style as the cause.

    -Frank P.
  • kate5000kate5000 Posts: 1,271
    Actually, that _bad_ body shop that still did not release my Forester was recommended to me not by insurance but by Subaru dealership. Which reminds me an angry letter is due to that service manager, with photos of a butched body work on my car. They (dealership) can do their service there if they like, but no way an individual customer like me should deal with such bad workmanship and attitude. On contrary, my husband used the insurance recommended shop when he had a fender-bender in his Accord. That shop did a pretty good job on his car, and everything was nice and quick. I guess it depends.

    My insurance tells me they're sending their estimator to the shop, to check on my Forester. I also plan to start a motion for removing that shop from the State Farm's and AAA's list of approved facilities. But to be honest, I'd rather be skiing in the Sierras now than writing all those letters... my old Loyale is only FWD, and I'm really longing for the AWD these days.
  • armac13armac13 Posts: 1,129
    thanks for sending the snow, but your aim needs improvement. Blizzard conditions 40 km to the east, snow on Vancouver Island, not a flake in Vancouver. Rats!

  • kate5000kate5000 Posts: 1,271
    I'd second Frank P's opinion that Patti's presence on this board has tremendous positive influence. Ford, Chrysler, Honda or Toyota -- they all are very difficult to deal with. SoA is actually on a better side.

    Hugo, I also experienced a not-so-good Subaru in my life. In 1993 we bought a second Loyale, because we liked our Loyale'92 so much. Well, that Loyale'93 somehow never was as good as our 1992 model. There was something strange with the auto transmission shifts, but which was hard to reproduce and prove to the service dept. There was a serious engine problem at 45K, fortunately covered by the powertrain warranty, gas mileage was much lower than in Loyale'92, a lot of body squeaks and rattles developed. We sold it in 1997 and bought a new Accord instead. Guess what? Accord squeaks and rattles like hell now, and there were already a few repairs done under warranty. Now we regret we sold that Loyale so soon (but we got 100K mi our of it anyway).

    I'd suggest: if you're so unhappy, spiff up your Forester and trade it in for a car which feels better to you (dare I to recommend another Forester :-). I hear you can get a good money for your Forester these days.

    You know how much I love and miss my poor half-wrecked Forester. However, if it does not drive and feel the same as prior to the accident, and there is no fix in sight, I'll trade it in for a new Forester. It will be a financial loss, but I like to enjoy my car no suffer in it.
  • dannykadannyka Posts: 115
    Put me down squarely on the side of well treated and satisfied customers. I had a problem with my Outback's alternator and SOA took very good care of me. Thanks to Deneen (sp?), I didn't even have to bother Patti about it. I did make an extra call after 2 weeks to see what was happening, but all my calls were handled courteously and professionally. I guess I could've gotten impatient (read:upset) about how long it was taking to resolve my issue, but I realized that the level of service that SOA offers takes time and I applaud them for that. Anyway, I'm now waiting for my next Subaru, which should be here about mid-March. (Pat, I feel your pain! :-)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Kate: way to hang in there. I'm proud of you! :-)

    Hugo: she makes a good point - Forester resale is good since there are few out there. What about a WRX wagon?

    Some how I think 227hp will make you forget to even track your mileage!

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    I have a question for Hugo, if he is still following the discussion. I read your latest two posts but didn't attempt to research anything you might have previously said.

    You mention that you've tried various brands and octanes of fuel. Good idea, a necessary step when troubleshooting bad mileage.

    The fuel consumption CAN be traced if a servicer looks hard enough. Think about it-- the Subaru scan tool hooked up to a running engine can tell them throttle position, injector duty cycle, oxygen sensor feedback, MAP and/or MAF sensor voltage, cam angle position. That is EVERYTHING that determines how much fuel is being delivered EXCEPT for fuel pressure. (Could the fuel pressure regulator be set too high? Maybe.)

