Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

graphicguy · May 2019

First world problems.....I had my home built 25 years ago. I've replaced flooring, kitchen counters, bathroom fixtures, furnace, hot water heater, roof, deck, concrete driveway, painted numerous times, etc.

The things I never replaced were the smoke detectors. This came to my attention last night when one of them went off, and wouldn't turn off. At first, I sort of freaked out because no matter where I looked, I could find neither fire nor smoke. Yet, it kept on with the loud and obnoxious screech. Finally, I just decided to take it off the wall. But, it's hard wired into the electrical system. And, trying to find the breaker it was on was comical in and of itself. Of course, it was on the last breaker I tried.

That led me to Home Depot, where I came to the conclusion if one was bad, they were all probably on borrowed time. So, I changed all of them out. Problem is, they were all much bigger 25 years ago than they are today. That means there's a ring around the smoke detectors that don't have paint on them. Now, to try to match paint that's been on the walls for a few years. While I'm at it, I may as well repaint walls and ceilings.

What should have been a 5 minute fix has turned into this.

stickguy · May 2019

GG, I had that issue a few years go. Thankfully I found the updated version f the dL ones so could use the existing ceiling mount, just with a new trim ring. Which of course was just a smidge smaller. But pretty close!

jipster · May 2019

venture said:

snakeweasel said:
Well it didn't rain so I took my new mower out to finish the lawn. For a pull start mower it takes very little effort to get it going. Moves well over the lawn and mowing was effortless. Should have gotten a new one sooner.
I get a new mower every three or four years. I also have a Toro now with a Honda engine. It's the 2nd Toro in a row.

Why buy new every 3 or 4 years? I usually get at.least 10 years.out.of mine.

stickguy · May 2019

I use it until it dies. Then but another basic one from Lowe’s.

jipster · May 2019

Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?

henryn · May 2019

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?

I agree, at 100k, it should receive a tune up, all of the above sounds fair and reasonable at 100k.

A good independent shop should save you at least 1/3, maybe more.

Mercedes, BMW, Porsche owners would envy you that $805 for the 100k service. (ducking and running for cover

jmonroe1 · May 2019

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?

Your damn right I would. I'd have all of it done. If you and others decline their offers to keep your car in good health and they go out of business, whose going to do your warranty recall work when that happens? I'll bet you never thought of that did you?

jmonroe

tjc78 · May 2019

I'd do the tune up and if the A/C check includes a condenser cleaning/freon top off I'd do that too. The rest... no, buy a bottle of fuel injector cleaner and dump it in the tank

28firefighter · May 2019

Agree with @tjc78. If the car running funny after a tune up and the AC check, you can take it to an independent shop to look at the throttle body. I suspects its fine, and if it isn't, its probably easy enough for you/your son to do yourself to clean it.

imidazol97 · May 2019

What's a "tune up"? That's the only one out of the group I'd want to know more about. Spark plugs at 100,000 miles is typical replacement, at least for GM.

Do the coils go bad on Fords? Do they check them or just replace?

Sounds like the salesman was trying to act like a service advisor.

The term "induction service" is nebulous. IS that an induction cleaning that's recommended for some direct injection models? Or is it just they take a look and run some Sea Foam into the intake air? Isn't "induction service" including the throttle body? Why a separate charge for throttle body cleaning?

The AC will drop in capability to cool on hottest days if it's low. Then you can pay $150 to have it recharged and checked for leaks. Most AC systems have been leak free for 10 years and more.

Find an honest independent garage by word-of-mouth.

ruking1 · May 2019

While I can’t see what is going on, it’s an interesting reminder time to keep the, a, your car CLEAN. Keeping the car clean really goes a long way in so called “preventative maintenance.“ it really starts with a clean (degreased, top to bottom ) engine bay. It can be done anywhere from once, twice, four, times a year.

Indeed 100,000, 200,000, 300,000, 400,000, 500,000 miles might be short changing the real potential?

https://youtu.be/lEGwpLpTkI4

houdini2 · May 2019

stickguy said:
I use it until it dies. Then but another basic one from Lowe’s.

But if you keep it that long don't you ruin the trade in value?

houdini2 · May 2019

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?

