Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

I find the emotion regarding Tesla to be very interesting. They say people don't care about cars, but that car brings out more thoughts than maybe any other mainstream brand. I actually like the 3 more than the others, at least on the outside. I think the X is the worst way possible to spend its MSRP.

IMO, the company is helping progress, but its leader is an unpleasant piece of work and should face more accountability for his mouth.

I think some folks (me included) feel threatened by the possibility that this new technology will supplant their beloved ICE. For me it’s not the natural evolution of advancing technology that worries me as much as having some politician force the issue and make driving unaffordable.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

Up here the govt banned Roundup and the like for consumer use a few years ago. So the home stores put a product on the shelves called "Total Weed-Out" or some such thing that claimed to do the same job. I bought a jug a few years ago and used it on the weeds that emerge every summer along the edge of my driveway.

I sprayed it on the weeds and it immediately smelled like I had walked into an English fish & chip shop. It was just vinegar, but I believe a 10% solution, so strong vinegar. The weed leaves turned white within a day or two and eventually disappeared, but within a few weeks all came back. I continued using it and they continued to come back.

Then I discovered I had a large unopened jug of Roundup in the basement so I have judiciously used that ever since.

driver100

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem.  They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning.  If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.

Didn't they do that the last time they had it. Wouldn't they have caught a "programming error" then?
Just sayin'.

I don’t know all the specifics yet, but I agree with your comment.  The shop foreman was on the three-man team that supposedly were in contact with their US operations and port of entry in Georgia trying to figure out the cause of the sunroof popping up and then retracting before it could slide back.

I will know more tomorrow when I speak with them when I pick up the car.

Thanks for your concern

.

Thank goodness this problem occurred while the car is under warranty....hate to have to pay for those repairs.
It seems with so much electronic stuff these days programming glitches are quite frequent, they make something that relies on a complicated combination of bells and whistles...and worry about getting the program exactly right after the car is in the hands of the consumer.

driver100

tyguy said:

Hey guys. Too much negativity in here and the world is already filled with enough of that to voluntarily introduce more. I'm going to take a break, but wish you all the best. Happy motoring.

Michael, send me an email if you want to do a Colorado get-together.

Tyguy, hope you reconsider. It seems Tesla brings out strong emotions on both sides...kind of a CNN, FOX thing.
You are the voice of reason on the environmental side, and you have a wealth of knowledge. Don't take any comments personally, sometimes questioning helps us to understand better.
I have learned a great deal from you and I will miss your posts....hope you decide to stay.

driver100

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

Up here the govt banned Roundup and the like for consumer use a few years ago. So the home stores put a product on the shelves called "Total Weed-Out" or some such thing that claimed to do the same job..

Roundup can't be sold over the counter in Ontario, but if you go to the hardware store and ask for it they will ask you if you need it for poison ivy - wink, wink. If you answer back yes they will sell it to you.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

tyguy, when people express their opinions on this thread of Edmunds forums, emotions are expressed along with experiences.  I usually just “scroll” passed posts that get overly negative or emotional, or both.  I know you are the kind of guy who is devoted to improving the environment based on your job and your commitment to EV’s.

Negativity is usually the product of overly emotional investments in opinionizing. &nbsp

In this case the negatives of EVs for all as a cure for use of fossil fuels is being treated in a very positive way in most sources as if fossil fuels are actually a problem. The electricity and the grid for all these electric vehicles means an investment into the infrastructure and generating capacity, mostly fossil fuel based since nuclear energy was given an undeserved black eye by activists, must be made at the cost of everyone--including those not using EV's. So everyone pays to develop the ability to service the delivery. It's similar to how everyone pays for the airports and the air control system and the government agencies that rush in for a crash but at the same time the people preaching against fossil fuels and against airplanes are using the air transportation system heavily.

I see a 30-acre field of solar panels along I70 as soon as I leave the State of Ohio into Indiana. I wonder what cost was used to plant those. And in 10 years, how much damage to the ecology will be done when they have to be taken down and go into the trash system. All that to be replaced by the next great thing.

The full cost of an EV has not been objectively totaled. The cost of building, using, and recycling all the materials in an ICE vehicle is clear.

I think a thorough analysis of the facts in the Musk entities is essential. Some of the news about Musk concerns me.

stickguy

I don’t actually care what’s under the hood. As long as the car lets me drive, is enjoyable, reliable, and can go a long way then be refueled quickly anyplace.

But a 4 cylinder mustang or F150 (if those happen to be the vehicles that work for me), sure. Electric? Sure! If of course, they hit those conditions.

Right now, a volt (plug in EV) is probably ideal for me. If price and drive ability work of course. I would be under electric only a big portion of my driving.

abacomike

Let’s assume for the moment that Elon Musk was not head of Tesla, but rather Steve Jobs was the CEO.  What differences would we observe in the company?

More “secret” or “clandestine” product development and testing of those products to ensure quality and dependability prior to announcing a new or improved product while at the same time improved capitalization of the financial side would be my guess.  I would also imagine a superior marketing department and positive public relations.

