Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

28firefighter · June 2019

kyfdx said:
If he is getting the S4, skip the warranty, and pay as you go.
$22K for a six yr old S4? Yikes.

I would probably choose the S4, but I wouldn’t recommend it for someone else.

I didn't even start on the price or anything - I'm guessing 20-21 is probably what is reasonable, which still isn't cheap.

nyccarguy · June 2019

28firefighter said:
I have a friend that is shopping for a new ride - no really, for a change it isn't me. Euro obsessed though, like yours truly but doesn't have the itch to swap nearly as frequently. Wants a 4-door sedan.

Budget is about $30k but isn't particularly attached to new vs. used. I strongly suggested a new GLI given the value/$$ ratio plus the benefit of a nice long warranty. Drove a 35th Anniversary DSG and really liked it. Dealer quoted him 25,5 on an MSRP in the 28s + TTL. Then he made the mistake of also driving a 2013 Audi S4 DSG with about 70k miles from a private seller locally (asking $22k) - good shape, one owner, etc. That he loved, naturally.

SO - what would the sages here recommend? Buy the S4 and try to buy a fidelity or similar extended warranty and probably end up close to the price of the GLI or just take the performance cut and go new? Something else?

I think I'd probably be torn, too if I let myself drive both...as it is I haven't had anything but Turbo 4s for years so I don't really know what I'm missing.

The only way I would choose that Audi is if my spouse or sibling worked as a tech for the dealership

Michaell · June 2019

suydam said:
Well, you did pay — just in advance.

As we used to say in middle school - "no duh" :laughing:

Since I'm not making the payments, it was up to my daughter to structure the deal. I rode shotgun just to ensure nothing untoward happened in the F&I office.

For the most part, it's worked out well.

henryn · June 2019

Offhand, I knew nothing about a “2013 Audi S4 DSG”, so I went and looked it up.

https://www.edmunds.com/audi/s4/2013/

Its supercharged 3.0-liter V6 sends 333 horsepower to all four wheels, orchestrating a song of exhaust exclamations and plaintive tire degradation. With a sport-tuned suspension and stronger brakes, the S4 paints a perma-smile on the faces of all but the most Porsche-obsessed sports car fanatic.

In Edmunds testing, a manual-equipped S4 sprinted from zero to 60 in a quick 4.9 seconds.

Car and Driver says the 2019 Jetta GLI will do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. Hmmm…

I think the new GLI would have to be the logical choice. But if logic is not the real deciding point, rather driving excitement, then I would have to drive both before making a decision. And most of us are never going to get the chance to drive that S4 with the supercharged V6, so …

kyfdx · June 2019

I've driven an S4. That one, and also the previous model with the 4.2 V-8.

You won't mistake it for a GLI, I don't think.

28firefighter · June 2019

My Dad's S5 has the 4.2 V8. He said it feels like a firmly planted rocket. I'm not inclined to drive it for fear of it tainting me.

I never heard that problem with the Cayenne Turbo because that thing was fast in a terrifying kind of way.

stickguy · June 2019

no question, get the GLI. But spring a little extra and get the fancier model. Has the neat-O dash and some other stuff, for not that much extra scratch.

unless he is a serious gear head, willing to get hands dirty and wade through the swamp of indy repair shops, and especially if he isn't willing to cut bait and take a loss at any minute, hard, hard pass on that Audi. Going to eat him alive.

not sure what he has today, but standing alone, the GLI is likely to be a very satisfying car to own. And cheap to run with the 6 years of warranty. No muss, no fuss, no cost. Also might be slightly slower and FWD, but flip side, it has a lot more modern tech features (BLIS, BU camera, Car Play, etc.).

corvette · June 2019

fintail said:
CP on the Tesla Jalopnik, early model with lots 'o miles, kind of like the Jeep, spend more and get more.

Tesla: Low maintenance! Electric motors don't wear out like gas motors!
Also Tesla: [replaces electric motor before 98,000 miles]

pensfan83 · June 2019

That generation S4 is probably my favorite.

rayainsw · June 2019

"I'm not inclined to drive it for fear of it tainting me. "
Too late, for me.
- Ray
Ex-Corvette owner....

andres3 · June 2019

henryn said:
Crazy business about registering the battery on that Mini (nee BMW). Those connectors / software programs that you can use on your smartphone or notebook computer to deal with very specific car brands tend to be expensive. The one for Volkswagens (VAG-COM) runs around $250 to $300, and I’ll bet BMW is more expensive.