All that carbon build up may be the only thing holding the throttle body together.

houdini2 · May 2019

jmonroe1 said:

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?
Your damn right I would. I'd have all of it done. If you and others decline their offers to keep your car in good health and they go out of business, whose going to do your warranty recall work when that happens? I'll bet you never thought of that did you?

jmonroe

Are you kidding? New car dealers are like lawyers. There is no shortage. They make so much money they never quit.

ab348 · May 2019

On smoke detectors - 3 years ago when I had my electrical service upgraded, one of the things that had to be done was to install hard-wired smoke detectors, so they did, Kidde brand units. This past week one of them started chirping every minute or so. I did some reading and it turns out they have a battery backup. The factory battery was going bad so it needed replacing. I manage to get the thing off the ceiling and thankfully there is a quick-disconnect for the wiring. Turns out they use a 9V Eveready brand cheapo battery from the factory, not a Duracell or an Energizer long-life type. It now has a Duracell installed. Grrr.

stickguy · May 2019

They usually have a pop open drawer so don’t have to take them down. Odd.

ab348 · May 2019

stickguy said:
They usually have a pop open drawer so don’t have to take them down. Odd.

On these that battery cover is on the back. And it has a trick little lever that must be depressed when you put a new battery in or it won't close. Designed to prevent you from reinstalling it w/o a battery. PITA.

jipster · May 2019

Thanks for the comments everyone. To answer.... With the tune up, I think a friend would help me with that. It's just a pain taking off the upper intake. Someone with long boney fingers could probably replace the PCV valve if wanted to wait a bit. Coils usually aren't replaced, they are expensive. They are fine. And imidaz, I thought the induction service would include the throttle body cleaning as well, wasnt.going to do it, so didn't ask. Guess a chance for dealership to make more.profit.

Now, the car.doesn't have the greatest acceleration from a dead stop,.don't know if that is just how the engine is torqued, or maybe it is the carbon buildup. It's starts and.idles fine.I

Any thoughts on the PCM update? That.one and the a/c service recommendations kind of threw me off.

ab348 · May 2019

When I read that they offered a PCM update I did not assume it would make the car run any better. Is that what they said? It could just as easily go the VW TDI route and make it run worse in the name of emissions, etc. I would want to know what it is supposed to do for you first.

imidazol97 · May 2019

jipster said:
Thanks for the comments everyone. To answer.... With the tune up, I think a friend would help me with that. It's just a pain taking off the upper intake. Someone with long boney fingers could probably replace the PCV valve if wanted to wait a bit. Coils usually aren't replaced, they are expensive. They are fine. And imidaz, I thought the induction service would include the throttle body cleaning as well, wasnt.going to do it, so didn't ask. Guess a chance for dealership to make more.profit.

Now, the car.doesn't have the greatest acceleration from a dead stop,.don't know if that is just how the engine is torqued, or maybe it is the carbon buildup. It's starts and.idles fine.I

Any thoughts on the PCM update? That.one and the a/c service recommendations kind of threw me off.

A large bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner added every other tank for two tanks should give you all the fuel contact cleaning you'd need. Or SeaFoam, etc..

If your intake setup is one like the 3800 where it gets a back burp of oil vapor from the lower crankcase when the car is shut off and builds up "sludge" or "gel" as that vapor heads out through the throttle body, taking off the throttle body and physically cleaning it may help. But the only problem is ever found is that the sludge around the throttle body butterfly would drag on the butterfly after the car had cooled and the clearances had dropped. The first time the butterfly was opened it resisted then popped on through the sludge impeding its movement.

On my 3800, the throttle body could be cleaned without removing it. It had a honeycomb grid over the intake end held in by a snap ring.

Read up and see if others have had that kind of problem on your vehicle. Many do. You'd know it by now. It might affect the idle because the IAC (idle air controller) is set to assume some air bypassing the butterfly plate. Close the tolerances around the butterfly and the air is reduced, is the IAC has to compensate with a larger opening.

