Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

dino001 · March 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:

28firefighter said:
I admire what Tesla has done and is aiming to do. However I find Elon Musk's penchant for lying (or exaggerating or bending the truth) leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. I'll believe all of the things in the pipeline with Tesla when I see them going to market.
Elon is a super-salesman. So it's wise to believe as much as what any super salesman will tell you---there will be an artful blend of fact and fiction.

This would be OK if not for the fact that he is a CEO of publicly traded company subject all SEC regulations regarding statements from company officers material to company's condition, actions and predictions. There are legal ways to tell a bullish story of what might be possible, what is the goal and what is the fact and what is the wish. In Elon's there is no distinction and he gets away with that, because he is in pursuit of "good".

dino001 · March 2019

stickguy said:
the Kona has gotten very positive reviews I think. With respectable range.

Musk? I can see dropping stores, if, as I have wondered, he really does plan to sell off the car making to some other company that already makes cars, and keep the battery/infrastructure stuff to make money off of.

Actually, I heard you need even more personalized sales staff and consulting service when you're buying the "solar" stuff for your home. Unless we're talking about clicking "call me" and then potential sales conversation starting.

28firefighter · March 2019

dino001 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

28firefighter said:
I admire what Tesla has done and is aiming to do. However I find Elon Musk's penchant for lying (or exaggerating or bending the truth) leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. I'll believe all of the things in the pipeline with Tesla when I see them going to market.
Elon is a super-salesman. So it's wise to believe as much as what any super salesman will tell you---there will be an artful blend of fact and fiction.
This would be OK if not for the fact that he is a CEO of publicly traded company subject all SEC regulations regarding statements from company officers material to company's condition, actions and predictions. There are legal ways to tell a bullish story of what might be possible, what is the goal and what is the fact and what is the wish. In Elon's there is no distinction and he gets away with that, because he is in pursuit of "good".

This. So much this.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

I don't know that 300 mile range is necessary for a fundamentally "city car", or short commute car. The Bolt fits that role very well for a lot less cash than a Tesla 3, but it doesn't hold up as well to long-range cruising day by day.

I remember I said years ago that the "sweet spot" for EVs was going to be 300 miles and under $30K. I still feel that way--and no EV is there....yet.

suydam · March 2019

What’s the new Leaf plus going to sell for?

28firefighter · March 2019

Upper 30s, I believe.

explorerx4 · March 2019

I think one big hurdle for EV's is charging time.
Not 75 miles in 5 minutes, but a recharge from a pretty much drained battery.
I will say that I'm not a leisurely road trip person, if I fill up it shouldn't take more that a few minutes.
I want to get where I'm going.
Another thing, I don't want to be responsible for the infrastructure needed to fuel up my vehicle.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

Says here: "Nissan hasn’t yet announced pricing or on-sale date for the upgraded Leaf Plus, but it seems likely to come in somewhere around the same magical $37,500 threshold as competitors. That gets customers down to $30,000 after the federal tax break, at least until Nissan hits the 200,000 cumulative sales that will trigger a phase-out of the tax credit"

Elon says you can buy a Tesla 3 for $35,000 but it will cost you $42,900.

Don't ask me how that works, ask him!

suydam · March 2019

So the Leaf might hit that sweet spo of 300 miles and 30k. Another one to look at. After my experience with the Volt, charging time is a non issue. You just learn a different system and it becomes second nature after awhile. Finding a charging station away from home is still an issue.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

I don't think the Leaf Plus can make 300, no...maybe with some luck and driver manipulation.

Electrify America is making good progress on charging stations close to major cross country routes. I think they're up to 500 now, or will be soon. These will have the fast-charge protocol that the Leaf uses.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

qbrozen said:

tyguy said:

I recommend google searching for images of the truck in testing. I'll just leave it at that.

I'm finding it hard to swallow, to be honest. I'll reserve judgement until I see it functioning with a fully-loaded trailer.

Tesla been road testing them for almost a year now and there are videos of the trucks being followed while they drive between the battery factory in Nevada and assembly shop in California delivering batteries. Seems like a good test bed for weight and mountain handling.