    The other interesting thing is the detonation. Now THAT is something that must be diagnosed and addressed. Excessive fuel consumption and detonation seem to be at odds, so surely there is something seriously wrong with the ignition and / or fuel delivery of this vehicle that could be detected.

    By the way, the Scan Tool knows when the knock sensor finds detonation too. If the knock sensor is working but nothing is showing up on the tool, then it isn't detonation.

  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Hugo: Sorry to hear about your problems. I can see how your situation can be frustrating. I've had several repairs done to my Forester before Patti joined the Crew. One of the biggest advantages of having Patti here with us is that she'll help expedite the proccess by putting you directly in touch with the right people. Sometimes it's a slow process getting your concerns voiced through 'conventional' methods. However, once you're talking the right people, the differences end there. When I met with the District Technical Manager last week, it was no different from when I met with him two years ago. Mike was very pleasant and addressed my concerns. I hope your situation gets resolved to your satisfaction.

    Patti: I don't think we can tell you enough times how cool it is that you're on board. It makes a huge difference to me that there's someone from Subaru listening and trying to help out -- that's how you win customer loyatly.

  • hciaffahciaffa Posts: 454
    Sorry if I disturbed all of you about my rantings on our Forester but if you knew the problems we have gone through with this vehicle you might feel a little compassion. For those who have listed suggestions they have all been tried. This Forester has had every test done to it buy the dealer. Fuel pump pressure, computer readout, reprogram the ECU's they have taken it for test drives and kept it for testing but no one knows why it gets the mileage it does and why the pinging happens. As I mentioned we are not heavy footed drivers. Maybe I feel a little fustrated but as I mentioned that if you spent the money to buy a new vehicle as a treat especially after putting your kids through collage and it turns out that it has problems and no one can help any further, I think you all would feel the same. I know I would be gloating if my Forester was just as perfect as you all write about and the I would do the same.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    On a similar note, take a quick sniff of the exhaust. You can tell if it's running rich.

    I've gotten good at this. I can tell the brand and octane of gas! Just kidding - maybe I've inhaled a bit too many exhaust fumes!

    A thought, though. Wouldn't Hugo get a CEL if anything was out of spec?

    Another - is the timing adjustable? I don't think so, but if it is and it's pinging, retarding the timing a little could help.

    Hugo: Sandy isn't perfect. Slap the WRX engine under the hood and she would be! :-)

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    Hugo, all dealers are not the same. Has only one attempted diagnosis of your Forester?

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    ...will make you feel better. From Edmunds' long-term fleet, here are the mpg averages for the only Forester competitors they are currently testing:

    Mazda Tribute: 14.3 (OUCH!)
    Nissan XTerra: 16.2

    I know that are V6s, but the Forester outruns the XTerra fairly easily. That would put your mpg-per-smile-expectation at about 15mpg.

    Hope you feel better. At least I do!

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I know I have tried a number of different dealers with various amounts of success... My first dealer swore up and down that there wasn't a problem and that there wasn't anything that could be done. Finally when I got to the 3rd dealer they knew of the problem and straightened it out quickly.

  • kwelsskwelss Posts: 21

    Should you manage to get your Forester out of body-shop captivity at the Bad Place, I can recommend the Parkway Body Shop on Village Parkway in Dublin as an alternative. That's not too far from your home turf, is it?

    CSAA sent me there after a red-light runner broadsided my Civic, and I was really pleased with the work they did. My Honda suffered a *lot* of damage at 90K miles (thank goodness no one in the car was hurt!). The repairs were fast and of good quality, and they use OEM parts. I've put another 50,000 miles on my car since the accident, and haven't noticed any problems. No squeaks, rattles, blistering paint, etc.

    Karin in California, who brought her new Forester to work today, and has been getting lots of oohs and aaahs from co-workers. I've lent my keys out for two test-drives already!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Current owners make the best salespeople.

    I've "sold" about 4 soobs, minimum. Patti - any luck with that commission program? ;-)

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