I just recalled, cleaning the IAC by removing it and clearing the passage and cleaning the end of the IAC was a part of freshening the throttle body on the 3800 by GM.

imidazol97 · May 2019

Hard to use gas can spouts were mentioned here. I came across a video about replacing with something from Tractor Supply that looks like a good replacement for some of the unusable EPA-mandated spouts.
(He's 1000 times better than Scotti at doing videos!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPOW0Rkchx8

ruking1 · May 2019

Ford transmission problems ? https://news.yahoo.com/lawsuit-ford-hid-focus-fiesta-114040994.html

venture · May 2019

imidazol97 said:
Hard to use gas can spouts were mentioned here. I came across a video about replacing with something from Tractor Supply that looks like a good replacement for some of the unusable EPA-mandated spouts.
(He's 1000 times better than Scotti at doing videos!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPOW0Rkchx8

Good to know Tractor Supply carries them. I got my last one from, I think, Amazon.

explorerx4 · May 2019

@jipster,
We had a couple of different Fords for over 12 years and just under 150k. Never touched the plugs or coils on either one. OK, they did lose some top end power, but both got their best lifetime fuel mileage, back to back tanks, around 110k.
You can unbolt the air box and look at the throttle body or maybe just remove the air filter to see if it looks like it needs a cleaning.

venture · May 2019

jipster said:

venture said:

snakeweasel said:
Well it didn't rain so I took my new mower out to finish the lawn. For a pull start mower it takes very little effort to get it going. Moves well over the lawn and mowing was effortless. Should have gotten a new one sooner.
I get a new mower every three or four years. I also have a Toro now with a Honda engine. It's the 2nd Toro in a row.
Why buy new every 3 or 4 years? I usually get at.least 10 years.out.of mine.

If I kept it any longer than that I would probably have to change the oil.

explorerx4 · May 2019

All my mowers are walk behinds. 85 Lawn Boy, 09 John Deere, 15 Black & Decker battery, 18 Honda.

berri · May 2019

@ab348
We had an issue with a relatively new Kidde smoke detector after changing the battery. We used a new Duracell, but it kept chirping. Electrician came (still under warranty) and turns out you really need to use either Kidde battery or the more expensive Duracell (Ultra? or some such), Seems to be fine now. That chirping can drive you up the wall.

explorerx4 · May 2019

@graphicguy,
Over the last few months, I replaced all my smoke detectors 20 years old, except one.
It kept whining, not chirping, for a while even I removed the battery.
Felt like it wanted to live, so I put a new battery in it and relocated it to the basement.
Couldn't an exact replacement for my old Firex detectors, but it turns out they got bought out by Kidde and they have an adapter to the old wiring.
Have an extra new one in sight of the one old one I kept and so far, I haven't had to install it.

They are all hard wired and connected.

oldfarmer50 · May 2019

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?

What needs “tuning up” on a modern car these days, plugs, wires, air cleaner? I’d have that done at 100k miles if no records to the contrary. How about fluids, particularly coolant? AC service sounds reasonable too. Low coolant level can make the compressor run longer which might wear it out sooner.

Induction—bottle of Techron and some full throttle fun.

MAF and throttle body—can of cleaner and a Scotty Kilmer video.

berri · May 2019

Re: Smoke detectors. if they are all wired in a system, you've also got to reset one of the primary units besides the auxiliary bedroom units to reset the system. Otherwise they start going nuts again. In our house, the primary Kidde units use 2 AA's, while the auxiliary ones use a 9V. Why can't they give you instructions upfront instead of having to learn by a bad experience ???

stickguy · May 2019

they don't really have wires now though. If the coils work, leave them alone. So, new plugs, and fluids and filters is about it.

tjc78 · May 2019

explorerx4 said:

@jipster, We had a couple of different Fords for over 12 years and just under 150k. Never touched the plugs or coils on either one. OK, they did lose some top end power, but both got their best lifetime fuel mileage, back to back tanks, around 110k. You can unbolt the air box and look at the throttle body or maybe just remove the air filter to see if it looks like it needs a cleaning.