I'm curious why people would fight this concept (not saying you qbrozen)? Seems like people actually want EV trucks to fail but I don't get that mindset. Diesel trucks will burn diesel their whole useful life and add air pollution. EV will become more and more sustainable as the grid changes. Also, wouldn't you love to have the semi in front of you accelerate on the on-ramp nearly as fast as you can?

suydam · March 2019

True. Over 200 though which would work fine — as long as there is a charging station easily available. It’s been pretty hit or miss for us so far with the Volt, and we live in California where it should be easier. When it works it’s grest. For us now, when it doesn’t,there’s the gas engine fallback.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
Says here: "Nissan hasn’t yet announced pricing or on-sale date for the upgraded Leaf Plus, but it seems likely to come in somewhere around the same magical $37,500 threshold as competitors. That gets customers down to $30,000 after the federal tax break, at least until Nissan hits the 200,000 cumulative sales that will trigger a phase-out of the tax credit"

Elon says you can buy a Tesla 3 for $35,000 but it will cost you $42,900. Don't ask me how that works, ask him!

Hey Shifty. Not sure I follow the $42,900. With all the changes recently I wasn't sure, so I just went to order one and came up with $35,000 + $1,200 delivery. Are you thinking of an upgraded version maybe?

[Deleted User] · March 2019

suydam said:
So the Leaf might hit that sweet spo of 300 miles and 30k. Another one to look at. After my experience with the Volt, charging time is a non issue. You just learn a different system and it becomes second nature after awhile. Finding a charging station away from home is still an issue.

Agreed it becomes second nature. We eliminated the Leaf because it's nowhere near 300 miles, and it STILL doesn't use liquid battery management. That situation bit Nissan hard in the last generation and I won't buy an EV without it. Good battery management is key to long life.

abacomike · March 2019

Currently watching my grandson’s college baseball team on streaming video through the colle site. They broadcast 85% of their home and away games.

abacomike · March 2019

Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem. They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning. If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.

imidazol97 · March 2019

abacomike said:
Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem. They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning. If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.

Didn't they do that the last time they had it. Wouldn't they have caught a "programming error" then?
Just sayin'.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Says here: "Nissan hasn’t yet announced pricing or on-sale date for the upgraded Leaf Plus, but it seems likely to come in somewhere around the same magical $37,500 threshold as competitors. That gets customers down to $30,000 after the federal tax break, at least until Nissan hits the 200,000 cumulative sales that will trigger a phase-out of the tax credit"

Elon says you can buy a Tesla 3 for $35,000 but it will cost you $42,900. Don't ask me how that works, ask him!

Hey Shifty. Not sure I follow the $42,900. With all the changes recently I wasn't sure, so I just went to order one and came up with $35,000 + $1,200 delivery. Are you thinking of an upgraded version maybe?

I haven't yet found anyone who got one at that price.

Sure people are skeptical about anything Tesla says, with good reason. But as they say, seein' is believin', so I'm lookin'.

As for EV trucks--this remains to be seen. Trucks are all about CARGO WEIGHT. If they can't carry something heavy enough, far enough, nobody is going to buy them. And batteries are heavy. The fact that these trucks are electric doesn't translate to truckers like it does to upwardly mobile white collar workers. Trucking companies don't want "sexy", They want "payload"---except perhaps to order a few from Tesla to showboat them at corporate HQ and paste their logos on them.

sda · March 2019

The 06 Acura TL that my SIL gave us is now our care. She bought it new and has taken good care of it cosmetically and mechanically. Our daughter is beside herself with excitement, though, we still have some more supervisory driving with her before we hand over the keys and allow her to drive to school. She is aggravated with us saying we are over protective and her friend's parent's allow.....sorry, our call. The car drives fantastic, no way does it feel 13 years old with 154000 miles. Its smooth, energetic, quiet, rattle free, and tracks perfectly straight. The exterior is very nice with a few rock pecks on the hood, and no parking dings. Unfortunately the interior, while extremely clean is showing typical issues that seem to affect these cars. The dash has cracked in two places over the passenger air bag (this happened in the last 6 months), the headliner is starting to separate in a few places (looks like 3"x3" bubbles in a few places) and the leather looks like it is cracking but not torn even in the back seat that was rarely used. I read in Acurazine these are all too common, and even with regular care, it still happens. Regardless, we are delighted with it.

stickguy · March 2019

was chatting with my father earlier. Apparently he was at the Nissan dealer with his Sentra (probably around a 2010? But not very high miles) and they said it needed "some stuff". So instead, he went home with a new one (another Sentra). And of all things, he leased it. I really, really don't want to see the paperwork on this one (and of course, he did not bother to call me before he did it to discuss financial aspects). Nothing I can do about it now, so while I assume he got hosed, I may never know how bad.