Consider this as well - Albert Einstein was a great thinker and had an analytical mind, however he probably would not have made a great CEO at Tesla because his thoughts would be up in the clouds, not on the operations of the company.  Like Musk, who generates great ideas - but is he the individual who should be the front man for this company called Tesla?

Musk should be acting/operating more inside the walls of Tesla rather outside in the public view where an evaluation of the company by the public and the government tends to consider Elon Musk’s personality in their assessment of the company rather than the product itself.

fintail

I am fine with it, so long as I have access to infrastructure. Right now, my access to charging infrastructure is limited at best.

I am more concerned about devolving socio-economic conditions harming driving more than politicos. Oil has sway in politics, and oil wants people to drive.

oldfarmer50 said:

I think some folks (me included) feel threatened by the possibility that this new technology will supplant their beloved ICE. For me it’s not the natural evolution of advancing technology that worries me as much as having some politician force the issue and make driving unaffordable.

houdini2

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

The Orlando area is crazy with more traffic than I have experienced since leaving NYC 55 years ago.  The hotels and motels are jammed.  Mostly college aged kids from my observations.  Got home at 6:00 PM and I am exhausted.

We avoid Orlando if at all possible....the airport is a nightmare. This is the week the college students are around....especially Daytona Beach. Glad you survived...but, you will have some great memories. btw....I have a belief, often it is good if young players lose a few early games, I have seen some young successful players get too many wins early, they think they are invincible, and they blow themselves up.

Another thing in sports and in business, you can learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes.

Like "the man" said, you always gain experience right after you needed it.

houdini2

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's not "haters"--it's called "critics" and they have a good basis to criticize Tesla with what seems to be some solid data. There's a difference I think between stating Tesla to be as good as it is, rather than trying to make it better than it is.

It's like what they say about Hollywood: "You're only as good as your next movie".

Tesla had better not spend a minute resting on past laurels.

Glad to see that you understand the difference between haters and critics. Maybe at some point you will also understand the difference between deniers and critics.

tjc78

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

I hate winter.

just had an interesting piece on the local news. Apparently Volvo will be implementing governers on all their cars next year, capping them at 112. Kinda defeats the purpose of the Polestar tune models! Pretty sure that will be plenty for me, though might hurt sales in Germany.

nothing to do with economy. It is for safety. Though if you are already over 110, what the heck, might as well keep going!

I bet a lot of cars have speed limiters on them but it’s not advertised. I think my Mustang is limited to something like 155 while the old V6 was topped at 105. I suspect that most cars become unstable at speeds over 100 without aero mods.

Even 80's Honda's were pretty stable at 100 MPH, without aero mods.

We are not talking about streets with 90 degree turns here,people go 100 where there is plenty of straight or nearly straight tarmac.

Even the Neon was OK at 100 MPH. For instance, when the head gaskets were bad, and the coolant low because of the leakage, the air flow would keep the engine from overheating.

I’m not sure I can take the word of anyone who would take a hooptie Neon with a blown head gasket up to 100.

Ha Ha... you should have seen the way I drove my beat up 79 Continental in the late 90s. That engine was so clapped out. Virtually no oil pressure at idle in drive, burned about a quart every 500 miles ... took that beast on the highway and buried that 85 MPH speedometer more times than I could count.

houdini2

abacomike said:

Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem.  They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning.  If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.

Your sunroof problems are starting to remind me of that Sterling I had back in the late '80's.

henryn

stickguy said:

I don’t actually care what’s under the hood. As long as the car lets me drive, is enjoyable, reliable, and can go a long way then be refueled quickly anyplace.

But a 4 cylinder mustang or F150 (if those happen to be the vehicles that work for me), sure. Electric? Sure! If of course, they hit those conditions.

Right now, a volt (plug in EV) is probably ideal for me. If price and drive ability work of course. I would be under electric only a big portion of my driving.

They don't make a 4 cylinder F150, you're probably thinking of the new Silverado.

henryn

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem.  They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning.  If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.

Didn't they do that the last time they had it. Wouldn't they have caught a "programming error" then?
Just sayin'.

I don’t know all the specifics yet, but I agree with your comment.  The shop foreman was on the three-man team that supposedly were in contact with their US operations and port of entry in Georgia trying to figure out the cause of the sunroof popping up and then retracting before it could slide back.

I will know more tomorrow when I speak with them when I pick up the car.

Thanks for your concern

.

Thank goodness this problem occurred while the car is under warranty....hate to have to pay for those repairs.
It seems with so much electronic stuff these days programming glitches are quite frequent, they make something that relies on a complicated combination of bells and whistles...and worry about getting the program exactly right after the car is in the hands of the consumer.

-=-=-=-=-=-===--=-=-=- end quoted material =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This is the kind of problem (powered sunroof not operational) that 9 times out of 10 will not get fixed once the car is out of warranty. Unless, of course, it's stuck in the open position and you absolutely cannot get it closed. While I would be okay with a sunroof that didn't open, I would not be okay driving around in a car with plastic duct taped over the hole in the roof!

stickguy

I know. It was a theoretical. Point being, I’m not hung up on “a mustang/beast sized PU has to have a V8 or it’s junk”. It could have a flux capacitor or Ronco bass o matic under the hood if it did the job.

houdini2

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

Up here the govt banned Roundup and the like for consumer use a few years ago. So the home stores put a product on the shelves called "Total Weed-Out" or some such thing that claimed to do the same job. I bought a jug a few years ago and used it on the weeds that emerge every summer along the edge of my driveway.