On the Wrangler, there is absolutely no way I would buy a used model. The prices are insane, just buy a new one. Very similar with a Tacoma, just buy a new one.

As for paying $165 an hour at the dealership, what can I say? If you did your homework, you knew what you were in for BEFORE you bought the car, yes? I may have told this story before, but everyone knows old codgers tend to repeat their stories, so …

A friend of mine, retired school principal from New Jersey, moved down here to Houston after retiring to be near her son. She owns a 3 series BMW, leased, tells me she isn’t worried about costs because “everything is included, maintenance, everything”. Being from New Jersey, she is not used to our torrential downpours and street flooding. Doesn’t take long for her to hit a big enough puddle to drown out that BMW.

No problem, “everything is covered”, she calls the dealer, they send a wrecker, and then present her with a $1,500 bill. I never saw the paperwork, and she couldn’t tell me what was on it, but she swore to me the water was not more than 6 inches deep (more like 3 inches), and definitely didn’t get inside the car or up over the engine other than splashing.

She is adamant that BMW should cover this under the warranty. “A BMW should be able to drive through a few inches of water, there was something wrong with the car.” I tell her no, water damage (even just a temporary stall) is not a warranty issue, it is an insurance issue, call your insurance company. Turns out she has a $1,000 deductible on her insurance. Oh, boy.

She apparently got one of those great lease deals on a BMW, as a few people on these forums have done, and assumed (incorrectly) that because she was under warranty she was immune to those $165 an hour labor rates.

Hmmm... I'd expect the car to be covered if I drove through 3" or 6" of water. However, women do have a tendency to confuse 3" with 6" or more. and vice versa.

andres3 · June 2019

28firefighter said:
I have a friend that is shopping for a new ride - no really, for a change it isn't me. Euro obsessed though, like yours truly but doesn't have the itch to swap nearly as frequently. Wants a 4-door sedan.

Budget is about $30k but isn't particularly attached to new vs. used. I strongly suggested a new GLI given the value/$$ ratio plus the benefit of a nice long warranty. Drove a 35th Anniversary DSG and really liked it. Dealer quoted him 25,5 on an MSRP in the 28s + TTL. Then he made the mistake of also driving a 2013 Audi S4 DSG with about 70k miles from a private seller locally (asking $22k) - good shape, one owner, etc. That he loved, naturally.

SO - what would the sages here recommend? Buy the S4 and try to buy a fidelity or similar extended warranty and probably end up close to the price of the GLI or just take the performance cut and go new? Something else?

I think I'd probably be torn, too if I let myself drive both...as it is I haven't had anything but Turbo 4s for years so I don't really know what I'm missing.

That generation S4 is becoming known as one of the reliable workhorses for Audi. The 3.0T (T for Supercharged) is pretty much a perfect engine, and is proving durable.

I wouldn't hesitate if in good condition with good records and no blemishes on the history (no accidents).

stickguy · June 2019

Andre, thought of you yesterday. I passed a gray TTRS on the highway. rare sighting.

fintail · June 2019

2013 ICE tech will seem vintage compared to 2019, if it matters to that shopper.

Funny that at least on paper, my heavy automatic E450 wagon is as fast as that S4.

nyccarguy · June 2019

fintail said:
2013 ICE tech will seem vintage compared to 2019, if it matters to that shopper.

Funny that at least on paper, my heavy automatic E450 wagon is as fast as that S4.

Someone I do business with just picked up a leftover 2018 E43 AMG.

28firefighter · June 2019

The Audi MMI tech remained largely unchanged until the A4 was redesigned in 2017. So it isn't as outdated as you'd think.

But, I made that same point and he said (and I quote) "who cares what the radio sounds like when you can listen to that engine." I think he's made his decision.

fintail · June 2019

I test drove one of those, kind of fun in Sport+ with the crackly exhaust. IIRC, they all have widescreen gauges, so they won't feel vintage inside. It was a demo with 3K on it, but the dealer was playing hardball with asking prices, and wanted more for it than the negotiated price on the wagon, with a similar MSRP, and would barely budge.

nyccarguy said:

Someone I do business with just picked up a leftover 2018 E43 AMG.

Michaell · June 2019

The battery in the Outback got replaced today.