Oh, he is now 90. He mentioned on occasion about getting a new one (though he would facetiously say BMW), and I said it probably was not needed at this point. Though that would have probably been the first team he actually listened to anybody!

he does like it though. More comfortable, better seats, quieter. And he loves the BU camera. Though he did say that the screen and all the gadgets might be beyond him. I can't imagine what he would have done with something fancy like a BMW or MB like Mikes!

oldfarmer50 · March 2019

tyguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:
I bought a jar of pickles on Friday at Sobeys (Canadian supermarket chain Driver would be familiar with), their house brand.

When I got home and was putting them on the shelf I noticed they are made in India.

I am unsure if I actually want to try them now.

Amazing that it is cheaper to make them there and ship them all the way here than it is to get them from a packer in Ontario or the USA.
Vinegar kills most any germ. I use it as weed killer too.
OF, my wife and I are very interested in less toxic gardening. Do you use a straight vinegar, or do you mix it with anything? And do you prefer any type of vinegar in particular? I appreciate any counsel you an provide.

Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

oldfarmer50 · March 2019

driver100 said:

henryn said:
If you do get the urge to buy an OBD II scanner, you can get a very useful one for quite cheap these days. Look on Amazon or Ebay for an OBD II plug in device which will send the codes via bluetooth (wireless) to your smart phone. The plug in device will set you back $10 or $12, and a good app for your smartphone, about $5.
Henryn...if I buy an OBD II Scanner it sounds like I would have to get a Smart phone and even if I know the codes...what will I do then...take it to the garage? btw, this is the first time this has happened in over 30 years.

Knowing the code can save you $$$$$ when your mechanic tells you that your Johnson rod is broken but you know it’s a gas cap.

stickguy · March 2019

sda said:

The 06 Acura TL that my SIL gave us is now our care. She bought it new and has taken good care of it cosmetically and mechanically. Our daughter is beside herself with excitement, though, we still have some more supervisory driving with her before we hand over the keys and allow her to drive to school. She is aggravated with us saying we are over protective and her friend's parent's allow.....sorry, our call. The car drives fantastic, no way does it feel 13 years old with 154000 miles. Its smooth, energetic, quiet, rattle free, and tracks perfectly straight. The exterior is very nice with a few rock pecks on the hood, and no parking dings. Unfortunately the interior, while extremely clean is showing typical issues that seem to affect these cars. The dash has cracked in two places over the passenger air bag (this happened in the last 6 months), the headliner is starting to separate in a few places (looks like 3"x3" bubbles in a few places) and the leather looks like it is cracking but not torn even in the back seat that was rarely used. I read in Acurazine these are all too common, and even with regular care, it still happens. Regardless, we are delighted with it.

sounds like our situation about 10 years ago. My sister bought a 2000 TL new in 1999, and did a lot of commuting so by the end of 2008 it had about 140K on it, and she decided to get a new 2nd gen TSX, I bought the TL from her for what the Acura dealer offered as a trade. My son used it for for the 2nd half of senior year of HS, then took it to college for 3 years (it stayed home freshman year with me), then he used it for about 9 months after graduation until he leased a Jetta. I kept it about 4 more months then finally sold it since I did not need 2 cars. Had about 172K on it, and I got more than I paid for it!

was a great car for him. interior was great, body was a bit beat up (scratches and nicks from life!) but had been always over maintained by the dealer (whatever they said, she did). Didn't really have any issues until we had it about 4 years, when a couple of things failed in quick succession. But still ran like new at 172K miles.

oldfarmer50 · March 2019

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Next time buy a Chevy.
I have never had a check engine light on my 2014 Malibu. Same for the 2008 Cobalt.
Just sayin'.
Refinement and precision engineering makes the engine more sensitive......just saying

I have never booted a car like I did this time. I was on a gravel parking lot, and I had to turn right onto a highway with a speed limit of 60mph....but most are driving 80, and they are coming around a bend. I get on when it is clear, but just at that moment a pack of cars are in view, about 1/2 to 3/4s of a football field away....I instantly floored it. Not only that, I had to move ahead and move over the left lane into the left turning lane which was about 200 more yards........the car behaved beautifully, but, it was just a little too much for the engine...maybe sucked in too much air.