I sprayed it on the weeds and it immediately smelled like I had walked into an English fish & chip shop. It was just vinegar, but I believe a 10% solution, so strong vinegar. The weed leaves turned white within a day or two and eventually disappeared, but within a few weeks all came back. I continued using it and they continued to come back.

Then I discovered I had a large unopened jug of Roundup in the basement so I have judiciously used that ever since.

Speaking of round up, I recently saw an ad that showed the wand now has a cup over the end so you can fit it over/around the weed and avoid much of the over spray, etc.

henryn

stickguy said:

I know. It was a theoretical. Point being, I’m not hung up on “a mustang/beast sized PU has to have a V8 or it’s junk”. It could have a flux capacitor or Ronco bass o matic under the hood if it did the job.

I am in agreement with your position. While a flux capacitor would be interesting, I'm not sure they could get enough horsepower out of a Ronco bass o matic. But if they could, I would be okay with that.

On the subject of needing a "V8 for a beast sized PU", I owned a 2013 F150 with the 5.0 V8, and traded it in for a 2015 with the 2.7L twin turbo V6. The turbo was better in every respect. Faster under any conditions, more responsive, and better gas mileage. I think they only continue selling the V8 for people who won't buy anything else, and those who really want to install a loud cat back system.

houdini2

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

tyguy, when people express their opinions on this thread of Edmunds forums, emotions are expressed along with experiences.  I usually just “scroll” passed posts that get overly negative or emotional, or both.  I know you are the kind of guy who is devoted to improving the environment based on your job and your commitment to EV’s.

Negativity is usually the product of overly emotional investments in opinionizing. &nbsp

In this case the negatives of EVs for all as a cure for use of fossil fuels is being treated in a very positive way in most sources as if fossil fuels are actually a problem. The electricity and the grid for all these electric vehicles means an investment into the infrastructure and generating capacity, mostly fossil fuel based since nuclear energy was given an undeserved black eye by activists, must be made at the cost of everyone--including those not using EV's. So everyone pays to develop the ability to service the delivery. It's similar to how everyone pays for the airports and the air control system and the government agencies that rush in for a crash but at the same time the people preaching against fossil fuels and against airplanes are using the air transportation system heavily.

I see a 30-acre field of solar panels along I70 as soon as I leave the State of Ohio into Indiana. I wonder what cost was used to plant those. And in 10 years, how much damage to the ecology will be done when they have to be taken down and go into the trash system. All that to be replaced by the next great thing.

The full cost of an EV has not been objectively totaled. The cost of building, using, and recycling all the materials in an ICE vehicle is clear.

I think a thorough analysis of the facts in the Musk entities is essential. Some of the news about Musk concerns me.

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

tyguy, when people express their opinions on this thread of Edmunds forums, emotions are expressed along with experiences.  I usually just “scroll” passed posts that get overly negative or emotional, or both.  I know you are the kind of guy who is devoted to improving the environment based on your job and your commitment to EV’s.

Negativity is usually the product of overly emotional investments in opinionizing. &nbsp

In this case the negatives of EVs for all as a cure for use of fossil fuels is being treated in a very positive way in most sources as if fossil fuels are actually a problem. The electricity and the grid for all these electric vehicles means an investment into the infrastructure and generating capacity, mostly fossil fuel based since nuclear energy was given an undeserved black eye by activists, must be made at the cost of everyone--including those not using EV's. So everyone pays to develop the ability to service the delivery. It's similar to how everyone pays for the airports and the air control system and the government agencies that rush in for a crash but at the same time the people preaching against fossil fuels and against airplanes are using the air transportation system heavily.

I see a 30-acre field of solar panels along I70 as soon as I leave the State of Ohio into Indiana. I wonder what cost was used to plant those. And in 10 years, how much damage to the ecology will be done when they have to be taken down and go into the trash system. All that to be replaced by the next great thing.

The full cost of an EV has not been objectively totaled. The cost of building, using, and recycling all the materials in an ICE vehicle is clear.

I think a thorough analysis of the facts in the Musk entities is essential. Some of the news about Musk concerns me.

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

tyguy, when people express their opinions on this thread of Edmunds forums, emotions are expressed along with experiences.  I usually just “scroll” passed posts that get overly negative or emotional, or both.  I know you are the kind of guy who is devoted to improving the environment based on your job and your commitment to EV’s.

Negativity is usually the product of overly emotional investments in opinionizing. &nbsp

In this case the negatives of EVs for all as a cure for use of fossil fuels is being treated in a very positive way in most sources as if fossil fuels are actually a problem. The electricity and the grid for all these electric vehicles means an investment into the infrastructure and generating capacity, mostly fossil fuel based since nuclear energy was given an undeserved black eye by activists, must be made at the cost of everyone--including those not using EV's. So everyone pays to develop the ability to service the delivery. It's similar to how everyone pays for the airports and the air control system and the government agencies that rush in for a crash but at the same time the people preaching against fossil fuels and against airplanes are using the air transportation system heavily.