My 04 Grand Marquis had a little over 100k on the factory plugs. Ran fine, not quite sure if I kept it I would have replaced the plugs until a coil went bad or I was getting a misfire.

oldfarmer50 · May 2019

jipster said:
Thanks for the comments everyone. To answer.... With the tune up, I think a friend would help me with that. It's just a pain taking off the upper intake. Someone with long boney fingers could probably replace the PCV valve if wanted to wait a bit. Coils usually aren't replaced, they are expensive. They are fine. And imidaz, I thought the induction service would include the throttle body cleaning as well, wasnt.going to do it, so didn't ask. Guess a chance for dealership to make more.profit.

Now, the car.doesn't have the greatest acceleration from a dead stop,.don't know if that is just how the engine is torqued, or maybe it is the carbon buildup. It's starts and.idles fine.I

Any thoughts on the PCM update? That.one and the a/c service recommendations kind of threw me off.

What could that do? Change shift points slightly? Recalibrate the fuel air mixture? Change timing? Could it be that Ford set the car up to meet fuel/emissions requirements that now years later no longer matter and they can offer to tune it for max performance?

ab348 · May 2019

The instructions on my Kidde don’t mention any particular brand or type of battery to use. But one thing I did find on YouTube by a helpful electrician who made a video about it was that even without a battery installed or being connected to line power, they still retain a charge in the circuit. You have to hold in the test button for 15 seconds to drain all the capacitors and reset the circuitry, then install the battery before reconnecting it. Don’t do that and it might still chirp away afterwards. This was not well-documented in the instructions.

oldfarmer50 · May 2019

ruking1 said:
Ford transmission problems ? https://news.yahoo.com/lawsuit-ford-hid-focus-fiesta-114040994.html

The choice to use a DCG in those cars is what doomed them in my opinion.

roadburner · May 2019

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?

Wow; I took the X1 in this week for the Takata recall; my dealer didn't upsell anything- although I went ahead and had an oil service performed because it would be due in about 1,000 miles and it would save us a trip.

The loaner X3 was nice- it is definitely more of an involving drive than its F25 predecessor. Unlike many contemporary BMWs, in base form it actually responds like a BMW without having to add the M Sport suspension or other enhancements.

Interestingly enough, it feels considerably quicker than the X1, but they both post 0-60 times in the low 6 second range- hardly a rocketship, but acceptable for a base model.The loaner had the full suite of Helen Keller "driving aids", but the only feature I'd actually want is PDC- BMW parlance for parking sensors. I also missed not having led headlights, comfort access, navigation and H-K sound.

That said, if I went with an X3, it would have to be an M40i. It's fast enough to keep me entertained, has a great ride handling balance, and a decent amount of usable space.

roadburner · May 2019

jipster said:
Thanks for the comments everyone. To answer.... With the tune up, I think a friend would help me with that. It's just a pain taking off the upper intake. Someone with long boney fingers could probably replace the PCV valve if wanted to wait a bit. Coils usually aren't replaced, they are expensive. They are fine. And imidaz, I thought the induction service would include the throttle body cleaning as well, wasnt.going to do it, so didn't ask. Guess a chance for dealership to make more.profit.

Now, the car.doesn't have the greatest acceleration from a dead stop,.don't know if that is just how the engine is torqued, or maybe it is the carbon buildup. It's starts and.idles fine.I

Any thoughts on the PCM update? That.one and the a/c service recommendations kind of threw me off.

I would not pay for a PCM update unless they can tell you what parameters are being modified. If The A/C is blowing cold I'd leave it alone. Aside from the plugs and PCV I'd say the rest of the recommendations are pure profit- because the SA is working on commission. I won't even ask what dealer you used, as virtually every Ford service department in the Louisville area seem to be totally incompetent on their best day. One reason my letting that nearly new 2015 Mustang GT get away awhile back was DEFINITELY a blessing in disguise.

stickguy · May 2019

I sat in the new style X3 last time I was at the dealer and really liked it. I'm sure I would enjoy driving it too. Will find out in a couple of years when we are shopping again! Nice size for us.

I still think it is crazy some of the stuff that BMW makes optional even on a car that starts in what, the mid-40's?

jipster · May 2019

ab348 said:
When I read that they offered a PCM update I did not assume it would make the car run any better. Is that what they said? It could just as easily go the VW TDI route and make it run worse in the name of emissions, etc. I would want to know what it is supposed to do for you first.