I think the last time a check engine light came on was my 67 Ford.

You probably loosened all the carbon built up from your old lady driving style and it clogged something.

oldfarmer50 · March 2019

dino001 said:
Now Tesla decides to keep the stores open. It clearly looks like Musk is completely losing his marbles. The "genius strategy" is now whatever pops into his head.

They couldn’t get out of their leases. They’ll raise the price 3% to cover the $billion for rent.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Says here: "Nissan hasn’t yet announced pricing or on-sale date for the upgraded Leaf Plus, but it seems likely to come in somewhere around the same magical $37,500 threshold as competitors. That gets customers down to $30,000 after the federal tax break, at least until Nissan hits the 200,000 cumulative sales that will trigger a phase-out of the tax credit"

Elon says you can buy a Tesla 3 for $35,000 but it will cost you $42,900. Don't ask me how that works, ask him!

Hey Shifty. Not sure I follow the $42,900. With all the changes recently I wasn't sure, so I just went to order one and came up with $35,000 + $1,200 delivery. Are you thinking of an upgraded version maybe?

I haven't yet found anyone who got one at that price.

Sure people are skeptical about anything Tesla says, with good reason. But as they say, seein' is believin', so I'm lookin'.

As for EV trucks--this remains to be seen. Trucks are all about CARGO WEIGHT. If they can't carry something heavy enough, far enough, nobody is going to buy them. And batteries are heavy. The fact that these trucks are electric doesn't translate to truckers like it does to upwardly mobile white collar workers. Trucking companies don't want "sexy", They want "payload"---except perhaps to order a few from Tesla to showboat them at corporate HQ and paste their logos on them.

Regarding cargo weight, can you point to one piece of data that even suggests that this isn't the case for the Tesla semis that have been on the road testing with loads over the Sierras? You're arguing the wrong points. Electric excels at torque and hence weight. You should be questioning where these trucks will charge their very large batteries, which needs new infrastructure.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

tyguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:
I bought a jar of pickles on Friday at Sobeys (Canadian supermarket chain Driver would be familiar with), their house brand.

When I got home and was putting them on the shelf I noticed they are made in India.

I am unsure if I actually want to try them now.

Amazing that it is cheaper to make them there and ship them all the way here than it is to get them from a packer in Ontario or the USA.
Vinegar kills most any germ. I use it as weed killer too.
OF, my wife and I are very interested in less toxic gardening. Do you use a straight vinegar, or do you mix it with anything? And do you prefer any type of vinegar in particular? I appreciate any counsel you an provide.
Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

Thanks OF. Appreciate the advice.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

sda said:

The 06 Acura TL that my SIL gave us is now our care. She bought it new and has taken good care of it cosmetically and mechanically. Our daughter is beside herself with excitement, though, we still have some more supervisory driving with her before we hand over the keys and allow her to drive to school. She is aggravated with us saying we are over protective and her friend's parent's allow.....sorry, our call. The car drives fantastic, no way does it feel 13 years old with 154000 miles. Its smooth, energetic, quiet, rattle free, and tracks perfectly straight. The exterior is very nice with a few rock pecks on the hood, and no parking dings. Unfortunately the interior, while extremely clean is showing typical issues that seem to affect these cars. The dash has cracked in two places over the passenger air bag (this happened in the last 6 months), the headliner is starting to separate in a few places (looks like 3"x3" bubbles in a few places) and the leather looks like it is cracking but not torn even in the back seat that was rarely used. I read in Acurazine these are all too common, and even with regular care, it still happens. Regardless, we are delighted with it.