I see a 30-acre field of solar panels along I70 as soon as I leave the State of Ohio into Indiana. I wonder what cost was used to plant those. And in 10 years, how much damage to the ecology will be done when they have to be taken down and go into the trash system. All that to be replaced by the next great thing.

The full cost of an EV has not been objectively totaled. The cost of building, using, and recycling all the materials in an ICE vehicle is clear.

I think a thorough analysis of the facts in the Musk entities is essential. Some of the news about Musk concerns me.

Don't forget all the government subsidies, ie tax dollars.

dino001

abacomike said:

Let’s assume for the moment that Elon Musk was not head of Tesla, but rather Steve Jobs was the CEO.  What differences would we observe in the company?

More “secret” or “clandestine” product development and testing of those products to ensure quality and dependability prior to announcing a new or improved product while at the same time improved capitalization of the financial side would be my guess.  I would also imagine a superior marketing department and positive public relations.

Consider this as well - Albert Einstein was a great thinker and had an analytical mind, however he probably would not have made a great CEO at Tesla because his thoughts would be up in the clouds, not on the operations of the company.  Like Musk, who generates great ideas - but is he the individual who should be the front man for this company called Tesla?

Musk should be acting/operating more inside the walls of Tesla rather outside in the public view where an evaluation of the company by the public and the government tends to consider Elon Musk’s personality in their assessment of the company rather than the product itself.

I think Musk could also be a great fundraiser guy to sell a vision/ideas to be funded, as long he has an adult chaperone that locks him out of the room when finances are being discussed and actual business promises/predictions made. He could even be on Twitter doing his stuff, as long as he was not an officer of a publicly traded company.

stickguy

Musk is a classic vision/idea guy that needs to partner with a sharp businessman type to make it all work.

dino001

I am saddened by Tyguy's response to this. The criticism (harsh, admittedly) of Musk's conduct has nothing to do with Ty, his Tesla vehicle, or electric vehicle as a concept idea. The fact that he took it so hard, is unfortunately one data point confirmation that many Tesla's customers/followers see skepticism, no matter whether it's about the product, financial viability of the company, lack of enthusiasm toward company's promises (based well documented trail of overpromises) and other much more questionable conduct by its leader, as a personal attack on their own values and life choices.

I'm thrilled that there are around people like Ty, who are brave enough to spend their own hard-earned money to try a very expensive product from a company that may not even be around in five years (not a snipe, just a fact based on current financial statements). I did not have a smartphone until it was iPhone 6. I did not have a cell phone until I needed it to communicate with another party during my summer trip 20 years after cell phone was invented. I was skeptical about first iPad, it took Apple to make four generations before I got one. All these things are just small examples of me being a "very late adopter", general skeptic of consumer technology, despite (or perhaps because) of my engineering degree (I'm a structural engineer, they tend to be extremely conservative and like using proven technologies and methods, or people die). Thanks to early adopters, like Ty, I enjoy a mature, perfected product when it's ready, at much better price and value - and i still grumble about the price .

So, please, do not take my criticism of Musk's conduct, skeptical stance towards Tesla's "future product" announcements, or even skepticism on Tesla's current product (in terms of its real vs. perceived value), company's own or its enthusiasts' claims regarding its lead in pursued technologies (like autonomous driving, or battery), as reflecting on you in any way. In some ways, if not for Musk, I would probably question Tesla's prospects or achievements much less. But then, probably only a quarter or even a one-tenth of promises would have been made, so there would be much less to question. That's why it really is all about him - the real genius (I'm not facetious), who simply cannot shut up when he should.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

Up here the govt banned Roundup and the like for consumer use a few years ago. So the home stores put a product on the shelves called "Total Weed-Out" or some such thing that claimed to do the same job. I bought a jug a few years ago and used it on the weeds that emerge every summer along the edge of my driveway.

I sprayed it on the weeds and it immediately smelled like I had walked into an English fish & chip shop. It was just vinegar, but I believe a 10% solution, so strong vinegar. The weed leaves turned white within a day or two and eventually disappeared, but within a few weeks all came back. I continued using it and they continued to come back.

Then I discovered I had a large unopened jug of Roundup in the basement so I have judiciously used that ever since.

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Undiluted white vinegar is so acidic that it will burn the leaves off most plants. It’ll kill annual weeds but perennial weeds might need multiple doses. Don’t get it on desirable plants as it will burn them too. I like to nail the weeds that are just coming up and then plant my veggies or flowers. By the time the weeds recover the good plants are off and running.

Up here the govt banned Roundup and the like for consumer use a few years ago. So the home stores put a product on the shelves called "Total Weed-Out" or some such thing that claimed to do the same job. I bought a jug a few years ago and used it on the weeds that emerge every summer along the edge of my driveway.

I sprayed it on the weeds and it immediately smelled like I had walked into an English fish & chip shop. It was just vinegar, but I believe a 10% solution, so strong vinegar. The weed leaves turned white within a day or two and eventually disappeared, but within a few weeks all came back. I continued using it and they continued to come back.