Service tech combined the Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update for a total of $189. I'm thinking the update is nothing more than running a.program.Yeah, service advisor said can make car run better. I've never heard of a PCM update being part of maintenance though. If updates are needed I'd think Ford should pay for it.They're the ones that screwed up.

jipster · May 2019

imidazol97 said:

jipster said:
Thanks for the comments everyone. To answer.... With the tune up, I think a friend would help me with that. It's just a pain taking off the upper intake. Someone with long boney fingers could probably replace the PCV valve if wanted to wait a bit. Coils usually aren't replaced, they are expensive. They are fine. And imidaz, I thought the induction service would include the throttle body cleaning as well, wasnt.going to do it, so didn't ask. Guess a chance for dealership to make more.profit.

Now, the car.doesn't have the greatest acceleration from a dead stop,.don't know if that is just how the engine is torqued, or maybe it is the carbon buildup. It's starts and.idles fine.I

Any thoughts on the PCM update? That.one and the a/c service recommendations kind of threw me off.
A large bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner added every other tank for two tanks should give you all the fuel contact cleaning you'd need. Or SeaFoam, etc..

If your intake setup is one like the 3800 where it gets a back burp of oil vapor from the lower crankcase when the car is shut off and builds up "sludge" or "gel" as that vapor heads out through the throttle body, taking off the throttle body and physically cleaning it may help. But the only problem is ever found is that the sludge around the throttle body butterfly would drag on the butterfly after the car had cooled and the clearances had dropped. The first time the butterfly was opened it resisted then popped on through the sludge impeding its movement.

On my 3800, the throttle body could be cleaned without removing it. It had a honeycomb grid over the intake end held in by a snap ring.

Read up and see if others have had that kind of problem on your vehicle. Many do. You'd know it by now. It might affect the idle because the IAC (idle air controller) is set to assume some air bypassing the butterfly plate. Close the tolerances around the butterfly and the air is reduced, is the IAC has to compensate with a larger opening.

I just recalled, cleaning the IAC by removing it and clearing the passage and cleaning the end of the IAC was a part of freshening the throttle body on the 3800 by GM.

My Buick Regal had the 3800. Remember it cut out at a light once. Took it to an independent, and a lot of carbon buildup. No symptoms till then. Techron sounds good. I'll do some YouTube researching.on that.Good thing is the Mercury Milan /Ford.Fusion is a popular car.

roadburner · May 2019

Software updates tend to be more useful for infotainment/telematics systems.

jipster · May 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?
What needs “tuning up” on a modern car these days, plugs, wires, air cleaner? I’d have that done at 100k miles if no records to the contrary. How about fluids, particularly coolant? AC service sounds reasonable too. Low coolant level can make the compressor run longer which might wear it out sooner.

Induction—bottle of Techron and some full throttle fun.

MAF and throttle body—can of cleaner and a Scotty Kilmer video.

explorerx4 said:
@jipster,
We had a couple of different Fords for over 12 years and just under 150k. Never touched the plugs or coils on either one. OK, they did lose some top end power, but both got their best lifetime fuel mileage, back to back tanks, around 110k.
You can unbolt the air box and look at the throttle body or maybe just remove the air filter to see if it looks like it needs a cleaning.

Will do. Not sure if my other Mercury (2008 Mariner) has ever had a tune up. It has 150k and runs fine.

oldfarmer50 · May 2019

roadburner said:

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?
Wow; I took the X1 in this week for the Takata recall; my dealer didn't upsell anything- although I went ahead and had an oil service performed because it would be due in about 1,000 miles and it would save us a trip.

The loaner X3 was nice- it is definitely more of an involving drive than its F25 predecessor. Unlike many contemporary BMWs, in base form it actually responds like a BMW without having to add the M Sport suspension or other enhancements.

Interestingly enough, it feels considerably quicker than the X1, but they both post 0-60 times in the low 6 second range- hardly a rocketship, but acceptable for a base model.The loaner had the full suite of Helen Keller "driving aids", but the only feature I'd actually want is PDC- BMW parlance for parking sensors. I also missed not having led headlights, comfort access, navigation and H-K sound.