Looks terrific, sda. They've taken great care of the paint and body.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Says here: "Nissan hasn’t yet announced pricing or on-sale date for the upgraded Leaf Plus, but it seems likely to come in somewhere around the same magical $37,500 threshold as competitors. That gets customers down to $30,000 after the federal tax break, at least until Nissan hits the 200,000 cumulative sales that will trigger a phase-out of the tax credit"

Elon says you can buy a Tesla 3 for $35,000 but it will cost you $42,900. Don't ask me how that works, ask him!

Hey Shifty. Not sure I follow the $42,900. With all the changes recently I wasn't sure, so I just went to order one and came up with $35,000 + $1,200 delivery. Are you thinking of an upgraded version maybe?

I haven't yet found anyone who got one at that price.

That might be because the $35k smaller battery version was just released and they have an estimated 6-week build time. Go to the configurator and build one. The price is the price. They don't jack the price at delivery just cause.

[Deleted User] · March 2019

Hey guys. Too much negativity in here and the world is already filled with enough of that to voluntarily introduce more. I'm going to take a break, but wish you all the best. Happy motoring.

Michael, send me an email if you want to do a Colorado get-together.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

dino001 said:

stickguy said:
the Kona has gotten very positive reviews I think. With respectable range.

Musk? I can see dropping stores, if, as I have wondered, he really does plan to sell off the car making to some other company that already makes cars, and keep the battery/infrastructure stuff to make money off of.
Actually, I heard you need even more personalized sales staff and consulting service when you're buying the "solar" stuff for your home. Unless we're talking about clicking "call me" and then potential sales conversation starting.

You also need store staff to assist people who want financing. It's 10X harder to do that online than in person, and financing is a pot of gold for any automaker.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Says here: "Nissan hasn’t yet announced pricing or on-sale date for the upgraded Leaf Plus, but it seems likely to come in somewhere around the same magical $37,500 threshold as competitors. That gets customers down to $30,000 after the federal tax break, at least until Nissan hits the 200,000 cumulative sales that will trigger a phase-out of the tax credit"

Elon says you can buy a Tesla 3 for $35,000 but it will cost you $42,900. Don't ask me how that works, ask him!

Hey Shifty. Not sure I follow the $42,900. With all the changes recently I wasn't sure, so I just went to order one and came up with $35,000 + $1,200 delivery. Are you thinking of an upgraded version maybe?

I haven't yet found anyone who got one at that price.

That might be because the $35k smaller battery version was just released and they have an estimated 6-week build time. Go to the configurator and build one. The price is the price. They don't jack the price at delivery just cause.

I'm the skeptical type. When I see them delivered, into a human being's hands, for $35,000 + t&l, then count me in.

The site also includes the California EV rebate, which some buyers won't get. The delivery time is "estimated" at 8 weeks. A $2,500 deposit is mandatory. Doc + Destination charge $1,200. Basic options only. Autopilot, add $3000. Self-Driving Capability--add $5000 on top of the $3000. Est. loan payment, $5K down, 72 months, $485/month.

dino001 · March 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:
Now Tesla decides to keep the stores open. It clearly looks like Musk is completely losing his marbles. The "genius strategy" is now whatever pops into his head.

They couldn’t get out of their leases. They’ll raise the price 3% to cover the $billion for rent.

Are you telling me that a multibillion dollar corporation makes an announcement BEFORE it does actual research about its financial consequences? What else did they announce this way?

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

Wall St. didn't like the announcement either. Musk got a LOT of push-back on this.

driver100 · March 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
I don't know that 300 mile range is necessary for a fundamentally "city car", or short commute car. The Bolt fits that role very well for a lot less cash than a Tesla 3, but it doesn't hold up as well to long-range cruising day by day.

I remember I said years ago that the "sweet spot" for EVs was going to be 300 miles and under $30K. I still feel that way--and no EV is there....yet.