Then I discovered I had a large unopened jug of Roundup in the basement so I have judiciously used that ever since.

What came back was probably germinating seeds which aren't effected by either vinegar or glyphosate (roundup) so new ones keep coming back. I think the hysteria about roundup is overblown but hey, if you can do the job organically, why not.

Just remember, some substances which are certified organic could burn a hole through your hand or kill you dead as Caesar.

driver100

I hear Tesla will keep the showrooms, but they will add 3% to the cost of the car to make that up.
I think Musk is a genius without too much marketing knowledge. He decided it would be a brilliant move to cut the cost of the car by 3%....not realizing....people may actually want to sit in one and try it out before buying.

dino001

driver100 said:

I hear Tesla will keep the showrooms, but they will add 3% to the cost of the car to make that up.
I think Musk is a genius without too much marketing knowledge. He decided it would be a brilliant move to cut the cost of the car by 3%....not realizing....people may actually want to sit in one and try it out before buying.

Especially that he is no longer after early adopters. He wanted Joe and Jane Doe to shell out (say) 40 grand on the word that it's good and you can give it back in 7 days. Considering how long people waited for their $1000 deposits, call me a skeptic (again).

qbrozen

On a different topic, I’m looking to receive backyard mechanic of the week award.

Finally started in on changing the tires on the T&C, which have seen 56k miles. Pulled it in, got my equipment organized and ready to go, went to loosen the lugs and ... Ran into problem one when I could not find the wheel lock. $20 to order a replacement is easier to me than going back to the dealer, who has been rotating them with each oil change. Received the new key on Friday. 

Sunday, I start over. Back it in, jack up the rear, remove the wheels, etc. First one gives me a bit of a fit when trying to seat the bead, but I get it after a little fussing. The second one, however, would NOT SEAT no matter what I did or what chemicals I applied! After a couple of hours, I give up. Back inside the house, I order some gunk on amazon to create a temp seal that allows the tire sides to expand and seat. Now here I am yesterday, van in the air hanging half out of the garage, and I need to leave the house unattended starting 5pm and amazon says my stuff won’t arrive till 9pm. UGH. 

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked. Pic is after I scraped off most of the excess. 

jmonroe1

henryn said:

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Service department called and said they believe they have fixed the problem with the sunroof - it was a programming problem.  They are keeping it overnight and they want to try opening and closing the sunroof several times tomorrow morning.  If it works satisfactorily, they will call me to pick it up.

Didn't they do that the last time they had it. Wouldn't they have caught a "programming error" then?
Just sayin'.

I don’t know all the specifics yet, but I agree with your comment.  The shop foreman was on the three-man team that supposedly were in contact with their US operations and port of entry in Georgia trying to figure out the cause of the sunroof popping up and then retracting before it could slide back.

I will know more tomorrow when I speak with them when I pick up the car.

Thanks for your concern

.

Thank goodness this problem occurred while the car is under warranty....hate to have to pay for those repairs.
It seems with so much electronic stuff these days programming glitches are quite frequent, they make something that relies on a complicated combination of bells and whistles...and worry about getting the program exactly right after the car is in the hands of the consumer.

-=-=-=-=-=-===--=-=-=- end quoted material =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This is the kind of problem (powered sunroof not operational) that 9 times out of 10 will not get fixed once the car is out of warranty. Unless, of course, it's stuck in the open position and you absolutely cannot get it closed. While I would be okay with a sunroof that didn't open, I would not be okay driving around in a car with plastic duct taped over the hole in the roof!



C'mon man, nobody is going to duct tape the entire sun roof opening. However, you could do what I have seen done with sun roofs and side windows, which is, use clear 6 or 8 mil plastic with duct tape around the perimeter of the opening.

Hey @Mike, maybe on your way home from the dealer when you get your car back, you should stop at Home Depot or Lowe's and throw some of that stuff in your trunk...just in case.

jmonroe

stickguy

I was watching some car show the other day and the shop had gotten a new tire machine to save time, and of course no one really new how to use it. so they kept trying to get a tire to bead, and their "solution" was spray ether in the tire, then hit it with a torch to make it explode, in theory seating the tire. A few tries, made some impressive bangs, but not success. And I doubt it did much good for the tire.

after a look at the manual, they realized there was a rubber ring you use to get the first side seated. Worked like a charm!

ab348

I've seen that "put explosive gas in the tire and set it off" trick used on those shows a few times. No thanks.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

On a different topic, I’m looking to receive backyard mechanic of the week award.

Finally started in on changing the tires on the T&C, which have seen 56k miles. Pulled it in, got my equipment organized and ready to go, went to loosen the lugs and ... Ran into problem one when I could not find the wheel lock. $20 to order a replacement is easier to me than going back to the dealer, who has been rotating them with each oil change. Received the new key on Friday. 

Sunday, I start over. Back it in, jack up the rear, remove the wheels, etc. First one gives me a bit of a fit when trying to seat the bead, but I get it after a little fussing. The second one, however, would NOT SEAT no matter what I did or what chemicals I applied! After a couple of hours, I give up. Back inside the house, I order some gunk on amazon to create a temp seal that allows the tire sides to expand and seat. Now here I am yesterday, van in the air hanging half out of the garage, and I need to leave the house unattended starting 5pm and amazon says my stuff won’t arrive till 9pm. UGH. 