That said, if I went with an X3, it would have to be an M40i. It's fast enough to keep me entertained, has a great ride handling balance, and a decent amount of usable space.

I did a short hop in an X3 today. Bigger than I remember and to keep up with your expectations I put the hammer down. Pretty zippy.

jipster · May 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

jipster said:
Had to turn in the Ford F150 rental early yesterday. The must have put my Mercury Milan air bag recall on high priority, as Enterprise was charging the dealership $74 a day for that truck. Would have liked to have kept it a couple more days. It sure beat that.little Nissan Versa we had a couple weeks ago.

When the service tech called to tell me my car was almost ready, he said the following is what my car "needed": Induction service $149, tune up $269, throttle body service $89, Mass Airflow cleaning and PCM update $189, A.C service $109.

Guy recommended A C service because if freon is low it can damage compressor. Said service would top off the freon level. He said there was a lot of carbon in the throttle body, I asked how he knew, he said he peeled something back?

Now, I would say at 100,000 miles it calls for a tune up. Runs fine though. Most everything else seems like dealer profit. What about the PCM update? I asked if Ford would pay for that, he said no. Guy said programming update could help car run better. Would you have any of that done?
What needs “tuning up” on a modern car these days, plugs, wires, air cleaner? I’d have that done at 100k miles if no records to the contrary. How about fluids, particularly coolant? AC service sounds reasonable too. Low coolant level can make the compressor run longer which might wear it out sooner.

Induction—bottle of Techron and some full throttle fun.

MAF and throttle body—can of cleaner and a Scotty Kilmer video.

I guess instead.of calling it a tune up, they should call it a spark plug replacement. I think they also replace the upper intake gaskets. That's it as far as I know.

Fluids? Coolant looks good. Transmission fluid looks a little dirty. That's a whole other can of worms. To flush or do a drain and fill?. The car has a bolt on the transmission pan, so a drain and fill would be easy. Brake fluid looked a little low. Goodyear Auto said brake pads were good and fluid may need to be bleed. REV UP THOSE ENGINES! LOL.

stickguy · May 2019

that is the problem with buying a well used car. at 100K, could be nearly perfect if gotten all the right maintenance (especially if over-maintained by an OCD original owner!) Or, could have gotten next to nothing besides some oil changes. So, if I am buying one like this, I budget some version of a "stage 0" servicing. So trans fluid (drain/fill), coolant, brake fluid all go. New serpentine belt. filters. Plugs if a service item. Might be some overkill, but at least you have peace of mind that it is good to go.

Sandman6472 · May 2019

And sometimes spending a bit extra is worth it, just for the peace of mind. Eventually, you could do some of the other things on that list, always a crap shoot when one buys used. Especially if one of your family is going to be using this vehicle. If just you, doing the important stuff now is good and if something happens down the line, you'll deal with it then.
An old co-worker had one of those and really liked it. Sure, he got it brand new as a lease, but all the same, he really liked it. It really is a good size to but hey, I like smaller vehicles.

jipster · May 2019

I texted the service advisor and asked.for more info on that PCM update and a/c service. I like to have things in writing. I've never really done independent shops, usually dealershio. So I'll ask for recommendations on my neighborhood HOA web site...for some.of those services.

snakeweasel · May 2019

Ouch! Gas prices are getting high again. $3.299 for regular and $3.999 for PUG around here, what about your area?

stickguy · May 2019

Was just in SC this week. Wednesday paid $2.49.9 Up here in NJ yesterday the cheapest by me was $2.69.9

jipster · May 2019

This is what service tech texted back. So, say the PCM update improves performance 1%....?? Dont know.

The pcm update is just that. We update the software level of the power train control module. It will change shift patterns, injection timing and other functions of computer control engine. It is no different than performing update on your phone or computer at home. The a/c seemed to cool fine to us as well. The a/c service is to prevent compressor damage. We top off freon and add a conditioning agent to system to add additional lubrication for compressor and clean vents and ducts. Like you do annually in your home hvac system. - to learn more about these repair(s). - Zachary

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