If I pay $30k or more for a car....I want to be able to use it to go on trips too.......I know, crazy, but that is just me.

driver100 · March 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Next time buy a Chevy.
I have never had a check engine light on my 2014 Malibu. Same for the 2008 Cobalt.
Just sayin'.
Refinement and precision engineering makes the engine more sensitive......just saying

I have never booted a car like I did this time. I was on a gravel parking lot, and I had to turn right onto a highway with a speed limit of 60mph....but most are driving 80, and they are coming around a bend. I get on when it is clear, but just at that moment a pack of cars are in view, about 1/2 to 3/4s of a football field away....I instantly floored it. Not only that, I had to move ahead and move over the left lane into the left turning lane which was about 200 more yards........the car behaved beautifully, but, it was just a little too much for the engine...maybe sucked in too much air.

I think the last time a check engine light came on was my 67 Ford.
You probably loosened all the carbon built up from your old lady driving style and it clogged something.

lol...but, probably exactly right!

andres3 · March 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
I hate winter.

just had an interesting piece on the local news. Apparently Volvo will be implementing governers on all their cars next year, capping them at 112. Kinda defeats the purpose of the Polestar tune models! Pretty sure that will be plenty for me, though might hurt sales in Germany.

nothing to do with economy. It is for safety. Though if you are already over 110, what the heck, might as well keep going!
I bet a lot of cars have speed limiters on them but it’s not advertised. I think my Mustang is limited to something like 155 while the old V6 was topped at 105. I suspect that most cars become unstable at speeds over 100 without aero mods.

Even 80's Honda's were pretty stable at 100 MPH, without aero mods.

We are not talking about streets with 90 degree turns here,people go 100 where there is plenty of straight or nearly straight tarmac.

Even the Neon was OK at 100 MPH. For instance, when the head gaskets were bad, and the coolant low because of the leakage, the air flow would keep the engine from overheating.

28firefighter · March 2019

tyguy said:

Hey guys. Too much negativity in here and the world is already filled with enough of that to voluntarily introduce more. I'm going to take a break, but wish you all the best. Happy motoring. Michael, send me an email if you want to do a Colorado get-together.

Sorry to hear this. My impression is that many of us are bought off on what Tesla is trying to accomplish, but just don’t agree with how he approaches business generally. None of this is a criticism targeted at you, your beliefs, or your own Tesla ownership. At least not in my view.

Only good old things come from the competition getting stronger.

Best wishes to you, @tyguy.

fintail · March 2019

I find the emotion regarding Tesla to be very interesting. They say people don't care about cars, but that car brings out more thoughts than maybe any other mainstream brand. I actually like the 3 more than the others, at least on the outside. I think the X is the worst way possible to spend its MSRP.

IMO, the company is helping progress, but its leader is an unpleasant piece of work and should face more accountability for his mouth.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2019

Reminds me in some ways of Preston Tucker--great at marketing, great salesman....but....really ticked off a lot of powerful people. It's a dangerous game for a CEO--pretty "ballsy" in a way, but also, as you say, somewhat reckless. Musk certainly knows how to drive people ruthlessly to get things done, but perhaps lacks Steve Jobs vision and acuity for what's going on around him. I don't suppose either of them is /was particularly likable, but highly successful and driven people rarely are.

abacomike · March 2019

imidazol97 said:

Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem. They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning. If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.
Didn't they do that the last time they had it. Wouldn't they have caught a "programming error" then? Just sayin'.

I don’t know all the specifics yet, but I agree with your comment. The shop foreman was on the three-man team that supposedly were in contact with their US operations and port of entry in Georgia trying to figure out the cause of the sunroof popping up and then retracting before it could slide back.

I will know more tomorrow when I speak with them when I pick up the car.

Thanks for your concern.

abacomike · March 2019

tyguy said:

Hey guys. Too much negativity in here and the world is already filled with enough of that to voluntarily introduce more. I'm going to take a break, but wish you all the best. Happy motoring. Michael, send me an email if you want to do a Colorado get-together.

tyguy, when people express their opinions on this thread of Edmunds forums, emotions are expressed along with experiences. I usually just “scroll” passed posts that get overly negative or emotional, or both. I know you are the kind of guy who is devoted to improving the environment based on your job and your commitment to EV’s.