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked. Pic is after I scraped off most of the excess. 

Good or bad, I consider myself a DIY guy. I'm better at some things than others but I NEVER, not even once thought of putting tires on rims myself. Do you really think you can do it as good or better than a tire shop? With the problems you just mentioned, you otta be the poster child for leaving this kind of work to "the guy". On top of that, that tire doesn't look good enough to eat (and I really like peanut butter), at least not to me.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

ab348 said:

I've seen that "put explosive gas in the tire and set it off" trick used on those shows a few times. No thanks.

I've never see or heard of that but since it was on a TV car show, I can believe it because lots of stuff is done on TV just for the effect. That almost reminds of watching HGTV, where they take down kitchen cabinets with a sledge hammer. Who in there right mind wants pieces of kitchen cabinets flying around when removing a few screw is all it takes to get them down and they could be used in the garage for storage if you wanted to do that. Like I said, done for effect.

Anyone who buys a tool, in this case a tire machine, and hasn't seen it used or didn't read the manual first, is more than a dope...they're IDIOTS.

jmonroe

PF_Flyer

qbrozen said:

On a different topic, I’m looking to receive backyard mechanic of the week award.

Finally started in on changing the tires on the T&C, which have seen 56k miles. Pulled it in, got my equipment organized and ready to go, went to loosen the lugs and ... Ran into problem one when I could not find the wheel lock. $20 to order a replacement is easier to me than going back to the dealer, who has been rotating them with each oil change. Received the new key on Friday. 

Sunday, I start over. Back it in, jack up the rear, remove the wheels, etc. First one gives me a bit of a fit when trying to seat the bead, but I get it after a little fussing. The second one, however, would NOT SEAT no matter what I did or what chemicals I applied! After a couple of hours, I give up. Back inside the house, I order some gunk on amazon to create a temp seal that allows the tire sides to expand and seat. Now here I am yesterday, van in the air hanging half out of the garage, and I need to leave the house unattended starting 5pm and amazon says my stuff won’t arrive till 9pm. UGH. 

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked. Pic is after I scraped off most of the excess. 

Another thing I've done is to put a loop in the end of a rope, pass the free end through the loop and wrap it around the circumference of the tire. Cinch it up until the bead is forced to the rim and start pumping. But peanut butter scores MacGyver points for sure

qbrozen

jmonroe1 said:

On a different topic, I’m looking to receive backyard mechanic of the week award.

Finally started in on changing the tires on the T&C, which have seen 56k miles. Pulled it in, got my equipment organized and ready to go, went to loosen the lugs and ... Ran into problem one when I could not find the wheel lock. $20 to order a replacement is easier to me than going back to the dealer, who has been rotating them with each oil change. Received the new key on Friday. 

Sunday, I start over. Back it in, jack up the rear, remove the wheels, etc. First one gives me a bit of a fit when trying to seat the bead, but I get it after a little fussing. The second one, however, would NOT SEAT no matter what I did or what chemicals I applied! After a couple of hours, I give up. Back inside the house, I order some gunk on amazon to create a temp seal that allows the tire sides to expand and seat. Now here I am yesterday, van in the air hanging half out of the garage, and I need to leave the house unattended starting 5pm and amazon says my stuff won’t arrive till 9pm. UGH. 

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked. Pic is after I scraped off most of the excess. 

Good or bad, I consider myself a DIY guy. I'm better at some things than others but I NEVER, not even once thought of putting tires on rims myself. Do you really think you can do it as good or better than a tire shop? With the problems you just mentioned, you otta be the poster child for leaving this kind of work to "the guy". On top of that, that tire doesn't look good enough to eat (and I really like peanut butter), at least not to me. jmonroe

I have a tire machine and have done probably 100 tires with it by now (including friends and family) and saved thousands of dollars. This is the first time I could not get it to set.

I did try the ether “trick” but could not get any kind of pop. It did a slow burn each time. Maybe I was not using enough but certainly was not comfortable with the idea enough to risk too big a fire. 

ab348

qbrozen said:

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked.

If you have any mice in that garage they will be ga-ga over that peanut butter. Might want to set out a few traps.

ab348

jmonroe1 said:

That almost reminds of watching HGTV, where they take down kitchen cabinets with a sledge hammer. Who in there right mind wants pieces of kitchen cabinets flying around when removing a few screw is all it takes to get them down and they could be used in the garage for storage if you wanted to do that. Like I said, done for effect.

Removing cabinets with a sledge hammer in those shows is my absolute pet peeve. Drives me nuts every time i see it.

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

No, as I stated, they did not hypermile. This is based on normal driving, under very good conditions for an EV.

The Kias are certainly CUV-ish, and besides, the Tesla Model X is not a very good product, turns out.

What I need is storage, not CUV styling. Around 35 cu ft in the back with the back seats up. I'm not a fan of the X, either. I hate the rear doors and the overall styling.