Tried to start it this morning, to no avail. AAA to the rescue! This time, they dispatched a battery specialist who had new batteries on the truck.

Tested old battery - fail.

10 minutes to remove the old one, clean all the connectors and the battery tray, and install the new one. Tested at 740CCA.

Total cost? Less than $150.

In talking with him, found out that he and his father (who is 90!) restore vintage VW Beetles, and have a '29 Model A they use for parades and such.

So much better of an experience. Now I have to reset the clock and pull the car out of the garage so the nav can rediscover where we are.

andres3 · June 2019

fintail said:
2013 ICE tech will seem vintage compared to 2019, if it matters to that shopper.

Funny that at least on paper, my heavy automatic E450 wagon is as fast as that S4.

The DSG is faster than the 6-speed, but yeah, the S4 is no lightweight. It's a light heavyweight. Stage 1 takes it to 400 HP though.

ab348 · June 2019

Michaell said:
The battery in the Outback got replaced today.

Tried to start it this morning, to no avail. AAA to the rescue! This time, they dispatched a battery specialist who had new batteries on the truck.

Tested old battery - fail.

10 minutes to remove the old one, clean all the connectors and the battery tray, and install the new one. Tested at 740CCA.

Total cost? Less than $150.

In talking with him, found out that he and his father (who is 90!) restore vintage VW Beetles, and have a '29 Model A they use for parades and such.

So much better of an experience. Now I have to reset the clock and pull the car out of the garage so the nav can rediscover where we are.

Did you ask them what they do if a BMW owner calls with that problem? Do they have the ability to register the battery on those?

Michaell · June 2019

ab348 said:

Michaell said:
The battery in the Outback got replaced today.

Tried to start it this morning, to no avail. AAA to the rescue! This time, they dispatched a battery specialist who had new batteries on the truck.

Tested old battery - fail.

10 minutes to remove the old one, clean all the connectors and the battery tray, and install the new one. Tested at 740CCA.

Total cost? Less than $150.

In talking with him, found out that he and his father (who is 90!) restore vintage VW Beetles, and have a '29 Model A they use for parades and such.

So much better of an experience. Now I have to reset the clock and pull the car out of the garage so the nav can rediscover where we are.
Did you ask them what they do if a BMW owner calls with that problem? Do they have the ability to register the battery on those?

I did not ask him that. I got the impression that BMW and MINI owners were stuck.

mjfloyd1 · June 2019

Mercedes shop foreman said to call roadside assistance if you need a new battery. They only charge for the battery. No labor charge.

andres3 · June 2019

The Golf R costs someone about $300 less to insure per 6 months ($600/year) according to Geico vs. a TTS.

That's a '16 TTS vs. a '19 Golf....... They didn't have Golf R in their database...... GRRRRR.... nevermind.....

I'm sure they'd correct that within the 2nd renewal.

roadburner · June 2019

tjc78 said:
I have to agree.

Also, if you are into your BMW for the long haul how much does the tuner cost that will allow you to do it yourself?

I wonder if one of those smartphone apps can do it with an OBD2 Bluetooth dongle.

My Carly app can- and in under 5 minutes.

stickguy · June 2019

so the dealer totally ripped him off?

henryn · June 2019

stickguy said:
so the dealer totally ripped him off?

Well, he said they were charging 1.5 hours at $165 per hour, and his car was ready in 45 minutes, so ...

Draw your own conclusions.

PS: There's a reason they're called "stealerships".

28firefighter · June 2019

Most dealers charge, at least in my experience, based upon book time - that is, how long the mothership says a repair should take. In this case BMW says it’s a 1.5 hour job, so that’s what they charge.

graphicguy · June 2019

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

For a friend....2016 75th Anniversary Edition. Female driven, had since new. She had the flames added (as she said...”seemed like the thing to do at the time”).

56K miles. $28,500 OBO.
Are you looking for a value? What else can you tell me about it? Going by nothing else other than miles, it is way overpriced. That's fair retail for one with 20k miles. Try $26k and be prepared to take 24. And that's still retail, FYI, but I'm banking on the crazy Jeep fanatics.

She won’t be happy about it, but I’ll let her know. Agree with everyone about the flames. Her money....her Jeep. She can do what she wants.