Negativity is usually the product of overly emotional investments in opinionizing. I personally like you and your contributions to this posting board. I am going to miss your input and feedback - but take a day or two to consider the cause of your frustration with some of our posters emotional opinions - you are an attribute I would hate losing here.

andres3 · March 2019

abacomike said:

ruking1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:
By CA traffic laws, the Honda has the right of way on the Jeep’s right lane merging/disappearing. But on secondary considerations, fault (academically ) is 30-50% the Jeep’s. Normally it would be the Jeep’s fault.
NY law says the same but what’s the point if you get wrecked or killed? Maybe Florida has to say no one has right of way because of all the insurance fraud.
Actually there are a lot of points. But the video does not/seems not to even approach the fear level in the question. In CA ( I suspect FL also) fully 25% of drivers are either not or under insured.

Having said that, if one plans to drive in AZ, NM, TX, LA, FL, etc. familiarization with each/the states laws are prudent.

I don’t know if your statement that fully 25% of drivers are either uninsured or underinsured in Florida is factual, but Florida’s minimum insurance requirements include $10,000 PIP (Personal Injury Protection), $10,000 property damage and $20,000 liability coverage. That’s why I have Unisured/Underinsured motorist protection ($100,000/$300,000). Insurance companies in the State of Florida will not write policies without State minimum coverages.

I have no doubt that 25% of Florida drivers are underinsured using what is considered reasonable levels of coverages, but if they carry State required limits, they are not considered underinsured.

The cost of automobile insurance here in South Florida is awful - I pay $2250 a year for my insurance. That’s why there are many (not most) drivers who do not have insurance because they can’t afford it!

Uninsured drivers can't afford it because they usually have abysmal driving records, hence why people are often "hit" and "damaged" by uninsured drivers. But really, they are just choosing luxuries like cell phones, cable TV, high speed internet over insurance.

andres3 · March 2019

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
No, as I stated, they did not hypermile. This is based on normal driving, under very good conditions for an EV.

The Kias are certainly CUV-ish, and besides, the Tesla Model X is not a very good product, turns out.
What I need is storage, not CUV styling. Around 35 cu ft in the back with the back seats up. I'm not a fan of the X, either. I hate the rear doors and the overall styling.

Sorry, but the Bolt just can't hit 300 miles without non-typical driving conditions. Not because it's a bad car or anything, but because the battery is too small. Do they have an energy graph and average speed? It's like someone with a Ford Explorer getting 40 MPG, and then you find out the drove it the entire way downhill with wind at their back and turned off the motor during the straightaway sections.
I can assure you once again that the Bolt was not driven under hypermiling. This is an actual real world result.

Conditions were close to ideal with temperature reading from 50 to 60-ish degrees. 100 or so of the miles were on the highway @ 50-60 mph, with the remaining 200 miles being in city driving. Battery was fully depleted at the end of the test.

Here is a video report if you're interested:

https://insideevs.com/driving-300-miles-single-charge-chevrolet-bolt-video/

Between 50 and 60 degrees.....so real world conditions if you don't need air conditioning or heat...or get stuck in a traffic jam. Where can I be sure to find those conditions 24/7?

Also 50 to 60 MPH is ridiculously slow for a 100 mile trip. Let's be real here. Maybe it was tested on Mars and the lower gravity helped.

andres3 · March 2019

driver100 said:
Apparently 25% of accidents in the Tampa area are hit and runs.
Of 690 hit and runs that went to a trial, only 30% were found guilty.
A lot of hit and runs are DUIs and/or uninsured drivers.
Penalties should be much greater than they are.
25% of accidents in Tampa area are Hit & Runs

On this we 100% agree. Hit & Run is treated as some kind of petty joke by law enforcement, when it should be a 10-year minimum sentence.

Where we might differ is that I think 99% of the effort that goes into speed enforcement would be better directly allocated to enforcing hit & runs.

andres3 · March 2019

Regarding Volvo's 112 top speed limiter, I think it is a low IQ move.

First, they'd probably be better off copying an early 80's American car speedometer that tops out at 80 MPH.

Second, even economy cars can top 112 MPH these days, it should have been at least 118 MPH.

What if the speed limit is raised to 115 MPH?