Sorry, but the Bolt just can't hit 300 miles without non-typical driving conditions. Not because it's a bad car or anything, but because the battery is too small. Do they have an energy graph and average speed? It's like someone with a Ford Explorer getting 40 MPG, and then you find out the drove it the entire way downhill with wind at their back and turned off the motor during the straightaway sections.

I can assure you once again that the Bolt was not driven under hypermiling. This is an actual real world result.

Conditions were close to ideal with temperature reading from 50 to 60-ish degrees. 100 or so of the miles were on the highway @ 50-60 mph, with the remaining 200 miles being in city driving. Battery was fully depleted at the end of the test.

Here is a video report if you're interested:

https://insideevs.com/driving-300-miles-single-charge-chevrolet-bolt-video/

Between 50 and 60 degrees.....so real world conditions if you don't need air conditioning or heat...or get stuck in a traffic jam. Where can I be sure to find those conditions 24/7?

Also 50 to 60 MPH is ridiculously slow for a 100 mile trip. Let's be real here. Maybe it was tested on Mars and the lower gravity helped.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not at all. If you commute in an area where most EVs are sold--that is, using the EV the way most people use them, I doubt you would even AVERAGE 50 mph most days. Certainly not in the SF Bay area, where a boatload of Teslas are sold.

Did you happen to watch the Bolt video? I thought the guy was being very fair-minded, and certainly in no way duplicitous.

I have a friend with a Bolt and a friend with a Tesla---well, acquaintances if you will---and the difference in what they paid was $20K. So yeah, the Model 3 is overall a better car, but the question remains---$20K better? It's certainly a reasonable question to ask and has nothing to do with not liking one brand or another--this is a debate with quantitative info on the table.

ruking1

This is a way different topic. Just received a letter advising the 2014 MB GLK 250 BT is recalled for the (famous) air bags. I’m guessing that there is no stock, so they are telling us to wait for another letter to make an appointment with a dealer.

dino001

Talking "people die" - looks like 737 MAX is now grounded everywhere except the US. I'm sure it will come soon, can't see FAA holding out for much longer. I'm sure it will all be fine in a large scheme of things, but there is something strange. Even if it's two unrelated pilot errors, a larger question may be about how much was it because of new technology/training deficiencies and how much it was poor decisions as pilots. The grounding me be an overkill after all, but perhaps it's needed to avert even a bigger panic (like people refusing to board in large numbers).

From what I gathered, even though it's similar, the plane is really different in a way it flies, especially climbs. Larger engines, more thrust, cause the nose to pitch up much more dramatically than the previous gens, so computers are intervening much more decisively than in the previous gens. If pilots aren't fully aware of that and get caught with unexpected overcompensation, things could get dicey really fast, especially in first few minutes on the flight. Or so I heard.

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like the FAA isn't going to ground them--just require a software modification. As for public perception, it needn't be tied to any real facts in order to harm Boeing or the airlines. Besides, the 737 Max is one of only two major "workhorse" planes that do lots of regional work. So it's not going anywhere.

stickguy

Better safe them sorry territory?

And even if technically pilot error, did the plane cause a risky condition through faulty sensors or programming that the pilots weren’t able to handle?

dino001

They may still ground them until the modification is performed. That could be just a few days/weeks. Right now it's banned pretty much everywhere else until "further notice".

dino001

stickguy said:

Better safe them sorry territory?

And even if technically pilot error, did the plane cause a risky condition through faulty sensors or programming that the pilots weren’t able to handle?

That's the biggest question. Not all "pilot errors" are the same. Some are personal poor choices, some could be induced by lack/poor training, or unrecognized conditions. Remember crash of A320 over Long Island? It was technically "pilot error", but it was induced literally by wrong training by American Airlines. Overcompensation for wake vortex resulted in loss of the tail section.

ruking1

It must be a ...SLOW...worldwide news week. We used to receive those kinds of modifications ...daily. From what I can read between the lines, it’s probably pilot error. (5/6 years in bombers tankers fighters, etc., USAF) Of course, right now the battle: the sides don’t want to say ANYTHING, let alone something in public.

The loss mathematics are overwhelming. So for example, on one aircraft 737 Max 8 with 237 passemgers/crew@ $2 M pp = $474 M. If the pilots for Ethiopian Airlines were shown to be at fault, I’m sure bankruptcy would not be far behind. As most folks know Ethiopia and other African Counties are backed by China.

houdini2

qbrozen said:

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

On a different topic, I’m looking to receive backyard mechanic of the week award.

Finally started in on changing the tires on the T&C, which have seen 56k miles. Pulled it in, got my equipment organized and ready to go, went to loosen the lugs and ... Ran into problem one when I could not find the wheel lock. $20 to order a replacement is easier to me than going back to the dealer, who has been rotating them with each oil change. Received the new key on Friday. 

Sunday, I start over. Back it in, jack up the rear, remove the wheels, etc. First one gives me a bit of a fit when trying to seat the bead, but I get it after a little fussing. The second one, however, would NOT SEAT no matter what I did or what chemicals I applied! After a couple of hours, I give up. Back inside the house, I order some gunk on amazon to create a temp seal that allows the tire sides to expand and seat. Now here I am yesterday, van in the air hanging half out of the garage, and I need to leave the house unattended starting 5pm and amazon says my stuff won’t arrive till 9pm. UGH. 