It’s a 6 cyl....automatic. Power everything. That’s all I know....oh, 75th anniversary edition....whatever that is

graphicguy · June 2019

I had a 2013 S4. Great ride, for sure. Gonna cost him for repairs and maintenance......a LOT! If he’s OK with that, it’s a fun ride.

Personally? I’d do the new GLI with the warranty and all the modern goodies! He’ll be happier in the long run.

ab348 · June 2019

graphicguy said:
I had a 2013 S4. Great ride, for sure. Gonna cost him for repairs and maintenance......a LOT! If he’s OK with that, it’s a fun ride.

Personally? I’d do the new GLI with the warranty and all the modern goodies! He’ll be happier in the long run.

Don't I recall that the Audi ended up being a buyback after you had some issues with it?

stickguy · June 2019

that was his fleet of Cadillac's that all got bought back.

henryn · June 2019

28firefighter said:
Most dealers charge, at least in my experience, based upon book time - that is, how long the mothership says a repair should take. In this case BMW says it’s a 1.5 hour job, so that’s what they charge.

Yes, I know. And if it's under warranty (factory pays, not customer), then the hours paid are less -- considerably less.

28firefighter · June 2019

In other news that surprises no one, my friend is buying the S4.

tjc78 · June 2019

28firefighter said:

I’m other news that surprises no one, my friend is buying the S4.

May the force be with him.

henryn · June 2019

You're right, no one is surprised. I wish him luck, he's going to need it.

ab348 · June 2019

stickguy said:
that was his fleet of Cadillac's that all got bought back.

There were others too IIRC.

28firefighter · June 2019

Received notice today that Safeco is increasing our auto premiums from $2200/year for both cars and two drivers to - wait for it $4100/year.

Obviously going shopping.

Michaell · June 2019

Holy rate increase, Batman!

@jpp75 and I met up this morning at the local Cars & Coffee. Surprisingly light turnout for a nice June morning.

Highlights included a late 60’s Camaro Indy pace car, a couple of McLarens, and an ‘09 Pontiac G8, which was for sale for $21.5k.

Also saw a newer Audi RS3, with a DSG.

ab348 · June 2019

28firefighter said:
Received notice today that Safeco is increasing our auto premiums from $2200/year for both cars and two drivers to - wait for it $4100/year.

Obviously going shopping.

Gotta pay for those sweet stadium naming rights somehow!

28firefighter · June 2019

Getting some quotes. Looks like we’re going to move to Amica.

They came back with better coverage at $1800/year.

corvette · June 2019

Amica generally ranks as one of the better carriers. Their pricing was not better for me, though.

qbrozen · June 2019

28firefighter said:

Received notice today that Safeco is increasing our auto premiums from $2200/year for both cars and two drivers to - wait for it $4100/year. Obviously going shopping.

Did they find the body of the person you ran over?

henryn · June 2019

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

Received notice today that Safeco is increasing our auto premiums from $2200/year for both cars and two drivers to - wait for it $4100/year.

Obviously going shopping.

Did they find the body of the person you ran over?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-- end quoted material =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes, and what's worse, they found his cell phone, which was recording at the time ...

omarman · June 2019

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

Received notice today that Safeco is increasing our auto premiums from $2200/year for both cars and two drivers to - wait for it $4100/year.

Obviously going shopping.

Did they find the body of the person you ran over?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-- end quoted material =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes, and what's worse, they found his cell phone, which was recording at the time ...

fintail · June 2019

$4100?! Holy schnikes. I am just over $1800 for both cars, and the wagon isn't exactly a cheap car.

corvette · June 2019

@omarman - one of my favorite scenes from one of my favorite TV series. “Is there any way the package could survive?”

roadburner · June 2019

I'm at $5300 for six cars and a motorcycle- all with Progressive except for the Club Sport, which is with Hagerty.

andres3 · June 2019

At $4,100 year you can put it in your pocket, self-insure, not have a claim for 10 years, and go buy a brand new Golf R with the savings.

Michaell · June 2019

I'm right at $2000/yr for the Jetta and Outback.

ab348 · June 2019

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

Received notice today that Safeco is increasing our auto premiums from $2200/year for both cars and two drivers to - wait for it $4100/year.

Obviously going shopping.

Did they find the body of the person you ran over?

Perhaps some analyst looked at the file, saw both a Saab and an Alfa, and concluded it was a high-risk situation due to the decision-making by the owner.

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