They should just project an image of a wagging finger of disapproval onto the dashboard when you exceed 112 MPH. Maybe in the heads-up display. Maybe have the radio display read "speed kills" instead of the programming station you are tuned to.

qbrozen · March 2019

tyguy said:

I recommend google searching for images of the truck in testing. I'll just leave it at that.
I'm finding it hard to swallow, to be honest. I'll reserve judgement until I see it functioning with a fully-loaded trailer.
Tesla been road testing them for almost a year now and there are videos of the trucks being followed while they drive between the battery factory in Nevada and assembly shop in California delivering batteries. Seems like a good test bed for weight and mountain handling. I'm curious why people would fight this concept (not saying you qbrozen)? Seems like people actually want EV trucks to fail but I don't get that mindset. Diesel trucks will burn diesel their whole useful life and add air pollution. EV will become more and more sustainable as the grid changes. Also, wouldn't you love to have the semi in front of you accelerate on the on-ramp nearly as fast as you can?

Trying to catch up here since last night. I saw the message that @tyguy bailed, but wanted to address this anyway.

I still have my doubts because I have yet to see any evidence of a single tesla truck hitting on all 3 of its points: acceleration, towing capacity, and 500-mile range. Yes, I have seen the acceleration videos, but can THAT truck tow 40 tons? Or is it more likely that prototype does not have the extremely heavy frame it would require to be a real rig? And, yes, I have seen the videos of the prototype towing a trailer of undisclosed weight an undisclosed distance with undisclosed acceleration. And, yes, I have read the news report of a third-party carrier who said they used one to pull a load but can’t verify anything else.

I have read that, in order to hit its claims, outsiders project the truck would require a 1 MWh battery, and current tech and cost would make that prohibitively large, heavy, and expensive.

snakeweasel · March 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
I don't know that 300 mile range is necessary for a fundamentally "city car", or short commute car. The Bolt fits that role very well for a lot less cash than a Tesla 3, but it doesn't hold up as well to long-range cruising day by day.

I remember I said years ago that the "sweet spot" for EVs was going to be 300 miles and under $30K. I still feel that way--and no EV is there....yet.

Since the average person drives less than 50 miles a day a 300 mile range isn't needed for a daily driver/grocery getter. Most plug in hybrids would do me well on a daily commute using electric only and having an ICE for longer drives.

oldfarmer50 · March 2019

tyguy said:

qbrozen said:

tyguy said:

I recommend google searching for images of the truck in testing. I'll just leave it at that.

I'm finding it hard to swallow, to be honest. I'll reserve judgement until I see it functioning with a fully-loaded trailer.
Tesla been road testing them for almost a year now and there are videos of the trucks being followed while they drive between the battery factory in Nevada and assembly shop in California delivering batteries. Seems like a good test bed for weight and mountain handling.

I'm curious why people would fight this concept (not saying you qbrozen)? Seems like people actually want EV trucks to fail but I don't get that mindset. Diesel trucks will burn diesel their whole useful life and add air pollution. EV will become more and more sustainable as the grid changes. Also, wouldn't you love to have the semi in front of you accelerate on the on-ramp nearly as fast as you can?

I think someone mentioned that all that matters to truckers is the cost per mile. I’m all for EV trucks but the cost has to be equal to or less than current technology. Trucking is a cutthroat business and one cent per mile could break a small independent.

oldfarmer50 · March 2019

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
I hate winter.

just had an interesting piece on the local news. Apparently Volvo will be implementing governers on all their cars next year, capping them at 112. Kinda defeats the purpose of the Polestar tune models! Pretty sure that will be plenty for me, though might hurt sales in Germany.

nothing to do with economy. It is for safety. Though if you are already over 110, what the heck, might as well keep going!
I bet a lot of cars have speed limiters on them but it’s not advertised. I think my Mustang is limited to something like 155 while the old V6 was topped at 105. I suspect that most cars become unstable at speeds over 100 without aero mods.
Even 80's Honda's were pretty stable at 100 MPH, without aero mods.

We are not talking about streets with 90 degree turns here,people go 100 where there is plenty of straight or nearly straight tarmac.

Even the Neon was OK at 100 MPH. For instance, when the head gaskets were bad, and the coolant low because of the leakage, the air flow would keep the engine from overheating.

I’m not sure I can take the word of anyone who would take a hooptie Neon with a blown head gasket up to 100.

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