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked. Pic is after I scraped off most of the excess. 

Good or bad, I consider myself a DIY guy. I'm better at some things than others but I NEVER, not even once thought of putting tires on rims myself. Do you really think you can do it as good or better than a tire shop? With the problems you just mentioned, you otta be the poster child for leaving this kind of work to "the guy". On top of that, that tire doesn't look good enough to eat (and I really like peanut butter), at least not to me.

jmonroe

I have a tire machine and have done probably 100 tires with it by now (including friends and family) and saved thousands of dollars. This is the first time I could not get it to set.

I did try the ether “trick” but could not get any kind of pop. It did a slow burn each time. Maybe I was not using enough but certainly was not comfortable with the idea enough to risk too big a fire. 

Mayonnaise would have probably been easier to work with...probably not as effective though.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

On a different topic, I’m looking to receive backyard mechanic of the week award.

Finally started in on changing the tires on the T&C, which have seen 56k miles. Pulled it in, got my equipment organized and ready to go, went to loosen the lugs and ... Ran into problem one when I could not find the wheel lock. $20 to order a replacement is easier to me than going back to the dealer, who has been rotating them with each oil change. Received the new key on Friday. 

Sunday, I start over. Back it in, jack up the rear, remove the wheels, etc. First one gives me a bit of a fit when trying to seat the bead, but I get it after a little fussing. The second one, however, would NOT SEAT no matter what I did or what chemicals I applied! After a couple of hours, I give up. Back inside the house, I order some gunk on amazon to create a temp seal that allows the tire sides to expand and seat. Now here I am yesterday, van in the air hanging half out of the garage, and I need to leave the house unattended starting 5pm and amazon says my stuff won’t arrive till 9pm. UGH. 

Racking my brain and searching the garage and house, I came upon something... peanut butter. Why the hell not? It is cheaper than the stuff I ordered anyway and we have LOTS of it. BTW, I already had spread a 12-oz can of bearing grease, but that was not nearly enough to surround a van tire. Sooo... on went a 16-oz jar of smooth natural PB. It worked! Made a god awful mess, but it worked. Pic is after I scraped off most of the excess. 

That’s a trick worthy of Scotty Kilmer. But now you’ll have to contend with mice eating your tires. PB is the best mouse bait around.

tjc78

ab348 said:

That almost reminds of watching HGTV, where they take down kitchen cabinets with a sledge hammer. Who in there right mind wants pieces of kitchen cabinets flying around when removing a few screw is all it takes to get them down and they could be used in the garage for storage if you wanted to do that. Like I said, done for effect.

Removing cabinets with a sledge hammer in those shows is my absolute pet peeve. Drives me nuts every time i see it.

Yes it’s actually faster to just unscrew them or take a long sawzall blade up behind them and cut the screws.  Much easier to take out whole units than little pieces.  

Michaell

I have a friend with a Bolt and a friend with a Tesla---well, acquaintances if you will---and the difference in what they paid was $20K. So yeah, the Model 3 is overall a better car, but the question remains---$20K better? It's certainly a reasonable question to ask and has nothing to do with not liking one brand or another--this is a debate with quantitative info on the table.

Same is true with ICE cars - is a 5-series $20K better than an Avalon?

How much of a premium is the brand worth? That is an individual question.

PF_Flyer

To tie it back to cars, I'm firmly in the "you need to drive your car" camp. Things like self-braking, self-parking and the like are nice, but should not be a substitute for actually being in control. Once modern passenger jets leave the ground, you barely have to touch the controls. Seems at least possible that there's something wrong with the automated systems on the 737 MAX and just after takeoff, there's not a lot or time or altitude to troubleshoot and react to any problem.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

Talking "people die" - looks like 737 MAX is now grounded everywhere except the US. I'm sure it will come soon, can't see FAA holding out for much longer. I'm sure it will all be fine in a large scheme of things, but there is something strange. Even if it's two unrelated pilot errors, a larger question may be about how much was it because of new technology/training deficiencies and how much it was poor decisions as pilots. The grounding me be an overkill after all, but perhaps it's needed to avert even a bigger panic (like people refusing to board in large numbers).

From what I gathered, even though it's similar, the plane is really different in a way it flies, especially climbs. Larger engines, more thrust, cause the nose to pitch up much more dramatically than the previous gens, so computers are intervening much more decisively than in the previous gens. If pilots aren't fully aware of that and get caught with unexpected overcompensation, things could get dicey really fast, especially in first few minutes on the flight. Or so I heard.

Modern pilots may be so conditioned to let the computers fly that they overlook simple saves such as just turning the system off and flying manually. Kind of like young folks who can’t drive a stick.

BTW, this would be a great time to buy Boeing stock.

PF_Flyer

There are 74 737-8 MAX's certified to fly in the US. So yes, it would be disruptive, but it's not like it would shut down all air travel if they were grounded until more is determined about what's going on.

But everything is on the table right now